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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
I think it's pretty clear that when someone does something, 'why?' is a far more relevant question than 'why not?' "why?" has one clear, defined answer that helps to clarify your action. "why not?" has infinite hypothetical answers that just obscure it further. So cut the crap. Why? | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On September 08 2011 00:56 sandroba wrote: Yo iGrok, if you are going to start a RVS why do you go out of your way to make it neat and make it seem justifiable? You ought to know that's no valid reason to vote, why make it seem so? I consider that a valid reason to vote. With no setup knowledge other than my own role, I'm a little on edge anyways. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On September 08 2011 04:27 bumatlarge wrote: I'm not role fishing, im simply stating that I think everyone has an ability. No one needs to counter claim that, but I half my fun in mafia is speculation. Don't think anyone should be voting anyone yet, we need 9 for a lynch, so silly accusations aren't gonna cut it 5 minutes into the game. What does needing 9 for a lynch have to do with your idea that we shouldn't be voting each other? | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On September 08 2011 02:33 GGQ wrote: I think it's pretty clear that when someone does something, 'why?' is a far more relevant question than 'why not?' "why?" has one clear, defined answer that helps to clarify your action. "why not?" has infinite hypothetical answers that just obscure it further. So cut the crap. Why? Calm down broski. It's very simple. When reacting to an accusation, townies tend to point out flaws with the accusation, since they know the accusation is wrong. Scum tend to try and shift the blame elsewhere, since they know the accusation is right. if my vote didn't count since it was before Ace's post (although after 13KST), I'll re-write it here again. ##vote:ggq | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On September 08 2011 05:56 Curu wrote: What does needing 9 for a lynch have to do with your idea that we shouldn't be voting each other? I yes I forgot this is TL where we know the mafia team based off literally one sentence, and then taking what someone says and changing it to something completely different. All while thinking you are helping town. Did I say we shouldn't be voting each other? I know "yet" is a small word, but I would hope people would look for keywords in sentences that change their meanings. Apparently not. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On September 08 2011 06:06 JeeJee wrote: Calm down broski. It's very simple. When reacting to an accusation, townies tend to point out flaws with the accusation, since they know the accusation is wrong. Scum tend to try and shift the blame elsewhere, since they know the accusation is right. if my vote didn't count since it was before Ace's post (although after 13KST), I'll re-write it here again. ##vote:ggq Here you transformed "idle speculation" into "rolefishing". Bum: I think everyone has a role GGQ: 4 mafia; I agree JeeJee: rolefishing ? But then GGQ, instead of pointing this out, points a finger at me for something he initially agreed with. Congratulations! You found an "Inconsistency"! ##vote:ggq | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
You have a lot of "people misrepresented and twisted words, they're scum" in your posts but you're doing the exact same thing. GGQ did not point any finger at you, he was asking JeeJee why he chose to vote GGQ instead of you. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On September 08 2011 07:01 Curu wrote: I'm still wondering why 9 votes to lynch means we shouldn't be voting anyone yet. You have a lot of "people misrepresented and twisted words, they're scum" in your posts but you're doing the exact same thing. GGQ did not point any finger at you, he was asking JeeJee why he chose to vote GGQ instead of you. I'm not going to waste energy explaining why votes in the first 2 minutes aren't helpful, you can achieve the same amount of pressure just talking about someone. GGQ could have pointed out that what he was doing was not rolefishing. Instead he gave an excuse about how he shouldn't be the focus. He had no intention of standing behind what he said if it brought focus on him, and in that JeeJee is completely justified in voting for him. And I've already stated that I disagree with JeeJee voting ggq early, because it was a vote based on nothing, an early vote with no reasoning behind it, which we shouldn't be doing. Now it's a solid vote and I will join him. Nothing was twisted in GGQ's post. He could have stood behind what he said, but now he's making it perfect obvious that there will be legitimate reasons for voting him. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On September 08 2011 06:27 bumatlarge wrote: Here you transformed "idle speculation" into "rolefishing". Bum: I think everyone has a role GGQ: 4 mafia; I agree JeeJee: rolefishing ? But then GGQ, instead of pointing this out, points a finger at me for something he initially agreed with. Congratulations! You found an "Inconsistency"! ##vote:ggq I'm going to go over all this again, just so it's clear to everyone in this game. 1) bumatlarge speculates before the game starts that everyone has an ability, providing no reasoning 2) I agree and provide some reasoning. I still stand by this post and don't think that it's scummy 3) JeeJee accuses me (or both me and bum? he isnt clear) of rolefishing and votes for me. 4) I did not address his accusation of rolefishing. I think it's silly, because I think it's clear that I wasn't rolefishing and I'm unconcerned by this vote. 5) I ask JeeJee why he chose to vote and accuse me instead of bum, since that seems completely arbitrary to me. I want to know his reasoning; I want him to explain himself so that the town can better judge both me and him. I want things clearly spelled out in the thread. 6) JeeJee responds with "Why not?" I've already explained why this is a terrible answer. It doesn't help with clarifying anything, and it only leads to more confusion and obfuscation, which is distinctly anti-town. 7) JeeJee tells me to "calm down". Nothing in my post indicates that I'm not calm. He is trying to make it seem like I'm getting defensive/emotional when I don't believe that my post indicates anything like that; it's just cold reasoning. 8) JeeJee then says "It's very simple. etc" as though he's responding to my question of "Why?" He then gives his explanation that townies point out flaws in accusations while scum try to shift blame. a) First of all, this explanation has some truth but it's improperly applied. I was not trying to shift blame. I was not trying to FOS or divert suspicion to bumatlarge. In fact, I was doing exactly what he says townies do; I pointed out that the accusation was flawed because it was arbitrary and poorly explained (even though I gave him an opportunity to explain it). b) Secondly, this is not an answer to my question of "why?" His explanation is basically that my question of "why" is the answer to itself; the answer to "why did you vote for me instead of bum" is because I asked that question. Clearly this is circular reasoning. JeeJee, you still haven't answered why you voted/accused me instead of bum. 9) then bum jumps on the bandwagon against me based on the incorrect assumption that I was pointing fingers at him. Curious how bum and JeeJee are interacting here... To sum up, JeeJee and bum have been misinterpreting and misrepresenting me. This is something that is done either by scum trying to lead a mislynch or by townies who fail at reading comprehension. Which one are you guys? | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On September 08 2011 07:18 bumatlarge wrote: I'm not going to waste energy explaining why votes in the first 2 minutes aren't helpful, you can achieve the same amount of pressure just talking about someone. GGQ could have pointed out that what he was doing was not rolefishing. Instead he gave an excuse about how he shouldn't be the focus. He had no intention of standing behind what he said if it brought focus on him, and in that JeeJee is completely justified in voting for him. And I've already stated that I disagree with JeeJee voting ggq early, because it was a vote based on nothing, an early vote with no reasoning behind it, which we shouldn't be doing. Now it's a solid vote and I will join him. Nothing was twisted in GGQ's post. He could have stood behind what he said, but now he's making it perfect obvious that there will be legitimate reasons for voting him. At what point did you think I was backing off of what I said? Did you think that from reading my post? Or from reading JeeJee's post? | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On September 08 2011 02:59 iGrok wrote: I consider that a valid reason to vote. With no setup knowledge other than my own role, I'm a little on edge anyways. iGrok, your second post here exhibits the same behavior that sandroba called you out for in your first post. sandroba points out that you are going out of your way to justify yourself in your first post. You are doing the same thing here again, by saying that you are "on edge" and explaining why. Why are you trying to justify yourself so much? Are you nervous? | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On September 08 2011 07:32 GGQ wrote: I'm going to go over all this again, just so it's clear to everyone in this game. 1) bumatlarge speculates before the game starts that everyone has an ability, providing no reasoning 2) I agree and provide some reasoning. I still stand by this post and don't think that it's scummy 3) JeeJee accuses me (or both me and bum? he isnt clear) of rolefishing and votes for me. 4) I did not address his accusation of rolefishing. I think it's silly, because I think it's clear that I wasn't rolefishing and I'm unconcerned by this vote. 5) I ask JeeJee why he chose to vote and accuse me instead of bum, since that seems completely arbitrary to me. I want to know his reasoning; I want him to explain himself so that the town can better judge both me and him. I want things clearly spelled out in the thread. 6) JeeJee responds with "Why not?" I've already explained why this is a terrible answer. It doesn't help with clarifying anything, and it only leads to more confusion and obfuscation, which is distinctly anti-town. 7) JeeJee tells me to "calm down". Nothing in my post indicates that I'm not calm. He is trying to make it seem like I'm getting defensive/emotional when I don't believe that my post indicates anything like that; it's just cold reasoning. 8) JeeJee then says "It's very simple. etc" as though he's responding to my question of "Why?" He then gives his explanation that townies point out flaws in accusations while scum try to shift blame. a) First of all, this explanation has some truth but it's improperly applied. I was not trying to shift blame. I was not trying to FOS or divert suspicion to bumatlarge. In fact, I was doing exactly what he says townies do; I pointed out that the accusation was flawed because it was arbitrary and poorly explained (even though I gave him an opportunity to explain it). b) Secondly, this is not an answer to my question of "why?" His explanation is basically that my question of "why" is the answer to itself; the answer to "why did you vote for me instead of bum" is because I asked that question. Clearly this is circular reasoning. JeeJee, you still haven't answered why you voted/accused me instead of bum. 9) then bum jumps on the bandwagon against me based on the incorrect assumption that I was pointing fingers at him. Curious how bum and JeeJee are interacting here... To sum up, JeeJee and bum have been misinterpreting and misrepresenting me. This is something that is done either by scum trying to lead a mislynch or by townies who fail at reading comprehension. Which one are you guys? Yeah, no. First, you're trying to shift blame yet again, except this time it's on me. Cute, but it ain't gonna fly. Second, you are getting emotional and defensive, hence the 'calm down'. I don't think calm people say 'cut the crap' -- it's people who get frustrated. And I think I know why you're frustrated. Second, no, your answer did not point out the flaw in my vote. Compare these two responses, both to the same accusation: Hm, if you think that's rolefishing, why vote for me and not bum, who brought it up first? I'm not role fishing, im simply stating that I think everyone has an ability. No one needs to counter claim that, but I half my fun in mafia is speculation. Don't think anyone should be voting anyone yet, we need 9 for a lynch, so silly accusations aren't gonna cut it 5 minutes into the game. Which one of these is shifting the blame and which one of these is pointing out the problem with the accusation? Third, if you haven't figured it out, my vote on you obviously wasn't based on anything as it was the beginning of the game. Hence the 'why not'. As per your reaction though, I'm quite happy to have it remain where it is. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
JeeJee though. His analysis of the 'cut the crap' bit. GGQ is so obviously trying to look like a "no screwing around" type of player and talking like this is part of his tough image. Yet JeeJee is trying to twist this into being emotional and crumbling under pressure. Fake, pompous - yes. But GGQ was acting like this before the accusation. He used the same tone to reply to me when he didn't have to defend himself because I accused JeeJee and Bumatlarge. I find it suspicious that a good player such as JeeJee doesn't notice such things, especially when there was less than one page to analyse. On September 08 2011 08:04 sandroba wrote: xfttfc whose behaviour day1 is 100% different than mafia xliv. If by that you mean that I'm not showing any signs of protecting mafia as a medic this game, then yes, my behaviour is 100% different. I am wiser now, having played one game is better than having played no games at all.  On a serious note, the problem with your argument is that I got into trouble in XLIV precisely because of the very same behaviour: accusing four players in no time. The only thing you can read in this is that I'm a bad player but this is something we all know. Anyway, it is easy to be active if you're mafia at this point, which means that being quiet becomes just as easy. The sooner the arbitrary one-line accusations transition into something better structured, the better - and if it takes a cocky quasi-trollish post that annoys some townies, well, it's worth it anyway. | ||
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
On September 08 2011 07:32 GGQ wrote: I'm going to go over all this again, just so it's clear to everyone in this game. 1) bumatlarge speculates before the game starts that everyone has an ability, providing no reasoning 2) I agree and provide some reasoning. I still stand by this post and don't think that it's scummy 3) JeeJee accuses me (or both me and bum? he isnt clear) of rolefishing and votes for me. 4) I did not address his accusation of rolefishing. I think it's silly, because I think it's clear that I wasn't rolefishing and I'm unconcerned by this vote. 5) I ask JeeJee why he chose to vote and accuse me instead of bum, since that seems completely arbitrary to me. I want to know his reasoning; I want him to explain himself so that the town can better judge both me and him. I want things clearly spelled out in the thread. 6) JeeJee responds with "Why not?" I've already explained why this is a terrible answer. It doesn't help with clarifying anything, and it only leads to more confusion and obfuscation, which is distinctly anti-town. 7) JeeJee tells me to "calm down". Nothing in my post indicates that I'm not calm. He is trying to make it seem like I'm getting defensive/emotional when I don't believe that my post indicates anything like that; it's just cold reasoning. 8) JeeJee then says "It's very simple. etc" as though he's responding to my question of "Why?" He then gives his explanation that townies point out flaws in accusations while scum try to shift blame. a) First of all, this explanation has some truth but it's improperly applied. I was not trying to shift blame. I was not trying to FOS or divert suspicion to bumatlarge. In fact, I was doing exactly what he says townies do; I pointed out that the accusation was flawed because it was arbitrary and poorly explained (even though I gave him an opportunity to explain it). b) Secondly, this is not an answer to my question of "why?" His explanation is basically that my question of "why" is the answer to itself; the answer to "why did you vote for me instead of bum" is because I asked that question. Clearly this is circular reasoning. JeeJee, you still haven't answered why you voted/accused me instead of bum. 9) then bum jumps on the bandwagon against me based on the incorrect assumption that I was pointing fingers at him. Curious how bum and JeeJee are interacting here... To sum up, JeeJee and bum have been misinterpreting and misrepresenting me. This is something that is done either by scum trying to lead a mislynch or by townies who fail at reading comprehension. Which one are you guys? This is a big heaping dose of OMGUS. Your entire argument is based on the fact that JeeJee has accused you and apparently misunderstood some of your behavior. You end it with a noncommittal statement and don't even bother voting for someone you just accused of being scum. Oh wait, you accused bum as well by association. You're looking like a good first lynch right about now. | ||
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