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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Do you guys actually think a town player would just toss his dayvig to the wind in the hopes some other player gets it right!?
Annul is up against the ropes here the only way to save his ass is to hit a mafia, and you think he's going to put the gun in TOADS hand?? Screw that, you cock the gun and fire at your strongest scum read, the one presumably leading the lynch on you(remember if you are town you know the wagon on you is bs too).
Kingjames, Jackal, mattchew, toad, lanaia, VE,
Please switch your votes to annul. No way what he did comes from a townie mindset. That would be the worst play ever, unless you thought you had terrible terrible scum reads(which annul most certainly does not think of himself)
Keep in mind prplhz just got shot, so we are down to 9 votes on annul, but still need 11.
Corrupt, in the off chance that you actually place a vote and don't get modkilled, please vote annul.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:23 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 11:17 Radfield wrote:On December 09 2011 10:55 kingjames01 wrote:On December 09 2011 10:25 Refallen wrote:
I already addressed the doublestack point; come on, that argument is so weak it's not even funny. You're right. I concede this point. I hadn't read Mafia XLVII so I was unaware of this possibility. However, my case does not rely on that premise. On December 09 2011 10:25 Refallen wrote:Why? Cause dead Townies who CANNOT possibly know our alignments were suspicious? Are you perhaps mafia and you wanted them dead BECAUSE they were suspicious of us? You weren't successful hitting annul due to him being saved and you couldn't kill me directly because I had only denounced you and that would have put a lot of heat on you? Mafia trickery.
I don't get this point, can you rephrase it? My intent here is that you cannot rely on dead Townie's suspicions to find mafia. Many times mafia will kill a Townie PRECISELY because that Townie suspected the wrong person. Why are you here debating something outrageously irrelevant to the current situation. Day 1 you threw your vote away after lurking hardcore, you are doing the exact same thing again. You've popped up at the end of each day making a case on an irrelevant player while barely commenting on any of the goings on of the day. You also continue to talk in generalities. Please step it up. It's not irrelevant. Just because you believe it to be so doesn't make it so. I have here a GENUINE mafia candidate who I am voting instead of speculating between players who I actually believe to be Town.
Great, he's not going to get lynched today. Do you really think everything that just went down is tickety-boo? Just business as usual?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:26 Risen wrote:
Well hmm... Between finals and going to dinner tonight has been much more busy than I thought it would be. Is there anything I absolutely MUST know before pouring through everything I've missed and voting? I'll justify my vote as best I can. It looks like the two main candidates for a vote are annul and... annul. Everyone else hardly has any votes.
Yes, you need to vote annul. We need two votes, and yours is supremely important.
Annul is a jack, he also has access to a dayvig shot.
With 11 votes and him likely to be lynched, he asked for town consensus on the who the most likely town was(toad). He then passed his dayvig shot to toad and toad killed prplhz.
I hold that annul was trying to wash his hands of any deaths. Any true town player would simply have taken their shot at the player they think most likely scum, not rely on some other players scum reads. Annul has been pushing Palmar as scum for 72 hours and 50 pages. Had he shot him and Palmar flipped red he would be 99% confirmed town. Instead he passed his shot to some other person.
No way annul is town. Please vote annul.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:29 vaderseven wrote:
Honestly, aanul has 100% verified his claim. What would a jack that can do a traditional cop be useful to as the mafia?
THINK PEOPLE THINK.
It wouldn't, role cop is moderately useful, but not really. However annul does not necessarily have access to the same other 2 powers that you do. I don't even know why I asked the question.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
Rad: My top scum-reads are STILL VOTING FOR ANNUL. I'm not voting for Annul. If you're willing to compromise, I'd be willing to go with a redFF vote, but I'm NOT giving scumPalmar his lynch of choice. Not today.
redFF doesn't look great, but I haven't touched his filter since Day 1, so I don't know. Honestly, if annul flips red you don't look so hot either VE.
Apologies for the spam, I meant to consolidate with my previous post.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:34 Risen wrote:
Reading in reverse order here. Why is it that annul giving away his shot is scum?
Why would a town aligned player give away his shot? Why not just shoot your top scum read, the one you have been pushing for days. Unless of course you know that player will flip town.
If annul was scum, could he have done anything better in this situation to clear his name, short of actually shooting a teammate? Put yourself in annuls shoes(as scum), and ask yourself what you would do to get out of the lynch?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
vader, do you think it likely that town has access to two jacks, hamstrung as they are? A Dayvig is an extraordinarly powerful tool, because it can confirm a townie and kill a mafia in one blow. I have never seen a game with two town dayvig's other than the bang bang games. It makes far more sense to balance the load by giving each team a jack.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:42 annul wrote:
thats a wrong sequence
1. palmar plays like a complete retard day 1
2. i call him out for this shit, starting on day 1
3. day 2 comes and PALMAR, in true fashion, does the OMGUS that he does every fucking game, on me this time.
4a. i defend it as best i can. . .
4b. . . . until i realize i cant stop it, so i have to claim.
So why didn't you shoot him?
I also notice that nowhere in that sequence of events does Palmar play like scum.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:40 Risen wrote:
Ok, I'm confused. Someone explain this sequence of events to me. From reading his filter, and looking at Palmar's.
Palmar accuses annul of being scum, VE accuses Palmar of being scum (shocking), annul says wtf why is everyone voting for me, Palmar gives a case on annul that isn't convincing at all, annul freaks and starts OMGUS, annul gives out his role and asks toads what to do, toads says shoot prplhz, annul shoots prplhz (I thought prplhz was scum going into d2), annul #1 lynch target in spite of being jack?
Correct me if I'm misreading things here.
The case on annul is pretty solid. I recommend you reread it. I made several additional points when I voted him.
Since voting Palmar(for a terrible reason) midway through Day 1, annul has done virtually nothing. Even today he promised a big fat post but then simply passed over his dayvig shot to a townie. Annul is putting in very little effort, something that is a hallmark of scum.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:46 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 11:39 Radfield wrote:On December 09 2011 11:34 Risen wrote:
Reading in reverse order here. Why is it that annul giving away his shot is scum? Why would a town aligned player give away his shot? Why not just shoot your top scum read, the one you have been pushing for days. Unless of course you know that player will flip town. If annul was scum, could he have done anything better in this situation to clear his name, short of actually shooting a teammate? Put yourself in annuls shoes(as scum), and ask yourself what you would do to get out of the lynch? I'm just wondering why annul is scum in this situation and v7 is town. I'm not sure your last question is fair, either. What is annul supposed to do in this situation as town? Why is his action scummy? I think it's scummy, but I think that only because I think v7's decision was scummy. I'm unvoting annul and placing it on redff. I still don't like him even AFTER reading his filter.
You're right, vader is back on the table given that we have a second Jack. But his play has been pretty green, whereas annul has been pretty red.
What is annul supposed to do in this situation as town?
He was supposed to shoot. If I was a town aligned dayvig, and I was getting hung, I would never in a million years pass off my shot to someone else. NEVER. If I had absolutely no scum reads, I would still probably take a shot, because allowing someone else to take the shot says nothing about my alignment. Add to that that the player taking the shot is very new, and you have something annul would never do.
If I actually had a scum-read, one I have pushed for days on a player who looks very unlikely to be ever be lynched, in fact this player is well known for talking his way out of lynches, that is a no-brainer. You pop in, you shoot Palmar, and you become the town hero.
Why was annul looking for a way to wash his hands. Why does toad taking the shot even make any sense. You know why annul asked the mods if he could shoot himself and modkill everyone on his wagon? Because there are no scum on the wagon, and it would be an instant GG.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:50 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 11:44 Radfield wrote:On December 09 2011 11:42 annul wrote:
thats a wrong sequence
1. palmar plays like a complete retard day 1
2. i call him out for this shit, starting on day 1
3. day 2 comes and PALMAR, in true fashion, does the OMGUS that he does every fucking game, on me this time.
4a. i defend it as best i can. . .
4b. . . . until i realize i cant stop it, so i have to claim. So why didn't you shoot him? I also notice that nowhere in that sequence of events does Palmar play like scum. Wait what? OMGUS is such scum behavior. Forcing people to act in an irrational manner is STUPID. We should have been able to be patient and Palmar has now forced two jack's out of hiding. How the hell is that pro-town?
Wait hold on. I'm not even sure what you're referring to now. Palmar did not OMGUS annul. Annul had been voting and pushing Palmar for 36 hours before the flip, at which point Palmar accused annul of being scum. An accusation that was at that time based on new information to the thread.
Palmar did NOT force annul out into the open. Palmar built a case and pushed it.
Palmar did NOT force vaderseven into the open. Palmar applied pressure to see if vader actually had notes.
Yes they both resulted in an outted jack, but the motivation from Palmar in both cases was sound.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:54 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 11:51 vaderseven wrote:
No, read my filter annul. If you cant subtlely prove you caught the problem with what I said then you are a liar. and now everyone on the red team will look at this post and my next few posts and try to find the breadcrumb. be smarter than that. lets just say it has to do with our night powers in some capacity.
On December 09 2011 11:54 vaderseven wrote:
annul is town.
Are you really serious vader. You are absolutely 100% sure that annul could not be scum?
If you are actually town annul then I have no idea what you were thinking.
On December 09 2011 11:58 redFF wrote:
rad looks bad after prplz's flip, prplhz is an easy mislynch and rad knows that. Could have been attempting to switch from annul or trying to setup another town lynch. or just wrong i guess lol.
Annul's role makes perfect sense especially with vader's matching up.
Rad how is the floridian such an obviously town role this game?
I stated several times since my case that I was warming up on prplhz.
Floridian is town because 7 votes vs 19 is overwhelming mafia favored. 6 votes vs 20 is better, but still on the mafia side of the spectrum. Not to mention floridian is neutral by definition, NOT scum favored like you are saying.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 12:06 vaderseven wrote:
Annul is TOWN. Voting him gets TOWN KILLED.
Palmar is the scummiest IMO.
Fuck it, I'm going to bed.
I'll put my vote on redFF. If someone wants to rally the troops be my guest.
I sincerely hope corrupt is scum, or we are probably at lylo tomorrow.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 22:15 Palmar wrote:
Rad was completely fucking wrong, to the point of me thinking he might be mafia.
Only thing that makes him not be mafia is the fact that he tried to lynch annul last night.
I tried Palmar, I really tried. At some point I need to trust other players though, and vader yelling that annul is town(when he has more information than me) is something I cannot combat.
I would say there is a 90% chance that one of you or me is dead tonight, but if we both live we can work it out tomorrow. Also, what was I wrong about, prplhz? I agree, and I had already mentioned several times I thought he looked better. Had I been around I would have likely pushed toad to pick erandorr(which I think would also have ended in a townie death).
TruthBringer, Risen, hyshes, redFF, sandroba, Zephirdd.
I think Risen looks decent. Zephirdd I was pretty sure was town earlier, not so sure anymore. redFF could very well be town(despite my exasperation vote last night) and isn't worth looking at just yet. Hyshes and Truthbringer could very well be scum, though both seem genuine.
sandroba I think is almost surely scum at this point. He has done nothing all game. That is not a style problem, it is a motivation problem. Dollars to donuts he still has very little to say when he returns to the thread(with excuse in hand).
Kingjames is scummy by virtue of playing a different game than the rest of us. Building cases that are obviously not going to get followed up on, refusing to have a strong opinion on any players currently up for lynch etc.
If annul flips scum then Jackal and VE need to be looked at long and hard. Neither have been willing to vote annul all game.
If annul is town then we do actually have another medic. With a either a likely jailkeeper in the mix, or if annul/vader have a medic ability, Drazerk's claim becomes complete bs. No way we have a whole bunch of protective roles with only 2 scum KP.
I won't be on at all today until 1 hour before the daypost.
No one protect annul. There is a 0% chance of him dying tonight even if he is town, because it would help us immensely on day 3.
Watcher needs to be on vader tonight. Since he can use an ability tonight he is surely going to be targeted with a roleblock or KP.
If sandro is scum and mafia have a framer, they will likely target him tonight to have him flip green. Him or annul. If you are investigating, search someone else.
Medics on Palmar, myself, vader or toad. If you want to pick your own target that is fine too though, because we need a save to keep us running.
I would say do NOT protect drazerk. Either mafia kill him and clear things up for us, or they leave him alive to keep protecting. Both situations are a win for town.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
OK, I have very little to add right now.
My feelings on annul are very strange. His play, and his actions point towards him being scum, yet there are little niggles that make me think he is town. Stuff like this:
On December 09 2011 12:20 annul wrote:
huh
v7 that actually makes a lot of sense.
maybe palmar isnt red after all
On December 09 2011 12:22 annul wrote:
lynching town gets us to lylo faster
no lynch >>>>>>>>>>> town lynch
But maybe it's just me being dumb. My brain is telling me to lynch annul, my gut tells me not to. In almost all cases my brain is more correct than my gut.
If someone shoots annul tonight that would make life unbelievably easier for town. Even if he flips town it means that almost all the non-contributors on that wagon are scum.
If anyone has any questions for me I suggest you ask them in the next 45 minutes.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
That would surprise me Kingjames 
But yeah, you're probably less likely to be mafia than I previously thought.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Upon rereading truthbringers filter, I think he is probably town. He has a lot of "scummy" comments, but I they are often over the top scummy, which leads me to believe they are red-herrings.
His general posting seems pretty decent.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I also think jackal is scum, I'm even willing to build a case this time(aren't you happy jackal). However Palmar disagrees, so I'd like to hear his thoughts if we both make it through.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
BAM, coulda called that one.
GG guys and gals.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Big thanks to Incognito and Wherebugsgo for hosting this. For my part at least, this was an extremely well run game, and I had a blast. Thanks guys.
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EPT
