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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
However, by killing Node with Hiro, BC could strengthen his position. It was the first scum catch the entire game, so that is a lot of towncred. Hiro and BC were not clearly separated in this sentence. Hiro was used to kill Node and that act strengthens BC´s position. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
[01:15:41] Mataza: masons, number of and names [01:15:57] RebirthofLegend: I just got wiggles [01:15:58] RebirthofLegend: I have BC [01:16:01] RebirthofLegend: youngminii [01:16:03] RebirthofLegend: sandroba [01:16:04] RebirthofLegend: aidnai [01:16:06] RebirthofLegend: opz [01:16:15] RebirthofLegend: I think that's it [01:16:21] RebirthofLegend: oh and you [01:16:28] Mataza: did you have someone who died, scamp for example? [01:16:30] RebirthofLegend: I requested opz and you [01:16:33] RebirthofLegend: no All the people on this list claimed open to be connected to RoL, except for Sandroba and BC. BC, everyone has BC. Sandroba was outed through my claim. If you are masoned to RoL and not on this list, then he tries to keep it a secret. He lied about the number of masons before, first 6 then 3 and now it turns out it was 5. RebirthofLegends plan is a farce: He says he wanted to survive the first night by being protected by one or more medics, because he has so many connections. What he first told us was he wanted to hunt scum in PMs, and because he didn´t do so he was on the chopping block day 2. He literally just watched Jack Bauer hunt scum instead. For those masoned to RoL: You chained yourself to a black hole, nothing you put in will come out after your death. And your death may come sooner than you think. If your backupmason is BC, tough luck, he is the same. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 23 2011 05:00 Kenpachi wrote: For this to be true, RoL cant be mafia (Or Flamewheel is the most evil villain in all of TLMafia) I mean, it would make sense if it was BC youngminii FudgeMunkey (Node is dead) 1 2 but the 1 or 2 cannot be RoL because i stated it early Based off the meta game, a BC/RoL team would be completely imbalanced and the town already lost from the start. Oh ya, arent you a lynch RoL advocate? You have a point, but as was said already, balance is a weak argument for someone to be scum or town. The way this game presents itself to me I´m inclined to heavily question everyone on the zodiac list. I wrote down the initial reactions of the players after I claimed veteran and my plan. Rebirthoflegend - is being attacked by Mataza/attacks YM BloodyC0bbler - keeps finding reasons to play down my plan Mr.Wiggles - tries to salvage RoL by sheeping the YM attack Opz - distances himself from RoL already, began analysing votes of day 1 & day 2 for no reason Youngminii - "lynching rol or opz is a crapshoot, let´s lynch landenc" And the one question I ask is, why does BC fight against my plan in order to save RoL? He tried really hard to debunk my plan and discredit my conclusion. He then came to the conclusion that my plan is extremely convoluted and the easy explanation is that I am scum doing a really laughable play. And that same person is the one who found Node in a sea of inactives that is half the players. By virtue of being on the zodiac list and not being helpful, unlike the other inactives who weren´t helping. Also the vets on this list had no comments for this at all. Only Youngminii commented on this, and he is the lynch proposed by RoL. Analysing votes was never helpful in a game without heavily debated lynchs or votelist checks. If these people are supposed to save the town with their experience, I damn well want to see at least something. "Newbie attacks RoL and BC, let´s analyse the day 1 and day 2 votes and distance ourself from RoL." This is NOT what I was expecting. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Votecounts Day 3 Vote Tally Votes for RebirthOfLeGenD (9): Mataza, youngminii, Shraft, Jacinto, GGQ, Kenpachi, sinani206, FudgeMunkey, VisceraEyes Votes for youngminii (5): RebirthOfLeGenD, Mr. Wiggles, Varpulis, ~Opz~, Bloodyc0bbler Look, it´s almost the entire zodiac list. BloodyC0bbler Mr.Wiggles Opz Youngminii I don´t believe in coincidences. I don´t believe the results of last night just looked like my plan worked, but actually didn´t. I don´t believe that Bloodyc0bbler actually thinks it is the best explanation that I am scum with a very questionable plan. I don´t believe that everyone on the zodiac list has had very few comments for this and in unison think that youngminii is scum, when RoL should be under heavy suspicion again. I don´t believe that RoL is a vigilante. Fact is there has been no scum on the lynch block yet. Aside from RoL, all major suspects flipped innocent. RoL is the only person to get away alive from being nearly lynched. I don´t think this is a coincidence either. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
We are 16 players right now. Scum have 3 kp, if they lose one member before the night, they are down to 2 kp. Let´s assume first that RoL is innocent and Vigilante and just loves Jack Bauer: 11 Townies against 5 scum 1.1 We lynch right. RoL shoots right. Scum can only kill 2 people. Tomorrow we are at 9 town against 3 scum. 1.2 We lynch right. RoL shoots wrong. Scum can only kill 2 people. Tomorrow it´s 8 vs 4. 1.3 We lynch wrong. RoL shoots right. Scum can kill 3 people. Tomorrow it´s 7 vs 4. 1.4 We lynch wrong and we shoot wrong. We are fucked. 6 town vs 5 scum. Now you say you think RoL might be scum. Let´s assume that next. 11 townies against 5 scum 2.1 We lynch right. No shooting. Scum can only kill 2 people. Tomorrow it´s 9 vs 4. 2.2 We lynch wrong, still no shooting. Scum can kill 3 people. Tomorrow it´s 7 vs 5. Now as you can see it is extremely important we lynch right today because it will affect scum kp. You tell me that Fudgemonkey was buddying with Youngminii? How about BC giving his all to stop RoL from being lynched. Or you with RoL for that matter? But I digress, because you, ~Opz~, were the first to agree with RoL that a dead thread is a towntell. On June 19 2011 12:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Remember that thing I said about a dead thread being an obvious tell...? On June 19 2011 12:33 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'm in complete agreement with RoL, tbh. I also vividly remember that you voted for me, because I doubted RoL. That was your entire line of reasoning. On June 19 2011 10:30 ~OpZ~ wrote: ....How would you know if he didn't PM anything serious to one of his PM buddies if you don't mind me asking? You get my vote for that... No ones questioned my disappearance? And then you proceeded to stealth bandwagon onto syllogism. No reason was given in the thread. Also you 2 inscenated a play that not so stealthily tells everyone you are vigilante, ~Opz~. On June 20 2011 08:37 ~OpZ~ wrote: I've decided to give RoL a chance....I'm still going to be willing to vote for him. On June 20 2011 08:38 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: OpZ you should just wait until night time then vigi me again. On June 20 2011 08:55 ~OpZ~ wrote: Can only hit once, sry. So by this we know that you both obviously talked about roles in your PMs. Also this little quip suggests that RoL is Veteran, not Vigilante. This is the exact opposite of what he is now claiming. Care to talk your way out of this? | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 23 2011 06:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Wait, you realize you just were trying to use a "host would balance the game" argument, and then posred that me, wiggles, BC, and opz must be scum..? You do realize that would be IMBALANCED and UNLIKELY of a team. Look at these voting wagons, the only people standing up to my railroad and siding with me are veterans, you know why? They can see I am town. Those people voting against me and those refusing to commentate on this situation and just sheep fucking voted for me? Yeah, they are scum. You are being so damn headstrong for no reason man. No, if you read what I wrote, my point is that balance is an absolute weak argument. OpZ used it. On June 23 2011 06:05 ~OpZ~ wrote: Further evidence backing up RoL's case against youngminii and fudgemonkey. Personally I would rather we just move all the votes to fudgemonkey, allow RoL to Vig YM at night (given he is actually a vig), and go from there. That seriously seems like the best course of action, because if YM isn't red, then it's down to BC and RoL. AND WHERE THE FUCK IS KANTBEUSEFULCHI?! He quotes someone mentioning balance and states it is evidence for Youngminii and Fudgemonkey to be scum. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 23 2011 06:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: It's not the same, trust me. It WILL clear up a discrepancy if he flips what I think he will flip. I didn't walk into this half heartedly. I know what I am doing and if you trust both of my analysis, and you trust my innocence then you need to follow through with the plan I have layed out. Being innocent doesn´t mean you are right. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 23 2011 08:07 DeMorcerf wrote: + Show Spoiler + Honestly, my brain doesn't even work right now. I apologize for that but this week I've been exhausted by 12-hours days as a camp counselor. I think that both Varpulis and Wiggles are town, so I'm going to vote with them against ym who led us wrong on prior lynch candidates. (Also ym is asking for my death, but I know I'm town.) That's bad logic, but it's the best my mind can do right now. What is this is I don´t even.... I know my points appear weaker when Bloodyc0bbler, RebirthofLegend and Opz all discuss against me. In your head, make an entire scum team able to do what they did, which was not having a single person on the chopping block for 2 days and sniping 2 detectives and 1 medic. Opz brings setup balance as an argument to lynch youngminii, no joke. People say Youngminii is guilty because he led the lynch on ILJ day 1? Guess who led the lynch on syllogism on day 2? It was RebirthofLegend. He gunned for a lurker back then and is now gunning for a lurker, Fudgemonkey again. He stated he would prefer lynching Fudgemonkey over Youngminii even. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I do in fact believe I am not retarded. And making huge ass, 3 page long point by point analysises is not a good point. If your argument was strong, you could confine it into one paragraph, with the rest of your analysis just backing that one up. Luckily at least a couple of players can be swayed onto your train of thought by just making them read paragraph after paragraph after paragraph of you spewing slightly comprehendable rambling at them. Your analysis is long, I give you that. But there are only 2 possibilities that I am wrong: -Happenstance. It purely randomly just happened that Sandroba and I were targeted by mafia. -Information error. Now I am not allowed to ask Sandroba for his Skype history. But I believe what he told me, as for example the part about him masoning BC, which BC verified. It´s actually not important how strong the bluetell you received was. What is important is, who could have fucked this over? I didn´t even tell my only other contact. Sandroba didn´t tell it to someone else either. If he did tell it to someone else, I´m going to be mad. I told you already in Skype, but I think it was good metaphor: If you threw a rock over a wall and then climbed over the wall and you find a rock a few meters behind the wall, what would you conclude? I conclude that it is the rock I threw. Your conclusion is that the rock vanished in mid air and the rock behind the wall was already there. We dropped a bluetell to you in PM and the only 2 people knowing about it were attacked by mafia at night. I say this is because you *are* the mafia. YOU say you didn´t receive a bluetell and Sandroba and I were attacked randomly. I didn´t go collect all the little pebbles that fell off the rock. The big evidence I need is me being still alive. Any theory that goes along the lines of "Scum doublestacked Sandroba in order to kill RoL" is backwards logic. You don´t punch yourself in the face if you want to hurt someone else. Fuck I wrote too long.... | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
BC SCUM. ROL SCUM. If you are a Vig or a hatter, take a coin, flip it: If it lands tails kill Rebirthoflegend, If it lands heads kill Bloodyc0bbler. Medics you roll a die. If it lands 5 or 6, you choose for yourself. If it lands 1,2 3,4 you protect me. I am the blueest bro in town and I just lost my last mason, Youngminii. I knew he was green because scum tunneled him. They wouldn´t bus now, because it would drop their kp to 2. Assuming Youngminii was scum too along with RoL is also backwards ass logic. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
It is a losing move to actually go ahead and get a scum killed when it drops your kp. Remember, FoS are free, but lynching comes at a price. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I would wager that everyone on the RoL train is clean, aside from Kenpachi. He voteswitched back and forth, meaning Youngminii had priority over RoL at equal votes. Also Kenpachi did say Bloodyc0bbler could be godfather day 1, but he didn´t really support me day 3 with my gf thesis. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 23 2011 09:38 flamewheel wrote: Day 3 Vote Tally Votes for RebirthOfLeGenD (8): Mataza, Votes for youngminii (8) [first]: RebirthOfLeGenD, Mr. Wiggles, Varpulis, ~OpZ~, BloodyC0bbler, Shraft, LandenC, DeMorcerf 1 hour and 6 minutes remain in the day. Oh look, the Zodiac list is still entirely on youngminii, no second guessing even for a single minute. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 23 2011 11:34 Kenpachi wrote: after all this shit, the first correct accusation might have been mine You don´t score for it because you didn´t fucking help me. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Bloodyc0bbler is the Godfather I don´t know, maybe it wasn´t highlighted enough. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I am calling the shots now. If you are a Vig or a hatter, take a coin, flip it: If it lands tails kill Rebirthoflegend, If it lands heads kill Bloodyc0bbler. Medics you roll a die. If it lands 5 or 6, you choose for yourself. If it lands 1,2 3,4 you protect me. In case you don´t know who to choose for yourself, you can still choose me. I wouldn´t be surprised to receive mutiple hits tonight. I am still accepting Mason requests by anyone. You may formally request to be masoned to me in the thread but I can´t guarantee everyone a spot. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Conclusion: I believe my mason with Mataza is partially to blame for the blue-sniping being so damned accurate this game. Interesting conclusion. You have given me "I think Hiro is scum" then you give "Oh F*** I think he´s a blue. a bad blue, but a blue" Then someone else picks up on Hiro and you give me "Well played scum, I will never talk to you again" You were angry you weren´t involved in the Sandroba plot? Guess what, even though I don´t think you are scum, you could have very well given it to someone(so. was Node )if you had a paranoia attack again. (This is not your first, this is the second paranoia attack you had this game.) When I talked to RoL, *YOU* said me I shouldn´t listen to him and that I am being swayed to think he is innocent. That I should be more headstrong and refuse to talk to him. And *NOW* you are the one thinking RoL is innocent. Balance is a horrible argument. I will start believing in player balance when flamewheel comes out here and starts listing player strength rankings. But first of all, how the HELL did you help me snipe blues? You have given me exactly Hiro, no one else. The dead blues, chaos13, Mig and Scamp, we never even talked about them. How did you being masoned to me lead to these people dying? I don´t see it! This game may not revolve solely around me, but it doesn´t revolve around you either. Just for your information I was also hard pressed to lynch a scum yesterday, for the same reason RoL was. Nay, even more so because I wanted to drop mafia kp. If BC actually thought RoL is innocent and I am scum and that our plan was to assume that there are not only several Doctors in game, but that they were on all on the one vet we shoot(TL Doctors are notoriously bad -.-), I am losing my faith in BC as a logical thinking player. He called my scenario "total wtf shit". A 3-step scenario with no leaps in logic. Tell someone you are blue, have them tell someone else, survive the hit. If that is "total wtf shit", then I am obviously too dumb to see the easy explanation. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Seriously. There is the whole zodiac list of players who are accredited of being able to save the whole town. It´s not only RoL. BC is a better primary target. And don´t argue for BC. I didn´t force him to say that I am scum, that we are in a much better position than ever before in this game(while we are actually one day before lylo) and that what my plan is useless if I don´t have the piece of text where Sandroba tells RoL of my blueness. With the amount of interest RoL showed this game there would be no sense in lynching him with *any plan*. He promised things he didn´t do(PM pressure), he defended himself by waiting 20 hours and his alternative was a mislynch that had a very good sounding case. Sorry I am not as suave a writer. He didn´t do anything and he lied about his intentions with his mason plot and his number of masons, so why even bother killing him from scum perspective? | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 24 2011 02:53 VisceraEyes wrote: I can assure you it all fits...even if it's WIFOM, that doesn't make it wrong. It only makes it WIFOM. But really, there's NOTHING that condemns RoL that occured yesterday. Not one thing. ESPECIALLY his lynch of YM. How is it his fault if a bunch of townies foolishly voted for YM based on weak analysis and basically just the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY OF ONE OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED AND RECOGNIZED VETERANS? You YOURSELF said it was weak analysis. Being wrong does not equal being scum. BEING WRONG DOES NOT EQUAL BEING SCUM. You want Meta? Mataza tried to get Town to commit to some kind of super-power-play in SNMMII, and he was lynched for it. By the way Mataza, you never DID clear up what exactly that was, and I've always wanted to know...just never remembered to ask. You want proof? I have none. I have only my story and my theory. I'm open to suggestions on how to clear it up, but I firmly believe that RoL is being set up. If I live through the night, I will NOT support his lynch tomorrow unless town is ABSOLUTELY set on it...by a VAST majority. Right up to the point where it becomes ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN town wants him to live, I'm pushing Mataza as hard as I can. The weak analysis was the best RoL could do. ONE OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED AND RECOGNIZED VETERANS. Stop worshipping veterans. They are not gods. They don´t win the game for us. I doubt they are even trying. You have no proof? Wonderful. You are just being paranoid. There is the law of Occam´s razor. If several explanations are possible, it is usually the one that is the least complicated. The game has nearly gone to shitz now. You only cling to the hope that RoL is vigilante. Vigilante´s are unblockable by roleblockers, so RoL is still able to shoot Fudgemonkey if he really thinks he is scum. You say being wrong doesn´t mean RoL is scum. But I am scum whether or not I am right? You told me to not be convinced by RoL that he is innocent. What is the deal with you? [02:45] <Mataza> it looks like it worked as it should [02:45] <Mataza> so I am not going to assume it failed [02:46] <VisceraEyes> True...and I see that you're going through with it in his name...but I can also see that RoL has swayed you. [02:46] <VisceraEyes> You no longer think he's scum..somehow [02:46] <VisceraEyes> MY point is that you have to factor in the VAST experience RoL has in convincing people he's not scum...and that some other sap is. Remember this? You reassured me that RoL can only be scum and now I am guilty for that? | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Everyone has 2 masons. I am your mason Sandroba and YM are my masons. I am the mason of a couple of other people. You are officially out of my communication until you stop flailing. because if you flail, you might spill every little thing to the thread. | ||
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