TL Mafia XLVIII - Page 11

On December 12 2011 07:07 Zephirdd wrote:
*sigh* at this rate we'll end up with a no-lynch.

Just freaking kill xsksc already. annul and Drazerk are not the best lynches, they are far from it IMO. Too much uncertainty in it. redFF also feels too weird for me.

seriously, xsksc is the only choice here that is safe. Corrupt was scummy, xsksc is scum. Just do it already. Palmar, I really doubt you are lynching annul today unless scum decides to jump into it with full strength; if you are really that mad over him at least wait a day or so; We NEED this red lynch.

On December 12 2011 07:22 Jackal58 wrote:

Answer me this Palmar - If Annul is scum why didn't he just blow your head off with 1 minute left? You're dead, it forces a no-lynch. That's my hang up right now.

On December 08 2011 22:00 Palmar wrote:


You don't always catch scum in the same way. There is, for example, no traditional way of catching Kenpachi or Coagulation as scum, because they will not, regardless of their alignment, provide us with content that can be broken down and analyzed through post by post analysis.

That is not to say you can't catch people who play unconventionally as scum. While annul doesn't write long, well explained posts, no matter his alignment, it's the content and direction, as well as the intention of these posts that give a player away. I think annul is a good player, he doesn't give himself away every single post. But it's rather the overall playstyle that reeks of scum.

Let's look at why annul is scum:

For convenience, here is his entire filter: Clicky

There is not much to be had on annul's alignment from his initial posting. He is mostly correct in his thoughts, simply because arguing such mundane things as "should we use lists or not" is not something that can give away people's alignments. No matter their opinion on such things.

The first post that stuck out to me was this:



This is regarding prplhz's sentence: "Just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do our job"

Here's the deal, this is in no way a blue claim, and as soon as prplhz denies it being one, the issue should be ignored, yet even quite a bit later annul is still wondering about a trivial issue. The sentence can easily be read from the point of view of prplhz being town and "our job" referring to finding mafia, not blues using their abilities.

Why does annul want to stick with this? Because it gives him an excuse to contribute nothing, which has been a hallmark of his play this game.



What the shit is a blueslip, there is no such thing. He denied it referring to him being blue, and that should be taken at facevalue. It changes exactly nothing, annul is just staying on his road of "If I tunnel this, I don't have to contribute".

Just so I point it out, annul's vote on Drazerk, followed by his switch to Soap gives us no indication of his alignment.

Let's talk some more about how to avoid contributing and draw bad conclusions:



What has Soap's alignment to do with me? I called him my homeboy, so if I'm right I must be scum? Where's the logic here. I did not ask for Soap to be shot, the whole issue has nothing to do with me. I retracted my claim before the shot was fired, and confirmed it. The decision was a rash, bad decision from v7, against a person that I had no intention of getting shot.

As syllogism so brilliantly put it:



Of course, this doesn't stop annul with following through with his completely illogical train of thought, because that's a favorite thing of mafia, to not use logic and just run with stuff.



Now, please recheck annul's filter ( here ) and scroll down to where he votes me. Notice how sharply his contribution rate has fallen. Not only that, but there is also NO effort at scumhunting at all. He literally hasn't accused anyone of anything since he decided I was red. There is no substance. I think the closest thing was calling Jackal a moron.

He hasn't even pushed a case against me today.

The bottom line, is that in addition to the complete lack of scumhunting, the complete lack of contributions, annul claimed to have been saved by a medic, from a shot I am all but certain was fired by syllogism, makes me have a very strong feeling this guy is scum.



Notice, there is not logical reason for not listening to me, it's just the fact that because I'm aggressive and v7 panicked, I must by extension not be trusted. Annul is clinging onto the notion that disregarding me by referring to the misfired shot yesterday, he can discredit me enough so that I won't be listened to.

I'm still waiting on anything that can count as contribution from annul today.

I think it's also very bad for town to try and push the issue aside. If we allow the mafia do deflect the annul lynch onto a random townie (Radfield, I'm looking at you), we both eliminate the chance that we hit mafia today, and we cause town to be in exactly the same situation tomorrow. It's probably a better idea to lynch me, because at least that will validate everything I'm saying, not like mafia is gonna let me live after the night if annul dies.

With 15 townies alive and 6 mafia, we need 11 townies to make the correct decision. The correct decision is to lynch annul today.

I was useless on day 1, please accept this scum as a token of my regret.

Annul is mafia

##Vote annul

On December 09 2011 20:09 Palmar wrote:
Let me point this out very slowly, because seriously, that was the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a mafia game.




Annul gave his shot to a townie who had been very, very open about his read on Erandorr as scum. Annul probably counted on Toad being terrible enough to only aim the gun at Errandor, but because prplhz was town too, Annul ran with it.

Does anyone with half a brain actually think that town annul would not pick his target himself? Notice he did not even consider prplhz's alignment. Annul hasn't accused prplhz all game, he was completely fine with killing prplhz at random.

At this point, I asked annul why he didn't just shoot me? After all, he has been pushing for my death since day 1, if we can call his half-assed attempts pushing. He obviously doesn't give a shit who dies as long as it's not him.



And do you know what Annul replies with?



What the fuck?????????

The only way this sentence makes sense is if annul already knows I'll flip town. According to him I must be scum. But how does shooting scum not say anything about him?

In non-crazy-world shooting scum is one of the best ways of clearing your name. In non-crazy-world you don't randomly shoot townies to save your own hide.

Seriously, read annul's explanation of not shooting me over and over again until your useless brains understand what the fuck is going on here.

Holy shit, now I don't just have a case he's scum, the guy fucking claimed scum in the thread and didn't get lynched. I can't express how fucking mad I am at this complete and utter incompetence. What the fuck.

In other news.

Feel free to randomly kill a few people on this list: TruthBringer, Risen, hyshes, redFF, sandroba, Zephirdd.

On December 12 2011 08:05 annul wrote:


maybe because he sees what you are too blind to see?

On December 12 2011 08:07 annul wrote:
palmar: i already know what your cases are. many people have addressed them PBPA-style better than i did...

but where i give an answer to your second "case", you fail to respond. i already know your second "case." where is your response to my response?

On December 13 2011 03:17 Lanaia wrote:
Anyhow, a question...
Palmar, if someone were to inspect annul and have him show the same alignment as you, would you still tunnel?

On December 13 2011 06:51 annul wrote:
i think the thing of note is that palmar equates himself with hitler

we shouldnt trust hitler. hitler killed tons of innocents. palmar wants to kill me, an innocent.

On December 15 2011 14:11 wherebugsgo wrote:

annul the mafia Jack has been bukkaked to death!

On December 19 2011 03:09 vaderseven wrote:
jackal, reread what i said and tell me what you did wrong

On December 19 2011 06:51 prplhz wrote:
Well, I was actually referring to syllogism's "You guys will never improve"-thing. It's like when Ace made that post saying "Everybody sucks" and then just left it there, I have played like 50 games and I still suck but I only really started improving after a lot of nice people started me giving some really good advice

I think people here need to listen to the people who are considered good players a lot more (one of the advice I myself was given at some point and that drastically improved my play). Learn to get a good read on them and learn how they play and then put them in the spot light, there they will either perform or they will out themselves. Learn to read the special cases that are the experienced players first and then listen to what they have to say 'cause they're often right, or they will sound stupid, then move on to start scum hunting for real yourself. Town hunting is a lot easier I'd say Also, if one good player says something and 10 not-so-good players say something else, it's usually the good player who is right.

Dunno, I really shouldn't be giving advice but that's my take on this game. I was actually not entirely convinced about annul either, but I was very sure that Palmar was town and I was very sure that syllogism had shot annul, so that was two good players saying that a guy was definitely scum, and that very often means that he's scum.

Also, yea Drazerk you need a break from mafia I think You had a god damn mental break down this game. Totally contrary to how you played in XLVII which I enjoyed a lot

On December 19 2011 14:44 vaderseven wrote:
The sad truh is I made a hidden mistake in how I used my 2nd ability. The night that palmar died I choose to make myself a vet. Ky second choice was to doc Palmar but I didnt factor in his double vote and played with a more selfish choice instrad of the choice that had same random chance to work but gained much more for town.

I tried to recover a bit of use out of my role via wifoming a few RBs at myself. That at least worked.

I made blunderous errors on day regaurding annul thay I personally believe amount to the single most significant mistake of a town player this game. I wont justify that beyond I accidentally was operating on assumed things that were clearly not reasonable in any way to assume. My bad.

I think that raw 6 to 19 numbers of the start played into he mafai being able to risk as many members as it did and still have a viable smart path to victory. In my opinion this didnt come into play due to that they coulda risked one less member and still won but talking balance this high number of riskable players at that point in time offsets the roles given to the game.

I am way too lazy to look at it from a math % chance to win given logical ways it can play out but my mind thinks that number of starting players is as big a deal as the number of blues.

I will be sitting a game or two out as I am moving soon irl and will activily follow whatevwr games occue durinf that with a full obs mode mindset.

gg wp jackal/scum

On December 19 2011 19:21 wherebugsgo wrote:


Well, I think it's fairly obvious that people were far less likely to listen to you after you obviously lied (despite being an advocate of LaL)

There's oddly a level of trust, I've noticed, that's involved in mafia games. A lot of townies don't tend to listen to people they think they can't trust, and lying destroys that semblance of trust.

It's like dating a girl and then cheating on her. She might take you back if you're phenomenal (you know..) but then she'll always look at you weird and she'll never trust you again.

On December 19 2011 19:33 vaderseven wrote:
I agree that my play was too role focused. It is actually an insightful statement for not because the concept is new but because my play usually lacks as a blue were it is generally good as green or red.