On July 02 2011 10:24 Palmar wrote:
I'll never get an analysis in time on Wiggles.
Here is the main stuff:
He began the game writing some general town advice on how to play, and that was most of his contribution throughout day 1 up until he hopped Draz's bandwagon.
He ended up on the lurker list, fully aware that being there is anti-town
Opz thinks he's scum
I think he's scum
Sandroba thought he's scum
GGQ thinks he's scum
Here's my rebuttal:
- Day 1 posted useful advice for town that hadn't been brought up before by others, i.e. original content.
- Gave views on his suspicion of Palmar, pointed out a condemning scum slip by Drazerk (NOT hopping on the bandwagon), defended visc because I didn't think the case was strong (was almost entirely meta based), expressed suspicion of ~OpZ~.
- Did not choose to end up on the lurker list, but apparently quantity trumps quality. That's a terrible reason for voting me if there ever was one.
There's a list of my contributions from just day 1, more or less. Nice how you can't take the time to afford accuracy in your accusations, and I love the appeal to authority you tacked onto the end there to make it look like it's actually more legitimate than it is.
On July 02 2011 10:23 syllogism wrote:
Voting Wiggles, almost purely based on the lack of realistic GF alternatives, so I suppose you'll have to claim too. Meanwhile, Supersoft just stealth voted gtrsrs.
I'm Vanilla Town, and that's still a bad reason to vote me. Where did you get the idea that GF is only ever going to be a veteran player, and beyond that, why do you ignore the possibilities of Mig, GGQ, Jackal, Eiii, Palmar, even if you only limit yourself to that criteria? At this point, I think you're just sheeping along with Palmar more than making independent decisions yourself.
Palmar - breadcrumbed town by chaos13, also you don't lynch the motherfucking Brother Leader and Guide of the Town
Also, I don't get why Palmar keeps playing up the supposed "crumb" he found, where chaos makes reference to him being pro-town in his eyes like it makes him some kind of confirmed green. I think I'm starting to agree with Jackal about him.
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On July 02 2011 11:07 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 11:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Also, here's some simple logic:
We have one person we're pretty sure is scum
Everyone else we have to bandwagon on with three hours left, and without discussion
We have one lynch tonight
We have lurker kills tomorrow
So, we lynch the person we are pretty sure is scum now, and that gives us enough time to make actual analysis against the other people, some of whom will certainly be on the lurker lists.
As opposed to:
Save the only person who has concrete analysis against him to shoot him the next day
Scramble to find someone else to lynch and hope they're not town (Or in Palmar's case not really care)
Now, what makes more sense? My vote is staying on Hiro, for lack of better reasoning on others.
Good Night. This post seems scummy to me. For lack of a better target, I am voting you.
Good for you. I think hiro's scum, and even though he's going on the lurker list for near sure, I'm still going to lynch him instead of frantically scrabbling to find someone else who is scummy. That's the better play, lynch who you think is scum, not whoever you can put together a bandwagon on quick enough. This was a direct response to Palmar, who is asking that we don't lynch hiro so that we can use lurker KP on him tomorrow, without bringing up any actual reasoning for any other lynch, besides: "As for the rest, go nuts..."
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Ok, so this is over now:
QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/JftiqtZ2SzhYY
Thoughts:
Reasons Contributing To Why Mafia Got Bent Over And Raped:
1. General Inexperience of Scum:
As far as I can tell, for several of the mafia members, this was only their first or second game as scum. Three of them (Drazerk, Visc, DB) failed at staying hidden in a way I saw as irreparable, which I attribute to lack of individual experience as scum. As well, I have never led a mafia team before, and most (Read: All) of my games as scum have had a very hands-off approach to how the mafia team was managed in their posting. As well, I just don't like the idea of micro-managing people's posting.
2. An Actually Decent Town for Once:
This compounds with the first point somewhat. Most of my games, have been against town's who are incredibly bad. This was the first time I've played a town that actually didn't manage to tear itself apart on the first day. So, I didn't know what to expect or how to react, really. Town also had good aim, which is a side-effect of the first point. Kudos to town for being alright for once. :p
3. No Down-Time for Mafia:
I think this is actually an important point especially with the real-time mechanic and the lurker list. Normally, there are night phases, where town is not as active, and where mafia are given a chance to think and plan. This game does not feature night phases, and the entire game is essentially a day phase. As well, there is a lurker mechanic in play to encourage activity, and punish those who are seen to be "lurking". So, what happened to me the first day, is I spent a lot of time with the mafia team, and trying to figure out what to do, and that impacted on my posting, getting me on the lurkers list. The next day, I was able to be much more active, but that came at the sacrifice of being able to coordinate with my teammates. So, mafia is hard-pressed to actually be able to organize itself, as they have to be constantly posting to avoid the lurker list, or they have to risk being placed there, to spend more time communicating with their teammates.
4. High Concentration of Blues Amongst Vets:
This actually affected me, I think, and is mostly coincidence. However, there were confirmable blues in the form of YM, GM, and ~OpZ~, which didn't help me at the end of day 2. As far as I can tell, I was mostly lynched because "I was probably GF", using the fact that mafia would have at least one veteran, and with most vets either being dead, or being confirmable blues, I was pretty much the only choice left after process of elimination and general scuminess. Correct me if you had other reasons for the lynch, I can't tell as there was little discussion around it.
Suggestions:
- Put into place a 24 hour night cycle, and divide the mafia's kills with 2 during the day, and 1 available at night. As mafia die, reduce the amount of day kills, so that if town manages to kill enough mafia, they remove the risk of being shot in the day-time. This would give mafia more breathing room to be able to plan and communicate, while not negatively affecting town too much. This also opens up the possibility of day/night vigs and other roles, while also not too severely impacting the real-time nature of the game. This also does not require removal of the lurker list.
- Replace the GF with a Cover/Framer type role. I forgot to read that the GF was given choice of role appearance, and was reminded by RoL with limited time to choose. So, I just chose vig, with the intention of possibly faking a shot. However, I didn't think it through, as I later realized this was impossible. With the inclusion of lurker KP, it is not really possible to fake vig, as it requires the use of two mafia KP, as well as plausibility of medics on two days. Double-stacking is not plausible, as mafia will never double-stack in this set-up. So, that really limits the GF's choices and flexibility, as there are less roles he can plausibly pose as. That said, a cover/framer role may be more useful and flexible, or perhaps a GF that can also cover/frame, to make up for the relative weakness of RBs in this set-up.
Let me know what you think, and thanks for hosting, RoL, Kurumi, and Node.
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