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PYP Insane Postgame - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
June 22 2011 00:00 GMT
#21
On June 21 2011 19:27 Incognito wrote:
Also, JimboSilvers is Ver? Well that explains a lot...

Boy, I'm going to slap you all the way from Greenland.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6785 Posts
June 22 2011 03:36 GMT
#22
I just wished I had pushed Ace more. I hadn't been reading the thread too closely when I got messaged telling me a spot was available. After crash reading the thread I decided I agreed with Dreamflower's analysis but since most of the town thought Incog was mafia I suffered from acute indicision. Most of my reads ended up being right but my effectivenes was killed by my indecision.

Take home message: be more forceful when you think you're right. I think I'm good at promoting protownness, now I just need to stand by my guns and speak up when I have a scum read on someone.

Sorry dreamflower :/ if I had balled up, Incog and I probably could have gotten Ace lynched.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
June 22 2011 05:23 GMT
#23
On June 21 2011 16:53 bumatlarge wrote:
Yay! Aw I give you a story and I get a lousy 3?! (jk <3)

I have played too many games with Ace that I would feel bad if I wrongly accused him. May sound silly, but he foole me this game That's my problem, and I'll have to read into it better X_X

Do you have a role ranking list? Or does it really depend on the picking positions?

On June 11 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:
* Not backing Incog more: this was just silliness. I had a strong pro-town read, but had too much respect for Incogs play to be able to fully back him. Ace had successfully turned the thread, and I didn't think I could un-turn it. No need for advice here, I know where I failed and how to remedy it.

Two examples of how fear leads people to make the wrong decision, even though in the back of their minds they know they are making a mistake. Don't be afraid of looking like a fool. Make sure you don't make irrational assumptions. Sometimes you need to take a step back and look at the facts objectively instead of being afraid that Ace will laugh at you if you wrongly accuse him or that I am somehow going to fool you again.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Scamp
Profile Joined October 2008
United States1086 Posts
June 23 2011 08:41 GMT
#24
While I'm not entirely happy with receiving a 3 out of 10, I can't really argue against it. It's just that it implies that I played badly which I don't think I did. I certainly didn't play great but whatever.

I never actually claimed to be the inventor. I mean, I assume it was really obvious that I was but yeah. People pretty much just started talking about me like I was the inventor, and I just let it slide. I certainly couldn't counter-claim anything since there would be a good chance that I would be proven a liar, which is also how I felt saying anything like "no I'm not" would go as well.

It's very true that I could have hidden my role better but I didn't see an alternative choice that the mafia wouldn't want to kill that would be a suitable townie pick at the 2nd spot.

In retrospect I feel like I let the game get away from me. I felt my pick as well as my first invention were basically forced because doing anything else would get me killed. I actually was thinking of making something that would protect me night one. (basically something that turned whoever I gave it to into a bodyguard for me. Or something like that.) But I actually didn't expect to die, and if I didn't die I'd need to show

But I think I did well in line of how I tend to play. Ideas and big plans early on are not what I like to do (and I don't think I do them well) so I feel I did what I could to help the town.



As for the game itself, I was really surprised that I didn't get thief'd and instead I just got killed. Seeing where the mafia picked their roles made things clearer as they were probably afraid that thief had already been taken. I think I was most afraid of the Caller Godfather role, though. Glad we didn't have to deal with that.

I say take out the traitor and village idiot, or at the very least change them to be more interesting. I feel it really is not a difficult thing to do to get yourself lynched, and it basically spoils the game for everyone. I also don't understand the point of the traitor in this as you'd basically have to want to be mafia no matter what for some reason. I think both roles screw up game balance as well, as noted by the expectation that traitor would be picked. I really don't know why this was expected, though.
Cheese is good for you!
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-23 16:23:44
June 23 2011 16:18 GMT
#25
On June 22 2011 14:23 Incognito wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2011 16:53 bumatlarge wrote:
Yay! Aw I give you a story and I get a lousy 3?! (jk <3)

I have played too many games with Ace that I would feel bad if I wrongly accused him. May sound silly, but he foole me this game That's my problem, and I'll have to read into it better X_X

Do you have a role ranking list? Or does it really depend on the picking positions?

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:
* Not backing Incog more: this was just silliness. I had a strong pro-town read, but had too much respect for Incogs play to be able to fully back him. Ace had successfully turned the thread, and I didn't think I could un-turn it. No need for advice here, I know where I failed and how to remedy it.

Two examples of how fear leads people to make the wrong decision, even though in the back of their minds they know they are making a mistake. Don't be afraid of looking like a fool. Make sure you don't make irrational assumptions. Sometimes you need to take a step back and look at the facts objectively instead of being afraid that Ace will laugh at you if you wrongly accuse him or that I am somehow going to fool you again.

Absolutely correct. You can use past play style to some extent to analyze current games, but don't over-emphasize it, ultimately a post that is deliberately creating confusion is just that, regardless of the source. Read Ver's write-up about the "fog state" again - its good. Focus on facts more than source and be aware you may have "outside the game" biases - we all do. Some of the worst town players are those who blindly trust someone because they think it "feels right" based on their past interaction.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
June 23 2011 18:28 GMT
#26
Cool, I got a 6 XD

Thanks for the advice on having lead-up to your day kill, it makes a lot of sense. The reason why I ended up shooting ON (or some other random), is because the two people most of town was pushing to be shot were Node and Incognito. I had a strong town read on Incognito, and was null on Node. However, after Node claimed copycat and I found his crumb, I believed him in his claim, and decided not to shoot him, rather letting him live as an inventor since he would be accountable for it. So, I needed to find a replacement for the king lynch, and decided that ON looked scummy to me.

That's the story behind that. :p
you gotta dance
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
June 23 2011 20:08 GMT
#27
On June 23 2011 17:41 Scamp wrote:
While I'm not entirely happy with receiving a 3 out of 10, I can't really argue against it. It's just that it implies that I played badly which I don't think I did. I certainly didn't play great but whatever.

I never actually claimed to be the inventor. I mean, I assume it was really obvious that I was but yeah. People pretty much just started talking about me like I was the inventor, and I just let it slide. I certainly couldn't counter-claim anything since there would be a good chance that I would be proven a liar, which is also how I felt saying anything like "no I'm not" would go as well.

It's very true that I could have hidden my role better but I didn't see an alternative choice that the mafia wouldn't want to kill that would be a suitable townie pick at the 2nd spot.

In retrospect I feel like I let the game get away from me. I felt my pick as well as my first invention were basically forced because doing anything else would get me killed. I actually was thinking of making something that would protect me night one. (basically something that turned whoever I gave it to into a bodyguard for me. Or something like that.) But I actually didn't expect to die, and if I didn't die I'd need to show

But I think I did well in line of how I tend to play. Ideas and big plans early on are not what I like to do (and I don't think I do them well) so I feel I did what I could to help the town.



As for the game itself, I was really surprised that I didn't get thief'd and instead I just got killed. Seeing where the mafia picked their roles made things clearer as they were probably afraid that thief had already been taken. I think I was most afraid of the Caller Godfather role, though. Glad we didn't have to deal with that.

I say take out the traitor and village idiot, or at the very least change them to be more interesting. I feel it really is not a difficult thing to do to get yourself lynched, and it basically spoils the game for everyone. I also don't understand the point of the traitor in this as you'd basically have to want to be mafia no matter what for some reason. I think both roles screw up game balance as well, as noted by the expectation that traitor would be picked. I really don't know why this was expected, though.


I thought I made it clear in the intro but I guess not. You didn't play particularly badly at all you just got shot night 1 so your overall impact was small besides the solid invention, thats why the rating. Your position was tough and you needed to play more proactively to avoid an early death, which more or less meant appearing more pro town and putting a little more effort into your thoughts to show innocence. I think the suspicion on you is why kita didn't end up protting you.
Liquipedia
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
June 23 2011 20:43 GMT
#28
On June 22 2011 09:00 flamewheel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2011 19:27 Incognito wrote:
Also, JimboSilvers is Ver? Well that explains a lot...

Boy, I'm going to slap you all the way from Greenland.

I'm going to slap you for being such a troll.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Scamp
Profile Joined October 2008
United States1086 Posts
June 23 2011 22:21 GMT
#29
On June 24 2011 05:08 Ver wrote:
I thought I made it clear in the intro but I guess not. You didn't play particularly badly at all you just got shot night 1 so your overall impact was small besides the solid invention, thats why the rating. Your position was tough and you needed to play more proactively to avoid an early death, which more or less meant appearing more pro town and putting a little more effort into your thoughts to show innocence. I think the suspicion on you is why kita didn't end up protting you.


Yeah this was clear and I agree. I think what I was confused with most was that you mentioned that I claimed I was the inventor a few times which I never did, though what I just quoted shows that that point wasn't truly important.
Cheese is good for you!
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-23 22:56:01
June 23 2011 22:54 GMT
#30
Thanks for the excellent write-up Ver, and thanks Incog for your pro-town write up. Those are both very good pieces.

As far as future PYP games go, I would agree with scamp(and others) that removing the VI and traitor would be worthwhile. I also like the idea of mafia being able to flip their mole early.

I think PYP is my favourite set-up, so there should definitely be more in the future
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