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Election Mafia - Page 2

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cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 21 2011 12:10 GMT
#2298
@Greymist What did you think saved you? Was it your defence? Nope it was your roleclaim. And now you are trying to accuse I was being helpful in pointing that out. As a virtually confirmed townie you should think more before posting.

@Others trying to suggest I was trying to build up town cred by not voting for Greymist. These people trying to paint me as scum can do so either way - If I voted for Greymist I was happy to see some non scum die. If I did not vote for Greymist its because I know better and I was trying to build towncred. You can see how much towncred I obtained. I had the stance I was going to see Greymist's defence before committing my vote and I stuck to it. I gave Greymist another chance because his first defence was a short one from his phone and not a full one.

@TNTP When I post a case, I am pretty darn sure about it. Right now, I don't have a strong scum read on any of the survivors atm. I was pretty sure that the mafia play this game reflects the fact that the surviving mafia are lurkers. And of today, evantrees seem to be another confirmed townie and nycz was modkilled. While it is entirely possible that the mafia lies in the rest I have pinpointed out, I need to re-evaluate in light of this new information.

As for Deus, I was just pointing out the incongruity between town's treatment of him and me. That would be the explanation above. Shouldn't you expect a vet to contribute more? That was why I was pressuring him throughout for more detailed posts that don't consist of him asking everyone's opinions and saying nothing himself. Would you not agree that sort of play leans on the scum side? Of course pressure by myself with such an unpopular stance makes me seem misguided and not achieve anything. I thank some members of town for finally catching on and asking questions of Deus too. With their help, Deus finally made more substantive posts and took a stance.

@Deus, of all people you should understand the logic of watching Radfield and you know what would happen if Radfield dies.

Note to self: I probably should develop the habit of making small one liners in each place that don't say anything instead of one gigantic post. Noone reads that, and small one liners have the effect of upping my post count into more pages. -_-
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 21 2011 12:14 GMT
#2299
@Deus I voted Sheth as at that point in time, Sheth had a vote for him. I wasn't sure how twon and I wanted the rest of elections to go.Yeah that was so bad of me not to vote for you.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 22 2011 12:25 GMT
#2378
@Refallen you were convinced that I was town yesterday, does that make you mafia? All I read from Sheth's filter is that he believes nycz is the right lynch. He could have easily jumped on the premade comprissent bandwagon instead of me, with a good case that actually garnered more votes.

Today's election is fairly easy, should be Radfield and a confirmed townie like Zeks.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 22 2011 16:56 GMT
#2417
@Refallen and the rest, Sheth was defending Greymist too? On hindsight, he was trying to build towncred using his knowledge that Greymist is innocent. It doesn't imply that he was 100% using the same strategy on me, but you can't always rely on mafia actions since they can WIFOM and troll you.

@Cwave The same for your list. So all of mafia didn't spread out their vote and all voted for Radfield day one. On day 2 and day 3 mafia somehow must continue their strategy is to spread out their vote to avoid being suspicious despite it not being a problem on Day 1. Also on Day 3 lynch final tally I was voting for same target as Sheth too. Does that clear me in your eyes?

In addition, Day Two lynched final tally we had ProfBad's guilt virtually confirmed. Almost the entire town voted for ProfBad. (excluding ProfBad who cannot vote himself, nycz who wasn't playing the game and got modkilled) High chance of all the scum voting ProfBad. Really? When the entire town did so? Useful observation. In fact, I would say the ones at fault would be Cwave and TNTP who didn't vote ProfBad.

@All I realise Deus opinion has coloured your thoughts town, but stop cherrypicking facts to force me to fit into your image of scum.

@Zeks I don't see why Dropbear would be chosen over ProfBad either, so it was most likely random.

@jaj22, risk.nuke and rest. Good catch that we have all of mafia powers accounted for and a 100% confirmed townie could be a better election prospect than a mere 90% confirmed townie.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 22 2011 17:07 GMT
#2419
@Roleblock/Radfield question

Watcher stated in thread works both day and night. Watcher will be able to detect roleblocks committed anytime during that timeframe. That's the purpose of a watcher. If he cannot watch actions that were submitted before/after him it would be stupid making people camp the action and waste their time. This watcher cannot be roleblocked himself.

Therefore,
1) Radfield was not roleblocked last night
2) Deus is lying. (unlikely)

Was Radfield roleblocked all along?
1)Even though he was not roleblocked last night, he did not have additional votes show up. (unless Deus lied)
2)However, we know that mafia has a roleblocker. (Sheth) Noone else claimed they were roleblocked.

What town should do:
Anyone who was roleblocked last night speak up. Remember Sheth was still alive to use his roleblock ability.


HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 22 2011 17:12 GMT
#2420
On December 23 2011 02:02 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
i dont understand your last paragraph...
who do you want to lynch and who do you want to elect?

and dont answer with a question. i want rad and zeks #1,2
and you lynched, not only you just posted again without content!!!


Lynch - YOU. Criticizing me while acting the same way(as a vet too!) speaks of double, contradicting standards.
Election - zeks, mrzentor, radfield. Both zeks and mrzentor are confirmed, while I feel that Radfield has been posting town this game.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 23 2011 06:50 GMT
#2452
Today I am sad to announce Deus is scum.

Here's his filter
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=237734&user=237734

Well, look at him and his worthless filler posts:
On December 16 2011 18:48 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
palmar, curu is not lynchable today. He could pardon himself.


On December 14 2011 04:35 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
wow my meeting is so boring!!!


Here's a trap with a smiley face to indicate unserious post, and he bites to increase his postcount because I disparage him in a following sentence in the same post,
"The obvious candidate would be a vet like deus, but meh."
On December 15 2011 21:06 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 19:04 cascades wrote:
Let's hope mafia helps kill all the vets for us. =)


why?


Well, look at him trying to softdefend ProfBad. Not a strong reason sorely by itself, but worth considering.
On December 16 2011 19:00 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
+ I think we should give him another chance. Not only because he could destroy our whole day if he just pardons whoever we vote for - but also because I think he's a good player and when he's here, he's making sense.


On December 16 2011 19:18 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
i don't need a longer one... I have different reasons why I refuse to lynch curu today.
From what I've learned in xlvii I think it's bad to lynch players at the start who have the potential to be good.
If you remember, I pushed for a lynch between you and BC pretty hard and in the end we had that lynch between you. However you were both town. If we had given both of you more time, and would just have lynched obvious scum like zeks prplhz greymist or erandorr back then, we would have won this easily.
I think we have the same proplem here. I don't think that there is absolutely no veteranplayer in the scumteam. And among the veteranplayers curu is right now definetely the scummiest. But if we start right now with lynchung each other rather than looking for the more obvious candidates we will all be dead day3 and the game will end in chaos.


Well, look at him trying to claim credit. Jumping on the ProfBad bandwagon, and then the Greymist one. The Greymist especially came out of nowhere.

On December 19 2011 07:21 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 04:35 cascades wrote:
As for Deus, although I can't speak for the rest of the town, rest assured I have an eye on him. I will wait for him to post his town list WITH REASONING though.


says the scumcascades :-D
I am watching you, too and I've seen enough. You're scum aswell as this badboy:


Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 03:02 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 19 2011 02:22 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
i had refallen on my townlist.
greymist is 95% scum.

will get back to this later and advice annul to post my list 1min before the night ends.


Just noting this for now, notice how dues (supersoft) said earlier that he is very good at telling my town from my scum, and because of this he would research me. Now notice how he waits for both arcticod and radfield to voice their suspicions before he posts. If he is so sure I am "95%" scum and he has as good of reads as he claims, why not say this earlier instead of waiting for Arcto and rad?



Show nested quote +
On December 17 2011 17:38 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
On December 17 2011 16:50 cascades wrote:
So I guess this confirms ProfBad as scum then. I was looking through the vets to determine scummy play. I found all of them scummy for not pointing out how Arc was killing town discussion. I even laid the foundation to do so, but none of them stepped up to the plate. Finally Deus supplied the answer: it is Arc (Palmar) meta is to always play antitown like this. Hahahaha.

And now we have yet another policy lynch based on the fact that this Erandorr vet is a joke that ragequits games when he gets mafia. And in fact he does this so often its a meta that every vet knows. Surreal. Why isn't he permabanned yet? I want a Erandorr ban if ProfBad turns out to be scum. What a joke.

Banning Erandorr if ProfBad = scum?


btw. I'd like to have your opinion on the following players:

evantress
bumatlarge
nyczbrandon
GreYMisT
Cwave
tntp

:-)


I had you on my list first :--D

G_G


His only mention of Greymist -> Greymist is 95% scum! Last time I checked, asking a player their reads on other players does not imply you think they are scum.

Look at him trying to wriggle away from responsbility for his thoughts. Greymist was 95% scum! Oh wait Greymist is actually 95% townie oops. Nycz turns out to be town instead of scum! Oops why did you guys vote for nycz he's only on my scumlist, but third place. Obviously if you voted for someone else on my scumlist things would be different. There's a reason why you put nycz as a scumread instead on under the null list. Man up. The town doesn't have to listen to you 100%. Look at the Greymist lynch for example. Unless you are scum and know better.

Look at him martyring (rings a bell?):

On December 21 2011 23:51 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
Read the spoiler if you nuked me and not cascades:

+ Show Spoiler +
GOOD GOD, YOU SCREWED UP SO HARD, MY HEAD EXPLODES! YOU ARE THE WORST MAFIAPLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THAT GAME


Even if the vig (Zeks) doesn’t believe I was mafia and didn't nuke me, there was no reason then to believe vig would target Deus instead, unless he was subconsciously afraid and guilty. (Deus got the trust of town and got the election the way he wanted).

And finally, the jewel in the case:

What is a major scumtell. When your actions don't matchup with your words
On December 23 2011 02:02 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
i dont understand your last paragraph...
who do you want to lynch and who do you want to elect?

and dont answer with a question. i want rad and zeks #1,2
and you lynched, not only you just posted again without content!!!


Where is your content? The only "content" I can remotely see is your reads list. A random number generator can post the reads list you did since they were not backed with actual content.

On December 23 2011 03:01 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
phew cascades... attacking my credibility for no reason except defending yourself isnt exactly protown.


Firstly, I was repeatedly on Deus for posting his cases and his reads instead of asking questions and saying nothing himself. Isn't the first time I was ragging on Deus, isn’t something that came out of the blue.
Where has Deus attacked my credibility for a reason, any reason at all? (except for perhaps the sake of needing to attack someone?) I invite you to read through this filter again:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=237734


Nope. When you say one thing and act another, that's scum.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 23 2011 11:12 GMT
#2458
I am a VT.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 23 2011 19:33 GMT
#2497
So its been way more than the 8-9 hours Deus said he would post his reasoning, and once again once the heat is off he merrily skips out on it, and town lets him. Or is he waiting for me to not be present to defend myself in order to post?

Yeah I see the kind of scumhunting that is encouraged. Just point fingers at people. Has these accusations stuck? Nope. What has stuck? A good case on Greymist. So instead we are all grasping at straws and at each other's throat for anything and everything perceived to be scummy. You agreed with Sheth? SCUM. You disagreed with Sheth? SCUM BUS. Wtf reasoning is going on here, I don't understand.

This is what happens when things are isolated and taken out of context. For example, my case on Deus could have been split into many many different posts, in "true townie fashion". Do they mean anything by themselves? Hardly indicative.

Has Cwave posted anything on me? Nope he's just the same as Deus. Let's follow the easy lynch to get town off my back.

And why? Because of lazy setup reasoning. Well 20% of players are mafia, so 1/5 vets = mafia! We already caught the allocated number of scum vets which is Curu. Does this setup make sense in such a vet oriented game? So basically that poor mafia vet screws up/ goes inactive, and the rest of mafia can just GG? They stand almost no chance of getting someone in an elected position (unless they happen to have way to demonstrate they are town?) Oh wait, we already saw all of the mafia powers with today's secret ballot that no one is claiming, none of them are viable for faking a confirmed townie. Those that are "semi-viable" have town counterparts that they can just easily counterclaim.

Anyhow, all I ask is that you guys look over my case if I get lynched. Pls look at Deus's filter and draw your own conclusions. I know it is 6 pages, and I admit to being lazy and not examining Sheth's huge filter in detail, but Deus is mostly one liners. Good night.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 24 2011 13:33 GMT
#2574
On December 24 2011 18:13 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
I want to explain you guys something:

The scumteam wants to attack my credibility, because I am one of the people who can't really confirm themselves.
If cascades is a townie, why didn't they help me to lynch him already?


So this is the explanation Deus can offer? This is so vague and so bad, I don't even know where to start.

So let's assume scum wanted to attack credibility of posters who can't confirm themselves as Deus is saying. Except I posted my case on Deus before he claimed VT. According to this logic, I can't be scum, which contradicts what he has been implying.
Not to explain this doesn't address my points at all.

On December 24 2011 18:13 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
I want to explain you guys something:

The scumteam wants to attack my credibility, because I am one of the people who can't really confirm themselves.
If cascades is a townie, why didn't they help me to lynch him already?


Bolded to indicate who the "they" can refer to.
You just answered your own question. I was attacking you, why would scumteam help to lynch me eh?

Even if Deus was posting from a mafia perspective, sorry Deus, it takes more than the two of you to lynch someone. There are people calling for my lynch just because a self-declared "I can't be confirmed" guy said so, so it definitely isn't for lack of trying.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 25 2011 18:05 GMT
#2611
Merry Xmas to all folks.

Thanks to risk.nuke for being a bigger man and resisting Deus's trolling.

Well Deus. Lead by example instead of empty words if you want to prove yourself to be likely town.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 26 2011 15:31 GMT
#2637
Well I see Deus has managed to successfully guilt trip you guys into voting me without a case. Town credit too good.

That's okay, my only case remains on Deus. While of course I would prefer the lynch order to be the other way round, if it requires you guys to lynch me first to get him lynched, so be it. I'm as scum as he is town. Don't let him escape.

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 27 2011 20:20 GMT
#2682
Defending myself seems pretty pointless effort but I will do real comprehensive one for town.

On December 27 2011 06:19 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
okay, just finished the obligatory phonecall with my gf:

Cascadees:

"OT: @Sheth, No my nick comes from cascades as in waterfall. I did look up the juggling term you mentioned. I can do basic 3 ball cascades though, so hey, I got a new origin story next time someone asks."
mhm...

How is this a tell? hmph..

"Dropbear: Has made one scummy post. That wasn't enough for Arc to vote him, but he is also a lurker. Needs to defend himself
ProfBadass: Made a post for election and disappeared. Well he is a vet, so I would give him more leeway. For now."

commentating on the scumvets. But he commentates the behaviour of 5 already confirmed (due death) townies in the same post. At this point of time several people called out both scumvets already, so it's nothing new etc.

Yes my fault that they looked scummy and they were valid lynch targets later on.

"Some people were questioing about my late vote on spaackle. I was on the fence about spaackle. I had seen Radfield and ProfBadass push against him. I know he made a "slip". However, nothing else stood out as scummy enough. Sure, people pointed out holes in his analysis. Still, I felt his posts on the election was good. None of this RNG bullshit."
defending his vote.

"Now spaackle has turned up innocent, and a blue too. If I was to redo my lynch, would I lynch spaackle again? The answer is yes." - I think I already posted this line of casc earlier. This strong defense of his mislynchvote isn't necessary at this point. Noone accused especially him for the mislynch.

People were complaining about late town votes for the mislynch. I can't speak for all of town, so I will speak for myself.

"Who do you and Deus think should have been in office then? ProfessorBadass was the only vet that was online. I don't think the people who voted in ProfBadass were at fault."

Answer the question without hindsight

Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 22:17 cascades wrote:
On December 15 2011 21:06 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
On December 15 2011 19:04 cascades wrote:
Let's hope mafia helps kill all the vets for us. =)


why?


joke?
joke question.


I also already posted this one. I still don't understand his joke. He didn't explain it to me.

Like Cwave was complaining about roles all going to vets and the rest of newbies not getting some. Context man context.

"Radfield: Has been active and has good content in posts, being helpful. Based on posts alone, I think he is most likely of all the vets to be townie.
Arc: Very good activity. Has to elaborate and give reasoning for most posts though. "Cos I say so" doesn't cut it.
Deus: He used to post simple one-liners. That doesn't help us much. He has put in more effort in his posts since then though.
ProfBad: Bursts of activity. While he was here, he was active in helping find scum. Needs to be more involved though so that we can get something done.
Dropbear/bumatlarge: Bad activity. Only came out to respond when accused. That would be really suspicious if it wasn't for the fact he got replaced, so there's somewhat a reason for that activity. Neverthless, I will be watching his replacement closely."

His thoughts on the vets.: First of all, I think it's astounding how he purposeful picks out the players that are actually considered to be vets, although noone of these vets made a list of the vets in the thread.
Somewhere he picked up these informations about the players and I strongly doubt that he read back into our last games and tries to see who played how many games. Did he really look whether me, supersoft, is a vet?

I think someone made up that list in their scumQT.

These are only the players who ran for campaign and got commented on by others. Do your research.

"I will wait for ProfBad to defend himself before making final judgement."
yeah sure. Wait for the defense and see how the general atmosphere develops...

Wait for the defence and see how guilty ProfBad was. Too hard a concept for Mr 95%-scum

After this post and Curus failed defense, he starts yelling at curu and being really upset that curu is such a disappointing scumplayer lol. Townmotivation to rage at a failurescum? Noneexistant.

I raged at Eriandor. Good misrepresentation. Sorry if raging at selfish pricks is disallowed.

After Greymist claimed medic:
"As a matter of principle, I don't like Greymist's defence. He said that he is not remaining tight lipped, but I don't see him contributing anything new for town - he's just repeating his previous scumtells. Evantrees and I have already posted a refutation, so I suggest you guys go look at that instead of trying to jump on an invalid bandwagon."
- I think he didnt realize the impact of this claim. With no counterclaim greymist was confirmed town.

Read the rest of that post. I think you didnt realise how not to cherrypick facts.

"At last Deus actually gives his own opinion instead of fishing for others! Applause for his first real "contribution".
You are going to have to do better than that I am afraid. I don't even know what is behind town's high regard for you. Definitely artificial. All you have done so far is to jump on bandwagons, such as trying to claim credit for Greymist's lynch. You were 95% sure then.

Good night."

attacks me when I call him out the first time. He avoids the direct discussion by leaving.
Of course I was 95% sure then 95% not 100%! He played strange, the medicclaim saved his ass and explained parts of his defensive behaviour.
(Hey Greymist. Now that your medicpowers are gone, you have no reason to hide your opinion anymore... just saying)

You attack me after I call you out. Lol attack on my timezone! What discussion? Your CASCADES IS SCUM posts? Have to respond with AM NOT.


I wont commentate on the rest. All he does is accusing me for little reason. He experiences support by risk.nuke. I don't know how to file their alliance against me.

General thoughts:
He basically never explained anything and he never defended himself. He seems to just not care about the townvictory. Scum sacrifices a player from time to time. Town never sacrifices a player. It's just stupid.

I defended myself when Greymist targeted me. Great job on reading what you want to read. I can't defend myself against your LOL SCUM accusations. Now you have a half decent case I am responding. It is good for town to trade 1 for 1. You are scum. Good trade!


I don't want to die to make someone look scummier I accused earlier. Since I cannot know his alignment for sure, my death won't help the others at all. Townies are wrong all the time and that's no reaon to kill them.

Therefor it's not in towns best interest to accuse the one who accuses you, just because he does.
These emotional OMGUS doesn't convince the others and is just bad play.

I didn't accuse you because you accused me, I accused you cos your filter looked like shit. Attempting to discredit me this way is disingenuous. Real copycat.



As for Deus being town.....
.....
...
......
....
For example, him trying to wifom watcher doesn't do shit. He had to watch Radfield, no wifom can be allowed there. Else he can watch mafia sacrifice someone under heavy suspicion for Radfield and not catch them cos he wasn't watching. (PUN INTENDED) . Furthermore, Radfield as medic can wifom already and much better and he's trying to claim credit for that. Frustatingly, no one else has brought this point up.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 27 2011 20:39 GMT
#2683
Scum should be trying to keep their mouth shut so as to not give away information. Doubt people will care. Sadly, now that I forced Deus to post some non non-sense, I am getting lynched. The irony.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 30 2011 12:54 GMT
#2809
My scumtell post? The post about Eriandorr you mean? Well I am still pretty mad about him; while I am not mad about Dropbear. Someone who has a history of not playing because he thinks it is not fun to play as scum should be permabanned.

Curu used him as an excuse for his lack of activity. I don't know how large a factor that is, but more importantly, Eriandor is going to ruin future games.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 30 2011 13:03 GMT
#2810
Would also like comments on my play if any. I got outed as a scum in obs thread boohoo. ._.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 30 2011 16:21 GMT
#2816
Thanks supersoft and palmar for the comments.

@Supersoft, well there were too many confirmed townies and the two vets. Had to get rid of them somehow.
Theory on jaj can't be TOO feasible.
Refallen looked like a new town poster for the most part. Building a case on him doesn't seem any more rewarding than one on some lurker like nycz.

@Palmar, you are right on difficulty of judging.Treat me as being #1 town poster, as I was making a conscious effort to refrain from garbage logic. For example, I am blind to my day 1 posting scumminess. I generally don't bother much with day 1. Too little to tell if someone was being dumb or being scum. Especially this game there was tons of garbage logic from new town. I mostly ignored them. Am I supposed to attack them?

Some quotes from you:
Both Syllo and I suck at finding scum, we're really good at finding townies though, so we're using the process of elimination to find them.


So apparently I didn't say anything townie enough eh?


OT:
Erandorr wouldn't join a game and then not post... unless he rolled scum.


Straight from the horse's mouth about Erandorr. I believe Deus also mentioned it somewhere and Curu was talking about it in scum QT. Which is why I am so upset about him. Joining many games and not posting when scum.... What kind of player is that?
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
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