TL Mafia XLIII
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really don't see a situation where we'd use a dayvig today i say we keep that discussion off the table unless something ridiculous happens like two obvious mafia slipups. | ||
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On August 02 2011 07:26 Mig wrote: No just tell the vigs who to hit, medics who to protect, dts who to check. All he has to do is make sure nobody is overlapping or shooting each other. As long as the day vig doesn't reveal anything else mafia isn't going to gain very much information from it. if this happens which i hope it doesnt i really hope you're not suggesting he openly tells the blues what to do in irc/thread | ||
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1. we dont know if there are more than 1 doctor which is kinda important 2. mafia can stack hits to kill the vig 3. vig could shoot doctor ruining everything 4. vig will probably hit town its rare you get a mafia on day 1 much less a successful day 1 vig here ar emore reasons i havent provided yet 5. mafia can use this to keep town focused on the blue network/suspicious of other peoples claims and put attention on the vig and off of post analysis which is what wins games for town what do you consider a real reason it would be nice if instead of unconditional instant support for someone elses plan which is mildly suspicious you read my posts and if my reasons aren't good enough at least say why instead of just saying "youre scum" lol "we've already found 2 scum" its day 1 dont be ridiculous | ||
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On August 02 2011 08:22 Curu wrote: 1. Why is that important? And how does that have any effect on the plan? 2. Well good, they stack hits and kill less people then. There's no net loss from confirming a Townie. 3. Vig is shooting who we were going to lynch anyways, so if that person was a Doctor then they were dead either way. 4. See point 3. 5. This forces Mafia to fake their claims, and every role in the OP is easily confirmable, giving more chances to find scum slipping. huge net loss lol 1. because 1 doctor protection is surpassable by 1 mafia stack 2. no its not good because now we have likely two townies dead at the town hands on day 1 for no reason as the "confirmed townie" is killed after wasting a town KP it's actually a pretty horrible first day and night for town 3. ok does that mean we're passing on the first day lynch is that even possible 5. vets and doctors are easy to fake imo because you cant confirm a doctor by town means without wasting a town kp which isnt worth it | ||
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On August 02 2011 08:25 sandroba wrote: How is that going to keep discussion focused on blues? We'll have 2 lynches to discuss and basically skip night 1. If you say it's rare to hit mafia that way day1 it's exactly the same way as a day1 lynch and we go straight into the next lynch with info from the flip/wagons. so we should kill more townies to get more information? the best thing to do imo is save the town kp for the end when it becomes safer to use, that's how games get won lol' it isnt a skip night 1 simple mafia stack hits on vig ruining everything no wthere are probably 3 dead townies and a wasted town kill power thats a great plan i support it 100%..... | ||
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On August 02 2011 09:01 Lucidity wrote: How will he figure out who the other vig shots are aimed at? How will a fake medic find out who the other medics are protecting? Who said the plan is faultless? I think I'll take your advice and vote for you! ##vote redFF If there isn't a great candidate for day vig I agree with heist's Day 2 proposal. We don't really want to use our vigi's and hatters on Night 1 anyway, do we? Confirmed townie might be more effective on Day 2. The only problem is the risk of losing him on Night 1... What about night 2 makes a dayvig safer lol | ||
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On August 02 2011 09:20 chaos13 wrote: DrH has the right idea here. Yes, confirmed townies are excellent. However, mafia can easily fake claim a role like medic or vig, and then we would need to waste our DT checks in order to confirm those claims. Not only that, but we have no idea who the day vig actually is. If it's in the hands of a weaker player, that could lead to complete and utter disaster. Having one player coordinate all the actions of the blues is never a good thing. There is far too much room for error in such a situation, especially since mafia are able to PM and influence the game as well. Ultimately, however, it is up to the individuals with the roles to decide what to do. Discussion about this is very good, but I would rather not waste all day with it. Just something to keep in mind if we're still arguing about it in 24 hours. Vigis, because there are probably a lot of you in here: Do not shoot unless it is at confirmed scum. If you feel you must shoot anyway, take out lurkers and liars. This sort of common sense is all too often ignored, and results in dead town. Even take DT claims with a grain of salt. If analysis points to a player being town when a claimed check has shown red, proceed with caution. It could be a miller or a scum's fake claim in order to waste a vig shot, especially if the claimed DT player has been under suspicion. has nothing to do with fake claims in fact the fake mafia claims are the only part of the plan that i like that i think would be advantageous too bad the day vig will just get smoked night 1 and none of this will matter | ||
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On August 02 2011 09:29 Varpulis wrote: Anybody who is publicly known to be controlling the blues/leading the town is going to get shot eventually, especially if they've got kp. I'll eat my hat if we've got more than 1 medic in a 20 player game. why on earth would you support this plan in that case | ||
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On August 03 2011 04:25 OriginalName wrote: Role fishing more? I also want to call out Drazerk. He votes RedFF1 for shoddy reasoning and then disappears off the face of the earth. Also YM that quick jump onto Red was also kinda suspicous (ie one-liner + vote) and seems like your trying to start a really early bandwagon. Care to explain? Unless I'm misunderstanding Varpulis he was opposed to the plan in the first place so why would he ask for an open claim? | ||
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On August 03 2011 04:49 Lucidity wrote: Lol dude wtf? I'm struggling to find any non-scum motive for wanting such a claim. Could you provide me with one? And you're focused on maintaining your appearance as an active townie instead of hunting scum? Good stuff. Mig's going crazy at people for not providing great posts on IRC, yet he's not doing what he's hounding others to do? Scum often employ such strategies. What's the dealio, yo? hey aren't you the one that was supporting this plan the most lol why are you taking the easy call out on varpulis for rolefishing when you were basically asking for the same thing lmfao | ||
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On August 03 2011 04:53 Mig wrote: I have a pretty simple defense. People should actually read my posts. Where have I backed down after putting pressure on people? What mafia objectives have I pushed? Look at the questions I asked varp and JeeJee. Was I trying to slander them or cast suspicion on them to look like I was fake contributing? Or was I asking legitimate questions that the town should be asking. The town has almost no activity and I am actively trying to get people to post in IRC. What a scummy thing for me to do! I have pmd half the people in town asking them for their opinions. And I have no problem with giving my opinions on people. No one has to force me to contribute. So just ask yourself if my play is helping the town or helping mafia. If you think I am helping mafia feel free to lynch me. youre asking everyone to contribute but you aren't contributing anything except bad arguments in irc | ||
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On August 03 2011 04:56 Mig wrote: Feel free to find someone who has contributed more than I have in the thread. me | ||
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Look. The most LIKELY scenario (not 100% but very likely) is that we lynch a town and the dayvig kills a town. MAfia can afford to waste the KP to stack on the dayvig because they come out pretty ahead in this situation. Mafia gain: 3 town deaths A broken town circle wasting the day 1 discussion on the dayvig plan town loses: 1 KP to use later 3 townies So the dayvig should lay low and use his KP when we have a good idea about who the mafia team is. A solid DT check later in the game, etc. If there are double lynches in this game (idr if there are) we have the potential to kill 3 mafia in a day, dayvig is so strong later in the game. mig and syllogism are trying to make it sound like it doesn't matter WHEN the dayvig uses his shot and that's shockingly bad play. Mig has been playing for a while he's not this dumb. IDK who syllogism is so i could figure this is his first game and he just has no idea what he's doing but he's being so antagonistic to me in irc that i bet he's mafia, my votes on him becuase syllog/mig are saying the same shit without directly acknolweding eachother much and it's all anti town | ||
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On August 03 2011 05:10 Lucidity wrote: Where was I asking for public role claims? "lmao" And I think you're mistaking my criticism of bad reasons to shut down the plan as support. Like I mentioned earlier, I was operating under the wrong assumption of mass blues. We likely don't have that many so the plan isn't as sexy as I initially thought it was. While there are valid reasons to oppose the plan, some people were presenting atrocious ones seemingly for the sole reason of stopping it - whether there was merit to it or not. the dayvig plan is a public roleclaim plan. i didn't see the post where you redacted your support so my bad im not paying as much attention to the thread as I really should i've been busy . | ||
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On August 03 2011 05:12 Lucidity wrote: YM and others: Can you please stop going on about a mass roleclaim TO A CONFIRMED TOWNIE being a bad thing? It's getting tiresome. it is bad considering the circumstances. the confirmed townie isn't safe and it is at the expense of wasting a KP. Like I said, the mafia will simply kill this confirmed townie with a stacked hit, it's totally worth it from a mafia perspective. This is very different from a pair of masons, or something like that. | ||
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On August 03 2011 05:24 OriginalName wrote: Then lets start disscussing lynch options. I like Varpulis for the D1 lynch. Im going to read up on Mig afterwords. Varpulis: -Wishy-washy -Rolefishing ESPECIALLY under the circumstances of this role-fish. -Says hes going to PM lurkers to try to maintain activity, decides to back down from it. -His first game post is really generic wanting to contribute without really contributing general advice post. He also puts a picture of a BLU engineer as if hes trying to establish his innocence. -Defends himself with Meta instead of hard facts. Yeah, I hated his first day post. I'd be down with lynching Varpulis Day 1, his posts are long but basically say nothing at all and he is wishy washy as hell. This might just be that he is a bad townie because he did say this fits his town meta? I've never played with him before in my memory so I don't know. I like syllogism. He's parroting mig_ without directly acknowleding him and as soon as I called him out he sent me a PM that came off as a big attempt to diffuse my aggression toward him when he was being antagonistic to me before. Now that I'm actually voting for him maybe he's sweating. [quote]Original Mesage From DoctorHelvetica: weird why didn't you mention that before then [quote]Original Message From syllogism: The only reason I pmed you was because I felt bad about you quitting the game for such a trivial reason and really thought you were upset about it [quote]Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: what was the point [quote]Original Message From syllogism: That wasn't the intention, why would it be [quote]Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: ok this pm did nothing for you [quote]Original Message From syllogism: Well you were being antagonistic too =P [quote]Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: its a bad plan because the mafia will kill the dayvig, that's the best action at night 1 for them considering there are probably already 2 dead townies if the plan goes through the mafia know that. this isn't a mason role, there is no way to do it in secret thats why its bad. we aren't going to win this game through a mass claim plan, it isn't designed for that to really be a possibility i'm ma dbecause you were being antagonistic and calling me stupid and then twisting my argument and making it sound like im saying things im not lol [quote]Original Message From syllogism: I fully understand your point and in fact as you can see in the thread I've stated I believe it's better to wait until later for the mass claim, precisely due to the lack of information (things might have been different if the thread was more active). However, simply saying it's a bad plan because the vig will always be more accurate later isn't sufficient as there are other things that have to be taken into account; for instance the likelihood of the vig dying and the effect of postponing the information gained from mass claim until a later date. I don't know why you get so mad about this.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote] | ||
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On August 03 2011 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Yeah, I hated his first day post. I'd be down with lynching Varpulis Day 1, his posts are long but basically say nothing at all and he is wishy washy as hell. This might just be that he is a bad townie because he did say this fits his town meta? I've never played with him before in my memory so I don't know. I like syllogism. He's parroting mig_ without directly acknowleding him and as soon as I called him out he sent me a PM that came off as a big attempt to diffuse my aggression toward him when he was being antagonistic to me before. Now that I'm actually voting for him maybe he's sweating. | ||
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mafia will lurk/not post but they pay attentiont oe verythin thats going on thats an important thing to consider | ||
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" Day 1 with the little discussion overall we have had and the options, I would rather remove someone who isn't contributing positively but avoiding the modkill and being replaced by a player who would actually play." Does this sort of play fit his town meta as well? I was just looking at the most recent numbered normal game so I'm not sure. | ||
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I don't know how many games you've played Curu, or played with me, but if you look at my meta this is how I play. I change my mind a lot and I have a problem with stating my opinion right away before I settle on something which makes me look really wishy washy. I need to be less impulsive and post less, new players always think I'm scum. But we need to understand changing your mind is NOT a scumtell at all. I just have a haphazard way of posting I guess, it isn't helpful and I need to clean it up. youngminii tunnels stupid shit as town too and while I think he has decent reasons to suspect mig, using a lynch/dayvig shot on mig would be a terrible idea which I never supported. But this fits both of his metas, strongly. I think mig would make a good DT check and I think in this game the DT's are better off checking the dangerous players unless they have a strong hunch (BC/mig/myself/etc) since the godfather role is randomly assigned. | ||
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Since there are only 4 scum in this game. If a DT hits red he should absolutely claim it. | ||
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On August 04 2011 07:36 JeeJee wrote: lol, i was planning to go with http://www.nelsonhaha.com/ @ minii post-flip surprising, although the flip doesn't make the argument against varp any less shitty can you explain what was shitty about it he set off my scum sense right away imo for pretty good reasons maybe you're just bad and don't see how he was scummy | ||
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On August 03 2011 21:30 Curu wrote: That's why I said somewhat youngminii. Another note on Varpulis, he posted an analysis on redFF that used pretty much the exact same words and reasoning as something I brainstormed on Skype, so if he flips red then certainly someone in my Skype circle is also red. There's the chance that we just saw the exact same thing but I don't think it that likely since a lot of what I was saying came from IRC and I don't think he was even in there at the time (but I don't remember exactly). who else in your skype circle or is it the rest of your mafia team | ||
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On August 04 2011 07:39 JeeJee wrote: no, i don't. perhaps your majesty can enlighten me. as far as i see, it's the same argument as was against redff, except with pointless meta thrown in. correct me? Immediate post with advice related to mechanics/irrelevant shit (trying to appear pro town while contributing nothing) Plays it safe by going with the anti-town plan when everyone seems to agree with sandroba when people drop the plan he starts arguing vehemently against it then picks it up again out of nowhere (his objective has nothing to do with the plan, since it's anti-town at once, i see this as a fuck up by him) paragraphs of post with no helpful content, just "pro-town" posturing most of his posts are related to rules/mechanics and appear helpful but aren't typical day 1 behavior of a scum ive seen it countless times and now its getting really transparent. it's day 1 no case is "strong" but varpulis was definitely playing like scum and hey it turns out i was right | ||
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On August 04 2011 07:48 Mig wrote: BC/sandroba/syllo/myself/curu were all in a skype circle. BC is the mafia maybe curu | ||
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On August 04 2011 08:25 Curu wrote: He parroted me. I said the case against redFF, and Varpulis posted the exact same wording a bit later. oh | ||
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Barundar - Godfather is randomed by Kurumi along with every role. Experience has nothing to do with it. Chaos - Munk-E went on with Varpulis before a bus would have been necessary. I don't think a VIG on him is really necessary at this point, i'm getting an inactive/newbie town read on him to be honest. I way suspect BC over JeeJee right now. In fact I never felt the case on JeeJee was very strong to begin with. Weak diversion to take attention off Varpulis imo | ||
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Also FoS on draz for calling redff(whom i dont have a read either way on) scum just for defending himself. you say only scum would defend themselves that much so early when even a vanilla townie wouldnt want to die. and maybe a VT might not care enough but what about blue roles. draz is either being scummy or isnt thinking about what defending yourself means. filter I think we should wait untill the mafia can not kill our confirmed town right away to use the plan or we have enough suspicious people that we can use our vigi hits instead of just shooting because we can. whats the point in having a confirmed town that will most likely die when his orders on who to hit will most likely just be guesses? a gem of a post here: I agree with the draz lynch because i FOS'd him earlier | ||
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My suggestion for blues is this: Medic - Prot Mig or ON, decide who you trust more Vig - Kill Sevryn DT - Check BC | ||
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On August 04 2011 10:43 Sevryn wrote: I see a large amount of people who take flip flopping as a scum tell so I was trying to be stronger in my convictions. Kill me based purely off of meta? Not purely. Your posting is inactive and you didn't even vote for the person you FOS'd (a distractor bandwagon from varpulis) and super wishy washy. I get a read that is either terrible townie or scum from it. Meta helps. I called you out before anyone said anything about your meta lol | ||
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so weak | ||
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LaL | ||
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On August 05 2011 07:45 Lucidity wrote: Please do not claim to Mig. why? i already did ah | ||
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what makes me wonder is that why did the mafia not swing the bandwagon onto lucidity. jeejee/drazerk came under fire instead, that is bothering me and mig | ||
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On August 06 2011 04:59 Sevryn wrote: What makes you trust DrH over BC and JeeJee I think they are all very suspect errrrr i was one of the sstrongest proponents of the Varpulis lynch, the most vocal opponent of the sandroba plan (which vaprulis the mafia rb supported) and look at my vote record. i switched from lucidity back to varpulis when there was a strong opportunity to switch the town from one bandwagon to the next. you really think i'm a top suspect? based on what? | ||
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<mig__> you see jeejee voted for himself lol <DoctorHelvetica> trying not to give anything away <DoctorHelvetica> the more he argues <DoctorHelvetica> he might just implicate someone else <mig__> yea I agree lol <mig__> if I were medic and someone pulled this on me <mig__> I would be like wtf which one of those fuckers is lying <mig__> he is just like oh well kill me <mig__> it makes no sense for a townie lol | ||
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everytime a big scum is about to get lynched they pull the same shit "when i flip blue/green this this and this is gonna happen. wow you're all gonna feel really stupid when i lfip etc." it makes new townies nervous good thing im not dumb enough to let that be discouraging | ||
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On August 06 2011 06:17 Barundar wrote: Sevrin the problem is you are the most invisible poster in the thread, I can't remember anything of your stances or posts, neither good or bad. If you are town you should try and be more active and involved. For an example you could look into YM and chaos13? lol youre as if not more inactive | ||
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On August 06 2011 08:52 Kenpachi wrote: k i believe JeeJee is scum, no doubts. I am completely not sure on who the other scums are anymore though. Question to mig, if JeeJee flips red, how does it confirm BC/DrH? ##vote JeeJee well for me thats literally two mafia bandwagons in a row i was in full support of do you think i'm retarded enough to do that as mafia... | ||
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On August 06 2011 11:19 youngminii wrote: ok so when jeejee flips green can we kill bc? he claimed medic idiot and there is no green in this game | ||
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im protecting mig tonight. | ||
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On August 07 2011 05:38 Munk-E wrote: The epic fight between DrH and BC for who the real medic is commences! I would like to mention that the reason I am doing this is NOT because I think jeejee is innocent, I absolutely think he is Mafia, I just don't see how voting or analysis would help since he's in the vast majority of votes already. Since we have already figured out there is only going to be 1 medic, I am trying to figure out which of DrH or BloodyC0bbler is mafia. The first thing to note is that BC didn't vote for varp day 1. DrH DID change to varpulis, but only after the score was 6 to 3 with varp leading. I realize this was before the super big bandwagon vote, but for all I know, DrH could have seen that as the opportune time to switch to avoid suspicion. It does seem like the perfect time and he is experienced at this game i hear. As for this vote, They both are voting for JeeJee. However BC voted for him near last after it was obvious he was going to be killed no matter what practically. He qualified doing this by saying he forgot to vote. I'm not sure how much I believe this. Meanwhile DrH voted at a modestly normal time. Almost TOO normal, like right in the middle again, where bandwagon hopping wasn't an issue. BC put a lot of pressure on JeeJee this round BEFORE the mass voting really began! He did vote for JeeJee last time too, so he could quite easily just be sticking to his guns! DrH however states that he often changes his mind. What I find weird about DrH is that he's never really accusing anyone. He frequently cites other people as his arguments against who he's lynching. I'm guessing since he's a veteran player, he feels comfortable just talking in the thread. A lot of his posts don't contribute at all. Furthermore, he seems to be trying to run the game. It feels like he's currently in a state where no one really suspects him at all due to activity. The only other mafia game I played iGrok did the same thing and he was regarded the same way. He ended up being GF. In the end, BC has been after jeejee since the he first attacked him. He has continued to add (Rather compelling) evidence against jeejee. I think he did just forget to vote. While he's here proving his case, DrH is content to just blend in and appear active. For these reasons I am compelled to think DrH knew when to jump on the bandwagons. It is a close call, but in the end i think BloodyC0bbler is the real medic. ##vote DoctorHelvetica Varpulis was my first suspect since his first post, but people made the case before I really weighed in on it. I went onto Lucidity because of his poor posting but after careful consideration I went back onto Varpulis. Thankfully the scumteam has been so transparent after Varpulis' death that I don't really feel the need to do much. I think we have this game in the bag. If you really think I set up two buses in a row killing off the roleblocker and the godfather be my guest, but we can discuss this tomorrow. If I were scum I'd concede at this point. | ||
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On August 07 2011 06:13 Munk-E wrote: First and foremost, may I say, SWEET! GF! HECK YEAH! Next I would like to say that, unless someone has a better plan, I recommend both alleged medics protect each other. That way, we can either have a dead medic and a confirmed mafia, or an alive medic. I'm protecting mig either way. Mafia has 1 KP now, he is our most valuable player. | ||
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On August 07 2011 06:15 syllogism wrote: Don't tell who is going to protect whom, just make sure one of the medics is protecting mig and one is protecting the other good point. i won't necessarily be protecting mig. i'll PM bc and we'll RNG who we protect between the other medic and mig. this will confuse the mafia a bit. | ||
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On August 07 2011 06:29 Munk-E wrote: I still don't completely buy that there's 2 medics. How do I know that you're not mafia, and you convince BC to protect you and lynch BC, or vice versa? Or you could kill mig and say BC was supposed to protect him. You're catching on to my master plan. doctorhelvetica's brilliant genius master scum plan 1. lynch our roleblocker 2. hit TROTSKE a player who i've never even heard of instead of BC or ym or redff 3. hit mig the player most likely to be protected by a medic 4. bus the godfather instead of bc who i had already voiced strong suspicions for after saying multiple times i didn't really see jeejee as being particularly scummy sounds about right. AnYONE who has been on a scum team with me knows this is exactly what i would do right | ||
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On August 07 2011 12:17 youngminii wrote: yeah ok just vig me clearly i'm being counter productive to town and i don't want day 3 to just be "yeah kill ym no discussion" sorry folks, will try better next time <3 clearly the attitude of a great pro town player particularly youngminii the type of town who will vig/bandwagon anyone who even slightly criticizes him | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
mafia can't keep up theres no way they're surviving to LYLO. if there is no hit in there then just start RNG'ing lynched, town outnumbers mafia so heavily it's basically pointless. mafia should concede, this game is just a waste of time now unless mig or bc is mafia which i highly doubt | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On August 08 2011 12:07 chaos13 wrote: wtf is going on here. So we unexpectedly have majority lynch and a shortened phase and Munk flipped vet? Well then we really need to start looking at those other vet claims I feel like this is some weird medic/vig/dtless setup, with just a bunch of vets. Continue lynching based on post analysis, town outnumbers mafia so greatly that we can afford to do that. If we hit a dead end, come back to the mig circle (mig/me/bc/syllo) and start doing some digging. | ||
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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