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On February 17 2012 08:01 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 07:59 Tunkeg wrote:On February 17 2012 07:55 Jayjay54 wrote:On February 17 2012 07:51 Tunkeg wrote:
You guys who are still on the VE lynch, please come out and tell your reasons. I clearly see more of an upside to killing CW now. Scum team really have to put in some effort to get through me to kill penguin if we do. While I am pretty sure CW can ignore me. I love how you go from "Everybody voting Kurumi looks scum" to "Everybody not voting Kurumi looks scum" in under 25 minutes. I never said everybody voting Kurumi looks scum. I just said that 3 of the ones I had on my scumlist were voting Kurumi, which I can understand as you want to save VE. What is this btw? An effort to discredit my opinions, to put doubt in the rest that I am Solomon? Because you know the only way to do that is by someone CC'ing, and feel free to do, because that will seal their faith. And also JayJay I am not saying everyone not voting Kurumi looks scum. I am just saying I want to discuss it with them. My list of scum still stands.
no no not at all, you're confirmed town to me.
I just can't follow your logical steps. It's not as badly as RG, but you might slow down a little bit on the WIFOM. When you pointed out the "three on my scumlist" two already confirmed townies were on that vote. You fail to mention that, which is bad. You always need to see every angle of it. And you eventually did.
Also, I am curious what the fuck was I on your scumlist for? I actually highly doubt that I was, you never even mentioned me once the entire game until that post. Hopefully not only because of the BG thing (which would also be flawed logic).
Now you FOS everyone who votes the thing, you recently defended yourself?
You need to think things more through and not just jump to conclusions, imo. That is all. No accusations whatsoever.
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On February 17 2012 08:22 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 08:13 Jayjay54 wrote:On February 17 2012 08:01 Tunkeg wrote:On February 17 2012 07:59 Tunkeg wrote:On February 17 2012 07:55 Jayjay54 wrote:On February 17 2012 07:51 Tunkeg wrote:
You guys who are still on the VE lynch, please come out and tell your reasons. I clearly see more of an upside to killing CW now. Scum team really have to put in some effort to get through me to kill penguin if we do. While I am pretty sure CW can ignore me. I love how you go from "Everybody voting Kurumi looks scum" to "Everybody not voting Kurumi looks scum" in under 25 minutes. I never said everybody voting Kurumi looks scum. I just said that 3 of the ones I had on my scumlist were voting Kurumi, which I can understand as you want to save VE. What is this btw? An effort to discredit my opinions, to put doubt in the rest that I am Solomon? Because you know the only way to do that is by someone CC'ing, and feel free to do, because that will seal their faith. And also JayJay I am not saying everyone not voting Kurumi looks scum. I am just saying I want to discuss it with them. My list of scum still stands. no no not at all, you're confirmed town to me. I just can't follow your logical steps. It's not as badly as RG, but you might slow down a little bit on the WIFOM. When you pointed out the "three on my scumlist" two already confirmed townies were on that vote. You fail to mention that, which is bad. You always need to see every angle of it. And you eventually did. Also, I am curious what the fuck was I on your scumlist for? I actually highly doubt that I was, you never even mentioned me once the entire game until that post. Hopefully not only because of the BG thing (which would also be flawed logic). Now you FOS everyone who votes the thing, you recently defended yourself? You need to think things more through and not just jump to conclusions, imo. That is all. No accusations whatsoever. I have mentioned you as possible scum earlier as well: Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 22:23 Tunkeg wrote:On February 14 2012 22:14 Kurumi wrote:
Okay, who should die tonight? Chaoser? Someone else? Hiro, Razor, risk, jayjay all of those are pretty good vigshots tonight. It is an overall feel I got from you. I won't make a case on you yet, and maybe I don't do at all. But of the players left I see you as one of the 4 most scummy (but from the looks of it I have almost accused every single player in this game at one point, so lol). If you aren't I am sorry, I really hate being put as scum when I am not myself (as probably everyone saw earlier). Also, I won't call you scum no more today, I want Kurumi lynched, period.
yes, I even called you out on that. based on the palmar vote. hmm.
if you like, make a case. You'll see that I am actually doing a lot of pro town things. Also, see HOW people vote and why.
Whatever, we agree on today lynch  so let's leave it at that.
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On February 17 2012 08:41 RayzorFlash wrote:
Jayjay, i presented my case on you before... basicallg it seems like you almost overcompensated with your analysis posts to seem protown, while your actual votes havent been effective at all and actually seemed really random/scummy. Almost as though you were relying on built up towncred through analysis posts and coasting by unnoticed not actually voting/following through on your analysis...
And JayJay, i just put you there because I thought your vote for hiro yesterday was suspicious in that it was completely random and irrelevant to anything... There was no chance of hiro getting lynched whatsoever, nobody was going to get on him, and it seemed completely pointless to me, especially at the time when it came (only a few hours before the lynch). Its not a strong read at all, in fact its really REALLY weak, but its more than I have on a lot of people...
First of all that is not a "case". A case deals with more than just votes. They look at the story behind the votes. Second of all, I was asleep when everyone switched to chaoser, I would have probably chosen him before hiro, to make my vote matter. Not that it would have been a good vote...Well EU timezones. Also, you say hiro is 99.9% scum, how can you blame me for that vote you guys need to check your logic...
You also almost act as if I never said why I voted. I actually voted my strongest scumreads each day, rather then sheeping like some others do. If I don't agree with the mayor candidates, I'll just vote someone else and I will continue to do so. It's always easy to sheep into a vote and then say in hindsight "I was totally right" or "I failed".
My analysis post don't overcompensate, if you read them, they always indicate why I voted. I voted Sheth and actively pushed for it. D1 was a mess and we mislynched (my vote was wrong there as well). And I push for the pro town vote today. That's 2/4, better than toad with 0/3 . If you think I post too much analysis, well sorry.
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Hey guys, I have to drive from Munich to Cologne (even further) in 15 minutes. Traffic and weather is horrible, it will probably take me like 8 hours to get there. So I’ll probably won’t muster up the strength to read through the thread again tonight, I’ll be posting tomorrow.
GJ lynching CW, that was the right choice!
Two topics I want to address. A) Defending me, B) NKs
______________________________
Defending myself:
I don’t know why I am called scum that much. I contribute more than most in this game, my posts have a lot of content, I am vocal and I call things out when I see them.
Voting behavior: Yes, I couldn’t decide if Rad or Palmar was saying the truth. Rad gave a valid DT check and you guys act as if it was crystal clear. If I don’t like my obvious lynch choices, I go for my own scum reads, which was hero that day. Day 1, I didn’t like Sheth and CC either and went for Doc who even said himself that he acted scummy.
That is not a scum sign. If you want to, look up my votings in TL Mafia L. My vote for GGQ comes to mind when there was a huge bandwagon on KJ which I didn’t like at all. GGQ had no real chance to be lynched that day, yet, I went for him and I will continue to do so. Stray votes are not necessarily bad, unless you are convinced of something and don’t push for it.
Day 2, I was sure and pushed for Sheth actively and Day 4 I was sure too that CW is the right choice. I did not defend VE, I want him dead ASAP, but killing CW first was the right option to me
I am also fairly convinced that VE is scum and I push for it. So if you think I am not taking responsibility, please think again.
Moreover, I was the first one to actively defend Doc and Toad from that ridiculous check D2. I saw Toads role and immediately stated that his legit and Doc, too.
Taking responsibility, if you think is right….
Posting Style:
Not everyone likes my posting style and my reads. But I am vocal and contribute. More information are always better than less. I like putting reads out there just to get discussions going. I normally summarize my thoughts each day, trying to be as transparent as possible. IMO, that is good town play.
I’ll also continue to call everyone out who calls me scum and defend myself. If you think that is scummy, it isn’t. Again, for reference check my filter in L where I do as well, even against the most ridiculous accusations. Everyone who calls me scum usually gets an answer, no matter how scummy he is himself. More information > Less information.
If you have issues with my play, that’s fine. When I read rgs post, I always die a little inside. That doesn’t mean he’s scum yet. Same applies if I call you scum. Maybe you just look a little scummy, you should always ask yourself, if you do.
Alright, I guess that’s it for defense. Before you shoot me, look at my filter. Gut feeling alone is not enough. Every action and vote I take has a reasoning. I contribute and am transparent. If you think I analyze too much, chances are that you are in the wrong game.
References:
Note that this is my second game, I can only provide this, role: Medic
TL Mafia L Jayjay54 Filter
TL Mafia L Voting
_____________________________
NKs:
VE: He needs to die. I thought we agree on that. His defenses are terrible. The things, I defended him for at the beginning of the game are pretty much gone. The town VE I got to know in L was aggressive tunneling, both is lacking here. His analysis efforts are vanilla and don’t add anything IMO. He is scum and needs to die. Palmar, would you be so kind?
Shooting Rayzor is a terrible idea. He is in the Riddler game and there’s a good chance that he will die anyways (especially assuming palmar can’t die to it). This is not to say that he is town to me. But I just believe we would be risking wasting a KP.
Tyran seems like a reasonable choice. His random town reads on me and risk seemed like strange buddying. His efforts for a “base trade” weren’t town favored either. I’d hit him.
Hiro looks scummy as shit, but because nobody takes a stance for him ever, I can see him being bad town, too. Still a decent target.
RGs actions don’t make sense whatsoever. The accusations of risk, were just so random. He also blew risk’s cover. I don’t get why Kurumi tried to save his life that badly either, since the game wasn’t going any team’s way yet…There is something wrong here. A town player can’t make that many wrong decisions in a single game…
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woah, I was convinvced that VE is scum and I didn't count the possibility of him being a PR, but yet I am pleasently surprised that he actually was the GF. Nice. Just sucks that Palmar is gone now 
KThis should absolutely be winnable. P is down to 2. Riddler is still coming up (I reread he kills night 5, because he starts at day 2 and not day 1). Evantrees and Rayzor are in this. Then again, we don't know, if they are still in it. Hmm. tough choice. I'd go for evantrees, but am afraid to lynch a KP.
Also, to make it clear for once and for all, I did not claim anything. Claiming is fucking stupid and the NKs show why. Forumite obviously wasn't shot and Solomon double stacked, if you all just had shut your mouthes, tunkeg would be still alive, and we still had a dt. That was just not good. Whatever.
rayzor, you really don't like me, do you? it's not my fault that his defense sounded like mine and what I say is actually true. Maybe I inspired him. Why don't I get any credit for pushing 100% the right play with Kurumi first and then killing VE? My "votes" are now 3/5, that's pretty good IMO.
I don't know what to make out of RG. The kurumi save doesn't really make sense to me. If he is really scum the coaches treat him like shit and use him as the all purpose gambling chip which keeps him alive surprisingly long :D I am leaning town, he just did too much stuff.
Nearly all of his play were anti-town. nukes move to save himself was actually pretty good and rg just stepping up and destroying it was stupid as shit. The CC could be based on the unfitting lore of two face / freeze.
This is atually getting hard. Tyran was a safe bet IMO...[WIFOM] VE was pushing for hiro and JB. Certainly not both are scum both scum. JB was pushing for VE really hard and his case was OK, so maybe hiro is scum afterall? Maybe not. [/WIFOM] Evantrees reaction of being called scum a billion times was just to sit it out. While he was "rereading" he hasn't provide any analysis whatsoever in the last few days. I try to deduct the scum identities by ruling out town people, too, which brings me to:
Evantrees
Hiro Protagonist
RayzorFlash
So if put under a gun my scum would look like this now...I hope I am not terribly wrong about rg...
I want to see a little more discussion (about candidates and wether we should lynch people in the riddler game) before I vote...
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On February 18 2012 19:25 evantrees wrote:DAY 1 Lynch Vote list + Show Spoiler +Liquid`sheth - 7
hiroprotagonist
katina
Forumite
Palmar
radfield
Visceraeyes
tunkeg
Cyber_cheese - 12
Toadesstern
drH
slardar
ico/rayzorflash
tyrran
wbg
chaoser
liquid`sheth
jackal
opz
evantrees
billmurray
Kurumi – 1
Layabout
-_-quails – 2
rgtheschworz
kurumi
ico – 2
kitaman
adam4167
toadesstern – 2
Kenpachi
Risk.nuke
DrH – 2
Jayjay54
cyber_cheese
Chaoser – 1
Tobberoth
didn't vote
jaybrundage and someone else. Day 3 Lynch Vote list + Show Spoiler +
Radfield - 9
Forumite
tunkeg
Toadesstern
-_-quails
palmar
adam4167
katina
kurumi
jaybrundage
Palmar - 1
hiro protagonist
Forumite - 1
rgtheschworz
chaoser - 6
Risk.nuke
radfield
ico/rayzorflash
kitaman
evantrees
Visceraeyes
hiro protagonist - 1
jayjay54
ico/rayzorflash - 3
Layabout
Chaoser
tyrran - 1
billmurray
posting list evantrees? now? really?
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unknown mechanic? Riddler's role message:
With an obsessive-compulsive need for attention, Edward Nigma is determined to be the cleverest of Gotham City’s criminals, plotting elaborate trails of clues and riddles around his crimes. Batman has proved to be a worthy opponent and after thwarting the riddlers efforts on arkham island, he is back to prove himself the most intelligent. Beginning day 1 you must give the host 1 of 2 of the following options.
Give the names of 6 people. Over the course of 3 game days, these players are given riddles (you provide each).
On the first two nights the first person to correctly answer the riddle is safe from death and removed from the riddle game. On the last night the first two people to correctly answer the riddle are safe from the riddle game as well. The final two are killed.
Second option. Choose 8 people. Over the course of 4 game days these players are given riddles (you provide each). On the first three nights the first person to correctly answer the riddle is safe and removed from the riddle game. On the last night the first two people to correctly submit the answer are safe and the remaining three are killed.
Roleblocks do not stop your power, nor does you being eliminated. The game must go on.
we pretty much now everything about it. and if evantrees and rayzor seem scummy to you (which they do to me too), evantrees should be the one you lynch. I don't want to lynch anyone who is bound to die to riddles anyways. Same applies to JB.
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On February 19 2012 11:03 Adam4167 wrote:
JayJay54
-He has posts in his filter emphasising how new he is.1
-His flipflopping on Sheth D1 was quite bad. First he's '75% agreed scum', then he's 'unconvinced' by the cases put forward, then he cant read him at all.2
-He tries to get Palmar hanged. A running theme for our scums.3
-His filter is filled with 'RAAAR IM AN ANGRY MAN', which is similar to gonzaw in Newbie Mini Mafia II4
-He calls Hiro scum over a dozen times before finally voting him on D3, even after classing him as his highest scumread on both D1 and D2.5
-His voting pattern indicates he always avoids the main lynches, except the sheth one, but the whole town was on that.6
1 No, I don't. The only post, where I mention that this is my second game is where I provide my previous game. I never apologize for being new player. Not a single time....Can you point out posts?
2 No I don't. In the very post where I agree 75% that Sheth is scum, I already mention that I can't read him. I also make a huge case on Doc and vote him. This is selective reading you do.
3 I still think that hanging palmar wouldn't have been a bad play. He killed VE and left. Joker would probably killed the same and would drawn a scum KP.
4 No. Not true. I never OMGUS. I defend myself against every case by choice. But I am not angry and never react angry. Can you point out posts?
5 I make a freaking huge case D1 on Doc here. That's why I voted him D1. He was my biggest scumread that day. D2 we had a red check and I immediatly pushed for the Sheth lynch then. Sorry I didn't vote hiro then. Where do I point out that he's my biggest scumread? I voted my biggest scum reads.
6 I already made a post on that. I don't vote the "main lynches", when I am not convinced. I could't read Sheth D1 as I mentioned, so I voted my biggest scumread / case Doc. I was unsure about Rad/Palmar, so I voted my biggest scumread. But again, selective reading. I was one of the first to fight for the Sheth lynch D2 (no-brainer, but people started to stray), I pushed for Kurumi / VE, too, which was 100% the right play. Why do I not get credit for that, scum KP is reduced from 4 to 2, because of my EXACT suggestion.
what is interesting in this case is that some point are just plain out wrong. Some posts you point out, you take out of context and pick the passages fitting your case. The way you construct your case is different from rayzor's and tunkeg's way...Not good, I thought of you as 100% protown, I will revaluate now...
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On February 19 2012 19:48 Forumite wrote:
Jayjay54, what´s your opinion on the rest of Adam4167's list? Of the three on that list you are the one that I´m most unsure about, so I´d love to hear your opinions and reads.
adam's case against me confused me a little. the way he constructed it and stated things plain out wrong, will have me going through his posts again...
Yet, I believe adam's town for now and agree with both other cases.
evantrees didn't do shit and the only reason he got off many lists, is because he basically disappeared.
hiro was scummy to me all game, but the thing that his lynch has basically no opposition bothers me.
the third on my list is rayzor.
rg looks bad too. but claimed...
here is a post where I elaborate my reads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850¤tpage=188#3754
who do you want to see dead, my dearest vig friend
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You were really selective and especially the "75% sheth" post explains my D1 actions completely which you just choose to ignore. You read that post, it was not about the filter size...
I am unsure day 3 and 1 yes. D3 are claiemd DT with a red check was hang, how can you NOT be unsure? D1 we mislynched...
How is it that you cross of katina and JB for the Radfield lynch and you ignore completely that I've been pushing the Kill of VE ever since nuke was confirmed? If you assume I was bussing the GF, why can' the others bus Rad.I like katina's few posts and her reads are correct. JB pushed hard for VEs death. Still, both are far from confirmed to me.
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Finally a double claim.
hmm. actually there might be a missing KP.
Over a century ago, murderer Cyrus Gold sought to escape justice by hiding in the Slaughter Swamp, where he met a fate worse than death. Mysterious forces doomed the now immortal Grundy to and endless cycle of death and rebirth. Robbed of his memories he has adopted the name of a nursery rhyme.
“Solomon Grundy, Born on a Monday, Christened on Tuesday, Married on Wednesday, Took ill on Thursday, Grew worse on Friday, Died on Saturday, Buried on Sunday. This is the end of Solomon Grundy”
You are the bodyguard of penguin and protect him should he be hit from an attack. You are also extremely strong. You have the option of two powers. Bulletproof for a night or revenge killer(you kill the first person who attacks you in a night). Once your power has been expended (you have been hit on any given night after choosing which power to use) you are powerless and can die to a regular hit on any subsequent nights. Much like the rhyme your name comes from, if you survive a full seven days after your first hit, your powers refresh.
He certainly wasn't bulletproof. So revenge killer was probably active...
That would mean that palmar targeted someone else. But that doesn't really make sense does it?
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From playstyle alone, I had said that JB is town and evantrees is scum. JB pushed really hard for the VE lynch/ kill.
Then again, this KP thing involves so many question marks. VE would have been killed by grundy and palmar target somebody else. I don't see how this makes any sense...Also, if you are scum, why don't you just CC and don't mention a hit.../WIFOM. The whole situation is really strange...
either way somebody has to die tonight.
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On February 20 2012 06:13 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 06:09 Jayjay54 wrote:Finally a double claim. hmm. actually there might be a missing KP. Over a century ago, murderer Cyrus Gold sought to escape justice by hiding in the Slaughter Swamp, where he met a fate worse than death. Mysterious forces doomed the now immortal Grundy to and endless cycle of death and rebirth. Robbed of his memories he has adopted the name of a nursery rhyme.
“Solomon Grundy, Born on a Monday, Christened on Tuesday, Married on Wednesday, Took ill on Thursday, Grew worse on Friday, Died on Saturday, Buried on Sunday. This is the end of Solomon Grundy”
You are the bodyguard of penguin and protect him should he be hit from an attack. You are also extremely strong. You have the option of two powers. Bulletproof for a night or revenge killer(you kill the first person who attacks you in a night). Once your power has been expended (you have been hit on any given night after choosing which power to use) you are powerless and can die to a regular hit on any subsequent nights. Much like the rhyme your name comes from, if you survive a full seven days after your first hit, your powers refresh. He certainly wasn't bulletproof. So revenge killer was probably active... That would mean that palmar targeted someone else. But that doesn't really make sense does it? I just went through Turkegs filter, and there is no mention of which option he took... gonna look much more closely for a breadcrumb... brb
well he wasn't bulletproof was he? If he was shot already, scum wouldn't need to doublestack.
This lynch is really important...we need to think this through carefully...
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wow this really messes up my town / scum view...
but I can't see any sensible explaination for this KP. the good news is, forumite will have a fine target, if this a mislynch...
##vote jaybrunage
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On February 20 2012 06:37 hiro protagonist wrote:
JayJay, in 13 minutes and 2 post you go from calling JB town to voting for him...
and in between that, you mention we need to think this lynch through carefully...
Its just... try and not contradict yourself so much ok? makes it easier to read you ^__^
I said, he is town from the posts. He also CCed and accounted a non existent KP. I tried to find an explaination for that, couldn't find one => probably scumslip.
I don't see how I am contradicting myself?
I think everybody had evantrees posts as a lot more scummy than JB...
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On February 20 2012 06:48 jaybrundage wrote:
Its not a question about whether or not there was KP for the shot
I was shot. If it was scum or a vig i dont know. But i do know i got shot.
Is anyone claiming the shot? It could of been Palmar. But i doubt it i think he went after VE.
Why would i claim i got hit last night if i hadn't got hit. It doesn't make any sense.
I don't know why you would, it is probably an error on your side. And it makes your claim pretty hard to believe...
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if solomon killed VE and palmar shot JB instead of VE....then it would work out...
but palmar said a billion times how he would shoot VE
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hiro will not look good, if JB flips scum...
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On February 20 2012 07:12 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +Over a century ago, murderer Cyrus Gold sought to escape justice by hiding in the Slaughter Swamp, where he met a fate worse than death. Mysterious forces doomed the now immortal Grundy to and endless cycle of death and rebirth. Robbed of his memories he has adopted the name of a nursery rhyme.
“Solomon Grundy, Born on a Monday, Christened on Tuesday, Married on Wednesday, Took ill on Thursday, Grew worse on Friday, Died on Saturday, Buried on Sunday. This is the end of Solomon Grundy”
You are the bodyguard of penguin and protect him should he be hit from an attack. You are also extremely strong. You have the option of two powers. Bulletproof for a night or revenge killer(you kill the first person who attacks you in a night). Once your power has been expended (you have been hit on any given night after choosing which power to use) you are powerless and can die to a regular hit on any subsequent nights. Much like the rhyme your name comes from, if you survive a full seven days after your first hit, your powers refresh. Could I get confirmation that if option 2 was chosen, then He would only have 1 life?
even IF that's the case, how would scum know?
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On February 20 2012 07:18 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 07:13 Jayjay54 wrote:On February 20 2012 07:12 hiro protagonist wrote:Over a century ago, murderer Cyrus Gold sought to escape justice by hiding in the Slaughter Swamp, where he met a fate worse than death. Mysterious forces doomed the now immortal Grundy to and endless cycle of death and rebirth. Robbed of his memories he has adopted the name of a nursery rhyme.
“Solomon Grundy, Born on a Monday, Christened on Tuesday, Married on Wednesday, Took ill on Thursday, Grew worse on Friday, Died on Saturday, Buried on Sunday. This is the end of Solomon Grundy”
You are the bodyguard of penguin and protect him should he be hit from an attack. You are also extremely strong. You have the option of two powers. Bulletproof for a night or revenge killer(you kill the first person who attacks you in a night). Once your power has been expended (you have been hit on any given night after choosing which power to use) you are powerless and can die to a regular hit on any subsequent nights. Much like the rhyme your name comes from, if you survive a full seven days after your first hit, your powers refresh. Could I get confirmation that if option 2 was chosen, then He would only have 1 life? even IF that's the case, how would scum know? They did not know, but that does not me its not a possibility right?
if they want to kill a vet and don't know about that, they'd doublestack. If they doublestack, no KP is unaccounted.
The ONLY way he tells the truth is that Palmar shot him instead of VE, I find that rather unlikely...
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EPT
