EPTMr. Wiggles Mini Mafia I
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
Without these policy lynches, mafia can get out in too many situations. Also, I've never played with any of you guys, so if you guys could link me to any games you guys played recently, that would be nice. I'm a bit too lazy to look stuff up right now. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
Strict rules on Lynch all Liars is key because it really does cause confusion as well as give mafia a way out- ie "oh I lied about being medic because i wanted mafia to shoot me" when in reality, he/she wanted to get medic to softclaim or even counterclaim Strict rules on Lynch all Lurkers is key because it also gives mafia a way out- ie "Oh sorry, I was busy- what's going on again? I really want to contribute!"- taking the noob/lurker approach of being mafia | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
On December 23 2011 17:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Lynching lurkers day 1 always results in hitting a townie, and people aren't really as divided on who to lynch as they could be, so there is less information to be gained from a lurker mislynch. It just doesn't make sense on Day 1. Let's deal with that problem when/if it comes up later. Lynch all Liars is actually extremely mafia friendly. Contrary to popular belief, they don't need to lie. It means they can push townies much easier. (I was mafia in Steamship. Poor Chaoser.) That is not to say that lying is ok, quite the opposite, but it should be a factor, not the leading cause. Let's avoid policy lynches, it's too easy to end the discussion once a lynch candidate has been found, and if that person was up there because of policy, discussion is essentially minimalized. Other things we should probably discuss- Pressure voting: Pressure is fine, pressure voting doesn't accomplish much, and only serves to start a bandwagon that shouldn't exist until a proper case is formed. Voting should be reserved for people you explicitly believe to be scum. Pressure somebody, and then if they don't respond correctly, use that as part of the reasoning to throw your vote on them. Tunnelling: I believe it to do more harm than good in many occasions, but it can be useful in getting scum-slips out of tunnelled scum. As long as the person is aware that they are tunnelling, and is willing to stop doing it to weigh in on other lynch candidates, it's fine. Veterans: We should make people stand purely on the effort they put into this game. Taking a veteran meta into account only seems to have promoted sheeping in recent games. Lynching lurkers may usually hit a townie, but it does a number of crucial things 1) Gives incentive for greens to participate 2a) Pressures mafia to post more 2b) Mafia posts more = More likely to make mistakes 2c) Mafia lurking is a normal strategy for a lot of players Lynch all Liars is not mafia friendly. Fine, mafia don't need to lie to win, but they can (and they will if we eventually do a massclaim). Also, town doesn't need to lie either. Look at the tradeoffs: mafia MAY hit incorrectly, causes town to become confused, mafia also has incentive to lie. If people are allowed to lie, mafia has so many more strategies. Pressure voting I like, but its up to the player. ofc you vote for someone you think is scum, not town. Bandwagons give a lot of information. Tunnelling is up to the player. It's not usually effective unless you are skilled at it though from my experience. Veterans, we don't have I'm pretty sure. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
1) If the mafia lies or lurks and we don't have policy lynch, mafia can weedle out of his/her situation 2) Discussion on whether or not someone is townlurking/townlying or scumlurking/scumlying is useless. This kind of discussion doesn't generate anything but confusion. 3) No discussion on easy lynches allows for more discussion/focus on more important issues, like scumhunting. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
##Vote: jaybrundage Although early, not saying anything really in his two posts. Also seems to want to jump on the easy bandwagon. Compared to his posts in Student Mafia, pretty similar style. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
I've read Ver's analysis on Mafia XXX multiple times, and I know the way I was thinking when I was mafia. The first post is the only thing I read that is preemptive defense. 1) It's not even preemptive defense- all it is is saying lurking is natural 2) It's not the only post- nothing after that post seems the way I would play at all as scum. Just seems like a frustrated townie to me. 3) Similar to 2, his play is anti-town, but I highly doubt he's scum (for example, voting for yourself is anti-town, but difficult for scum to do; or leaving the game- thats anti-town, but something I would not expect scum to do). It's almost like he's not trying to be careful of what he's doing (besides the editing I guess) I'll let seph defend himself though. On jay, let's just say its a gut read, and I'm feeling very good about it. I do only have 4 posts to work with right now. We can look at them though. Post 1 "Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency." This is pretty much the discussion between the Lynch all Lurkers policy lynch. However, framing it so that one side = scum is really not logical. Otherwise, jay is saying that GygaS and Cyber_Cheese are scum as well. "I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest." The "to be honest" part is something minor, but I don't like it. It's like saying, "I'm scum but even to me its really weird." "Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that." This isn't going anywhere, and there's no point to it. It's just saying, placeholder vote could be scum or town. "Honestly you seem to want to be voting for the way your acting. Post a solid reason why we should not vote for you. Defend your self give people another case on someone you think is scummy. Something" A fake attempt to generate more discussion when in reality, doesn't do anything. Post 2 "Plz address these concerns." Same as before. "If your town tell use everything you know so that we have tools to get scum." Basically, bluefishing. Post 3 Compare this line: "Hm I find it interesting that you choice to vote for me." with one of his Student Mafia post ("But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia.") Surprisingly similar. Also similar: same post from above- "And if you want to make a case on me go for it." and another post from Student Mafia ("I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.") "So far you posted everything about policy lynches which is a great discussion starter. You have to move on sooner or later. You then vote for me with practically nothing. You claim i haven't contributed but all you talked about was policy lynches." Attacking me as defense, basically saying "Misder isn't qualified to attack me because he only talked about policy lynches". We can compare this to him and Adam and xtfffc in Student Mafia, although in that case, he did attack Adam first. Yet another post in Student Mafia ("If you wanna call me me scummy come out and say it im done with people soft claiming someones scum with out a real reason behind it. I honestly think that bullshit like that is not going to help the town.") Although there is one good thing for him- he's not trying to act noobish like he did in the beginning of Student Mafia. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
Post 4 "T_T it wasn't a sheep vote this guys scummy as hell." It pretty much was sheep- same analysis as others, though I actually don't mind that as much as the last part because my impression before was that he was not 100% certain that seph is scum, but now it's like "there's no way I'm not voting seph anymore". | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
Between jay and seph, I would rather have seph in the game. seph posted a case and is willing to do work as whatever he is. This means he's useful. jay on the other hand, really did jump on the bandwagon for no good reason (double standard and multiple null tells that he frames as scum tells, actually like Cheese's case on jay), spend all of his posts when he was attacked, defending himself. We can focus on couple things on the jay case. 1) The double standard I actually didn't point this out because I didn't see it, but it's a good point. We look at seph, and we see that he states that Lynch all Lurkers policy lynch is bad because narrow focus too much and real life. When I read the "the least because at times I am one", I read it as flavor text. However, jay decides to say that "Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town." a) that isn't what seph said and b) jay did the same thing as seph, "Sorry for not being to active. Internet is a commodity not always provided at my families house". Flavor text. 2) His tell on seph's selfvote Reread what he says on this point. "I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest. You know people think your suspicious if not just plain scum. Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that." jay defends his point by saying its a distraction which is a scum tell, but a) in 3 lines, all he is saying is that selfvoting could be town or scum action, which is a null tell, not a scumtell b) many actions can be bot town or scum action- that doesn't mean confusion 3) His tell on seph not wanting to play He says that "He then states at this point he would rather not play the game. He doesn't want to play the game because hes mafia that got caught day one. Kinda sucks but pretty good for town dont ya think." a) he only looks at it from seph being scum b) Cyber makes a good point that townies may react the same way c) go back to 2, jay never mentions that this action is a "distraction" but it's essentially the same thing as 2, an action that both town or scum could do And no, I will not say if I think seph is blue or not. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
Anyways, ##Vote: jaybrundage I'm still going to vote him because I think my gut read is correct. I was going to wait til he posted something, but meh. I think GiygaS is town. I think Adam is scum (though might be me being paranoid). I can see a hyshes scum. Everyone else is null. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
Not caught up on the thread since yesterday's lynch. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
| ||
| ||
