EPTHAHA JUST KIDDING I LOVE THAT KID.
Responsibility Mafia!
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HAHA JUST KIDDING I LOVE THAT KID. | ||
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On December 20 2011 11:38 Chezinu wrote: One Letter... Two Families.. An innocent man and a princess between them all... Can the rival families come together for the love sake of two members? Or will there be a great separation.. Will you be able to uncover this mystery? Already did. You're less cryptic than usual. | ||
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No shit. Not only is the concept of the game surrounding the idea that poor play will be punished, but there's also the notion that we've got relatively few players. in the game. 5 to 15 or so. This means that best case scenario, we can win day 5 through lynches alone, but that's a rather long timeframe to close out a game. So poor play seems to be some form of game accelerant, and the 'poorer' the play, the less in our favor it seems to be. So! What do we do? Post with content and condense your points. Keep your short posts to yourself and clump them up to make substantive comments. I'd say that posts between 6 and 15 lines are large enough to be substantive, but short enough to be read. But that shit is obvious. There's a bigger question here, however, which is what we're going to do with the first vote. RNG is probably the worst possible idea; gives us next to zero information regarding how people argue and its practically an excuse for people to not post anything because there's no element of responsibility attached to it. Either way, we're going to want ideas down on the table asap. And not like dicks, either. Cut it out bum/prplhz. | ||
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On December 20 2011 18:35 Palmar wrote: There's plenty of things that can be prodded already in the thread. Like what, exactly? Also, please don't post one liners. They inflate the thread size and make it tedious to read through content later. RE: RNG RNG doesn't force people to make a move one way or another and provides less information regarding people's inclinations than having someone pick a metric for a day 1 play to be made. The "shoot the inactive" metric was the standard when games were substantially larger, people talked less, and the metric itself was generally not held onto, just used as a prod to get people talking. As far as I'm concerned, RNG just cedes the first day's information content unless someone with a particularly interesting role gets selected. Please tell me how a random target provides more information than one who we can pick? It seems like by definition that RNG eliminates at least one layer of information: the choice. And there's no real benefit to the tradeoff in terms of preventing someone from hiding their kill attempt: If someone wants to get someone in particular put under the gun, they can fake a RNG call to make them the presumed target. If there's anything pro-town about the RNG plan its that it removes any fear to assigning a presumption of lynch to start discussion off. I don't see why there isn't a better metric to use than 'none' for that purpose. And even then, it doesn't seem like the attempt actually fostered the discussion you're saying it would, but maybe that's because the current RNG specified target hasn't been around in the thread. Either way, it seems like an empty placeholder topic. The previous placeholder topic, inactivity, served a practical purpose. I fail to see what reliable benefit comes from this one. So, the obvious question becomes which metric SHOULD we use. This is the question that RNG ends up proposing because it runs on the assumption that a) A lynch is better than no-lynch (I agree, in general) and b) that discussion surrounding the RNG could lead to a better target. I agree with a), but think that b) implies that we focus ourselves on determining a characteristic which outperforms RNG. This is why I think the plan is stupid; because IT ISN'T ONE. I'm super exhausted, but I'll think up some criteria for a day 1 lynch tomorrow. RE: The hydra I have no idea what/who this is, but I think I happened across it twice reading the thread. Is this someone's nickname? I haven't kept up with the last few (months of) games, so hook a brother up. RE: Me Sleep time. Peace! RE: Post formatting This is a very handy format and will make it easier to zip through pages to find discussions on a certain topic. Feel free to use it. Not sure how well it'll work when quoted, though. | ||
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On December 21 2011 02:00 LSB wrote: So you are saying we should all role claim right now? You realize you *kinda* already did with your previous post, right? Again.... what's up with you and triggers.... Just because someone has a trigger doesn't mean they are mafia. That section in particular makes a statement about triggers, and in particular says that town has triggers in an affirmative manner. You state this directly. The odd thing is that your post is structured to make it look like speculation, but you made an affirmative statement. This wasn't "Its possible that town has triggers too" it was "town has triggers too". The reason why I said *kinda* is that Chez said (and I haven't gone to the OP post yet to confirm) that mafia know some of the town roles. If that's the case, they might also know about some town conditional roles and be able to claim that they exist with certainty. So you're either mafia or you have a triggered role. And onto different matters: RE: Hindered comment from BumatLarge Yep. That's a good way of putting it. I haven't played in a shitton of time and I have no idea who most of the players are or if they'd benefit from extensive day 1 analysis. I also don't know if any of these triggers would be set off by some kind of explaining, or how the day 1 meta works anymore. Given all those things I figured it would be smarter to start off slow. So, if you push my accelerant idea, it would mean that at least some of the triggers activate powers that kill people. That doesn't, however, mean that there isn't the possibility for other triggered abilities. That should be pretty obvious. This was also an implicit roleclaim on my part which should only have been obvious to people with triggers themselves. But then you asked me to push more on the point, and stated that you were sad that I hadn't. This leads me to believe that you also have a triggered role and all of the above was obvious to you, but that my explanation might activate your trigger, or that you wanted a claim out of me. And that's berry interesting because asides from chez claiming traitor, it seems like all the people who have put information about their role into the game implicitly or explicitly thusfar have triggers to their role. This means we're going to hit a situation wherein we're going to have fucking ugly dt and medic claims with triggers and shit to sort through. FUCK. | ||
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Foolishness made the safest possible accusation to get heat off himself because he was explicitly called out and knows I've never died day 1 (except maybe WaW?), and Palmar dodged my request for him to make a comment on making a better day 1 metric than RNG and hasn't contributed anything besides saying that RNG is good (which it isn't). Wouldn't be surprised if one is riding off the other's stupidity to crumb something for later or set up a trigger condition. | ||
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On December 21 2011 12:39 prplhz wrote: @VisceraEyes Uh, that might have come out wrong, I don't really condone voting for either Foolishness or Palmar right now. So why are you voting for Foolishness? I don't get why you think L has contributed a ton. His first post was generic advice. His second post didn't follow this generic advice, instead he rambles on about RNG for ages, concluding that it is bad even though it has evidently spurred discussion. His third post, he concludes that LSB is either red or blue then just leaves it there. In the second part of his post he displays excellent logic I think, but then he kinda outs bumatlarge as blue. Why would a town aligned player ever give his blue reads like this? @LSB You want lynch between Liquid`Sheth, VisceraEyes and me? Can you list the vets who get to freeload day1 if they want to? RE: My Blue Read. Why would I ever give a blue read like that? Because there are 6 people in this game that I consider substantially better than me at reading roles (its really never been my strong point), and given that 25% of the game or more is anti-town, the probability of anti-town having 1 or 2 of those people is excessively high. I suppose a better question would be "why would I be putting a blue player up on the 'medics please protect this guy' list and implicitly telling the rest to shut up about their roles for now", and I'm pretty sure you can answer that one on your own. As an aside, I think that your characterization of my posts is intentionally misleading. Please do not play broken telephone and parrot other people's points. If you have specific issues, go back to the source material and address them. Its very, very easy for someone to parrot and claim that the town had consensus by slightly shifting descriptors over a few pages. List of people that I think are better than me at reading roles for future reference: 1. Foolishness 4. kitaman27 6. SamuelLJackson 13. Chezinu 16. BloodyC0bbler 17. LSB Wrote this a while back and forgot to press send. Some of the more recent posts are interesting, but I've gotta get back to writing my term paper. | ||
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I've already thought it up. | ||
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On December 21 2011 17:15 chaoser wrote: What is it? RE: Metric I was hoping to be able to say it when I woke up, but the thread's been confirming how I thought the game would roll out since I went to sleep, so I want the trap to sit out there a bit more. Give it another hour and a bit. | ||
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Well, enough time's passed and the thread's still slow. You'll notice in my previous post that I spelled out 'crumb' with the first letters in my first line next to a comment about the thread speed because the speed of the thread is very telling. No doubt there are a bunch of people who are in finals (like me!) and no doubt there are a bunch of people who are busy doing Christmas shopping. And yet its still oddly quiet. So lets talk about why: Triggers. If this game does have an accelerant, which it seems overwhelmingly likely that it does, then some triggers toggle kill powers. Given the theme of the game, it seems as if this mechanism is a core defining feature of the format, which means that there are likely more than the standard 1-2 vig hits available. Since there's going to be lots of discussion about this, I'm going to refer to mafia kills as 'hits', lynches as lynches and vig kill abilities as 'shots'. If this is the case, then people have a substantial reason to feel terrified; the WaW games as well as bang bang mafia show that when there are a lot of people with guns, games become very mafia favored as townies shoot each other to death repeatedly and mafia wait out the bullet storm. Because of the relative slow speed of DT checks and other forms of solid evidence, there's reduced risk to attracting lynch attention compared to attracting crazed shooters. Given my previous note that all players who have made implicit roleclaims have done so via triggers, and due to the fact that Ace and Ver are behind this setup, there are probably more guns lying around than less. If that's the case, then everyone is going to be playing tight lipped, but in different ways. Trigger hitters are going to be attempting to bait other people into satisfying their hit requirements. Medics and DTs are going to be doing their best to avoid any form of negative rivalries. Greens are probably going to be the most outspoken townies insofar as role is divorced from personality, and reds are going to be exaggerated versions of the Medic/DT reticence to engage because their biggest fear is being shot, not being lynched. Mafia have 5 players including the traitor. Assuming they have 2 kp (which makes sense for a game of this size), they win assuming they evade being lynched on day 4 (D1:15:5, N1:14:5, D2:12:5, N2:11:5, D3  :5,N3:8:5,D4:6:5 lylo) Assuming mafia shoot the traitor or that we hang 1 mafia we end with D4:7:4, N4:6:4, D5:4:4, which means that we're still lylo on DAY FOUR even if we correctly lynch on day 3. Day 4 lylo assumes medics don't prot a target (they rarely do) and that we don't hit 2 correct lynches in a row. Day 1 has something silly like a 98% town lynch rate, which means that to lose because of lynches mafia needs to get caught on both days 2 and 3 which is absurd because its a joke to set up false leads off a planned day 2 lynch. Hence why we probably have a bunch of guns and why they're afraid of bullets and not rope. So, from the get go I'd eliminate most of the players who have been voting for others, those who are aggressively asking questions of others as potential targets for the day 1 lynch. Additionally, I'd put more suspicion on players who are overly apologetic at this stage in the game. That said, i wouldn't link suspicion to post count or length directly because there's an impetus from everyone to minimize their exposure to triggers. That said, voting is less of a town-tell than aggravating people; voting is important insofar as it establishes a rivalry. Ironically, while I'm writing this up, we get a sizable dollop of the 'make no waves' theory in the form of Liquid Sheth's most recent post with overt apology and an overwhelmingly conciliatory attitude. I'm somewhat more conflicted with respect to Palmar because he fit this profile to a T prior to me going to sleep last night, then he started contributing. I'm not sure if that's because people started singling him out as a bullshit one-line poster and actually voting for him on that basis, but if the above is correct he'd probably not have been willing to engage VE for that long as mafia, and consequently VE is probably town because he pushed through an overt warning of Palmar's regarding him becoming annoying and kept on him to the point of voting for him. VE is essentially the green/bluest person in the town in my eyes at the moment because of this. I'll go through the entire list of players and separate the players into groups based upon whether or not they're being evasive, but not right now. I have 4k words to write and I have 26 hours to do it, so I'm outta here for at least an hour and bit. Deal with it.gif RE: Hydra Query Short answer: I read a few of your older games while I was still actively following certain games and I did a quick search through your histories after someone explained what the fuck a hydra was to see how you had performed recently. Wasn't very extensive, though. Just was doing a relative power level check for the game's unknowns because I had been told that we'd have a bunch of good players, then I end up not knowing half of the people in here. | ||
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(Day 1 15 : 5, Night 1 14 : 5, Day 2 12 : 5, Night 2 11 : 5, Day 3 9 : 5, Night 3 8 : 5 Day 4 6 : 5 lylo) Assuming mafia shoot the traitor or that we hang 1 mafia we end with Day 4 7 : 4, Night 4 6 : 4, Day 5 4 : 4. The take home message is that this game blows chunks for us from a strict lynch-to-win perspective. | ||
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On December 22 2011 03:44 Palmar wrote: Just because I hate shit like that L I've played 25 games I think now on this site, 10 of those had mafia lynched on day one. That's 60% chance of a town lynch on day one, not 98%. That's entirely not the case in my experience, nor is it the case on mafiascum. Mafiascum has roughly an 80% VT D1 lynch rate, a 10% Goon D1 lynch rate, and a 10%blue lynch rate. Oddly enough, the prevalence of D1 goon lynches is often a planned gambit to protect the roleblocker and end the game that way. Given the 13/3 setup, given a random distribution of hits you'd assume that mafia would be killed approximately 20% of the time on day 1. That isn't the case. Mafia have easy outs on D1 which means barring any catastrophic play, their deaths are planned if they occur on D1. I actually just looked at your post history ordered by threads and checked your last 7-8 games back until couples therapy. A single game had a mafia D1 lynched. Mafia used it as a gambit in a small format. Which means either you're lying, or the 17-18 games before that had a 60% mafia D1 lynch rate despite your games fitting perfectly into the standard MS pattern of play. As far as D1 lynches go, I'm pretty down with going after a confirmed liar. ##Vote: Palmar But seriously, I need to go do work. Later. | ||
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Can you do me a favor and unjargon the names on that list? Because I've run through a number of games that you've been in like Election Mafia (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720) that I can't see on your list. The games I saw by searching for your thread posts are the following: Election Mafia TL Mafia XLVIII Student Mafia (New/Newish players welcome) TL Mafia XLVII Mini Mafia X Steamship Liquidia (TL Mafia 46) Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy I saw Dethy too, but it hasn't started? So, of the most recent games you've been a part of, as a frequent commentator, a member of a hydra, a host or otherwise, 6 town first lynches, 1 mafia first lynch. Yet here you are arguing that me essentially repeating your own recent experience is a reason to sling shit at me. I have no idea if what's in your profile is true, but given Election Mafia, I know that your list isn't complete. I also know that it ignores a bunch of other games that you've been involved with. Can't find out why there would be motivation for calling you on a blatant contradiction which falls squarely into my 'throw shit as quietly as possible' objective for mafia in my analysis? Its all right there: You start with a post about post quality. You then post one liners. You attack me for making a post partially about post quality. You attempt to play nice with your most ardent accuser for hours. You post content mostly when attacked. Your play is very dissimilar to your standard town play. Your first sustained conviction (if that's what this turns out to be) is as a chainsaw defense. And that's pretty much it. All of the above list can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Palmar&gb=forum&d=create The seven point list can be very easily verfied using Palmar's filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384&user=87086 In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia. No, I said I'm conflicted, which means there's doubt about you. Why? Because the metric says you're pretty town-like, but only kinda. You were aggressive, yes, but not to the point of creating rivalries. You started off with a whole host of shit flinging early game, which is standard for mafia; accuse lots of people early, jump back to that suspicion later as needed. You did so in a manner in which the accusations were relatively low in threat level. You kept your posts short, posted with very little explanation to open yourself up for critique and largely ignored calls for more elaborate posts until you were specifically attacked by VE who made it pretty clear that you were rival material. But then like I said there are some substantive, constructive posts, like the one that Foolishness just mentioned, which edge into territory which mafia would not waltz into. Some of the vote was an attempt to prod you into taking an action. For starters, you only really post substantive content when you're threatened. The chainsaw defense made you look REALLY scum, but the talk with Foolishness makes you look pretty townie. If you believe that I've baited you into a response, you probably also think that I can shoot you during the night, which means that you'd NEED to kill me today if I had a triggered vig hit. If you were a mafia member, you'd probably also have someone else push this train forwards because most people in north america should be available to post right now. I think you're either mafia, a hatter or a DT looking to attract protection. Alternatively you've got some kind of cross vote trigger and you're a vig. | ||
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If I'm wrong or right doesn't however actually matter to the game at hand. If I said "Town always lynches mafia on day 1" I'm obviously lying, but that doesn't make me scum, and L knows this. Now, I happened to be telling the truth this time, as I proved, but really, that's irrelevant. RE: Irrelevance. It isn't irrelevant. Assume day 2 rolls around and you state "town always lynches mafia on day 1" in support of re-lynching after day 1 passed with a no-lynch verdict, when the reality is that town very RARELY lynches mafia on day 1. Does that statement seem just as innocuous now if the context implies that you're serious and have a motive behind the statement? No. This has been pretty much your only argument thusfar against me and it conceeds the point that there was a lie. So what's the motive and context behind this statement? I posted a large piece of analysis and you replied with a dismissive chaff post with a lie inside of it. The motive was to discredit my statement while not opening yourself to critique. The context is a slow thread and a near-bottom page position. If that's the case then Syllogism or Mr. Wiggles would be likely mafia buddies; post burying is a pretty standard way to avoid a piece of analysis which fucks your team without drawing attention to it. The alternative is that you're horrendous at this game and make anti-town posts, but are somehow lucky that this game's prevalence of pew pew pistols makes anti-town play somewhat less terrible on an individual level. (odd, that) | ||
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On December 22 2011 05:53 kitaman27 wrote: lol what you are you two even arguing about? How is the percentage of games that scum get lynched day one even relevant? Who cares what the percentages are on MS or how the last 20 games have gone? Even if it was really poor odds, you still try to find scum regardless. L, your Metric post is nice and all, but who exactly did you catch? It's not a very good trap if you don't mention anyone that has fallen for it. Foolishness, you seem more than willing to call certain people town, but who is scum? It's a lot easier to defend people, than to attack them. Sorry, got caught up with Palmar. Here's the list: 1. Foolishness -- Actively Hiding, but he's stuck his neck out a few times. Not sure yet. 2. RebirthOfLeGenD -- Quiet 3 .wherebugsgo -- Aggressive and Questioning. 4. kitaman27 -- Aggressive post analysis, but I'm not sure how long you had that liquid sheth picture around. Undecided. 5. syllogism -- Actively Hiding. Leaning towards red. 6. SamuelLJackson (sandroba/curu hybrid) -- I have no idea how to read hydra posts, but he has content posts + early vote. Greenish as far as I can tell. 7. Jackal58 -- Very short posts but lots of questions. Probably trigger hitter. 8. Liquid`Sheth -- BLARING WARNING SIGNS. 9. GMarshal -- Not enough information. Starts off quiet, moves to medium content posts. Early vote. Goes quiet again. Seems like a busy townie. 10. L -- This is me. I am super cool. 11. Mr. Wiggles -- Huge content filled posts. Aggressive voting after building a case. Lots of questions. Probably a trigger hitter. 12. Palmar -- Should be obvious that I am leaning towards mafia on this one. 13. Chezinu -- Proposes a HYPER aggressive roleclaim early, but no one bit. I assume he's town but maybe 20% potential for traitor based on the risk involved. 14. chaoser -- Lots of questions. Large analysis posts. Aggressive early vote on me. Probably another trigger hitter. 15. bumatlarge -- Huge content filled posts designed to spur discussion and an early vote. Very town. 16. BloodyC0bbler -- Not enough posts. I'd really prefer that he posted more and he's one of the reasons I waited. 17. LSB -- Probably the toughest call in the game asides from Palmar. His posts appear large but they're short replies to large quoted text. Additionally, he's been called out before for 'trying really hard to not piss people off' which is a warning light in metric land. He does, however, vote early, but his case isn't very strong. I lean red on him. 18. GGQ -- One substantive post. Same as BC. 19. prplhz -- Short avoidant posts early. RNGs, votes Viscera. Also has a very solid attack post on GMarshal. Aggressiveness indicates town. Post structure indicates busy. 20. VisceraEyes -- Super town. I wanted to put filter links on the names, but I have no idea how to do that quickly. Also not putting additional information regarding roles other than trigger hitters, because DANG BRO, THATS NOT HELPFUL. Also, everyone that's blue isn't blue because they're legit; its possible mafia has trigger hitters. Anyways, go through the list and see what you think. Anyways, I'm now at 22 hours left for 4k words in my term essay, so I will be taking off at the speed of light (meowth, that's right). I'll pop in in a few hours to see what's up, but other than that I can't spare much more time today. | ||
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Just finished my term paper. Will be catching up with current events when my body recovers. Which will be after 5 showers, dinner, some freshly brewed tea and a rousing bout of intercourse with a model from Holland. Cheerio chaps. | ||
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Alright, just got back from hours of crazy monkeysex. The night so far's been a gigantic, terrible cesspool as far as discussion quality goes. This is important: Compare page 35, a typical night page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384¤tpage=35 With Page 17, a typical day page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384¤tpage=17 I'm going to go back and write up a list of who pushed for who from day 1, because if night 1 is any indication, there's going to be a flood of shitty one liner posts and we're not going to be getting anywhere otherwise. RE: Daypost Just refreshed Oh, I was right about Palmar? Figures. Good lord I'm good at this game. Some notes: GM seems to have lied about his target in order to lessen the chance that his shot would be medic'd/intercepted/roleblocked/whatevered. His target was probably one of his greens to throw off suspicion, so he probably didn't shoot Jackal. Palmar's shot was claimed. This means GM either shot VisceraEyes or SamuelLJackson I'm gonna go back and look through his post list to see if he gave any indication of suspicion with respect to either of them. | ||
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I'm gonna go back and look through his post list to see if he gave any indication of suspicion with respect to either of them. RE: GM target. 5 people died. 1 was claimed to be a hit. 1 was GM. 3 remain. GM lied about RoL who he had listed as red, which means he didn't actually think RoL was red. The reds in GM's list are likely chaff. The remaining 3 are Jackal - Black Hydra - Green Visc - Green Since the list seems to have been cover for his shot due to the lie it would seem that he'd cloak his shot in green. This leaves Hydra and Visc. Anti-Hydra posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12841577 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12841591 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12844245 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12859517 Abrupt about face: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12859529 Single post besides his end game list involving Visc: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12862029 Only it isn't involving Visc. It's just a reply to a prod from Visc. GM indicates in his last post that his push against hydra was a fake: As much as my subconscious would like to believe he is mafia, the fact that my lolworthy argument about hydras got something like 4 votes on him, combined with his generally town seeming behavior This leads me to believe that he shot Visc for calling him out. | ||
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On December 23 2011 14:39 kitaman27 wrote: If that was the case, why in the world would GM not inform us who he really shot after the 12:00 deadline? He had around 20 minutes to share who he really would have shot, during a time which the scum team wouldn't be able to change their actions. Are you purposely trying to shift focus away from RoL or something? @RoL,did you receive any notification of receiving a hit? Why wouldn't he? Withholding the information until the last second is a hyper pro-town move. Mafia don't need any additional information and his list is perfectly legible when you recognize that he lied about the RoL shot. I mean, this isn't 100% certain, but if RoL WAS shot by GM, then it means that either: 1) GM lied about his role as a blue in a fucked up counter-roleclaim day 1. No. 2) GM was shot by someone. RoL was protected. That protection came up within that same 12:00 deadline that you're claiming makes the play odd strange. Alternatively a medic took a random 1 in 18 guess beforehand. 3) GM was roleblocked and shot by mafia. RoL is mafia. Someone else is missing a vig hit claim or mafia have 4(?) night hits. Note how each of these scenarios is bullshit. 4 mafia night kp is fucking broken as fuck. Even if you assume an SK AND that Palmar had a hit, the numbers are ridiculous. 2 mislynches and a single missed vig hit end the game under that meta, nevermind the TWO self-explosive vigs that we've encountered thusfar. Ver and Ace aren't THAT bad at balancing. | ||
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On December 23 2011 14:56 chaoser wrote: I don't understand. GM specifically said he shot RoL at exactly: There is no reason for him to lie at all. Why do you think he misrepresented his hit L? RE: Misrepresentation. Because he likely assumed that mafia would wait for his post because he called it out earlier. This forces any roleblock decision they have to the last minute, literally, of play. Also, see my other post. The hits don't add up unless people are withholding information regarding their shots. My analysis will change substantially if other people step up and claim they've hit people. Until that point you have a choice between: 1) He lied. and 2) World's most ridiculous chain of events occurred/Game is broken/He lied about something else. | ||
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On December 22 2011 11:47 GMarshal wrote: Lies! Do you know how I know you are lying? I have that same role. Its not called Overly Righteous Viglante, its called Justice vigilante. I took the precaution of crumbing it earlier with the picture + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.hitechcj.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jpg_law_justice_003.jpg) which is the first result you get when searching "justice". Therefore you are lying scum. ##Unvote ##Vote: LSB RE: GM's role This is the quote wherein the claims are made about GM's role are made. I see nothing about his shot not going through and both his and LSB's imply that he takes his life out of a need for justice AFTER he has committed murder. By contrast, if GM is honest about his shot choice and he DOES pick a mafia, he has the potential to have his shot protected by a doc, his powers blocked, or something else. The only question here would be why would GM call that he's going to call his shot, and you'll find that the answer to that is trivial. | ||
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On December 23 2011 15:07 kitaman27 wrote: That doesn't make sense at all. GM knows he is a suicide vig, so why would he leave it a mystery to who he really shot? He knows that it is highly likely that he will die if his shot is wrong. He wouldn't leave us in the dark knowing that he would likely never have a chance to reveal his true target. That wouldn't be a hyper pro-town move in the slightest. RE: Leaving us in the dark. He didn't. Please read and account for the hits before you wander off into magical fairy land. Account for every single one. Why did people die? Who killed them? What are people likely to be lying about? Why? Its something like 95% certain he shot Visc, 4% potential he shot hydra, maybe 1% that he shot Jackal. | ||
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Alright, here's a challenge to people who think GM did NOT lie about who he shot. Give me a good explanation why every person who died, died. Do not bother trying to nitpick anything I've said until that point, otherwise it'll be pretty obvious that you're scum trying to muddy the waters because my analysis tells us WHO they shot, which allows us to go find out WHY. I'll be waiting. Annnnnd Go! | ||
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Just to make your life harder, I just remembered this post: On December 22 2011 11:49 LSB wrote: Because Ver would defiantly put a duplicate of the same role in a game.... Wana test? I'll shoot you tonight if you wish, if you're town, we both die, if your mafia, you're probably too scared to face my shot A shot on a townie kills both. You're claiming have mafia with 3 kp, still don't know why Jackal died and now can't explain why RoL isn't dead. Try again. | ||
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On December 23 2011 15:42 chaoser wrote: Ok, you bring up a good point. I'll have to retread the whole claiming part of day 1 tomorrow but I still don't understand why gm would feel the need to lie at midnight, when all the actions have been set in stone and a lie would just confuse the town instead of being clean and simple. I feel like a more valid reason for the kills would be that a bus driver bussed his kill but that's also just speculation. RE: Bus driver Bus driver's possible, but the end result with respect to who mafia killed doesn't change, so it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not he lied, only whether or not he shot Visc. If anyone bussed Visc/RoL they're either delusional or mafia, which means mafia has a bus driver. Which means this game is fucking broken. We can't call shots to confirm anyone. Roles like GM and LSB's can be rerouted with mafia knowledge of who's innocent to change a shot against mafia to a double townie kill. The only way of obtaining proper information about a shooter would be to have at least 3 people shoot during a night. But that's kinda beyond the fact. A driver is an assured +3 for mafia with a single night action. I hope you recognize that even hatters typically don't have that much firepower (3 bomb hatters are a +2 swing and take the entire game to set up). The only night action I've seen do more than a 3 kill swing for a team was the Murrayitis plague, but there were at least five plague related roles acting across 3-4(5?) days in the game that had to engineer the beautiful destruction that we set up for that one. RE: RoL I'm not claiming EITHER lied about their role. If LSB's role wasn't the same as GM's GM wouldn't have had a need to continue pushing him and would have said "oh shit, we DONT have the same role". But that's not the case. Nothing in ANY of LSBs or GMs post indicate that their vig shots do not work vs townies, with LSB basing his plea on the very fact that it does. GM replied to this very point without commenting on it. RE: GGQ So, you have VE shooting GM, who would die or confirm himself as green during the night. No. You also have 3 mafia KP per day which leads to LyLo on day 2 with a single missed justice vig. Double No. | ||
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On December 23 2011 16:59 GGQ wrote: typo by me, I have 2 mafia KP just like you (hydra and jackal). I just have VE shooting GM instead of GM shooting VE (both die either way). Also GM would not have been confirmed if he was roleblocked, which I believe he was and which I think was fairly predictable if a roleblocker exists. VE may have been trying to avoid GM claiming roleblock and town wondering whether to believe him or lynch him. Most importantly, what is your explanation for why GM would lie about his shot target AFTER the deadline? In that case your analysis is completely irrelevant. The determination of who shot who is to find out which hits were controlled by mafia to determine WHY they shot who they shot. As for assuming GM needed to be roleblocked, then shot by someone who had zero incentive to do so, cool beans, that's retarded. Why would GM lie? Because hosts do not instantly conjure up day posts, and the day transition time is ALWAYS delayed if certain roles hold their abilities to the last minute. Hosts additionally need to PM people with information regarding their night action prior to the start of day. Like, has no one run a game before or played careful attention to one? How is this news to people? The fact that so many people who should know better jumped on this assumption is SUPER sketchy, but I'm not done looking through past games to see posting times yet. | ||
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On December 24 2011 01:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I don't like what you are doing. Its blatant fear mongering with insane theorizing behind this games set up. We can assume the mafia probably has a RB, and probably a GF, at most I'd give them one more power role which would probably be a medic which would encourage the idea of responsibility by allowing the mafia to punish the town trying to coordinate publicly. A bus driver makes the game crazy on so many levels while serving the same effect that a medic would by allowing them to disrupt hits, but would do it in a much more destructive manner. You go even farther to say that there must be a bus driver and this game is fucked. Stop talking about crazy shit and be productive, I will just kill you if I see you fear mongering and not being productive one more time, its scummy as shit L and its not going to fly. RE: You RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying. I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful. Seriously, what the shit. | ||
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On December 24 2011 09:25 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Why are you even talking about it then? No one mentioned it to begin with, the way you were wording it was strange and I see what you meant but why are you even analyzing what the fuck could of happened so hard? You are talking about elaborate scenarios that have no relevance. RE: Irrelevance No, see, they do have relevance because they constitute the biggest piece of evidence that we've got: Figuring out who the mafia killed and why. I think mafia killed Hydra/Jackal. I think that hydra can largely be explained based on his stature as a dangerous townie. I think Jackal cannot be. If that's the case, then something in Jackal's posting history made him a lynch target. Which means that he probably indicated that he was suspicious of a mafia member. But going through Jackal's post history to try and find something important becomes kinda irrelevant if the reason why his death is evidence would be constestable. So no, Foolishness and RoL. Its not irrelevant. I've asked for someone to come up with a better explanation regarding what happened. None have surfaced. So granted that there's no better explanation for what happened during the night, I'm going to start looking through Jackal's history. There's another issue here with respect to Chez and the RB: given my analysis he's probably not lying which makes me think he's green. | ||
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On December 24 2011 12:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So L, you have a lot to say about trying to figure out who killed who, and how the night actions went down. Do you have anything to say about who you want to lynch, today? RE: Lynch choice. I don't have one quite yet because the day's going super slow and my suspicions aren't confirmed. But GGQ is the only person who Jackal's filter throws suspicion onto but I haven't had time to look through his posts properly yet. Also seems conflicting that his analysis, if I recall correctly, said that jackal was mafia killed. He wouldn't want to give that answer if that's why mafia hit jackal. So I'm kinda looking through posts atm to see if anything else pops up. | ||
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On December 25 2011 13:46 Ver wrote: Yeah I know. I'm almost tempted to extend day another 24 hours as this is ridiculous. Please do. Everyone's obviously experiencing some serious turkey coma. | ||
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Sorry, my Christmas plans multiplied pretty quickly because one side of my family had a second celebration on the 26th due to scheduling conflicts with other chunks of the family from which I just got home from. If I had to push for someone yesterday I'd have gone after GGQ. I was pretty certain with my assessment, but I hadn't put together enough time to outline the full case on him. RE: BC The recent few posts by BC have been oddly worded, but only if you don't bother reading the first day of the game. He is talking about the breadcrumbing that I (and one other) did early on in the thread. I fully agree with his statement (maybe not to the same extent that he put it), but every claimed role thusfar has been a form of conditional or weakened vig. This also fits with my initial prediction that the concept of responsibility will be a game accellerant. RE: Night Either way, we might lose tonight if more guns go off in the wrong direction. We've got four options: 1) Power play: We draw up hit targets and have people volunteer to hit if they can w/ accompanying roleclaims. 2) Hit discuss: We discuss hit targets and let people decide of their own choice if they wish to act on it. 3) Silence + NA: We refuse to talk about potential hits in order to neuter any potential RB action, then hit targets as per private tendencies 4) No night actions: We do any of the above, but hold off on shooting people tonight. But to be honest we don't have very much time to deliberate over these options. The more pressing matter is who should we shoot and why. I personally don't think BC should be shot, but my gut is telling me that GGQ, Kitaman and Foolishness are probably our best choices for the night. GGQ's posting contents look scummy on their own, and Jackal, an otherwise unimpressive kill target, points towards him. Kitaman asks a LOT of questions but offers very little content of his own. His posts seem careful and guarded, careful to prod, but not make opponents. Foolishness took day 2 off after a standard non-existent day 1; very atypical play given he normally springs into action D2, but hey, I was afk for the majority of D2 as well. But see, here's my problem, the main criteria for catching mafia if I'm right about this format being hit driven is activity. Given that we just had ZERO activity out of anyone, I'm kinda up shit's creek about how to understand what happened. I'm going to go reread day 1, because the past 15 pages of the thread are trash. | ||
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Here are the people left alive: 2. RebirthOfLeGenD 4. kitaman27 5. syllogism 8. Liquid`Sheth 10. L 13. Chezinu 15. bumatlarge 19. prplhz Out of these 8, we only have 5 townies and 3 mafia left. When picking a target, even randomly, there's a 40% chance or so that you hit mafia. People are inactive, so we need to get the vote train, or at least a solid discussion train, out of the station asap. RoL is by far the best candidate for a lynch today. Here is his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384&user=41447 The second day is the real kicker. RoL pushes for a lynch on BC, then crumbs that he's a veteran because his absurd claim to being shot is proven to be impossible without a mafia medic protecting him, or chez lying about being roleblocked. RoL, however, jumped on the "I'm confirmed innocent due to GM dying" idea almost immediately, though, without attempting to understand how or why he didn't die. Put simply, either he or Chez is mafia. But we don't even need to check that out, because RoL has admitted that he's a liar here: On December 27 2011 15:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: LSB didn't hit me, Gmarshal did. They could feasibly have different roles, GM never said to the contrary. Here RoL doesn't say that he might have been shot, but that he was hit. If that's the case, then he was protected and RoL, contrary to his statement earlier: On December 23 2011 14:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I never received any notification. Wouldn't have known one way or another if he was indeed shot. But if the shots don't add up, RoL needs to explain it away. Lets see how he does that: On December 26 2011 15:36 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Why did it take so long, and that is your only reason for shooting him? The mafia would either have to not RB anyone, RB people they are killing if GM was scum and wanted to do that or he would be counterclaimed instantly and die. You aren't stupid, how long could he keep an "I got RBed" charade up? Not long if at all. Even if the mafia did the RB + hit on people I doubt Veterans are effected in this set up because I don't think Ver has ever done that, and a medic could still save a target they RB + hit. Would a RB negate Veteran status if veterans hypothetically existed in this set up? You had to have another reason to hit GM, and for what reason could you only hit GM? He softclaims Veteran and surmises that there might be medics in-game. Not a single person who has claimed has indicated that a hit was blocked on them, or that they had been shot. Then we have this: On December 28 2011 09:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I guess we will know tomorrow, won't we? Which is basically a softclaim that RoL is going to prove his role using a night action. Five hits in. The one mafia death is already claimed. Either RoL shot someone over the night and they were a townie, or the claimant lied. Basically every post on the second page of RoL's 2 page long filter implicates him as a mafia member. Unless someone has a near-perfect case on someone else, I'm keeping my vote here: ##Vote:RebirthOfLeGenD | ||
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On December 28 2011 14:35 bumatlarge wrote: 3 scum left, so we need all townies on one wagon, so if it's a mislynch we lose? Or wait everyone is a vig :D 2. RebirthOfLeGenD 4. kitaman27 5. syllogism 8. Liquid`Sheth 10. L 13. Chezinu 15. bumatlarge 19. prplhz I'll believe prphlz because WBG ended up being scum and was hounding him. L I think might be a pretty good lynch, foolishness shot him, and because all townies are vigis, roleblocking is probably an issue. Bat sense tell me this makes L scum. People need to not shoot people so much  Wait, what? Who did what to me now? | ||
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I just read through the thread, and the argument for shooting me is that someone crumbed a shot, then didn't shoot me, ergo I must be mafia. This is odd for two very short reasons: 1) The exact same thing happened for RoL, who has a mountain of lies and bullshit to his name. 2) It would be very easy to RB foolishness if I was a townie to attempt to train on me the next day and secure the win. So we're in a position in which mafia needs a SINGLE person from town to disbelieve an open and closed mafia case in front of them in order to defuse the lynch. Who steps up to the plate and tries to softpush me, then realizes he's an idiot and needs to go balls in because his case is terrible? bumatlarge. Who's his mafia cohort in this, a person who was ostensibly going to get vig hit tonight? Kitaman. Both of them have done relatively little for the entire game, both played very concilliatory day 1. Everything fits. Welp, Kitaman/bumatlarge/RoL for mafia fits pretty well. If Sheth was mafia he'd probably have been replaced quite a while back. Thanks for outting yourselves, buddies. RE: Night actions The only piece of the puzzle that is now missing is how we close out the game. We know mafia have a RB. We know we have a maximum of 5 shots as town. If we lynch properly today, there will be 2 mafia left (assuming there's only a single traitor). That'll probably cut down their KP to 1. If that's the case, then their night hit will put us at 4:2. My question here ends up being what should we do with respect to the night hits. We'll have 5. It seems like the best idea would be to shoot 1,3 or 5 people. | ||
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On December 29 2011 09:43 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Well then here's my proof. Its honestly not as bullet proof as I originally thought, but after thinking about it all day today I'm still quite happy with it. Our first night we have 5 deaths. We all know Chaoser killed Palmar. 4 left. Then its Gmarshal, VisceraEyes, Jackal and Samuel. Here its gotten tricky and we've had lots of confusion figuring this out. I'm not going to go into who caused a lot of the confusion but I think scum tried to take advantage of a lucky situation and I think no one figured out quite what did happen here. I'd like to suggest my opinion on it which I feel very confident in. 4 people are left unaccounted for. GM, VE, Jackal and Sam. Now BC claimed he shot GM and was proven correct. That leaves 3 unaccounted for. Sam + Jackal I can see as mafia doing 2 kp. I feel like in a small group like this mafia while still 4 having any more then 2 kp would be pretty insane honestly. This is the point pretty much my whole theory relies on. What about VE then? I think he shot GM as well and simply had to die based on his type of Vig shot. I think this was hinted at quite a bit as well when VE told me if I didn't vote something bad would happen to me at night, I think he simply chose to use this ability on GM. Heres the logic that hasn't been explained yet I think. He Thought GM was lieing, because he had LSB's exact job. He was that suicide vig and he was named Overtly Righteous Vigilante or whatever it was called. So because of this it made sense for him to use his power on GM. This caused the confusion here and led to what I believe to have happened. This idea and some others simply lead to the fact mafia have 2kp. This is the point I'm trying to prove from this and what I think you should take out of it. Next we get into the 6 who died this last night. GGC, BC, Chaoser, Wiggles, Foolishness, WBG. This has been tricky to pin down as well. If we believe Mafia had 2 kp, I think its somewhat obvious they'd kill Chaoser a confirmed blue and Foolishness who was really breathing down WBG's back, this isn't too important I'm just picking two for mafia to have called. This leaves 4 kills uncalled for. Prplhz killed WBG, I think thats obvious. So now were at 3 kills left over. Theres no real way to tell for sure how they killed each other but I think its easy to go about it logically. This leaves BC, GGC, and Wiggles. I don't see a really logical way for them to have town killed each other except for with help. The chances that GGC killed BC who killed Wiggles who killed GGC is pretty ridiculously small. I think the best and obvious chance is that one of those 3 was killed by outside influence. This was when RoL claimed that he shot BC. I find this much more believable then any other alternative. GGC and Wiggles perhaps one targeted the other with a suicide vig or perhaps did something else that resulted in them being killed (perhaps both targeting BC). So, with mafia kp at 2, and these 3 left with no one claiming I think it only makes sense that someone killed one of the 3 outside of those 3, and if no one is countering RoL's claim I believe him and I think its proof enough that hes innocent. This is what my "proof" boils down to, and I wish it was more concrete, but I believed it was true and still do. Two mistakes. The first is that GM supposedly shot RoL day 1, and that chez was rb'd that night. He claimed he isn't a vet, so how did he survive? The second is that mafia can call shots because they have kp. Shooting someone doesn't make you a townie. Shooting a mafia member does. Prplhz is either a vig or an sk, and I'd put my money on vig. Additionally, go read GGC's and Wiggle's filters; You'll find something interesting in there. | ||
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On December 29 2011 11:18 kitaman27 wrote: oh so now we're the scum team because we decided to vote for you? How about this one: bum goes from huge content and very town to doing relatively little and playing very conciliatory? Do you have no comments on the case made against you rather than just calling us scum for bringing it up? You seem to try to pass it off as being the target of Foolishness's shot, but there has been much more than you never address. Bum stopped posting content midway through the game after the majority of day 1 analysis ended. Go read his filter. He's now claiming that he crumbed that he's wanted to hit me all game, which was the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he was claiming day 1 when he supposedly made the claim. If that isn't a straight up lie, I don't know what is. What else, exactly, didn't I address? Feel free to bring it up. The entire argument against me now revolves around the fact that there are potentially multiple roleblockers which vindicates RoL(???) and that I was shot last night. I wasn't. We have a near 99% confirmed mafia in RoL and you're throwing shit at me after sitting on your thumbs all game. So no, Its not about voting for me. Its about voting for me - after I pinned your mafia buddy down - using logic WHICH DOUBLY INCRIMINATES YOUR BUDDY. We 100% need to lynch someone today, but we need to hit a mafia member. If you lynch me, we hit 4:3, probably with 2 mafia hits. remaining. At max, if there's a mafia RB, there are 3 hits you can put out. If mafia does have a medic or a second RB, that means 2 kills maximum if all 3 hits are available, but that's if all of the hits are allowed due to triggers and there's no overlap in the shots. So basically we're likely to only be able to shoot 1 mafia during the night, which puts us at 2:2, which is a loss. Now do you get why foolishness would be RB'd and a train driven at me asap afterwards? Now do you get why this is a pretty obvious mafia game ender? | ||
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On December 29 2011 11:54 prplhz wrote: Okay I didn't really want to post this in the thread but then I decided to do it anyway. Chezinu has been away for 6 days straight. We need all 5 town votes to survive today. If Chezinu is town then this game is already lost. That means that either Chezinu is scum or we lose anyway. Is this a very compelling argument for everybody switching to Chezinu or what? Between Chezinu and RoL, one of the two is mafia. I'd rather lynch RoL because I'm 99% certain its him. That said, if Chez is mafia, then bum probably isn't mafia, RoL would be cleared, you already are. That means we'd have chez/kita/sheth/syllo as the potential mafia members. We'd have 5 townies remaining with 4 ostensible shots (only bum and I have ours soft/hardclaimed) remaining against 4 potential targets. We'd pretty much win tonight. | ||
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On December 29 2011 12:12 Liquid`Sheth wrote: So, does everyone think we should mass role claim? I've never seen one, or been a part of one to know for sure if its a good idea or not. It just seems like this will be the last day, because of vig shots and things. And I think any more information on this last day could be important. Thoughts ? If mafia has avoided some of the triggers and has RBs, this could be a fantastic way to lose our only shot at winning the game tonight. | ||
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On December 29 2011 13:05 prplhz wrote: @L Are you ever going to tell people what the hell you found in GGQ and Mr. Wiggles' filters or what? Did you claim yet? GGQ spent the majority of his last few posts railing against RoL's claims, then voted wiggles. Then we've got GGQ's probably only 'quality' post which contains this: I see two possibilities: 1) Mafia roleblocked and shot GM. This is a pretty simpleminded way of doing things for the mafia. It completely eliminates the risk that GM would shoot one of them. 2) Mafia roleblocked GM and someone else shot him. Let's examine the motivations for each action. If Mafia roleblocks GM, he survives the night and no scum is dead. GM looks super scummy day 2 and very possibly gets lynched. Why would someone shoot him? Several decent cases about why he might be mafia were made during day 1 and he counterclaimed LSB who flipped town. He posted nothing during the night phase that would discourage a shot until after the deadline. It's quite possible that a townie would shoot him. I'm moving farther into speculation here, but I suspect VE shot GM. If you look at day 1, GM mentioned the possibility of suicide vigilantes in his post with the justice picture. VE then twice brings this up suggesting that GM seems to have hidden knowledge of roles in the game (GM had that knowledge because of his role but VE assumed that he had it because he was mafia which would mean VE assumed GM was right about there being a suicide vigilante. Why so certain? Because VE was one himself). Also he laters threatens Sheth that if he doesn't vote LSB something bad will happen to him overnight. GGQ was pretty much the only person on record defending against a lynch on the grounds which are now taking place. He was an outspoken critic of RoL's claims as well. Wiggles looked into RoL's claims and found that his claim to innocence was bullshit, then he spent the last day looking at a grand total of 1 thing: asking people to look into bum. After a full 3 days away from the thread, his ONLY posts were about bumatlarge. Add up the dots; Both were leaning against RoL. One was leaning against bum. Both die and then a bum/kita group starts pushing a lynch for a reason which could equally be pushed onto RoL. I mean, shit, this is a pretty obvious string of events. | ||
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On December 29 2011 17:00 prplhz wrote: @L Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that about Jackal58 and GGQ too when Jackal58 died? Jackal58 had been suspicious of GGQ and then Jackal58 died and you got suspicious of GGQ or something like that? Day 2's analysis was more of an effort to get people talking and see who would be willing to jump whole heartedly onto a lynch with an admittedly mediocre amount of information. The hope was that people would out themselves early on and that we'd be able to set up a play during the night, but we ended up having another innocent train start up, which completely neutered that effort. We ended up with a no lynch day 2 because of how little people were talking, so I'm not sure what could have been done better, but if I prevented BC from being lynched, I saved us a death. That said, I'm 1 out of 2 in terms of people I've pushed, the two being Palmar and GGQ, so the record isn't' that bad. In this instance, however, it isn't merely a single post of Jackal's casting aspersions at someone. Even if we just look at the posts of the dead, in this instance we have multiple players with MASSIVE posts against RoL's arguments on day 2 followed up with EXCLUSIVE posting about the person who is trying to start the bus to save him. There's also no one claiming the hits on these two people. But we don't just have the posts of the dead. We have voting patterns; RoL spent yesterday trying to get BC killed. His vote today and the post that goes along with it recognizes the fact that he realizes either he or chez is mafia. If Bum/kita believe that RoL is innocent, then why aren't they voting chez? The answer should be obvious; they don't give a shit about catching mafia. Bum started day 1 on the hydra. hydra died day 1 and pretty much everyone assumes it was a mafia hit. He switches to align with me onto palmar (at the same time as he now claims that he was crumbing a hit on me, which is a pretty overt lie), but promptly jumps off that to get on the innocent LSB train. Day two? Votes Wiggles then BC. Both, again, innocent. Kitaman? Sheth, GMarshall, Foolishness, Prplhz, BC, Me. I personally think Sheth is a townie, and I know you are unless you shot one of your mafia buddies, which leaves us with another 6 innocent people being pushed. So yeah, its a bit more than just a dead guy's post. | ||
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On December 29 2011 18:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: In retrospect, Chezinu and Sheth both might of been better shots, but I had more analytical reasoning for the BC vote. Might have? Either you or Chez is mafia and for some reason you didn't hit him because you instead wanted to kill one of our strongest players and it 'might' have been a mistake? Is anyone else even bothering to read how bad these posts are? | ||
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On December 29 2011 19:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Lol cherry picking much? I explained my reasoning in detail, BC had literally done nothing all game and wasn't looking to begin doing anything. Tell me though, yesterday did anyone once say me or Chez is mafia? I don't even recall that being remotely on the table until BC flipped. Stop making shit up. Uh, when Chez claimed he was RB'd, there were no other ways to explain why you weren't killed unless GM lied because you said you weren't medic protected. Multiple people brought this up, including me and a few people who are now dead. This is literally a bus driven by foolishness's crumb only that we have no one claiming RB today meaning that the scenario that GGQ was killed for describing is coming to fruition. If you're not mafia, you'd be 100% balls to the wall with an effort to kill Chez because you'd know he's mafia 100%. You're not doing that. You're chainsawing at me. This makes me pretty sure that you're the liar, and not him. Also, @Syllogism, Sheth never said that I was today's best lynch candidate, but that he thinks RoL is innocent because no one has counterclaimed his hit. If he thinks that's the case, then Chez is the best lynch target. | ||
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Glad its obvious there's a mafia bus up in here. If Chez is a townie, we just lost the game because me+him gone puts it at 3:3. This would mean that bum/kita/rol is the mafia team and that they've won. If Chez is mafia, then we hit 4:2 tonight and we've still got a shot. The only way to pass this lynch without the shot at losing is to kill RoL. Period. If Chez flips town, RoL being unlynched means we lose immediately. If RoL hasn't been lying (and I'd be surprised), then Chez will flip mafia, and in the process we'll exonerate kita/bum and sets us up to go into a 3:2 scenario tomorrow. So uh, go vote or we're going to lose. | ||
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On the plus side, we don't lose immediately when I'm lynched now. So, for night actions: when I flip town, shoot some combination of RoL, Kita and Bum and lynch whomever remains the following day. If you don't hit 2 mafia during the night, we go from 5:3 now to 4:3 after the lynch, then 2:3 after mafia hits, so we'd lose. On the plus side, if people don't derp out and decide to read this post, we might win, but given how poorly the town's playing it would surprise me if we lose regardless. Anyways, cheerio chaps. | ||
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On December 30 2011 14:16 bumatlarge wrote: Fuck L you know how to worry the shit of people. :D GL everyone! | ||
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So basically we had 3 chances to win and we threw all of them, and that's not including the 3 times we saved the town by RBing a townie shot. In retrospect I should have pushed to have no one RB'd day 1, but oh well. The shot on Syllo had pretty much all of us going ??? on IRC when we heard the grounds for it, but honestly the game shouldn't have even gotten to that point. I was hoping my day 1 analysis would be a REALLLLLLY big tip-off to the traitor. Looks like it worked, but I didn't expect it to be Palmar. Nuts. TL;DR GJ town. Our team blundered horrendously. | ||
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I just want to ask L what the point of his "GM was lying" topic about? It made me go from ok he's pretty townie to hmm...scummy... Because our original plan was to have our RB stay up until the deadline, f5 the shit out of the page as the time came up, then stay on GM till he crumbed he was shooting a townie, then switch off onto someone else with a pre-written pm message to save time.Then we didn't. So I operated most of that day thinking that someone was lying through their ass about who hit who. | ||
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