Responsibility Mafia! - Page 2

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 22 2011 23:13 GMT

#714

On December 23 2011 07:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm lonely guys, come play with me! Allowed to fester, I'll just keep coming up with crazy paranoid shit. I need guidance.

Don't worry broski, I got your back

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 03:44 GMT

#739

What are you guys even debating about x.x

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 04:57 GMT

#750

On December 23 2011 13:28 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm scratching the plan chezinu, my research is inadequate. Best of luck if I get shot. I have to go to bed an I have my 5th tenhour workday. And I think it's effecting my game. Hell, I'm on the same page with chezinu, so I must be pretty messed up. I think palmar is more likely town then L is. It's kinda annoying that I can't just rely on my role flipping to explain things, but I think it's better to hold off claiming, even if I was more certain I would get shot. Foolishness scares me more then BC.

If I had to guess, GM is town and mod's are cool. But I'm as sure of that as I was of LSB being scum.

Activity levels are unsurprising, but it wouldn't hurt to have one of the many less talkative people start yapping.

o.O

Trying to figure out the motivation for that post and I'm struggling

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 05:06 GMT

#752

noooo not RoL! You could have shot bugs!

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 05:14 GMT

#756

Please note all the players who have now decided to call me town right before day ends. And please note wherebugsgo

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 05:15 GMT

#757

EBWOP: I mean night* not day.

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 05:24 GMT

#767

Well if 5 people die next night then this is lylo

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 05:48 GMT

#777

I think RoL needs to go back and read the thread...

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 06:11 GMT

#788

I'm fairly confident that if GM lied about who he shot then he breadcrumbed the real victim in his post.

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 20:36 GMT

#831

I have already alluded to my suspicions before, but our lynch target for today is wherebugsgo.

My suspicions first started near the end of yesterday. I was reading through Steamship mafia (bugs was townie there) and I noticed that bugs posts and obscene amount of one-liners, something that is mysteriusly absent from this game. Upon reading Mini Mafia X (bugs was mafia this time), I observed the same thing as this game: the number of one liners he posted was not up to par with his normal town play.

Of course this is not enough to warrant an accusation in itself. Upon further analysis it is immediately apparent that bugs is completely out of character this game. The biggest thing is the lack of definite aggression that is typical of wherebugs go. Let's observe:

From this game, here is a post against me on day 1:

On December 22 2011 06:28 wherebugsgo wrote:
@Foolishness, I realize your town meta is "be useless day 1 into rape scumteam day 2" but if we are not afforded the luxury of having you around day 2 I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on who is scum as soon as you can give them to us. You are a valuable asset to town, and the day 1 lynch is as important as any other. This isn't a town full of new players, so lurking day 1 isn't going to afford you any protection. Can you explain why you are choosing to lurk and post relatively little anyway? What is the disadvantage of you posting a lot?

+ Show Spoiler +

I can see one, and that's you being scum and not wanting to post.

Now take a look at this attack on day 1 against Chaoser in Steamship. Bugs was green in this game.

On November 16 2011 09:46 wherebugsgo wrote:
Then, your attacks on Zephirrd are really bad too. He's a new player, and most of what he's saying makes sense. That's better than a lot of other new players. You even admit to making cases "out of nothing" as an attempt to create reactions from other players. That's not a good way to play town and you know it. You should be posting a case on someone after you have subtly pushed them for a while, instead of voting them the instant you think they've said something scummy. That's not reliable.

The difference in tone should be immediately obvious here. When bugs is town, his attacks are solid and concrete, just like the one against chaoser. To paraphrase, he says to chaoser, "yo, you're fucking up, fix your shit or else". This is the bugs we all know (and maybe love). He does not take shit from anyone and isn't afraid to call people out on their shit.

Yet this game we see a remarkable difference. It is not news to anyone that bugs wants to kill me, he's been after me for almost the entire game. That's fine on it's own. What's important is how he has been after me, as that does not fit his usual style of play.

Take another post he's made regarding myself:

On December 22 2011 07:51 wherebugsgo wrote:
The weird thing about Foolishness, for me, is that he should know that lurking today should offer him no protection. In a game full of people who KNOW he's good, why would he lurk day 1 as town? How does that further the goal of surviving to crush the scum day 2 onwards? I fully understand why he does it in other games. However, I've asked for his opinions several times and he doesn't give much. He says LSB's meta fits his town meta, but then Jackal says the opposite. I really don't like how Foolish is playing right now.

Again we see the same thing as above (and the rest of his posts against me aren't any better either!) Note how he's calmly drawing suspicion towards me without actually saying anything concrete (and he never votes for me either). This is a common mafia ploy: he wants to plant the idea in your mind that I'm suspicious and then wait for someone else to jump the gun and straight out accuse me. That way he is not accountable for me and he can claim that he was suspicious of me the whole time, all the while blending in perfectly as an honorable townsperson.

The above post is a perfect segway into my next item of interest in that bugs has been quite the question talker this game. Take a few examples:

On December 22 2011 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
overslept o_O

current votecount says this:

Show nested quote +

So clearly a lot of people have not voted yet.

Palmar, what makes you confident L is scum?

Foolishness, if you want to kill L, why is your vote not on him? Or has your opinion changed since I was last here?

Jackal, can you explain what makes you suspicious of LSB?

All the people who haven't voted yet: why are you not contributing to discussion?

On December 22 2011 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote:

Show nested quote +

What part about me calling LSB timid isn't saying he lacks confidence?

Did you even read my case? Did you read the posts other players have made about LSB?

I don't like the vibe you're giving off.

On December 22 2011 07:37 wherebugsgo wrote:

Show nested quote +

sandro was it you or curu who initially agreed with the LSB case I made?

Can you explain your current thoughts on the game? What do you think of Palmar/L? RoL? Foolishness?

Now I got no problem with someone asking questions, but I bring this up because it's very noticeable. wherebugsgo has been on the forefront of trying to get information out of other people (which is definitely a good thing), but it appears that is all he is trying to do. I'm not saying he's completely useless or hasn't provided his own analysis (he has justified the majority of his actions this game), but there's the obvious sense that he's trying hard to use other peoples' thoughts as his own.

More importantly, looking through a few of his past games you'll find that the amount of questions he is asking is really out of character for him. And this makes incredible sense too. When you think about bugs's playstyle, what do you think of? Actively calling people bullshitters and mass typing "loooool" as he proceeds to call you a retard. He is not the type of player who figures things out by asking questions and judging reactions.

----
But also, where is the retard calling bugs that we are used to seeing? Certainly not in this game that's for sure. The posts I've already quoted should serve as enough evidence that we are playing with a different bugs than we are all used to. Of course he's made a few posts that are typical of him, but on the whole something is definitely off. A few specific things he says stick out in my mind:

On December 21 2011 10:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
Foolishness you're mean!

He sounds like a child!

On December 22 2011 06:28 wherebugsgo wrote:
We need more information up in here. A lot of people haven't voted and the thread is relatively inactive. Most of those who have voted have not provided many reasons for their votes, but not all of them can be scum. So, let's get some information flowing!

"So, let's get some information flowing!" Does this sound like something bugs would normally say? I would expect a "we need to fucking kill these inactives before they lose us the game". These sentences are extremely out of character for him.
----------

Another interesting tidbit is that bugs is one of the most vote-happy people in the game. Take any game where he's town (Steamship is my favorite example) you'll see his vote switch between 3-4 people on any given day, usually on gut whims. In the past two games I found of him as mafia he's much more cautious with his vote and does not toss it around (although these were both mini games so there weren't as many players).

For example, in Steamship he changes his vote to lemonwalrus because he (lemonwalrus) made two sketchy posts.
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 17 2011 10:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
##unvote chaoser
##vote Lemonwalrus

Reason:

Show nested quote +

Sorry, but I can't let away with you calling out another player for an unreasoned vote and then pulling an unreasoned vote yourself.

I shouldn't need to remind you that we haven't seen any of this in the current game yet. As I'm writing this, he's said we should lynch me and yet he hasn't even voted for me.
----------------------------------------------------
This is a small thing in comparison to my arguments above, but when GM made his post about shooting RoL, I immediately posted the following:

On December 23 2011 14:06 Foolishness wrote:
noooo not RoL! You could have shot bugs!

Which is the first thing I have ever said regarding wherebugsgo. Roughly 45 min later, bugs makes this post:

On December 23 2011 14:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
...
however, we lost a LOT of townies last night. We need to hit scum today. I say we kill Foolishness.

This almost seems like the textbook case where you vote for a mafia and they immediately counter-vote you. I'm curious though. Before I made that post I had said absolutely nothing regarding bugs, then I make my one liner post after GM's long post. I expected him (or anyone for that matter) to take this as another one of my troll posts that I am apparently famous for. Instead he takes it as a legitimate threat and says that we need to kill me. Note that this is the first time he has directly said that I need to die. I've quoted the majority of posts he's made about me already, but yes, this is the first time. As I said above all of his posts have been casting doubt and suspicion upon me, and never has he concretely said that I need to die. All of this, coming from the person who will switch votes to someone because they made a stupid post.

Something's wrong.

Let's swat this bug away!
##Vote: wherebugsgo

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 23:04 GMT

#841

On December 24 2011 07:33 L wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 24 2011 01:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

On December 23 2011 16:32 L wrote:

On December 23 2011 15:42 chaoser wrote:
Ok, you bring up a good point. I'll have to retread the whole claiming part of day 1 tomorrow but I still don't understand why gm would feel the need to lie at midnight, when all the actions have been set in stone and a lie would just confuse the town instead of being clean and simple. I feel like a more valid reason for the kills would be that a bus driver bussed his kill but that's also just speculation.

RE: Bus driver

Bus driver's possible, but the end result with respect to who mafia killed doesn't change, so it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not he lied, only whether or not he shot Visc. If anyone bussed Visc/RoL they're either delusional or mafia, which means mafia has a bus driver.

Which means this game is fucking broken. We can't call shots to confirm anyone. Roles like GM and LSB's can be rerouted with mafia knowledge of who's innocent to change a shot against mafia to a double townie kill. The only way of obtaining proper information about a shooter would be to have at least 3 people shoot during a night.

But that's kinda beyond the fact. A driver is an assured +3 for mafia with a single night action. I hope you recognize that even hatters typically don't have that much firepower (3 bomb hatters are a +2 swing and take the entire game to set up). The only night action I've seen do more than a 3 kill swing for a team was the Murrayitis plague, but there were at least five plague related roles acting across 3-4(5?) days in the game that had to engineer the beautiful destruction that we set up for that one.

RE: RoL

I'm not claiming EITHER lied about their role. If LSB's role wasn't the same as GM's GM wouldn't have had a need to continue pushing him and would have said "oh shit, we DONT have the same role". But that's not the case.

Nothing in ANY of LSBs or GMs post indicate that their vig shots do not work vs townies, with LSB basing his plea on the very fact that it does. GM replied to this very point without commenting on it.

RE: GGQ

So, you have VE shooting GM, who would die or confirm himself as green during the night. No. You also have 3 mafia KP per day which leads to LyLo on day 2 with a single missed justice vig. Double No.

I don't like what you are doing. Its blatant fear mongering with insane theorizing behind this games set up. We can assume the mafia probably has a RB, and probably a GF, at most I'd give them one more power role which would probably be a medic which would encourage the idea of responsibility by allowing the mafia to punish the town trying to coordinate publicly. A bus driver makes the game crazy on so many levels while serving the same effect that a medic would by allowing them to disrupt hits, but would do it in a much more destructive manner.

You go even farther to say that there must be a bus driver and this game is fucked. Stop talking about crazy shit and be productive, I will just kill you if I see you fear mongering and not being productive one more time, its scummy as shit L and its not going to fly.

RE: You
RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying.

I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful.

Seriously, what the shit.

Stop debating nonsense. It's clear that nothing you or RoL have said today is going to lead anywhere except distraction land.

On December 24 2011 07:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
Foolishness I have a question for you:

If you truly believed LSB was town day 1 why did you not speak up? Why did you put in near 0 effort to show to us that he was town? Why did you defend him on meta grounds but not offer examples of the games he's played?

Foolishness, why are you so damn lazy?

Because I did not truly believe he was town. I thought that GM was a much better lynch given the events that had transpired (I talked about this in a post I made at the end of the day). And I wouldn't go so far to say I put in near zero effort, I certainly moved my vote to GMarshal and explained my reasoning. Though at this point it was already very late in the day and there was much more interesting things to observe (such as who was bandwagoning LSB and what not).

And I defended him on meta grounds relatively early in the day, not anywhere near the claim (correct me if I'm wrong though). And I certainly didn't do anything concrete; I just filtered his posts in this game and one of his mafia games and didn't see anything glaringly similar. Then I checked one of his townie games and this game looked more similar to that. There wasn't any rigorous deduction there.

And also, I'm willing to hold everyone else accountable for being lazy at this point. Let us both recap what has happened day 2. Wiggles makes a very very safe accusation against Sheth. Sheth has hardly done anything in response. L is writing text walls. RoL and a few others are debating what happened to GM which is clearly not leading anywhere. chaoser is clearly bored out of his mind.

Day is like 20 hours over and there have been 2 votes, my vote for you and a very odd case against Chezinu. Clearly the mafia are shaking in their boots /sarcasm.

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 23 2011 23:37 GMT

#846

1) Yes, I already explained why I was interested in your in my earlier accusation of you. You claim to have been watching me this entire game (although you haven't done anything until now) yet you've spent your time against LSB too.

2) - 3) I already stated that I would rather lynch than no lynch. You wouldn't? Cool. I don't care, that's your opinion and that's something we could spend days arguing about. That's not what this is about.

If you don't want to nitpick about what I thought LSB was, then don't nitpick about my actions on whether or not I tried to save him. I moved my vote off of him and gave reasoning why GM was the better lynch. That's 100% more than the majority of people in this game (including yourself I might add).

The last thing we need right now is a bandwagon vote onto the inactive Sheth.

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 27 2011 06:23 GMT

#918

I shall use the same excuse as L: was busy with xmas stuff. The real reason was because I thought day was ending tomorrow and not today, because somehow I miscalculated the times. But that excuse makes me sound like a retard so the reason I was gone because I was busy with xmas stuff.

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 27 2011 06:24 GMT

#919

Surprised that nobody noticed this, but I'm very confident that the mafia have a medic and that the mafia medic saved RoL last night (yes, meaning RoL is mafia).

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 27 2011 06:30 GMT

#920

Hey RoL, got a big question for you:

On December 25 2011 08:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
We have 5 dead, two hits we can reasonably explain. Chaoser claimed killing Palmar who could be a traitor/third party according to the rules and Gmarshal killing himself by hitting me. So that leaves 3, VE, Jackal58, and SamuelLJackson (Curu/Sandroba).

You claimed that you did not take a hit last night.

LSB confirmed that if he shoots a green both the green and him die.

Thus you should be dead, as GM dying is accounted for now.

But I am also curious why you would say what I highlighted in your post if you were town. Seems like you wrote that because you have extra information on some sort of night events happening.

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 27 2011 06:50 GMT

#922

Okay but they have the same exact text with the exception of the role name. Why would one of them have it so that both him and the green die (if he shoots a green) and the other have it so just he dies (if he shoots a green)?

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 27 2011 21:13 GMT

#927

The other day I thought that BC was red, but his claim makes a lot of sense.

Why RoL is still alive is the biggest problem at the moment. If GM breadcrumbed his real target (which most people seem to think he didn't) I haven't been able to figure out the real target.

Pretend that you are RoL and you are mafia. You got shot last night but you survived due to whatever reason (medic, veteran, etc). What would you say in the thread? You are highly suspicious cause you were inactive day 1, so claiming that you took a hit isn't going to do anything for you since it will just make the town lynch you anyways. But if you claim that nothing happened to you during the night, suddenly you might be saved since everyone is now distracted with what really happened during the night. And perhaps GM's suspicions of you were just a farce to hide his real shot.

We should still kill bugs at some point though.

Foolishness

United States3044 Posts

December 28 2011 05:00 GMT

#941

Look at all my posts that I wrote during this past night (including this one). Take the first letter in each post and read in chronological order.

The only explanation so far I've seen for why RoL is still alive is that GM lied about his hit (not likely) or that GM was roleblocked. Obviously GM being roleblocked makes a ton of sense, except Chezinu claimed to be roleblocked. I don't see the reason for Chezinu to lie about being roleblocked, so it does not make sense that Chezinu is mafia.

I didn't think RoL was mafia cause he was active day 2 (after he promised he would be), but nothing adds up still. That said, I'm relatively certain that bumatlarge and GGQ are both innocent based on analysis. I do not think kitaman is mafia either.