TL Mafia XLIII

On August 02 2011 07:26 Mig wrote:
No just tell the vigs who to hit, medics who to protect, dts who to check. All he has to do is make sure nobody is overlapping or shooting each other. As long as the day vig doesn't reveal anything else mafia isn't going to gain very much information from it.

On August 02 2011 08:22 Curu wrote:


1. Why is that important? And how does that have any effect on the plan?
2. Well good, they stack hits and kill less people then. There's no net loss from confirming a Townie.
3. Vig is shooting who we were going to lynch anyways, so if that person was a Doctor then they were dead either way.
4. See point 3.
5. This forces Mafia to fake their claims, and every role in the OP is easily confirmable, giving more chances to find scum slipping.

On August 02 2011 08:25 sandroba wrote:
How is that going to keep discussion focused on blues? We'll have 2 lynches to discuss and basically skip night 1. If you say it's rare to hit mafia that way day1 it's exactly the same way as a day1 lynch and we go straight into the next lynch with info from the flip/wagons.

On August 02 2011 09:01 Lucidity wrote:

How will he figure out who the other vig shots are aimed at? How will a fake medic find out who the other medics are protecting? Who said the plan is faultless?

I think I'll take your advice and vote for you!

##vote redFF

---

If there isn't a great candidate for day vig I agree with heist's Day 2 proposal. We don't really want to use our vigi's and hatters on Night 1 anyway, do we? Confirmed townie might be more effective on Day 2. The only problem is the risk of losing him on Night 1...

On August 02 2011 09:20 chaos13 wrote:
DrH has the right idea here. Yes, confirmed townies are excellent. However, mafia can easily fake claim a role like medic or vig, and then we would need to waste our DT checks in order to confirm those claims. Not only that, but we have no idea who the day vig actually is. If it's in the hands of a weaker player, that could lead to complete and utter disaster. Having one player coordinate all the actions of the blues is never a good thing. There is far too much room for error in such a situation, especially since mafia are able to PM and influence the game as well. Ultimately, however, it is up to the individuals with the roles to decide what to do. Discussion about this is very good, but I would rather not waste all day with it. Just something to keep in mind if we're still arguing about it in 24 hours.



Vigis, because there are probably a lot of you in here: Do not shoot unless it is at confirmed scum. If you feel you must shoot anyway, take out lurkers and liars. This sort of common sense is all too often ignored, and results in dead town. Even take DT claims with a grain of salt. If analysis points to a player being town when a claimed check has shown red, proceed with caution. It could be a miller or a scum's fake claim in order to waste a vig shot, especially if the claimed DT player has been under suspicion.

On August 02 2011 09:29 Varpulis wrote:

Anybody who is publicly known to be controlling the blues/leading the town is going to get shot eventually, especially if they've got kp.

I'll eat my hat if we've got more than 1 medic in a 20 player game.

On August 03 2011 04:25 OriginalName wrote:


Role fishing more?

I also want to call out Drazerk.

He votes RedFF1 for shoddy reasoning and then disappears off the face of the earth. Also YM that quick jump onto Red was also kinda suspicous (ie one-liner + vote) and seems like your trying to start a really early bandwagon. Care to explain?

On August 03 2011 04:49 Lucidity wrote:

Lol dude wtf? I'm struggling to find any non-scum motive for wanting such a claim. Could you provide me with one?

And you're focused on maintaining your appearance as an active townie instead of hunting scum? Good stuff.

---

Mig's going crazy at people for not providing great posts on IRC, yet he's not doing what he's hounding others to do? Scum often employ such strategies. What's the dealio, yo?

On August 03 2011 04:53 Mig wrote:
I have a pretty simple defense. People should actually read my posts. Where have I backed down after putting pressure on people? What mafia objectives have I pushed? Look at the questions I asked varp and JeeJee. Was I trying to slander them or cast suspicion on them to look like I was fake contributing? Or was I asking legitimate questions that the town should be asking.

The town has almost no activity and I am actively trying to get people to post in IRC. What a scummy thing for me to do! I have pmd half the people in town asking them for their opinions. And I have no problem with giving my opinions on people. No one has to force me to contribute.

So just ask yourself if my play is helping the town or helping mafia. If you think I am helping mafia feel free to lynch me.

On August 03 2011 04:56 Mig wrote:


Feel free to find someone who has contributed more than I have in the thread.

On August 03 2011 05:10 Lucidity wrote:

Where was I asking for public role claims? "lmao"

And I think you're mistaking my criticism of bad reasons to shut down the plan as support. Like I mentioned earlier, I was operating under the wrong assumption of mass blues. We likely don't have that many so the plan isn't as sexy as I initially thought it was. While there are valid reasons to oppose the plan, some people were presenting atrocious ones seemingly for the sole reason of stopping it - whether there was merit to it or not.

On August 03 2011 05:12 Lucidity wrote:
YM and others:

Can you please stop going on about a mass roleclaim TO A CONFIRMED TOWNIE being a bad thing? It's getting tiresome.

On August 03 2011 05:24 OriginalName wrote:

Then lets start disscussing lynch options.

I like Varpulis for the D1 lynch. Im going to read up on Mig afterwords.

Varpulis:

-Wishy-washy
-Rolefishing ESPECIALLY under the circumstances of this role-fish.
-Says hes going to PM lurkers to try to maintain activity, decides to back down from it.
-His first game post is really generic wanting to contribute without really contributing general advice post. He also puts a picture of a BLU engineer as if hes trying to establish his innocence.
-Defends himself with Meta instead of hard facts.

On August 03 2011 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Yeah, I hated his first day post. I'd be down with lynching Varpulis Day 1, his posts are long but basically say nothing at all and he is wishy washy as hell. This might just be that he is a bad townie because he did say this fits his town meta? I've never played with him before in my memory so I don't know.

I like syllogism. He's parroting mig_ without directly acknowleding him and as soon as I called him out he sent me a PM that came off as a big attempt to diffuse my aggression toward him when he was being antagonistic to me before. Now that I'm actually voting for him maybe he's sweating.

On August 04 2011 07:36 JeeJee wrote:
lol, i was planning to go with http://www.nelsonhaha.com/ @ minii post-flip

surprising, although the flip doesn't make the argument against varp any less shitty

On August 03 2011 21:30 Curu wrote:
That's why I said somewhat youngminii.

Another note on Varpulis, he posted an analysis on redFF that used pretty much the exact same words and reasoning as something I brainstormed on Skype, so if he flips red then certainly someone in my Skype circle is also red.

There's the chance that we just saw the exact same thing but I don't think it that likely since a lot of what I was saying came from IRC and I don't think he was even in there at the time (but I don't remember exactly).

On August 04 2011 07:39 JeeJee wrote:
no, i don't. perhaps your majesty can enlighten me.

as far as i see, it's the same argument as was against redff, except with pointless meta thrown in. correct me?

On August 04 2011 07:48 Mig wrote:
BC/sandroba/syllo/myself/curu were all in a skype circle.

On August 04 2011 08:25 Curu wrote:


He parroted me. I said the case against redFF, and Varpulis posted the exact same wording a bit later.

Also FoS on draz for calling redff(whom i dont have a read either way on) scum just for defending himself. you say only scum would defend themselves that much so early when even a vanilla townie wouldnt want to die. and maybe a VT might not care enough but what about blue roles. draz is either being scummy or isnt thinking about what defending yourself means.

filter
I think we should wait untill the mafia can not kill our confirmed town right away to use the plan or we have enough suspicious people that we can use our vigi hits instead of just shooting because we can. whats the point in having a confirmed town that will most likely die when his orders on who to hit will most likely just be guesses?

I agree with the draz lynch because i FOS'd him earlier

On August 04 2011 10:43 Sevryn wrote:

I see a large amount of people who take flip flopping as a scum tell so I was trying to be stronger in my convictions.

Kill me based purely off of meta?

On August 04 2011 11:37 ghrur wrote:


Idk what BC's up to to be honest.

On August 05 2011 07:45 Lucidity wrote:
Please do not claim to Mig.

On August 06 2011 04:59 Sevryn wrote:

What makes you trust DrH over BC and JeeJee I think they are all very suspect

<mig__> you see jeejee voted for himself lol
<DoctorHelvetica> trying not to give anything away
<DoctorHelvetica> the more he argues
<DoctorHelvetica> he might just implicate someone else
<mig__> yea I agree lol
<mig__> if I were medic and someone pulled this on me
<mig__> I would be like wtf which one of those fuckers is lying
<mig__> he is just like oh well kill me
<mig__> it makes no sense for a townie lol

On August 06 2011 06:17 Barundar wrote:

Sevrin the problem is you are the most invisible poster in the thread, I can't remember anything of your stances or posts, neither good or bad. If you are town you should try and be more active and involved.

For an example you could look into YM and chaos13?

On August 06 2011 08:52 Kenpachi wrote:
k i believe JeeJee is scum, no doubts. I am completely not sure on who the other scums are anymore though.

Question to mig, if JeeJee flips red, how does it confirm BC/DrH?

##vote JeeJee

On August 06 2011 11:19 youngminii wrote:
ok so when jeejee flips green can we kill bc?

On August 07 2011 05:38 Munk-E wrote:
The epic fight between DrH and BC for who the real medic is commences!

I would like to mention that the reason I am doing this is NOT because I think jeejee is innocent, I absolutely think he is Mafia, I just don't see how voting or analysis would help since he's in the vast majority of votes already. Since we have already figured out there is only going to be 1 medic, I am trying to figure out which of DrH or BloodyC0bbler is mafia.

The first thing to note is that BC didn't vote for varp day 1. DrH DID change to varpulis, but only after the score was 6 to 3 with varp leading. I realize this was before the super big bandwagon vote, but for all I know, DrH could have seen that as the opportune time to switch to avoid suspicion. It does seem like the perfect time and he is experienced at this game i hear.

As for this vote, They both are voting for JeeJee. However BC voted for him near last after it was obvious he was going to be killed no matter what practically. He qualified doing this by saying he forgot to vote. I'm not sure how much I believe this. Meanwhile DrH voted at a modestly normal time. Almost TOO normal, like right in the middle again, where bandwagon hopping wasn't an issue.

BC put a lot of pressure on JeeJee this round BEFORE the mass voting really began! He did vote for JeeJee last time too, so he could quite easily just be sticking to his guns! DrH however states that he often changes his mind. What I find weird about DrH is that he's never really accusing anyone. He frequently cites other people as his arguments against who he's lynching. I'm guessing since he's a veteran player, he feels comfortable just talking in the thread. A lot of his posts don't contribute at all. Furthermore, he seems to be trying to run the game. It feels like he's currently in a state where no one really suspects him at all due to activity. The only other mafia game I played iGrok did the same thing and he was regarded the same way. He ended up being GF.

In the end, BC has been after jeejee since the he first attacked him. He has continued to add (Rather compelling) evidence against jeejee. I think he did just forget to vote. While he's here proving his case, DrH is content to just blend in and appear active. For these reasons I am compelled to think DrH knew when to jump on the bandwagons. It is a close call, but in the end i think BloodyC0bbler is the real medic.

##vote DoctorHelvetica

On August 07 2011 06:13 Munk-E wrote:
First and foremost, may I say, SWEET! GF! HECK YEAH!

Next I would like to say that, unless someone has a better plan, I recommend both alleged medics protect each other. That way, we can either have a dead medic and a confirmed mafia, or an alive medic.

On August 07 2011 06:15 syllogism wrote:
Don't tell who is going to protect whom, just make sure one of the medics is protecting mig and one is protecting the other

On August 07 2011 06:29 Munk-E wrote:

I still don't completely buy that there's 2 medics. How do I know that you're not mafia, and you convince BC to protect you and lynch BC, or vice versa? Or you could kill mig and say BC was supposed to protect him.

On August 07 2011 12:17 youngminii wrote:
yeah ok just vig me
clearly i'm being counter productive to town and i don't want day 3 to just be "yeah kill ym no discussion"

sorry folks, will try better next time <3

On August 08 2011 12:07 chaos13 wrote:
wtf is going on here.

So we unexpectedly have majority lynch and a shortened phase and Munk flipped vet? Well then we really need to start looking at those other vet claims