EPTI died in both PTP and SNMM2. I need some love. I will, however, cohost a game, will that pose a problem?
Also used to love PM games, even when it´s limited.
TL Mafia XLII
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I died in both PTP and SNMM2. I need some love. I will, however, cohost a game, will that pose a problem? Also used to love PM games, even when it´s limited. | ||
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On June 12 2011 11:38 Varpulis wrote: I've got a friend who might be interested in joining, and he'd benefit from having somebody to guide him/converse with him. Trouble is, he doesn't use TL, so PMs wouldn't be a very effective form of communications. How do you suppose he will play in this game without visiting TL, when the game is on TL after all? | ||
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Let´s see if I get a spot there, until then replacements is fine, thx. | ||
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I was already masoned and stuff. Let´s see, let´s see... We know the exact number of scum this game. That´s better than nothing I guess. Also I will not be for the first half of night 0, because it´s in the middle of the night for me. Kinda excited. | ||
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I personally think that masoning people this early is risky, which is why I don´t understand it is being done again. Also, tell me if I´m still wrong on the Zodiac list thing, but I read the post where Ace first proposed one. If I remember correctly the whole use was so that
I was wrong on this list thing in the past, so maybe that´s why I am not a fan of this(In PTP it didn´t actually work out, so yeah) I advise one point though, that I think nobody ever mentions: When somebody makes you angry, don´t deduce that he must be mafia. I´ve seen it happen in every game I was in so far. Player A disagrees with Player B´s plan, calls him a shitty player or whatnot, and the reaction is almost always that Player B wants to lynch Player A, because "he is scum 100%". On a related matter, I think Sandroba´s plan is very simila to the Xelin plan in Mafia XXX, the game that Ver analysed. It can work and I will definitely go through with this. You see, to fuck with this plan, the scum have to risk a lot too and it doesn´t necessarily pay off. Sandroba needs to hold the circle on a need to know base. Not disclose all members to someone, only tell the Doc and Cop targets without disclosure if they´re in the circle or not. Theorizing why it would not work isn´t going to bring us anywhere. We have no alternate plan and we have no topic to discuss, so the thread will probably be filled with spam and wifom arguments instead. What else are we supposed to talk about? Doc targets, so scum can deduce who is a safe hit? Target lists are not useful, other than to see who is willing to discuss with minimal information available. That´s nothing else than guessing. | ||
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If there is no beginning, there is nothing we can talk about. Normally the game starts with a day 1 witch hunt. Barring a humongous slip, the Town gets around 2-3 suspects which will all be green in the end. Then we all feel sorry that they were all innocent and lament that we had no information to base an opinion on. Then you scum hunt in the big mess that is day 1. What exactly is the best alternative here? I don´t see the point of waiting for daybreak to "analyse" the nightkill. Because there is no point to it. The scum might kill at random, and if not, the discussion is a huge pile of wifom. "Victim A was most suspicious of Player B, so they probably killed him to make Player B look suspicious herpderp." Ver might have said this plan was rubbish because he can think of ways to fuck with it. Think again, how can you fuck with this plan without being found out as mafia? You have to first get in the circle. So you are known by at least 1 person. Then you have to prove your claimed role by 1 night action. If you can´t you simply don´t get into the circle. So Veterans(role) stay out of the circle obviously. You can´t fake active night roles for long. The only thing able to fuck with this (kinda) risk free is when Sandroba is not only already maf but gets elected gf. This is a huge if in my humble opinion. | ||
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You don´t plan to achieve anything, except that you are able to pressure scum to slip. Your assumption is, that scum buy *themselves* into a blatant trap. And then you hope scum, after you told everyone what exactly you intend to do, will still slip carelessly. You being able to scumhunt via PM is a pure assumption. You are convinced it is so, but everyone else has just to hope you are actually that good. I don´t think your plan is any better, espcially for the part where you tie up half the masoning ability of the whole town. Without any tangible benefit. You might as well get manipulated by a persuasive scum. There is no guarantee you won´t except for your promise to be Superman in PM-Land. | ||
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This is ok, the zodiac list is also good, but please don´t start now with pro-town lists. I´m sick of those. Just saying this preemptively. For the record, the first victim from the zodiac list......At least it´s now a little shorter? | ||
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So compelling in fact, that I am placing my vote on Ilovejonn to increase his pressure a tiny bit. ##Vote: iloveJonn | ||
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ILJ announced On June 16 2011 02:40 ilovejonn wrote: (...) ##Vote: GGQ. But instead half an hour later: On June 16 2011 03:09 ilovejonn wrote: ##Vote: Aidnai Looks kind of like he doesn´t want to put the first vote on GGQ, but is ok being the 3rd guy on aidnai. | ||
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2:40 he announces "vote GGQ" in the thread, but didn´t vote in the voting thread. Then 30 minutes later at 3:09 he decided to announce "vote: aidnai" and then actually put it in the voting thread. | ||
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So the most stupid thing I can think: Hypocop anyone? Warning, Hypocop sucks and I´m well aware. | ||
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On June 16 2011 21:12 Impervious wrote: EBWOP - Also, I'd like to say that I really dislike sandroba's plan, and although RoL's plan is a little better, I don't like it either, because we could screw ourselves out of half of the towns mason abilities for the cost of a single red (if he's scum). Another thought: I'm not going to say who I've masoned or been masoned by. I'd advise everyone to do the same for now. Revealing it may be useful later on for scumhunting purposes, but right now it'll only clutter up any discussions, and I'm pretty sure the mafia could use it to easily distract us. A further thought: DT's - if you've found a red, you could push for a lynch, or you could try to look through the thread for any blue slips and find a vigi. If you find a vigi, you could simply mason them and get them to use their ability. Since the GF had to pick his role to appear, I'd doubt he'd pick it as vigi (although you never know), so this should be pretty safe. Otherwise, you could continue looking for more scum, and try to push for their lynch + breadcrumb your knowledge in case you die. It´s not that easy to find blueslips for a vigi in this thread. Discussion flows at the speed of snails, so anyone has ample time revise their post or just postpone them for a couple of hours and they will still be on the same page. What you propose will most probably achieve the following: Our blues will use their mason abilities on snippets and unsure reads. If they mistake lurking scum for a lurking blue, they invite themselves to a nice, beefy bullet buffet N1. Cops should breadcrumb their checks and that´s that. Aside from that, I´m disappointed that votes travel away from ILJ without any reason but prolonged silence in this thread. Look at the low activity. I would strongly consider that scum wouldn´t defend their buddies, but instead wait for people to get insecure about the case and change the vote on their own accord. Which happened, YM did drop the case already. Imho the Sinani case is jumping on townie acts scummy because he has no reads. Not having any noteworthy reads is not a crime especially in this thread where fuck all happens. The Aidnai case is laughable at best. The only thing that stumbled upon me is Demorcerfs first post: + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2011 08:13 DeMorcerf wrote: On page 9: "Focus on behavioral analysis because there is no way to legitimately break the game set up that doesn't come with considerable risk. . . . . Focus on behavioral analysis and putting pressure on people, that is how towns have won games in the past, and that's how we will win this game. Making a plan to abuse format is always secondary to behavioral analysis in any set up." At any point in the game... though I can't think of any logic to explain why they wouldn't do it before the first night ends. Has anyone seen a mafia that waited? Concerning this zodiac plan, I don't think I really understand why we wouldn't want the insurance-agents (medics) to keep as many of the most experienced players as possible alive for the first day or two and tell them not to attempt to save anyone on that list? The more of those players we keep around, are we not more likely to have a greater number of well-designed posts with strong analysis? Those players are the best at putting pressure and stimulating discussion and analysis. How do these plans work though if only a few people follow each of them? sandroba's plan seems overly bizarre and complex to me, I question how much useful and trustworthy information we could gain from it, especially if the majority of the town seems to have already expressed a strong opinion that they will not follow/ignore it. Rebirthoflegend's attempt to mass up mason-partners should allow him additional analysis of whoever does mason him, even if only half a dozen do so. If he is mafia though? I am wondering how efficient it will be if a large percentage of the town uses one of their two masons on the same, one person, couldn't it limit the ability of the town to disseminate information later on should that person die at some point or turn out to be scum? We shouldn't entirely rely on one person's analysis production obviously. Viscera, did Rebirth actually suggest we leave it just to him? Everyone should be contributing in analysis, those who don't attempt to do so are suspicious, aren't they? Second thing I noticed, he seems to be in love with questions marks. Dribbling about without any conclusion and reiterating a lot of what other people already said. You could shorten it into: "Sandrobas plan seems overly bizarre and complex to me. I doubt it would bring us any info even if it worked. As for RoL´s plan, we shouldn't entirely rely on one person's analysis production obviously. Viscera, did Rebirth actually suggest we leave it just to him? " That is the only thing I picked up so far, and it sure as hell is not much. He is with very likely just an insecure new player and town. But as this thread direly needs topics to discuss: What does the rest of you think? | ||
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Keep one thing in mind: If there is a reason for someone to be lynched now, why wasn´t there a reason to vote for them the whole last 44 hours? In other words, any new suspects or cases that are made against people which are not built on recent posts are scummy like hell to me. For example: On June 17 2011 07:47 GGQ wrote: Lynching an inactive is a crapshoot, lynch an active lurker who is skating by with the barest skeleton of contribution. Lynch Impervious. Don´t bring new suspects to the table. There is literally no reason which wasn´t there 10 hours ago, so why bring it up now and not earlier? | ||
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"I could post a lot and help town, I just don´t want to. Maybe I will start to post more if you kill Kenpachi" Are you shitting us? Why the F' sign up to a game and then go ahead with a plan that gives you the chance of being Superman in PM land and then say "The game is boring I´m watching TV instead". Apart from any alignment, what kind of attitude is that? | ||
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Back to post my thoughts in order: All 3 of the nightkills could be explained by the observation that Blues contribute as well as they can, but lurk most of the time. People told me this is not what a blue should be doing, but apparently they do it anyways. I think this works more or less for all 3 dead people. Or alternatively, since many people lurk this game, I think it´s entirely possible that at least 1 or them claimed in PMs, like Viscera assumes. If Mig did breadcrumb his Night 0 check, then it is most likely Sandroba. If he didn´t, it is likely he told someone via PM. Which is kinda bad since then he very likely PMed it to scum and probably scum only. A thought which crossed my mind:+ Show Spoiler + When RoL claimed his cop check came in, he talked about a cop that is in his mason circle. Linking Mig and RoL together, I think this could be a scenario: Mig had guilty check on Kenpachi. After some back and forth with RoL he decides to trust him anyway and make RoL claim it(RoL is supposedly a hive mind thing, being the target of a lot of masonings) But RoL is scum and had to claim exactly as Mig said to not alarm him. Then scum proceed to kill Mig. The end of this line of thought is RoL and Kenpachi are both scum. Kenpachi was checked by Mig, Mig told RoL. RoL is forced to bus Ken and does bus him in the weakest way he can, so people don´t take it seriously. Then Mig is killed. So if one of Kenpachi and RoL flips scum at any point, that doesn´t mean the other is cleared. So yeah, that´s about the 3 possible scneraios I see so far:
Aside from that conspiracy theory, I still want RoL to shape the fuck up. His attitude sucks big time. Wasting mason abilities and then not doing anything with it is very suspicious behaviour, so he gets my vote. ##vote Rebirth of Life | ||
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oups | ||
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On June 19 2011 05:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: To explain that, I used that PM strategy to assure myself N0 medic protection because I assumed I was likely to get hit early on, and by pretending I was very important the mafia would be too scared to actually hit me, because I was likely to draw a protect. I actually never received even close to as many masons as I claimed. I have like 3 atm. Huh, odd. At the start I assumed your strategy was for you to draw a hit since you are veteran or already have a Doctor at hand to protect you. But isn´t this behavior rather selfish? Lie to get Doctor protection *and* be avoided by mafia hits. On the other hand there is LAL for a reason. If you lie too often, people stop believing you, even if you tell the truth. For you 2 questions:
Bonus question: Youngminii already told us he is masoned to RoL. If you really have only 3 masons, why did you find the time to post BS in the thread, but not PM anything serious with one of your 3 PM buddies? | ||
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He presented himself as some kind of PM Superman and one or two people actually said he is really that good. And now he can´t handle more than 2 people in PMs? You´re putting words in my mouth. My point is he didn´t PM anything serious with Youngminii. I don´t know with whom else he PMed and I don´t accuse him for stuff I don´t know anything about. | ||
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Also we are still waiting for RoLs reasons why Hiro is town. I´m not buying the genuine reaction to suspicion. In my last game GM was let off the hook for lynching the vig who shot a mole over the confirmed antitown player who was 90% certainly scum. All he had to say is "Sorry, I take full responsibility for this mess" and everyone forgave him. Hiro could have his buddies in his mafia circle make the perfect answers for him. So please indulge me why Hiro is town. + Show Spoiler + O a side note, the zodiac list seem to be rather fruitless(again) Rebirthoflegend BloodyC0bbler Node Mr.Wiggles Opz Youngminii So far I see 2 trends with this: 1. These people can go by with doing what us mere mortals do. 2. Every night 1 on this list dies as part of scum shooting routine. And the pressure on everyone else on this list does not increase, at least as far as I can tell. Maybe I just have another misconception as to what zodiac lists are supposed to accomplish. | ||
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On June 20 2011 01:36 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I take back my hiro town statement. Aidnai can attest to there being a good reason I said it earlier. So just for fun can everyone start unvoting me at the very least? I seriously still have like 5 votes. If I was meaner I would say "Earn it". As fun as that would be, I won´t. I will place my vote on Hiro for the time being. | ||
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Are feeling bad because your gut instinct has so far been wrong? Did you choose the wrong target, just as you thought you uncovered the mafia´s plan? If the above is I have truly fascinating offer for you: + Show Spoiler + PATTERN RECOGNITION! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7nfxF.jpg) All you need are the following: www.random.org or a common die The remainder of the Zodiac list+ Show Spoiler + 1. Rebirthoflegend 2. BloodyC0bbler 3. Node 4. Mr.Wiggles 5. Opz 6. Youngminii And you´re all set. Just roll the dice and randomize to find out who on the zodiac list you will attempt to save. /serious on Since scum killed one person on the zodiac list per night for the last 2 nights, this is quite a safe bet in my opinion. At least safer than picking 1 out of 18 people yourself not included. So far they probably didn´t go for BC and Node because they are slightly higher priority even on the zodiac list and thus get protected for sure, or simply because they ARE the scum. By randomizing scum can´t just pick the "lower end" of the list which is far less likely to get protected and expect to come through with it. | ||
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On June 20 2011 13:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote: So here is the dealio. No one, and I repeat no one shoots hiro. There are new developments that I cannot go into detail at this exact time to explain but no one takes a pot shot at him. I repeat until further notice, no hatter/vig shoots hiro When things are fleshed out more I will give you more info, but for the next bit of time keep your guns holstered. To clear my confusion, when exactly can we expect results? Having someone escape the lynch by the grit of his teeth 2 days in a row suggests to me that he will be top candidate tomorrow too. All the while I hope our Doctors, if existant, do the smart thing and try out randomizing their save out of a list of likely targets(for example the zodiac list). I prefer scum to at least fear of not hitting who they want. | ||
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That was quick. He has about 2 posts which are longer and actually contain some information aside from wifom statements and nonsense. Post 1 Post 2 But look for yourself. By extension, @Varpulis, why did you find FudgeMonkey worth your vote but did not push for him at all? Looking through his posts, it´s evident he is a worthy candidate for lynch for active lurking and only contributing when he´s personally asked to, yet you didn´t follow through? This really worries me. | ||
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Well here´s an update! On June 20 2011 11:32 Mataza wrote: Are you a Doctor and frustrated you never saved someone? Are feeling bad because your gut instinct has so far been wrong? Did you choose the wrong target, just as you thought you uncovered the mafia´s plan? If the above is I have truly fascinating offer for you: + Show Spoiler + PATTERN RECOGNITION! All you need are the following: www.random.org or a common die The remainder of the Zodiac list+ Show Spoiler + 1. Rebirthoflegend 2. BloodyC0bbler 3. Node 4. Mr.Wiggles 5. Opz 6. Youngminii And you´re all set. Just roll the dice and randomize to find out who on the zodiac list you will attempt to save. /serious on Since scum killed one person on the zodiac list per night for the last 2 nights, this is quite a safe bet in my opinion. At least safer than picking 1 out of 18 people yourself not included. So far they probably didn´t go for BC and Node because they are slightly higher priority even on the zodiac list and thus get protected for sure, or simply because they ARE the scum. By randomizing scum can´t just pick the "lower end" of the list which is far less likely to get protected and expect to come through with it. 1. Rebirthoflegend 2. BloodyC0bbler 4. Mr.Wiggles 5. Opz 6. Youngminii Exclude Node, since BC intends to kill him for.... uncertain purposes. Would be too bad if he go saved when he is targeted by hopefully townsided kp. | ||
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I love it when a plan comes together. Veteran here, I have taken a hit. I don´t know how exactly the death math turns out but I´m hit regardless. FoS RoL, since Sandroba told RoL via PM I´m blue. Coincidently Sandroba mysteriously died tonight. Removing the witnesses too, are we? | ||
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Hiro suicided Node Sandroba died. Mafia KP was cut by one for mismodkilling aidnai yesterday. | ||
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I hope I wrote to my other contact, checking PM sent now. | ||
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Nobody else claimed hit so far, that´s all I have in my favor. I claimed veteran to my other contact earlier, just without the Sandroba telling RoL part, if that helps. | ||
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On June 21 2011 11:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote: That he was. I was never informed of this plan though. I can explain: In case i don´t get targeted tonight our plan was to confirm you by Sandro dropping sly hints towards my blueness and to see if I get targeted the night after. | ||
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On June 21 2011 11:34 ~OpZ~ wrote: Well your other contact is probably town. Mafia would not of hit you if they knew you were veteran. What did sandroba tell RoL you were? Who came up with the idea to let it slip you were blue to RoL? Was RoL and Sandroba + other contact that is 99% green the only people that knew you were blue, and knew about this plan to trap RoL? To explain in full: I have another contact who knew I am blue night 0 and who I told I am actually Vet day 1. This person (hopefully) knows I contacted Sandroba. I am pretty sure I informed him. I proceeded to randomly ask Sandroba a couple of meaningfull questions, which he thought was suspicious, so he told RoL. After I explained to him in a way that made sense, he realised it was probably a mistake to tell RoL right away. We proceeded to call it a plan from then on. | ||
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First question and answer + Show Spoiler + Original Message From sandroba: The main reason is because he responded to your weak acusation too quickly and he's been mia since the heat is off of him. That can be said about many players though. Sinani is another that comes to mind, as soon as he was no longer a suspect he completely dissapeared. This town is very inactive and it's really easy for mafia to hide amongst the lurkers. Little conversation into Skype exchange: + Show Spoiler + Yes I do *redacted* I could give you my skype history, but it´s a mess. We had small talk and honestly, a bit of it should stay secret in case it becomes valuable info later on. Turns out RoL had a little document with notes he gave Sandroba, which I of course can´t prove now. I give you my word that it happened, nothing more. | ||
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[19.06.2011 20:57:37] Sandro : If you dont get shot tonight how do you feel about doing the same with bc [19.06.2011 20:57:43] Sandro : assuming I'm alive till then [19.06.2011 20:57:52] Mataza: sending him a heart? [19.06.2011 20:57:57] Sandro : lol [19.06.2011 20:57:59] Mataza: or telling him im a blue role [19.06.2011 20:58:08] Sandro : not telling [19.06.2011 20:58:12] Sandro : just crumbing [19.06.2011 20:58:22] Mataza: hinting breadcrumbing ya [19.06.2011 20:58:32] Sandro : like, that mataza fellow is kinda suspicious [19.06.2011 20:58:43] Sandro : he contacted me day1 to fish about my plan [19.06.2011 20:58:49] Sandro : and just leave it at that [19.06.2011 20:59:18] Sandro : if he's mafia he's gonna auto assume you are blue [19.06.2011 20:59:44] Sandro : like vig/dt/medic [19.06.2011 20:59:48] Mataza: I don´t think it works well if you do it intentionally [19.06.2011 21:00:24] Mataza: you can, but contacting him only to tell him nothing and breadcrumb I´m blue is kinda weird The part about him telling RoL right away was in IRC, and I have no proof for that whatsoever. It was spontaneous by him as I asked him a cryptic question. After the explanation he thought it was bad, after I told him I´m Veteran he was happy he did it. If you want to discuss it indepth mason me or something. | ||
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I talked a lot and have been very cautious as to what I say when. I am not going to find a log on every single thing that was said or lead to what happened tonight. You may have reasons to mistrust my judgement, but not to mistrust me. As it stands, the following happened: As it happened I masoned Sandroba because of his plan. Much later, I asked him what his read on me was. He answered, but found the question weird. I proceed to tell him I´m blue. He fosses me and tells RoL my claim. I explain a bit further, starting to make sense, and he goes "Oh shit, I just did something stupid. I told RoL you´re blue" RoL answered him he actually thought I was blue. As I told Sandro I am indeed a Veteran everything was happy after that, since if RoL was scum i would be sure to get hit that night. Alas it happened so. Facts:
Correct me if I´m wrong, but I think scamp was masoned to RoL? Might misremember, but it´s not that important anway. If I only had gotten hit, I wouldn´t be this sure. But as Sandroba died too, and Sandroba and me make up the only 2 mafia hits this night, AFTER Sandroba slipped my blueness to RoL, I am convinced: Rebirth of Legend is scum
Discussion should obviously revolve around other suspects, but votes should land on RoL ##Vote: RebirthOfLegend | ||
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On June 21 2011 16:36 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I currently have 5 masons, well 4 now that sandroba is dead. I never thought you were blue and I don't even recall the conversation he referenced. I seriously just looked through our skype log and found nothing except him showing part of a PM you received and me saying how it was the same line I saw syllogism say. Your case is shit. My entire mason the shit out of me and lie about it plan was just to make sure I drew a medic night 0, or scared the mafia off from hitting me. I did actually pressure people who were masoned to me. I harassed sandroba and got a town read off of him, I set a trap for aidnai (if he were scum) and he passed it. Youngminii somehow is constantly failing to properly add me on skype so I can speak to him, and the other 2 people I am masoned with one can't get onto skype and the other I refuse to try to analyze due to the sheer difficulty of it. Of course you don´t remember and can´t find any of it. Just as much as you don´t know who the other mafia players are. I literally only told Sandroba of this plan, so the probability of it leaking into scum ears was around 0% Unless Sandroba lied to me, which I think is unlikely. Or *you* told someone else, but your defense is you didn´t even know I am blue. The only other person aware of my masonings got exactly this at the start of day I´m doing my best to get myself known as blue role to red circles. Maybe a little too much. I PM´ed Sandroba a very short message. I think if he´s scum I will get a bullet finally tonight^^ Do you have any clear town reads? I´m thinking about breadcrumbing an innocent check. I have no reason to distrust anything what Sandroba said. My other contact was´nt even aware I talked with Sandroba at all beyond one first message. Since I didn´t tell anybody else, the only other explanation for me and Sandroba getting hit is coincidence. Yesterday we had 18 players, minus 6 scum so 12 townies. Statistically, the chance of one player getting hit was 8.33% Leaves 11 other people, so the chance of getting hit was abot 9.09% 2 specific people getting shot is the bomination of those 2 chances, or 0.75%, less than 1 % That´s comparable to flipping a coin and getting Heads 9 times in a row. Amazing coincidence, right? Or alternatively everything happened as I described and scum to decided to off a blue(me) and the guy who told them he was blue(Sandroba). There is of course the option that I was a good hit based on the thread, but in my experience my thread presence makes me a decent lynch target more than anything else. The scum shooting Sandroba and me based on thread presence is the most random thing ever, if you discard my explanation. So either randomness, randomness or pure calculating intent which already lead to 3 blue snipes. I don´t think scum got 3 blue snipes by guessing them all. They at least had solid claims via PM at 2 of them. Stop resisting RoL, you are going down tonight and hopefully even flip godfather. | ||
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This isn´t ballsy, this is suboptimal. If scum would play this inefficient they wouldn´t win, because THEY ARE NOT KILLING ENOUGH PEOPLE. Do you know what *is* ballsy? You are: You get fossed early on, then don´t do anything. You wait a long period of time until someone says "He can´t be scum, scum will always pick alternate targets when they are on the block! Therefore he must be the greenest bro in town!" Pick an absolute horrifyingly bad lynch from the inactives. Take one no one ever had on their radar(Syllogism) before to look more genuine than sheeping an existing inactive lynch(Hiro Protagonist). Call the people on the less horrible lynch scummy by virtue of vote analysis(Vote analysis is horrible way to scumhunt). | ||
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Bus like there is not tomorrow. I´ve seen it done in PTP, where Dropbear with one of his last posts only talked about how scummy his teammates were, while his teammate GMarshal bussed him. In my first game Palmar bussed Hiro without remorse. Everything RoL says shall be perceived as circular reverse wifom. It´s literally a coinflip if he busses his teammates, to make them look innocent after his flip or if he blames townspeople, so we confuse it with him bussing someone. It will be even less fruitful than vote pattern analysis.(Voting is a commitment, Fossing someone is free) | ||
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RoL wrote just above this post: To be honest, if I wanted to meta that I could. In previous games I generally refuse to be the godfather and decide who on my team will be it. Usually I will pick who I deem the second best player on my team as GF, since I can cover my tracks and argue well enough to where I don't need godfather protection and it would fuck with the town to think "If RoL wasn't the GF then who was?" Look it´s circular, uncalled for since he is supposed to flip green and it tells us he is not godfather. He wants us to be extra doubtful until the godfather is found. Flip a coin to determine what this tells us. Hint: It´s only here to make us mistrust each other For good measure, let´s tie up some loose ends I unearthed my own post(yes, I like my own posts  )The day after Mig, the cop, died: A though crossed my mind: When RoL claimed his cop check came in, he talked about a cop that is in his mason circle. I think this could be a scenario: Mig had guilty check on Kenpachi. After some back and forth with RoL he decides to trust him anyway and make RoL claim it in the thread(RoL is supposedly a hive mind thing, being the target of a lot of masonings) But RoL is scum and had to claim exactly as Mig said to not alarm him. Then scum proceed to kill Mig. tl;dr Kenpachi was checked by Mig, Mig told RoL. RoL is forced to bus Ken and does bus him in the weakest way he can, so people don´t take it seriously. Then Mig is killed. Sound familiar? Something is told via PM then everyone involved dies mysteriously. That´s right, they did it again last night, with me and Sandroba.+ Show Spoiler + <Mr. Mysterio> Kenpachi WOULD have made a great n0 check. <Mataza> exactly< <Mr. Mysterio> He's INFAMOUS for being insane in his posting. <Mr. Mysterio> My money is on Miller if that's true...he's been posting like insane-town...not insane-scum. <Mataza> if he was miller, would RoL pass this chance? <Mataza> to gain ezpz towncred <Mataza> it´s like towncred on a silver platter <Mr. Mysterio> Pass chance to what? Call out for DT check on Kenpachi? <Mataza> he could claim he is dt himself or he knows one who checked kenpachi <Mr. Mysterio> He already did <Mr. Mysterio> lol <Mataza> he even could say it was mig and that mig got shot because he dropped bluetells <Mataza> or because of "the mysterious other mason he had" <Mataza> and then he would be townhero Simply, I don´t buy that RoL just claimed a copcheck out of boredom(boredom being his excuse for every single thing he did). Also mig had night 0 to get one check, yet he didn´t breadcrumb anything(Sandroba was miller, so that message doesn´t count) It´s not waterproof but I do think Kenpachi being scum is possible. Discuss | ||
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1. Ignore him until he flips green 2. If he flips green, begin rereading. + Show Spoiler + If you are green, I appreciate your efforts. But I don´t think you are. You revoked all your defences that let you be town. | ||
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1. To my knowledge no pressure at all. I believe it´s an equally valid method to feign no interest as to keep everyone on a "need to know" basis. Pressuring for a role through another person is an arduous task and might be interpreted as fishing. By not fishing no one would have a reason to tell that to "Mason #2" They were just riding high on 3 bluesnipes in 2 days. How do you know how strong Sandrobas townread on RoL was? 2. Look for my blueslips. I dare you to find condemning ones. I am very different from the other blue snipes in behaviour. There´s still a chance for coincidence but it´s miniscule. See, if you would tell Xx that you find Yy suspicious, because Yy is claiming blue in a weird way to you and the following night Yy drops dead, woudln´t you doubt Xx too? Wouldn´t you find it at least curious and tell all your other masons? What you are proposing is about as likely as your own explanation in PTP, that you got framed and your target got busdriven to the on-death alignmentrevealer, all in one night. I´m not saying it´s impossible, but you should go buy a lottery ticket if it happens. | ||
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I was masoned to aidai before he got modkilled, and on day 2 we talked a little about who we thought scum might be. One of the people we talked about, was Hiro. What I told aidnai, was that Hiro was either red, or a bad blue. After the events of the day, I was more convinced it was bad blue, than scum. If aidnai hadn't been modkilled, and hiro had shown up shot today, would I be more suspicious of aidnai? Not really. The critical difference here lies in the details. I, too, had a mason partner tell me he thinks Hiro is bad blue, so I know this situation exactly. Hiro was apparent or semi apparent in the thread. The difference is, I wasn´t apparent by slipping left and right and I was moderately active. You can believe my "trap" was set and nobody was told but Sandroba and me, in order to not let scum know(obviously) and everything fell into place like my trap worked. Or you can believe Sandroba and I set up a trap for RoL, and RoL claims to not have told anyone and all the pieces fall, just like they would if my trap worked, but it actually didn´t and RoL is actually green. You could also believe food grows in your refrigerator and that your parents never had sex. But you don´t believe this bullshit because it is bullshit. So back to assuming scum aim for blue(which should be a no brainer): If you would have to justify shooting me, how would you argue? This is mafia, so you can´t get by only thinking like the side you are on, or you would lose horribly to wifom. Try arguing for it. You can´t tell me scum just hit 3 blue roles by accident. They *aim* for blues. If you don´t assume that scum aim for blues, you might as well argue that scum would doublestack Sandroba so I could claim veteran and get RoL lynched. Why don´t you assume that? Because it is suboptimal use of scum abilities. They could simply doublestack RoL and then bandwagon Sandroba. But they didn´t. That is why I asked you to argue for me being a valid blue snipe. Or Sandroba, for that matter. Back to assuming my plan didn´t work, yet everything just happened as if it had worked. Give me a fu**ing reason my plan didn´t work.
To make it appear as if the plan worked, scum would have needed info Sandroba and I didn´t give to anyone. If this was manipulated, RebirthofLegend would be town *and* he would have lied when the truth would save his ass. How can anyone fucking believe this is a scum setup? How can you argue my plan did not work? Now, if it isn´t a setup and my plan did not work, WHY THE HELL DID IT HAPPEN THE WAY IT DID? COINCIDENCE? | ||
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I should have highlighted that RoL, if he was green, would have lied when the truth would save his ass. | ||
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This is just like town in PTP again. There is someone who is 99% scum through reliable proof and you are taking his claims as arguments? What if he now told you he is a detective and got 3 consecutive scumchecks, would you believe that too? NO! How about we ask RoL "Hey RoL, are you mafiasided?" He says "No." Will you then say"Hey guys, RoL is green, I asked him." Now, Scum have so far not been detected. Let´s say the gullible blues who claimed via PM are all dead by now. So you don´t have the luxury of multiple confirmed blues to choose from. Not getting detected or suspicions cast on you is a resource too. That´s why people bus their mates to remove suspicion against them or on the opposite, to get towncred. You are well aware of that, but I am explaining in length for the people getting confused by this drama. Now let´s say RoL, who was up on the block for at least 24 hours on day2, were told a bluerole by someone, let´s call him Sand. Sand knows he told RoL something that exposes someone, lets call him Mat, as a bluerole. Now everybody is aware that RoL was suspicious and his whole defense was based on "scumteam wouldn´t be so quiet if I really was scum" That´s was not a really good defence. Now, if RoL did kill Mat, but not kill Sand, Sand would think "Hey, Mat really was a bluerole" and then he would say "Oh shit, I am supposed to not tell blue roles to strangers. Better tell everyone my mistake" And then the whole town would know Mat claimed being a blue role to Sand and Sand told it to RoL. Then RoL would look mighty scummy again, as his last defence wasn´t really good. For the record, I didn´t expect Sandroba to be hit too, exactly because I assumed they tried to kill another blue instead. But it happened. By connecting the dots scum either valued having no witnesses over more than sniping a 2nd blue or they simply did not have a 2nd blue to snipe. | ||
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On June 22 2011 11:35 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I will reveal the portion where I am breadcrumbed Mataza's role. I finally figured it out, with the help of Mataza. The bold portion was supposed to infer that the only reason Mataza would be interested in Sandroba's (shitty) plan is because Mataza himself was a DT. It was such a vague reference that I never even realized it until Mataza pointed it out a couple of hours ago. Yes, but more no. Sandroba told me he gave me away to you. I wasn´t told the details. Now you obviously only gave me material that was not dangerous to you. [6/18/2011 6:09:02 PM] joe oliva: really suspicious imo [6/18/2011 6:09:41 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm gonna pasate his msg [6/18/2011 6:09:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: (my message) Now look at the timestamp. The exact timezone isn´t even relevant. Look at the date. Luckily I did copy little bit of text from IRC into skype because we had IRC issues. [19.06.2011 20:28:44] sandro.maculan: Hi mataza_! I’d like to add you on Skype. Sandro Maculan [19.06.2011 20:28:44] Mataza: Mataza has shared contact details with Sandro Maculan. [19.06.2011 20:29:09] Mataza: [20:24] <Mataza> I wouldn´t think so^^ [20:25] <Mataza> Only thing making me nervous is you being scum [20:25] <Mataza> You could make hits on me so i push RoL [20:26] <Mataza> But I´m gonna put that away for now. [20:26] <Mataza> We´ll see if a case against me comes out of thin air soon [20:26] <Mataza> Since I am not worth doublestacking at this point [19.06.2011 20:29:12] Mataza: from irc [19.06.2011 20:30:04] Mataza: so basically I´m untouchable to scum [19.06.2011 20:37:24] Mataza: i can´t write in irc anymore lol [19.06.2011 20:37:33] Mataza: first this ever happened to me [19.06.2011 20:38:16] Sandro Maculan: shit [19.06.2011 20:38:24] Sandro Maculan: that's the same thing that keeps happening to me You can see from my conversation with Sandro, we were literally just about finished discussing "our plan", when we were forced to change from IRC to skype. Unprovable but funny fact: Sandroba outright told you I´m blue, he didn´t breadcrumb it.+ Show Spoiler + [19.06.2011 20:57:20] Sandro Maculan: If you dont get shot tonight how do you feel about doing the same with bc [19.06.2011 20:57:43] Sandro Maculan: assuming I'm alive till then [19.06.2011 20:57:52] Mataza: sending him a heart? [19.06.2011 20:57:57] Sandro Maculan: lol [19.06.2011 20:57:59] Mataza: or telling him im a blue role [19.06.2011 20:58:08] Sandro Maculan: not telling [19.06.2011 20:58:12] Sandro Maculan: just crumbing Now, the alleged bluetell you gave us is on 18th, while I only began communicating with Sandroba on the 19th. Screw Timezone, there is a day missing. What you have pointed out is vague at best, that is right. But what actually matter´s didnt happen back then, it happened around a day later. | ||
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RoL taking a little breadcrumb I planted and selling it as something Sandroba would panic over is retarded. You could as well go back to day one where i planted my first meager breadcrumb which nobody cared for. It can work and I will definitely go through with this. This is horseshit and it´s from the 15th. What RoL just served you is the same horseshit from 18th. Seriously, do I really need to tell someone I cannot trust yet(BloodyC0bbler) what I do, before I do it to make it credible? Of course RoL is going to deny receiving a message that would condemn him. He is SCUM on the chopping block. Him saying he received that message is the equivalent of him confessing his guilt. At the start people said town wins by creating several small circles instead of one big circle. But apparently every communication has to go through BC or some other veteran still. Do you want to know why I do not trust any of the veterans? Because they did fuck all this game and fuck all my last game. We have a Zodiac list with veterans. The first vet dies, the second vet dies, nobody reacts. Node gets killed and flips scum. BC called him out apparently with pure gut feeling. That reeks of the godfather bussing the weakest link. There was no analysis prior to the night and no questions asked afterwards. | ||
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These are my sent messages. Read from top to bottom: + Show Spoiler + 6. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/20 03:28 5. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/20 02:52 Mysterious contact #2Re: SNMM4 6/19 12:11 Mysterious contact #2SNMM4 6/19 12:04 4. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/19 10:53 Mysterious contact #1Re: Vertrauen 6/19 10:40 3. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/18 14:16 Mysterious contact #1Re: Night 1 6/18 14:13 Mysterious contact #1Re: Night 1 6/18 10:16 Mysterious contact #1Re: Well Played. 6/17 12:25 2. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/17 05:21 Mysterious contact #1Re: ilovejonn case 6/17 00:37 Mysterious contact #1ilovejonn case 6/17 00:11 Mysterious contact #1Re: Vertrauen 6/16 23:59 1. sandroba XLII: Hi 6/16 09:15 Mysterious contact #1Re: n0 6/16 09:13 flamewheel XLII Masoning Sandroba 6/16 04:56 What they contain: 1. Me: Did anyone follow your plan? 2. Sandroba: Hey. I think you might be onto something in your demorcef analysis. Me: It´s not really an analysis in my opinion, I just posted to get discussion going again. 3. Sandroba: Care to post your opinions on my lists in the tread? Me: Sorry I´ve had a long night and am now going to sleep. I´ll catch up later. 4. Me: I apologize for not commenting on last night, but I was kinda drunk(friday after all). If you have anything you want a second opinion, just ask. What´s your opinion on Demorcerf? I want to know your own reasons to suspect him. 5. Sandroba: Please mason Node to safe him from Modkill Me: It´s not like he is active on other parts of TL. If he isn´t on TL, my PM will never reach him. 6. Sandroba: Do you have skype? My irc is acting up. Me: Yes I do. You can see it´s about 1 message per day until the 19th. Around that time we began talking in IRC. | ||
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Assume I am dumb until I explain every detail Assume I lied until I tell you exactly how I spend my PMs Assume that RoL may be innocent even though my story perfectly explains what happened + Show Spoiler + I am not here for others to assume I´m an idiot until proven otherwise. I am accepting masons for people for people who don´t want to organize through BC. No one has proven that BC is not the godfather. He did not do much day 1 and 2 because analysis only gets reliable day3 or after. All I see from here is he doubts I am able to execute one of the most basic plans you can do in Mafia. Do you know what I deem a bad plan? Telling your suspect an action via PM. Then if the action goes through assume your suspect is not scum because your action wasn´t roleblocked. 1. They know you are watching them. If the action gets roleblocked, guess what, you know exactly who did it. 2. If the action gets roleblocked, you will still get your suspect killed afterwards. This is about as intelligible a plan like RoL asking to be masoned by everyone to pressure people into scumslips in PM. You tell scum exactly what you intend to do, then hope they fall for it. If I executed my plan this way, I would have masoned RoL, told him I´m veteran and if I didn´t get hit, concluded he is green. My plan worked because RoL didn´t know that I knew that Sandroba told him about my claim. Probably RoLs last information was that Sandroba is suspicious of me. Like I stated in the middle of the message, I am accepting masons now. | ||
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The sad part is I have to record every single thing I say. I wasn´t aware of that. IRC kept crashing. | ||
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Rebirthoflegend - is to be lynched today/attacks YM BloodyC0bbler - Godfather/keeps finding reasons to play down my plan Mr.Wiggles - tries to salvage RoL by sheeping the YM attack Opz - distances himself from RoL already, began analysing votes of day 1 & day 2 for no reason Youngminii - "lynching rol or opz is a crapshoot, let´s lynch landenc" Seriously, am I hallucinating? All these players are supposed to promote discussion and pro town atmosphere from day 1. What actually happened is that the thread was incredibly inactive and RoL actually got away day 2 by waiting. You are not supposed to wait until the suspicion on you is gone. They all kept moderately active if you look at post numbers. But you can also find gems like: Mine has posted+ Show Spoiler + On June 20 2011 13:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote: So here is the dealio. No one, and I repeat no one shoots hiro. There are new developments that I cannot go into detail at this exact time to explain but no one takes a pot shot at him. I repeat until further notice, no hatter/vig shoots hiro When things are fleshed out more I will give you more info, but for the next bit of time keep your guns holstered. I can´t believe the apathy of our beloved vets. | ||
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VisceraEyes, Demorcerf and me are all suspicious? Hallelooja. I heard that all veterans are innocent and all people on the mafia-lead 2nd inactive lynch are innocent too? Oh, just don´t go around and FoS people who are recognized by name, why not complete the scumlist with Fudgemonkey, Jacinto and Shraft? | ||
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Could RoL know if Syllo or Hiro were blue? No, he didn´t. Would he be more credible when he attacks a lurker no one else had on the radar, through the sheer power of being a forum veteran? Yes, I do think so. I can´t remember RoL defending Hiro. Actually, I do remember you, BC, telling the town to shoot the survivor of the lynch anyway. Because you just don´t care. Oh wait, halfway through the night Sandroba said this On June 20 2011 13:01 sandroba wrote: RoL, why are you asking for DT checks on people on hiro's lynch while asking for a vig shot on hiro? That's like you are already assuming he will flip green. What the hell is your logic here? To which you answered this: You can´t say you didn´t call for shooting the survivor of the lynch. On June 20 2011 10:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Swaying argument in pm land has led me to believe syllo is a better lynch atm. vote syllogism Based on how both appeared on the lynch docket at roughly the same time and thread activity has spiked at the same time, I would gather 1 is red, whereas the possibility of a second is there it is not guarenteed. If the lynch flips green vig the survivor as that is who the red will be. Oh how very indifferent to who gets lynched. You don´t even try to find out which is red. Let´s just try and if it didn´t work, try again. I mean we have a lot of town players, it´s not like it´s important to minimize losses. | ||
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On June 22 2011 15:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 22 2011 15:09 youngminii wrote: Are you really thinking Mataza is scum? He's obviously 99% a vet. Uncharacteristic play from you. Eh? uncharacteristic? Not really. Someone claims "hi guys I caught a red" his entire argument gets debunked. When the game is also at a point where a misslynch royally fucks the town it is not unsurprising to assume mafia is trying something. At this stage in the game with only 1 red down, 5-11, 1 misslynch and a night of hits puts mafia in a position that only town kp can actually prevent the mafia from winning. You're damn right im suspicious. He comes out with a "solid plan" that was designed to catch a red. Rather than have the only real piece of proof needed to seal the deal it is strangely missing. The situation is now Mataza is scum. Believed roba had solidly "leaked" his role, and double stacked roba or shot hiro in hopes of getting RoL lynched. Or Mataza is vet, mafia shot roba and mataza and this entire situation is a total wtf shit. My piece of evidence that seals the deal is me being fucking alive after being shot. In other games this is regarded as being confirmed vet. Now either you think the scumteam is a band of clowns that devises plans like this: 1: Use both kills on a low-key townie 2: Let one of the really new players claim Veteran 3: Send this new player to accuse RebirthofLegend, a known forum veteran 4: Have a case with around 90% evidence through logs. Leave out the part that "seals the deal" because that´s how we roll 5: Attack all the other veteran players, too. Who cares? 6: get immediately found out after RoL flips. To which the sensible alternative is this: 1: Use both kills on RebirthofLegend to break medic protection 2: Sheep on inactive townie lynch #3 Tell me, Node was scum right, so tell me would Node approve this? Would he actually say yes, we have someone claiming veteran Day 1, only for him to throw it all away day 3 by attacking RoL with an incomplete case? You, fine sir, must be mad to think that. On the other, if Sand slipped, by accident, a blueclaim to RoL and then Sand as well as the blueclaim get hit at night, but the blueclaim is veteran and tells the tale of it, that is total wtf shit? | ||
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BC wrote on page 49: In that same token, you are annoyed I wanted to see hiro and syllogen flip. But Hiro was up for two lynches. Not 1, 2. He had been attacked by a ton of people, and flipped town. Syllogen appeared scummy but flipped town. Seeing the information provided when so much analysis and time had gone into that situation had to be given. Not only did hiro clear that, a red died, and we are left in a much better position than we were day 2. This is wrong on sooo many levels. RoL is right now up for his second lynch, too. It is also the first case to involve a blue and it would also be the first lynch to off a red. Up to now only GREENS have been up to be lynched. I may be missing something, but our information from day 1 and day 2 analysis are worth nothing. You can´t tell me you hit Node through that knowledge. I believe you are good, but I don´t believe you are a magician. How is our position any better than day 2? Why Node´s death doesn´t matter to scum: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4L4d9.jpg) If I was scum and I could ensure that no scum will be lynched for the rest of the game, I would totally do it. And that is why our situation is actually worse then day 2. Much worse. We magically caught a scum oh wondrous world. No analysis has been done on him. Sinani commited a vote to him. How the fuck did you "catch" Node? | ||
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We are at a point where town needs successfull vigihits to win the game. And guess who suddenly became a vig? Right, the dude on the chopping block. Look back at what´s happening, now look back here. The dude on the chopping block is now diamonds. Yes, it´s true one final piece of evidence is not here, Sandroba only told me he unmistakably told RoL that I am blue. He didn´t give me his Skype history. Also as we talked via IRC and I didn´t save every single line said I can´t prove that either. What I can prove is that I am alive and that nobody else claimed to be hit. And for that, there are only a couple of explanations: 1. My explanation: Sandroba told RoL I´m blue and we were both targeted by mafia. I survived because I am veteran. 2. Bloodyc0bblers explanation: I am scum. My team gave their ok to use 2 hits on Sandroba, because...(???), then the plan is for me, the newest player to go ahead and blame it on one off the forum veterans. With an incomplete case. + Show Spoiler + Now this is an extremely convoluted plan. It includes several risks for mafia. The much, much more logical approach would be to use the 2 hits not on Sandroba, but on the forum veteran we want to actually kill. Since the scumhits didn´t land anywyhere but on Sandroba or possibly Hiro, I would have to convince a scumteam of ~5 players that using 2 hits on Sandroba was somehow better than using 2 hits on RoL, when our goal is to kill RoL. Which is kind of a hard point to convince someone off because it is just so much worse than the alternative of just shooting him. 3. RoLs explanation: Sandroba overestimated the blueslip, so the plan did not work. Mataza is still veteran and should not be lynched in case RoL flips innocent. Absolutely no explanation why Sandroba and Mataza were hit in the same night. Now these are 3 different stories for the same event and it can only be 1 of them true. In the end it´s your call who to believe. My call however is that RoL is scum and that thinking Bloodyc0bbler, the godfather, could somehow repair the situation, and he commited to the hard to explain side of the argument. Now because people want analysis and extremely long posts, I present you this: BC wrote on page 49: In that same token, you are annoyed I wanted to see hiro and syllogen flip. But Hiro was up for two lynches. Not 1, 2. He had been attacked by a ton of people, and flipped town. Syllogen appeared scummy but flipped town. Seeing the information provided when so much analysis and time had gone into that situation had to be given. Not only did hiro clear that, a red died, and we are left in a much better position than we were day 2. Like I said before, this is wrong on sooo many levels. First of all, RoL is now up for his second lynch too. That doesn´t mean he should be flipped for "information" like Syllogism and Hiro yesterday. Yesterday it was ok to flip someone simply for being on the lynch vote twice, today it is not ok anymore. Now, luckily we have plenty of information from the previous lynches, right? Ilovejonn was green grassgiraffe was green hiro protagonist was blue Day 1 lynch tells us nothing, because scum were free to lynch anyone on the lynch RebirthofLegend wasn´t flipped yet syllogismwas green hiro protagonist was blue Day 2 gives us nothing to because the 2 highest lynches were both town. RoL scored only 2 votes at the end of the day, even though he was the first suspect. Scum never had to take a stand in the past lynches. There is no valid information to extract, unless you find scum by them explaining which townie they want to see more dead. Now after the day 2 lynch both RoL and BC were in favor that the survivor of the lynch should be shot for good measure. Then Hiro claimed his role. Suddenly after this roleclaim, BC found a third guy that was never up for shooting until this point, Node. This came practically out of thin air.BC literally pulled this out after Hiro claimed his role to him. If BC really was sure about Node, why didn´t he call for Hiro and Node to be shot? Now, again, how is our position any better than day 2? Thsi shows why Node´s death doesn´t matter to scum: The top numbers are the case if Hiro didn´t suicide kill Node The lower numbers are the case with Hiro suicide killing Node. As you can see, the game still would end on Night 4. Since the mafia KP only drops when their numbers go from 5 scum down to 4, it is reasonable safe to go from 6 scum down to 5. However, by killing Node with Hiro BC could strengthen his position. It was the first scum catch the entire game, so that is a lot of towncred. With enough towncred, you can make the town believe the things you believe and make them do what you propose. BC is a known forum veteran, so he starts with a bit of towncred already. So with just a little more towncred he can lead the town to 2 more mislynches, which is all that is needed for scum to win. Now BC is definitely a good player. After catching Node out of a sea of inactive players with barely anything, he must be smart right? On June 22 2011 15:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 22 2011 15:09 youngminii wrote: Are you really thinking Mataza is scum? He's obviously 99% a vet. Uncharacteristic play from you. Eh? uncharacteristic? Not really. Someone claims "hi guys I caught a red" his entire argument gets debunked. When the game is also at a point where a misslynch royally fucks the town it is not unsurprising to assume mafia is trying something. At this stage in the game with only 1 red down, 5-11, 1 misslynch and a night of hits puts mafia in a position that only town kp can actually prevent the mafia from winning. You're damn right im suspicious. He comes out with a "solid plan" that was designed to catch a red. Rather than have the only real piece of proof needed to seal the deal it is strangely missing. The situation is now Mataza is scum. Believed roba had solidly "leaked" his role, and double stacked roba or shot hiro in hopes of getting RoL lynched. Or Mataza is vet, mafia shot roba and mataza and this entire situation is a total wtf shit. Look back at the start, to the 3 explanations of the last night. He goes ahead and calls my explanation "total wtf shit" He also says I am scum, my plan was to use both mafia nightkills Sandroba or split between Sandroba and Hiro, and for RoL to tell everyone he is guilty for this plan to work. And for good measure my plan hinges on Sandroba leaking my role so that RoL would say he is guilty. My plan is the most simple explanation you can give for this. There is no way BC can actually think it is total wtf shit. Bloodyc0bbler for Godfather I am still accepting masons for people who do not want to organize through Godfather, the BloodyC0bbler. | ||
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However, by killing Node with Hiro, BC could strengthen his position. It was the first scum catch the entire game, so that is a lot of towncred. Hiro and BC were not clearly separated in this sentence. Hiro was used to kill Node and that act strengthens BC´s position. | ||
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[01:15:41] Mataza: masons, number of and names [01:15:57] RebirthofLegend: I just got wiggles [01:15:58] RebirthofLegend: I have BC [01:16:01] RebirthofLegend: youngminii [01:16:03] RebirthofLegend: sandroba [01:16:04] RebirthofLegend: aidnai [01:16:06] RebirthofLegend: opz [01:16:15] RebirthofLegend: I think that's it [01:16:21] RebirthofLegend: oh and you [01:16:28] Mataza: did you have someone who died, scamp for example? [01:16:30] RebirthofLegend: I requested opz and you [01:16:33] RebirthofLegend: no All the people on this list claimed open to be connected to RoL, except for Sandroba and BC. BC, everyone has BC. Sandroba was outed through my claim. If you are masoned to RoL and not on this list, then he tries to keep it a secret. He lied about the number of masons before, first 6 then 3 and now it turns out it was 5. RebirthofLegends plan is a farce: He says he wanted to survive the first night by being protected by one or more medics, because he has so many connections. What he first told us was he wanted to hunt scum in PMs, and because he didn´t do so he was on the chopping block day 2. He literally just watched Jack Bauer hunt scum instead. For those masoned to RoL: You chained yourself to a black hole, nothing you put in will come out after your death. And your death may come sooner than you think. If your backupmason is BC, tough luck, he is the same. | ||
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On June 23 2011 05:00 Kenpachi wrote: For this to be true, RoL cant be mafia (Or Flamewheel is the most evil villain in all of TLMafia) I mean, it would make sense if it was BC youngminii FudgeMunkey (Node is dead) 1 2 but the 1 or 2 cannot be RoL because i stated it early Based off the meta game, a BC/RoL team would be completely imbalanced and the town already lost from the start. Oh ya, arent you a lynch RoL advocate? You have a point, but as was said already, balance is a weak argument for someone to be scum or town. The way this game presents itself to me I´m inclined to heavily question everyone on the zodiac list. I wrote down the initial reactions of the players after I claimed veteran and my plan. Rebirthoflegend - is being attacked by Mataza/attacks YM BloodyC0bbler - keeps finding reasons to play down my plan Mr.Wiggles - tries to salvage RoL by sheeping the YM attack Opz - distances himself from RoL already, began analysing votes of day 1 & day 2 for no reason Youngminii - "lynching rol or opz is a crapshoot, let´s lynch landenc" And the one question I ask is, why does BC fight against my plan in order to save RoL? He tried really hard to debunk my plan and discredit my conclusion. He then came to the conclusion that my plan is extremely convoluted and the easy explanation is that I am scum doing a really laughable play. And that same person is the one who found Node in a sea of inactives that is half the players. By virtue of being on the zodiac list and not being helpful, unlike the other inactives who weren´t helping. Also the vets on this list had no comments for this at all. Only Youngminii commented on this, and he is the lynch proposed by RoL. Analysing votes was never helpful in a game without heavily debated lynchs or votelist checks. If these people are supposed to save the town with their experience, I damn well want to see at least something. "Newbie attacks RoL and BC, let´s analyse the day 1 and day 2 votes and distance ourself from RoL." This is NOT what I was expecting. | ||
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Votecounts Day 3 Vote Tally Votes for RebirthOfLeGenD (9): Mataza, youngminii, Shraft, Jacinto, GGQ, Kenpachi, sinani206, FudgeMunkey, VisceraEyes Votes for youngminii (5): RebirthOfLeGenD, Mr. Wiggles, Varpulis, ~Opz~, Bloodyc0bbler Look, it´s almost the entire zodiac list. BloodyC0bbler Mr.Wiggles Opz Youngminii I don´t believe in coincidences. I don´t believe the results of last night just looked like my plan worked, but actually didn´t. I don´t believe that Bloodyc0bbler actually thinks it is the best explanation that I am scum with a very questionable plan. I don´t believe that everyone on the zodiac list has had very few comments for this and in unison think that youngminii is scum, when RoL should be under heavy suspicion again. I don´t believe that RoL is a vigilante. Fact is there has been no scum on the lynch block yet. Aside from RoL, all major suspects flipped innocent. RoL is the only person to get away alive from being nearly lynched. I don´t think this is a coincidence either. | ||
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We are 16 players right now. Scum have 3 kp, if they lose one member before the night, they are down to 2 kp. Let´s assume first that RoL is innocent and Vigilante and just loves Jack Bauer: 11 Townies against 5 scum 1.1 We lynch right. RoL shoots right. Scum can only kill 2 people. Tomorrow we are at 9 town against 3 scum. 1.2 We lynch right. RoL shoots wrong. Scum can only kill 2 people. Tomorrow it´s 8 vs 4. 1.3 We lynch wrong. RoL shoots right. Scum can kill 3 people. Tomorrow it´s 7 vs 4. 1.4 We lynch wrong and we shoot wrong. We are fucked. 6 town vs 5 scum. Now you say you think RoL might be scum. Let´s assume that next. 11 townies against 5 scum 2.1 We lynch right. No shooting. Scum can only kill 2 people. Tomorrow it´s 9 vs 4. 2.2 We lynch wrong, still no shooting. Scum can kill 3 people. Tomorrow it´s 7 vs 5. Now as you can see it is extremely important we lynch right today because it will affect scum kp. You tell me that Fudgemonkey was buddying with Youngminii? How about BC giving his all to stop RoL from being lynched. Or you with RoL for that matter? But I digress, because you, ~Opz~, were the first to agree with RoL that a dead thread is a towntell. On June 19 2011 12:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Remember that thing I said about a dead thread being an obvious tell...? On June 19 2011 12:33 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'm in complete agreement with RoL, tbh. I also vividly remember that you voted for me, because I doubted RoL. That was your entire line of reasoning. On June 19 2011 10:30 ~OpZ~ wrote: ....How would you know if he didn't PM anything serious to one of his PM buddies if you don't mind me asking? You get my vote for that... No ones questioned my disappearance? And then you proceeded to stealth bandwagon onto syllogism. No reason was given in the thread. Also you 2 inscenated a play that not so stealthily tells everyone you are vigilante, ~Opz~. On June 20 2011 08:37 ~OpZ~ wrote: I've decided to give RoL a chance....I'm still going to be willing to vote for him. On June 20 2011 08:38 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: OpZ you should just wait until night time then vigi me again. On June 20 2011 08:55 ~OpZ~ wrote: Can only hit once, sry. So by this we know that you both obviously talked about roles in your PMs. Also this little quip suggests that RoL is Veteran, not Vigilante. This is the exact opposite of what he is now claiming. Care to talk your way out of this? | ||
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On June 23 2011 06:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Wait, you realize you just were trying to use a "host would balance the game" argument, and then posred that me, wiggles, BC, and opz must be scum..? You do realize that would be IMBALANCED and UNLIKELY of a team. Look at these voting wagons, the only people standing up to my railroad and siding with me are veterans, you know why? They can see I am town. Those people voting against me and those refusing to commentate on this situation and just sheep fucking voted for me? Yeah, they are scum. You are being so damn headstrong for no reason man. No, if you read what I wrote, my point is that balance is an absolute weak argument. OpZ used it. On June 23 2011 06:05 ~OpZ~ wrote: Further evidence backing up RoL's case against youngminii and fudgemonkey. Personally I would rather we just move all the votes to fudgemonkey, allow RoL to Vig YM at night (given he is actually a vig), and go from there. That seriously seems like the best course of action, because if YM isn't red, then it's down to BC and RoL. AND WHERE THE FUCK IS KANTBEUSEFULCHI?! He quotes someone mentioning balance and states it is evidence for Youngminii and Fudgemonkey to be scum. | ||
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On June 23 2011 06:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: It's not the same, trust me. It WILL clear up a discrepancy if he flips what I think he will flip. I didn't walk into this half heartedly. I know what I am doing and if you trust both of my analysis, and you trust my innocence then you need to follow through with the plan I have layed out. Being innocent doesn´t mean you are right. | ||
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On June 23 2011 08:07 DeMorcerf wrote: + Show Spoiler + Honestly, my brain doesn't even work right now. I apologize for that but this week I've been exhausted by 12-hours days as a camp counselor. I think that both Varpulis and Wiggles are town, so I'm going to vote with them against ym who led us wrong on prior lynch candidates. (Also ym is asking for my death, but I know I'm town.) That's bad logic, but it's the best my mind can do right now. What is this is I don´t even.... I know my points appear weaker when Bloodyc0bbler, RebirthofLegend and Opz all discuss against me. In your head, make an entire scum team able to do what they did, which was not having a single person on the chopping block for 2 days and sniping 2 detectives and 1 medic. Opz brings setup balance as an argument to lynch youngminii, no joke. People say Youngminii is guilty because he led the lynch on ILJ day 1? Guess who led the lynch on syllogism on day 2? It was RebirthofLegend. He gunned for a lurker back then and is now gunning for a lurker, Fudgemonkey again. He stated he would prefer lynching Fudgemonkey over Youngminii even. | ||
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I do in fact believe I am not retarded. And making huge ass, 3 page long point by point analysises is not a good point. If your argument was strong, you could confine it into one paragraph, with the rest of your analysis just backing that one up. Luckily at least a couple of players can be swayed onto your train of thought by just making them read paragraph after paragraph after paragraph of you spewing slightly comprehendable rambling at them. Your analysis is long, I give you that. But there are only 2 possibilities that I am wrong: -Happenstance. It purely randomly just happened that Sandroba and I were targeted by mafia. -Information error. Now I am not allowed to ask Sandroba for his Skype history. But I believe what he told me, as for example the part about him masoning BC, which BC verified. It´s actually not important how strong the bluetell you received was. What is important is, who could have fucked this over? I didn´t even tell my only other contact. Sandroba didn´t tell it to someone else either. If he did tell it to someone else, I´m going to be mad. I told you already in Skype, but I think it was good metaphor: If you threw a rock over a wall and then climbed over the wall and you find a rock a few meters behind the wall, what would you conclude? I conclude that it is the rock I threw. Your conclusion is that the rock vanished in mid air and the rock behind the wall was already there. We dropped a bluetell to you in PM and the only 2 people knowing about it were attacked by mafia at night. I say this is because you *are* the mafia. YOU say you didn´t receive a bluetell and Sandroba and I were attacked randomly. I didn´t go collect all the little pebbles that fell off the rock. The big evidence I need is me being still alive. Any theory that goes along the lines of "Scum doublestacked Sandroba in order to kill RoL" is backwards logic. You don´t punch yourself in the face if you want to hurt someone else. Fuck I wrote too long.... | ||
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BC SCUM. ROL SCUM. If you are a Vig or a hatter, take a coin, flip it: If it lands tails kill Rebirthoflegend, If it lands heads kill Bloodyc0bbler. Medics you roll a die. If it lands 5 or 6, you choose for yourself. If it lands 1,2 3,4 you protect me. I am the blueest bro in town and I just lost my last mason, Youngminii. I knew he was green because scum tunneled him. They wouldn´t bus now, because it would drop their kp to 2. Assuming Youngminii was scum too along with RoL is also backwards ass logic. | ||
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It is a losing move to actually go ahead and get a scum killed when it drops your kp. Remember, FoS are free, but lynching comes at a price. | ||
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I would wager that everyone on the RoL train is clean, aside from Kenpachi. He voteswitched back and forth, meaning Youngminii had priority over RoL at equal votes. Also Kenpachi did say Bloodyc0bbler could be godfather day 1, but he didn´t really support me day 3 with my gf thesis. | ||
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On June 23 2011 09:38 flamewheel wrote: Day 3 Vote Tally Votes for RebirthOfLeGenD (8): Mataza, Votes for youngminii (8) [first]: RebirthOfLeGenD, Mr. Wiggles, Varpulis, ~OpZ~, BloodyC0bbler, Shraft, LandenC, DeMorcerf 1 hour and 6 minutes remain in the day. Oh look, the Zodiac list is still entirely on youngminii, no second guessing even for a single minute. | ||
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On June 23 2011 11:34 Kenpachi wrote: after all this shit, the first correct accusation might have been mine You don´t score for it because you didn´t fucking help me. | ||
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Bloodyc0bbler is the Godfather I don´t know, maybe it wasn´t highlighted enough. | ||
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I am calling the shots now. If you are a Vig or a hatter, take a coin, flip it: If it lands tails kill Rebirthoflegend, If it lands heads kill Bloodyc0bbler. Medics you roll a die. If it lands 5 or 6, you choose for yourself. If it lands 1,2 3,4 you protect me. In case you don´t know who to choose for yourself, you can still choose me. I wouldn´t be surprised to receive mutiple hits tonight. I am still accepting Mason requests by anyone. You may formally request to be masoned to me in the thread but I can´t guarantee everyone a spot. | ||
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Conclusion: I believe my mason with Mataza is partially to blame for the blue-sniping being so damned accurate this game. Interesting conclusion. You have given me "I think Hiro is scum" then you give "Oh F*** I think he´s a blue. a bad blue, but a blue" Then someone else picks up on Hiro and you give me "Well played scum, I will never talk to you again" You were angry you weren´t involved in the Sandroba plot? Guess what, even though I don´t think you are scum, you could have very well given it to someone(so. was Node )if you had a paranoia attack again. (This is not your first, this is the second paranoia attack you had this game.) When I talked to RoL, *YOU* said me I shouldn´t listen to him and that I am being swayed to think he is innocent. That I should be more headstrong and refuse to talk to him. And *NOW* you are the one thinking RoL is innocent. Balance is a horrible argument. I will start believing in player balance when flamewheel comes out here and starts listing player strength rankings. But first of all, how the HELL did you help me snipe blues? You have given me exactly Hiro, no one else. The dead blues, chaos13, Mig and Scamp, we never even talked about them. How did you being masoned to me lead to these people dying? I don´t see it! This game may not revolve solely around me, but it doesn´t revolve around you either. Just for your information I was also hard pressed to lynch a scum yesterday, for the same reason RoL was. Nay, even more so because I wanted to drop mafia kp. If BC actually thought RoL is innocent and I am scum and that our plan was to assume that there are not only several Doctors in game, but that they were on all on the one vet we shoot(TL Doctors are notoriously bad -.-), I am losing my faith in BC as a logical thinking player. He called my scenario "total wtf shit". A 3-step scenario with no leaps in logic. Tell someone you are blue, have them tell someone else, survive the hit. If that is "total wtf shit", then I am obviously too dumb to see the easy explanation. | ||
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Seriously. There is the whole zodiac list of players who are accredited of being able to save the whole town. It´s not only RoL. BC is a better primary target. And don´t argue for BC. I didn´t force him to say that I am scum, that we are in a much better position than ever before in this game(while we are actually one day before lylo) and that what my plan is useless if I don´t have the piece of text where Sandroba tells RoL of my blueness. With the amount of interest RoL showed this game there would be no sense in lynching him with *any plan*. He promised things he didn´t do(PM pressure), he defended himself by waiting 20 hours and his alternative was a mislynch that had a very good sounding case. Sorry I am not as suave a writer. He didn´t do anything and he lied about his intentions with his mason plot and his number of masons, so why even bother killing him from scum perspective? | ||
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On June 24 2011 02:53 VisceraEyes wrote: I can assure you it all fits...even if it's WIFOM, that doesn't make it wrong. It only makes it WIFOM. But really, there's NOTHING that condemns RoL that occured yesterday. Not one thing. ESPECIALLY his lynch of YM. How is it his fault if a bunch of townies foolishly voted for YM based on weak analysis and basically just the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY OF ONE OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED AND RECOGNIZED VETERANS? You YOURSELF said it was weak analysis. Being wrong does not equal being scum. BEING WRONG DOES NOT EQUAL BEING SCUM. You want Meta? Mataza tried to get Town to commit to some kind of super-power-play in SNMMII, and he was lynched for it. By the way Mataza, you never DID clear up what exactly that was, and I've always wanted to know...just never remembered to ask. You want proof? I have none. I have only my story and my theory. I'm open to suggestions on how to clear it up, but I firmly believe that RoL is being set up. If I live through the night, I will NOT support his lynch tomorrow unless town is ABSOLUTELY set on it...by a VAST majority. Right up to the point where it becomes ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN town wants him to live, I'm pushing Mataza as hard as I can. The weak analysis was the best RoL could do. ONE OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED AND RECOGNIZED VETERANS. Stop worshipping veterans. They are not gods. They don´t win the game for us. I doubt they are even trying. You have no proof? Wonderful. You are just being paranoid. There is the law of Occam´s razor. If several explanations are possible, it is usually the one that is the least complicated. The game has nearly gone to shitz now. You only cling to the hope that RoL is vigilante. Vigilante´s are unblockable by roleblockers, so RoL is still able to shoot Fudgemonkey if he really thinks he is scum. You say being wrong doesn´t mean RoL is scum. But I am scum whether or not I am right? You told me to not be convinced by RoL that he is innocent. What is the deal with you? [02:45] <Mataza> it looks like it worked as it should [02:45] <Mataza> so I am not going to assume it failed [02:46] <VisceraEyes> True...and I see that you're going through with it in his name...but I can also see that RoL has swayed you. [02:46] <VisceraEyes> You no longer think he's scum..somehow [02:46] <VisceraEyes> MY point is that you have to factor in the VAST experience RoL has in convincing people he's not scum...and that some other sap is. Remember this? You reassured me that RoL can only be scum and now I am guilty for that? | ||
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Everyone has 2 masons. I am your mason Sandroba and YM are my masons. I am the mason of a couple of other people. You are officially out of my communication until you stop flailing. because if you flail, you might spill every little thing to the thread. | ||
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If I am right(and the scum know before I do), then everyone able to talk to me has a huge target strapped to their back also. What is YOUR plan beyond killing me? You have a townsaving plan? The assumption that scum blue snipe like awesome and then switch into a 1:1 trade short before lylo is the most far fetched thing I ever heard. You are now of the opinion of Bloodyc0bbler. GZ. | ||
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On June 24 2011 03:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Occam's razor says that mafia just shot you and sandroba with no ulterior motives. @RoL If you're a vig announce your hit a couple minutes before the day post if possible If you're scum, show up dead in the day post, or shoot one of your team mates, please. :p This is the first time that anyone ever argues it may be coincidence. Now this can´t explain the bluesnipe quote. If there is anything one thesis cannot cover you are allowed to go one level higher on complexity. | ||
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3/6 is a 50% hitrate for blues, which is quite a good quota I imagine. Sorry, in german quota is written quote. I could also say hitrate. | ||
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That you are scum trying to paint me red so we waste our town roles by killing me, which would cause the town to kill RoL tomorrow and BC to not die at all. This is possible Viscera, you can´t deny that. No action does paint anyone in any alignment. If a Veteran surviving a nighthit is not a proof, then talking is out of question as proof of alignment. Of course you know your alignment and I know that you tend to have paranoid phases. In PTP it was possible that BC was scum for getting you lynched , that´s why you killed him. You can´t paint every possibility on the wall and pick the one you fear the most and say it must be true. | ||
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We know Sandroba was townsided. There are 2 possibilities:
Assuming I am town and did not lie about my plan against RoL. There 2 possibilities for how the outcome of the night happened:
Now, assuming Sandroba didn´t lie to me, I am not lying(because townies generally don´t have a reason to lie) and that RoL is innocent, then there must be some reason visible in the thread. If scum actually hit me and Sandroba for shits and giggles, then they probably didn´t even talk yesterday because there was no reason to talk. | ||
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On June 24 2011 04:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Note, I didn't say "PROVE my statement" I said "PROVE the credibility of my statement". You just keep digging yourself into a hole, Mataza. And GGQ, the fact that you're only questioning and responding to me leads me to believe that you're defending Mataza and it WILL be reflected on your permanent record.  Yes, because Node defended me and is scum it means that GGQ defending me is scum too. We are truly lucky that BC did defend RoL yesterday because they are probably both vigilantes. | ||
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Look back at what you assume to be possible. Realise it is possible but like the most unlikey thing ever. Look back at me. I am hunting the most likely explanation. Now look back to your possibility. Now back to my theory. The hole I am digging is now the trench of my fortress of reasons why the stuff happening in this game is actually happening. Please start thinking in Cause-and-Effect ways of thinking. Stuff doesn´t happen for shits and giggles. | ||
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The night this occured we were 19 players, including Hiro. I forgot to include Hiro the last time, my fault. So we were 19 players 6 of them scum. That means 13 town players who can be hit by the scum. The chance for any of the 13 townies to be hit by one kp is 1/13, or 7.69 % The chance for one of 12 townies to be hit is 1/12, or 8.33% To be really simple about this, the chance that 2 specific players are hit is the combination of this: 0.0769 multiplied with 0.08333 The result of this simple math is 0.64% Before I used 1/12 and 1/11 which made the chance appeared higher than it actually was. | ||
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The mathematical chance that Sandroba and I were both hit for no reason is very fucking low. Btw, scum don´t only defend other scum players. If I am scum, I defended Youngminii. Youngminii is innocent. Node defended me. Node was scum. Am I scum for that? How about Youngminii? Would he be scum if he was not already dead, because I defended him? You are being deluded by BC and RoL´s arguments from yesterday. They are not even arguing now. Guess why? If you get me killed, people will blame you. Not BC or whoever planted this idea in your head with their words. | ||
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On June 24 2011 05:30 Mataza wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2011 04:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Note, I didn't say "PROVE my statement" I said "PROVE the credibility of my statement". You just keep digging yourself into a hole, Mataza. And GGQ, the fact that you're only questioning and responding to me leads me to believe that you're defending Mataza and it WILL be reflected on your permanent record. Yes, because Node defended me and is scum it means that GGQ defending me is scum too. We are truly lucky that BC did defend RoL yesterday because they are probably both vigilantes. Woohey, I am clairvoyant. BC is vig now too! Any other vigs in this game? Man we have a lot of these guys in here. This is hilarious. | ||
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Get the Daypost out please. | ||
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Fuck that, Varpulis was masoned to me and all. I already miss him. VisceraEyes is dead too. I am all alone now. Selling utter Horseshit as truth is a sign of being the Horse care taker it seems. | ||
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I need someone to talk to! | ||
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Woopdefrickingdoo. Does someone have a better idea than putting RebirthofLegend on trial for the third time? I bet something is coming and making someone else get lynched again. | ||
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It´s nothing personal, but so far I am only proven right by the events. | ||
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Every night is LYLO NIGHT! Rejoice! Unless someone out there still has bullets, a firstaid-and-clairvoyance kit or is too hardcore to die from just 1 bullet. Mason me. For great justice! | ||
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Give me a minute to write something up. | ||
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He is telling me stuff. Evil stuff. But I most stand strong. You see, I am the boy who survived. No one else ever survived being attacked. I am Harry Potter. RebirthofLegend is the evil wizard that cannot be killed and that is tied to me until we both die. He is Voldemort. This is now Harry Potter mafia. And for that reason I feel that we cannot kill RoL until the last day, when it is 3-man lylo. Now to find RoL´s horcrux thingies which must be destroyed in order for him to be destroyed I have devised a plan: Jacinto, Fudgemonkey, Shraft, Landenc, Demorcerf and Sinani206, this is all about you 6. Look back at last night, we tried to kill BC and RoL but we could only kill one. Now look back here. It is fate that we can´t kill RoL yet. Look back at the top of this page, where I posted that every is lylo night from now on. Now look back here+ Show Spoiler + This thread is now a Colosseum! ![[image loading]](http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00278/rom__DW_WebWelt_ROM_278773a.jpg) You 6 are going to enter this colosseum and are to argue and discuss amongst each other for the good of the town, or in other words my entertainment and by extension RebirthofLegends entertainment. But beware: 6 guys go in, 6 guys come out. But only 1 will have won and will have 3 votes. In around 20 hours the victor will be decided. Let the games begin. | ||
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Nothing much. Now get out there and discuss with the others. | ||
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Shraft has as of right now over 9000 points more than everyone else. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3kqxh.jpg) (This is only the first draft of evaluation criteria. "Good looks" will be dropped, "Pictures of cats" seems pretty valid though) | ||
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I will decide that the alphabetical first player to not talk is lynched. Right now it´s Demorcerf. | ||
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That´s Fudgemunkey for you. Get talking or get shot. | ||
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If you are masoned to one of the other galdiators, feel free to use the PMs you exchanged to accuse one another. You are all unreadable. Whoever of Mr. wiggles and GGQ is not already scum will be dead tomorrow. Then we are at the same situation as now. That is why you all must begin talking now. If you don´t talk, then why the hell do you even sign up? ##vote DeMorcerf | ||
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That´s what the Colosseum is for. We know rather well were we all stand, but you 6 are clean slates. Now, according to what I think there 1, 2 or 3 scum in the 6 of you. If you are as silent as them, maybe you know how to find the scum among you? If you guys would talk, no one of us "evil, oppressing players" would interfere. You still haven´t voiced any opinion yet besides that we should know why you don´t talk(which I do not). | ||
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That will automatically open a search for the posts said player wrote. That is how I do it usually. | ||
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I have been pushing my opinion in small and medium length posts all game. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
It was a heated discussion between Shraft and....nobody else actually. Sinani206 was the only other guy to post and his only comment was he is happy to be the one to be pressured last. Now Round 2: Accusathron starts! You have to state whether or not you find these players suspicious: GGQ, RebirthofLegend and Mr. Wiggles. You are still encouraged to look for the scum hiding among you 6: DeMorcerf, Fudgemunkey, Jacinto, Landenc, Sinani206, Shraft | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
We have 3 nights of Lynch right or Lose coming up. If we don´t get anything out of you less outspoken people, and you don´t have any information or opinion yourself, then I don´t see much hope. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I don´t have any. If we lynch RoL, a combination of Wiggles, you and me is being shot tonight, which leaves tomorrow to one guy who talks at all. And to win we must get to the day *after* that. Or we have a really good vig in the audience. I don´t want anymore. I´m not here to tell others what to think and who to vote. There is 1 scum or more in the 6 lurkers. If we can´t find him now, good luck finding him later. (Hint: He is not going to say anything) (Another hint: The others aren´t going to say anything either) | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 25 2011 12:04 FudgeMunkey wrote: Rather than lynching me save the lynches for actual mafia. If you really want me dead then just Vig me at night... You do realise that vig hitting wrong also means we lose? We cannot lose another townie to townside kp unless we get a magical blue action directly after it. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Now I am ready to go by an odd bit of advice I picked up on Epicmafia: If you are in lylo and you must either lynch a person who´s been scummy all game long or someone who´s been clean and pro town, you should probably lynch the clean pro townplayer. Or in another way, some of the players here have such bad posts in general that scum would have begun prewriting their posts days ago. With that in mind let´s look again: Jacinto - Has less than 10 posts.... In his posts it shows that he has no clue what is going on. Sinani - A couple more posts than 10. Very active in the beginning, than he was at the grand canyon LandenC - Only like 10 posts also. Just look at some posts. He agrees BC may be the godfather, for example. Promising to make a post, yet 2 hours later it didn´t get that long. If he really has the opinions he shows in his posts, he would have plenty reasons to post more. Lurkers lurk because they don´t know what to say. If you have something to say and just don´t post, you are withholding. Demorcerf - Has also like 10 posts or so. He notices nodes inactivity, and then vanishes himself for almost a day. Now this is interesting. Here´s the quote: On June 18 2011 15:54 DeMorcerf wrote: @aidnai and wiggles: [removedspoiler] @aidnai With my inexperience, I'm not going to claim to know anyone is definitively mafia -- I will post to say what strikes me as particularly suspicious or strange. (I'll post my opinion on hiro after I sleep.) wiggles and someone else pointed a finger at GGQ on d1, I don't see it yet; he seems to be playing similar to game I played with him before where he was town. @wiggles, I don't think I was brought as a candidate for lynching except by sandroba, who then retracted saying he had misread my post. Either way, I understand why you'd be bothered by my lack of contribution; it's not intentional.[spoilerend] On grassg and jacinto: + Show Spoiler + In my opinion, I would have thought that if grassg or jacinto were mafia, their teammates would have given them better direction by now, but by the same token if they were overwhelmed newb town they could have made some note of that as well. It's suspicious certainly, but they just seem quite inactive or disinterested. On Jacinto, he made his first post in a few different threads before finding the right one, it was a decent enough post, but his second and last post advocated killing lurkers that don't start posting because "if we don't and they happen to be mafia, we're gonna be in trouble" -- that was over 32 hours ago, (I'll admit I got busy and was afk for a similar time period) so maybe he'll still return. But grassg's lack of any real post seems unlikely to change; why didn't he just let himself be modkilled. FudgeMunkey and RoL had an extensive exchange at the start where Fudge told people not to mason RoL (or mason in general til later in the game). Then: + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2011 15:59 FudgeMunkey wrote: Yes, I agree with 'youngminii'... It seems as if the 'scum' never seem to support a strategy and instead find ways to make it look like its incorrect/false or just plain stupid... They hope to make it look like the person there arguing with is obviously Scum rather than townie or Blue. Look at this: He say he is inexperienced and won´t know definitely someone as scum. And then later he suggests that FudgeM is very likely scum, because "Why would a town" do this. Also highlighted "Don´t think that I know whether or not Sinani is town" -> It´s a preemptive defence. No one has accused him, yet he goes and explains something. In this case that he didn´t have certain knowledge that scum for example would have. First of all, townies usually believe someone is town. There is never someone knowing and excusing yourself for not magically knowing is just unnecessary. That is why I strongly suspect Demorcerf and LandenC to be mafia. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
We needed to unearth at least something today so we don´t go into tomorrow without even trying. Shraft has won the Colisseum by default. I was really looking forward to make a lot of Harry Potter references for the next 3 days with me as "the boy who survived" and RoL as "You know who" who keeps whispering in my ear until we have the final showdown at 3 way lylo. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
You must fight to ther bitter end! | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
OH MY GOD! HE WASN´T DIAMONDS! | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Also yes that 100% of regularly speaking was scum.... Thanks for lying, then lying and then lying a bit more RoL. Was awesome anyway. And Sandroba leaked the plan while drunk? Really? | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 26 2011 01:31 Mataza wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Hooray, we are in a world of trouble it seems. Now I am ready to go by an odd bit of advice I picked up on Epicmafia: If you are in lylo and you must either lynch a person who´s been scummy all game long or someone who´s been clean and pro town, you should probably lynch the clean pro townplayer. Or in another way, some of the players here have such bad posts in general that scum would have begun prewriting their posts days ago. With that in mind let´s look again: Jacinto - Has less than 10 posts.... In his posts it shows that he has no clue what is going on. Sinani - A couple more posts than 10. Very active in the beginning, than he was at the grand canyon LandenC - Only like 10 posts also. Just look at some posts. He agrees BC may be the godfather, for example. Promising to make a post, yet 2 hours later it didn´t get that long. If he really has the opinions he shows in his posts, he would have plenty reasons to post more. Lurkers lurk because they don´t know what to say. If you have something to say and just don´t post, you are withholding. Demorcerf - Has also like 10 posts or so. He notices nodes inactivity, and then vanishes himself for almost a day. Now this is interesting. Here´s the quote: On June 18 2011 15:54 DeMorcerf wrote: @aidnai and wiggles: [removedspoiler] @aidnai With my inexperience, I'm not going to claim to know anyone is definitively mafia -- I will post to say what strikes me as particularly suspicious or strange. (I'll post my opinion on hiro after I sleep.) wiggles and someone else pointed a finger at GGQ on d1, I don't see it yet; he seems to be playing similar to game I played with him before where he was town. @wiggles, I don't think I was brought as a candidate for lynching except by sandroba, who then retracted saying he had misread my post. Either way, I understand why you'd be bothered by my lack of contribution; it's not intentional.[spoilerend] On grassg and jacinto: + Show Spoiler + In my opinion, I would have thought that if grassg or jacinto were mafia, their teammates would have given them better direction by now, but by the same token if they were overwhelmed newb town they could have made some note of that as well. It's suspicious certainly, but they just seem quite inactive or disinterested. On Jacinto, he made his first post in a few different threads before finding the right one, it was a decent enough post, but his second and last post advocated killing lurkers that don't start posting because "if we don't and they happen to be mafia, we're gonna be in trouble" -- that was over 32 hours ago, (I'll admit I got busy and was afk for a similar time period) so maybe he'll still return. But grassg's lack of any real post seems unlikely to change; why didn't he just let himself be modkilled. FudgeMunkey and RoL had an extensive exchange at the start where Fudge told people not to mason RoL (or mason in general til later in the game). Then: + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2011 15:59 FudgeMunkey wrote: Yes, I agree with 'youngminii'... It seems as if the 'scum' never seem to support a strategy and instead find ways to make it look like its incorrect/false or just plain stupid... They hope to make it look like the person there arguing with is obviously Scum rather than townie or Blue. Look at this: He say he is inexperienced and won´t know definitely someone as scum. And then later he suggests that FudgeM is very likely scum, because "Why would a town" do this. Also highlighted "Don´t think that I know whether or not Sinani is town" -> It´s a preemptive defence. No one has accused him, yet he goes and explains something. In this case that he didn´t have certain knowledge that scum for example would have. First of all, townies usually believe someone is town. There is never someone knowing and excusing yourself for not magically knowing is just unnecessary. That is why I strongly suspect Demorcerf and LandenC to be mafia. Bam! I guessed the millers right, lol. Some things here happened really strange. I caught BC because I thought RoL was scum. I was sure that Wiggles and RoL wouldn´t be same team as Wiggles reacted to my accusation by sheeping RoL´s YM lynch without a second thought. I had Jacinto for a moment, also GGQ, but then the RoL incident happened, which led to BC <.< This shit was bananas, don´t deny it. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 27 2011 07:12 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Oh, haha. So tat actually is what the slip was supposed to be? Not very strong then, as far as laying a trap goes :p You tell me. There are a lot of "ifs" and "buts" to it. I will never again just believe someone he did something, because he says so. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I overheard that Sandroba went ahead and told BC who he suspects, and it was along the lines of Wiggles/GGQ/one other scum. Afaik he did only share it with BC, and BC obviously couldn´t let him live after that. I was shot because.........I think as a medicsnipe. I did not know that Sandroba painted a huge target on his back to someone else and that´s why my trap didn´t work out. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Though giving everyone a set amount for the entire game makes masoning decisions very difficult: Mason people now(who probably die) or save it for later in the game(when you under circumstances won´t need them anymore) What I would at least try out is giving out masons over time. For example, 1 mason per day spendable anytime. You can still save your day 1 mason and connect to 2 people at day 2, but you don´t need to hold on to your masonpower for a lategame that may or may not happen. Because, that´s how I felt. It wasn´t only the decision who to mason, but also when to decide to. Dunno, but a lot of people never spend a mason, according to this. So, in my opinion the mechanic should be more encouraging to use. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Also I don´t see how a blue circle could form with that any better or worse than with 2 masons +1 mason(day3). The only difference is that if you go to day 4 you aren´t fucked out of PMs because you chose people who die earlier. You may have misunderstood, maybe. It´s 1 mason day1 + 1 mason day2 +1mason day3 +1 mason day4 etc. Not that you get 2 additional masons day2 and 3 additional mason day3. | ||
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