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On June 21 2011 16:36 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 13:45 Mataza wrote:Any other questions towards my actions? If not good, if yes mason me. I talked a lot and have been very cautious as to what I say when. I am not going to find a log on every single thing that was said or lead to what happened tonight. You may have reasons to mistrust my judgement, but not to mistrust me. As it stands, the following happened: As it happened I masoned Sandroba because of his plan. Much later, I asked him what his read on me was. He answered, but found the question weird. I proceed to tell him I´m blue. He fosses me and tells RoL my claim. I explain a bit further, starting to make sense, and he goes "Oh shit, I just did something stupid. I told RoL you´re blue" RoL answered him he actually thought I was blue. As I told Sandro I am indeed a Veteran everything was happy after that, since if RoL was scum i would be sure to get hit that night. Alas it happened so. Facts: - We miss 1 KP from tonight, because I got hit
- Sandroba died too, who was the link between me and RoL
- Scum had a curiously good bluerate this game
- RoL wanted mass masons on him, although he says he only ever received 3
Correct me if I´m wrong, but I think scamp was masoned to RoL? Might misremember, but it´s not that important anway. If I only had gotten hit, I wouldn´t be this sure. But as Sandroba died too, and Sandroba and me make up the only 2 mafia hits this night, AFTER Sandroba slipped my blueness to RoL, I am convinced: Rebirth of Legend is scum - His "mason me and mass claim" plan, upon which he didn´t pressure people for scumtells as he said he would, is probably the reason for the amount of bluesniping that happened in this game.
- If we cut him down today, we reduce the mafia kp to 2 for tonight.
Discussion should obviously revolve around other suspects, but votes should land on RoL ##Vote: RebirthOfLegend I currently have 5 masons, well 4 now that sandroba is dead. I never thought you were blue and I don't even recall the conversation he referenced. I seriously just looked through our skype log and found nothing except him showing part of a PM you received and me saying how it was the same line I saw syllogism say. Your case is shit. My entire mason the shit out of me and lie about it plan was just to make sure I drew a medic night 0, or scared the mafia off from hitting me. I did actually pressure people who were masoned to me. I harassed sandroba and got a town read off of him, I set a trap for aidnai (if he were scum) and he passed it. Youngminii somehow is constantly failing to properly add me on skype so I can speak to him, and the other 2 people I am masoned with one can't get onto skype and the other I refuse to try to analyze due to the sheer difficulty of it.
Of course you don´t remember and can´t find any of it. Just as much as you don´t know who the other mafia players are.
I literally only told Sandroba of this plan, so the probability of it leaking into scum ears was around 0%
Unless Sandroba lied to me, which I think is unlikely.
Or *you* told someone else, but your defense is you didn´t even know I am blue.
The only other person aware of my masonings got exactly this at the start of day
I´m doing my best to get myself known as blue role to red circles. Maybe a little too much.
I PM´ed Sandroba a very short message. I think if he´s scum I will get a bullet finally tonight^^
Do you have any clear town reads? I´m thinking about breadcrumbing an innocent check.
I have no reason to distrust anything what Sandroba said.
My other contact was´nt even aware I talked with Sandroba at all beyond one first message.
Since I didn´t tell anybody else, the only other explanation for me and Sandroba getting hit is coincidence.
Yesterday we had 18 players, minus 6 scum so 12 townies.
Statistically, the chance of one player getting hit was 8.33%
Leaves 11 other people, so the chance of getting hit was abot 9.09%
2 specific people getting shot is the bomination of those 2 chances, or 0.75%, less than 1 %
That´s comparable to flipping a coin and getting Heads 9 times in a row.
Amazing coincidence, right?
Or alternatively everything happened as I described and scum to decided to off a blue(me) and the guy who told them he was blue(Sandroba).
There is of course the option that I was a good hit based on the thread, but in my experience my thread presence makes me a decent lynch target more than anything else.
The scum shooting Sandroba and me based on thread presence is the most random thing ever, if you discard my explanation.
So either randomness, randomness or pure calculating intent which already lead to 3 blue snipes. I don´t think scum got 3 blue snipes by guessing them all. They at least had solid claims via PM at 2 of them.
Stop resisting RoL, you are going down tonight and hopefully even flip godfather.
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So your defence is that you think Scum decided to stop blue sniping, at which they were very successful so far, and instead do the following:
- 1: Set up connections with one of the insignificant townies that not on the zodiac
- 2: Pick a townie that isn´t blue for better results.
- 3: Hope to find out that this townie set up a connection to someone worth killing
- 4: Kill that townie with all your shots and 1 guy claims veteran instead of killing your actual target with all your shots.
- 5: Proceed to trade 1 scum for 1 town without a role and 1 townie of unknown role
This isn´t ballsy, this is suboptimal. If scum would play this inefficient they wouldn´t win, because
THEY ARE NOT KILLING ENOUGH PEOPLE.
Do you know what *is* ballsy?
You are:
You get fossed early on, then don´t do anything.
You wait a long period of time until someone says
"He can´t be scum, scum will always pick alternate targets when they are on the block! Therefore he must be the greenest bro in town!"
Pick an absolute horrifyingly bad lynch from the inactives. Take one no one ever had on their radar(Syllogism) before to look more genuine than sheeping an existing inactive lynch(Hiro Protagonist).
Call the people on the less horrible lynch scummy by virtue of vote analysis(Vote analysis is horrible way to scumhunt).
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Also the new and exciting way to play scum ballsy nowadays?
Bus like there is not tomorrow.
I´ve seen it done in PTP, where Dropbear with one of his last posts only talked about how scummy his teammates were, while his teammate GMarshal bussed him.
In my first game Palmar bussed Hiro without remorse.
Everything RoL says shall be perceived as circular reverse wifom.
It´s literally a coinflip if he busses his teammates, to make them look innocent after his flip or if he blames townspeople, so we confuse it with him bussing someone.
It will be even less fruitful than vote pattern analysis.(Voting is a commitment, Fossing someone is free)
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Hello Wifom!
RoL wrote just above this post:
To be honest, if I wanted to meta that I could. In previous games I generally refuse to be the godfather and decide who on my team will be it. Usually I will pick who I deem the second best player on my team as GF, since I can cover my tracks and argue well enough to where I don't need godfather protection and it would fuck with the town to think "If RoL wasn't the GF then who was?"
Look it´s circular, uncalled for since he is supposed to flip green and it tells us he is not godfather.
He wants us to be extra doubtful until the godfather is found.
Flip a coin to determine what this tells us.
Hint: It´s only here to make us mistrust each other
For good measure, let´s tie up some loose ends
I unearthed my own post(yes, I like my own posts  )
The day after Mig, the cop, died:
A though crossed my mind:
When RoL claimed his cop check came in, he talked about a cop that is in his mason circle.
I think this could be a scenario:
Mig had guilty check on Kenpachi. After some back and forth with RoL he decides to trust him anyway and make RoL claim it in the thread(RoL is supposedly a hive mind thing, being the target of a lot of masonings)
But RoL is scum and had to claim exactly as Mig said to not alarm him.
Then scum proceed to kill Mig.
tl;dr
Kenpachi was checked by Mig, Mig told RoL.
RoL is forced to bus Ken and does bus him in the weakest way he can, so people don´t take it seriously.
Then Mig is killed.
Sound familiar? Something is told via PM then everyone involved dies mysteriously.
That´s right, they did it again last night, with me and Sandroba.+ Show Spoiler +<Mr. Mysterio> Kenpachi WOULD have made a great n0 check.
<Mataza> exactly<
<Mr. Mysterio> He's INFAMOUS for being insane in his posting.
<Mr. Mysterio> My money is on Miller if that's true...he's been posting like insane-town...not insane-scum.
<Mataza> if he was miller, would RoL pass this chance?
<Mataza> to gain ezpz towncred
<Mataza> it´s like towncred on a silver platter
<Mr. Mysterio> Pass chance to what? Call out for DT check on Kenpachi?
<Mataza> he could claim he is dt himself or he knows one who checked kenpachi
<Mr. Mysterio> He already did
<Mr. Mysterio> lol
<Mataza> he even could say it was mig and that mig got shot because he dropped bluetells
<Mataza> or because of "the mysterious other mason he had"
<Mataza> and then he would be townhero
Simply, I don´t buy that RoL just claimed a copcheck out of boredom(boredom being his excuse for every single thing he did). Also mig had night 0 to get one check, yet he didn´t breadcrumb anything(Sandroba was miller, so that message doesn´t count)
It´s not waterproof but I do think Kenpachi being scum is possible.
Discuss
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How to deal with RoLs posts:
1. Ignore him until he flips green
2. If he flips green, begin rereading.
+ Show Spoiler +If you are green, I appreciate your efforts. But I don´t think you are.
You revoked all your defences that let you be town.
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@Mr. Wiggles.
1.
To my knowledge no pressure at all.
I believe it´s an equally valid method to feign no interest as to keep everyone on a "need to know" basis. Pressuring for a role through another person is an arduous task and might be interpreted as fishing. By not fishing no one would have a reason to tell that to "Mason #2"
They were just riding high on 3 bluesnipes in 2 days.
How do you know how strong Sandrobas townread on RoL was?
2.
Look for my blueslips. I dare you to find condemning ones. I am very different from the other blue snipes in behaviour.
There´s still a chance for coincidence but it´s miniscule.
See, if you would tell Xx that you find Yy suspicious, because Yy is claiming blue in a weird way to you and the following night Yy drops dead, woudln´t you doubt Xx too?
Wouldn´t you find it at least curious and tell all your other masons?
What you are proposing is about as likely as your own explanation in PTP, that you got framed and your target got busdriven to the on-death alignmentrevealer, all in one night.
I´m not saying it´s impossible, but you should go buy a lottery ticket if it happens.
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@Wiggles
I was masoned to aidai before he got modkilled, and on day 2 we talked a little about who we thought scum might be. One of the people we talked about, was Hiro. What I told aidnai, was that Hiro was either red, or a bad blue. After the events of the day, I was more convinced it was bad blue, than scum. If aidnai hadn't been modkilled, and hiro had shown up shot today, would I be more suspicious of aidnai? Not really.
The critical difference here lies in the details.
I, too, had a mason partner tell me he thinks Hiro is bad blue, so I know this situation exactly.
Hiro was apparent or semi apparent in the thread.
The difference is, I wasn´t apparent by slipping left and right and I was moderately active. You can believe my "trap" was set and nobody was told but Sandroba and me, in order to not let scum know(obviously) and everything fell into place like my trap worked.
Or you can believe Sandroba and I set up a trap for RoL, and RoL claims to not have told anyone and all the pieces fall, just like they would if my trap worked, but it actually didn´t and RoL is actually green.
You could also believe food grows in your refrigerator and that your parents never had sex.
But you don´t believe this bullshit because it is bullshit.
So back to assuming scum aim for blue(which should be a no brainer):
If you would have to justify shooting me, how would you argue?
This is mafia, so you can´t get by only thinking like the side you are on, or you would lose horribly to wifom. Try arguing for it.
You can´t tell me scum just hit 3 blue roles by accident. They *aim* for blues.
If you don´t assume that scum aim for blues, you might as well argue that scum would doublestack Sandroba so I could claim veteran and get RoL lynched.
Why don´t you assume that? Because it is suboptimal use of scum abilities. They could simply doublestack RoL and then bandwagon Sandroba. But they didn´t.
That is why I asked you to argue for me being a valid blue snipe. Or Sandroba, for that matter.
Back to assuming my plan didn´t work, yet everything just happened as if it had worked.
Give me a fu**ing reason my plan didn´t work.
- Sandroba is dead - check
- I got hit - check
- RoL says he told nobody about this -> The only possible leak of the plan is out of question.
To make it appear as if the plan worked, scum would have needed info Sandroba and I didn´t give to anyone.
If this was manipulated, RebirthofLegend would be town *and* he would have lied when the truth would save his ass.
How can anyone fucking believe this is a scum setup?
How can you argue my plan did not work?
Now, if it isn´t a setup
and my plan did not work,
WHY THE HELL DID IT HAPPEN THE WAY IT DID? COINCIDENCE?
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EBWOP:
I should have highlighted that
RoL, if he was green, would have lied when the truth would save his ass.
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Of course RoL isn´t going to say he knew I´m blue.
This is just like town in PTP again. There is someone who is 99% scum through reliable proof and you are taking his claims as arguments?
What if he now told you he is a detective and got 3 consecutive scumchecks, would you believe that too? NO!
How about we ask RoL "Hey RoL, are you mafiasided?" He says "No." Will you then say"Hey guys, RoL is green, I asked him."
Now, Scum have so far not been detected.
Let´s say the gullible blues who claimed via PM are all dead by now. So you don´t have the luxury of multiple confirmed blues to choose from.
Not getting detected or suspicions cast on you is a resource too. That´s why people bus their mates to remove suspicion against them or on the opposite, to get towncred.
You are well aware of that, but I am explaining in length for the people getting confused by this drama.
Now let´s say RoL, who was up on the block for at least 24 hours on day2, were told a bluerole by someone, let´s call him Sand.
Sand knows he told RoL something that exposes someone, lets call him Mat, as a bluerole.
Now everybody is aware that RoL was suspicious and his whole defense was based on "scumteam wouldn´t be so quiet if I really was scum" That´s was not a really good defence.
Now, if RoL did kill Mat, but not kill Sand, Sand would think "Hey, Mat really was a bluerole" and then he would say "Oh shit, I am supposed to not tell blue roles to strangers. Better tell everyone my mistake"
And then the whole town would know Mat claimed being a blue role to Sand and Sand told it to RoL. Then RoL would look mighty scummy again, as his last defence wasn´t really good.
For the record, I didn´t expect Sandroba to be hit too, exactly because I assumed they tried to kill another blue instead.
But it happened. By connecting the dots scum either valued having no witnesses over more than sniping a 2nd blue or they simply did not have a 2nd blue to snipe.
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On June 22 2011 11:35 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:I will reveal the portion where I am breadcrumbed Mataza's role. I finally figured it out, with the help of Mataza. Show nested quote +
[6/18/2011 6:09:41 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm gonna pasate his msg
[6/18/2011 6:09:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: It´s not really an analysis in my opinion, I just posted to get discussion going again.
I don´t feel to well with either lynch, it will probably be a witch hunt again, like always
I seriously doubt Demorcerf being scum though.
ILJ will hold my vote until a better case comes up.
It´s a better case than Sina or Aidnai.
As for lurkers, I´m no fan of lurker hunting. Some scum might be lurking, but it is beyond me how to find them normally.
Too bad no one followed your plan, was looking forward to it.
The bold portion was supposed to infer that the only reason Mataza would be interested in Sandroba's (shitty) plan is because Mataza himself was a DT. It was such a vague reference that I never even realized it until Mataza pointed it out a couple of hours ago.
Yes, but more no.
Sandroba told me he gave me away to you. I wasn´t told the details.
Now you obviously only gave me material that was not dangerous to you.
[6/18/2011 6:09:02 PM] joe oliva: really suspicious imo
[6/18/2011 6:09:41 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm gonna pasate his msg
[6/18/2011 6:09:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: (my message)
Now look at the timestamp.
The exact timezone isn´t even relevant. Look at the date.
Luckily I did copy little bit of text from IRC into skype because we had IRC issues.
[19.06.2011 20:28:44] sandro.maculan: Hi mataza_! I’d like to add you on Skype. Sandro Maculan
[19.06.2011 20:28:44] Mataza: Mataza has shared contact details with Sandro Maculan.
[19.06.2011 20:29:09] Mataza: [20:24] <Mataza> I wouldn´t think so^^
[20:25] <Mataza> Only thing making me nervous is you being scum
[20:25] <Mataza> You could make hits on me so i push RoL
[20:26] <Mataza> But I´m gonna put that away for now.
[20:26] <Mataza> We´ll see if a case against me comes out of thin air soon
[20:26] <Mataza> Since I am not worth doublestacking at this point
[19.06.2011 20:29:12] Mataza: from irc
[19.06.2011 20:30:04] Mataza: so basically I´m untouchable to scum
[19.06.2011 20:37:24] Mataza: i can´t write in irc anymore lol
[19.06.2011 20:37:33] Mataza: first this ever happened to me
[19.06.2011 20:38:16] Sandro Maculan: shit
[19.06.2011 20:38:24] Sandro Maculan: that's the same thing that keeps happening to me
You can see from my conversation with Sandro, we were literally just about finished discussing "our plan", when we were forced to change from IRC to skype.
Unprovable but funny fact:
Sandroba outright told you I´m blue, he didn´t breadcrumb it.+ Show Spoiler +[19.06.2011 20:57:20] Sandro Maculan: If you dont get shot tonight how do you feel about doing the same with bc
[19.06.2011 20:57:43] Sandro Maculan: assuming I'm alive till then
[19.06.2011 20:57:52] Mataza: sending him a heart?
[19.06.2011 20:57:57] Sandro Maculan: lol
[19.06.2011 20:57:59] Mataza: or telling him im a blue role
[19.06.2011 20:58:08] Sandro Maculan: not telling
[19.06.2011 20:58:12] Sandro Maculan: just crumbing
Now, the alleged bluetell you gave us is on 18th,
while I only began communicating with Sandroba on the 19th.
Screw Timezone, there is a day missing. What you have pointed out is vague at best, that is right.
But what actually matter´s didnt happen back then, it happened around a day later.
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Oh come on, don´t take us for morons just because we are relatively new to this forum.
RoL taking a little breadcrumb I planted and selling it as something Sandroba would panic over is retarded.
You could as well go back to day one where i planted my first meager breadcrumb which nobody cared for.
It can work and I will definitely go through with this.
This is horseshit and it´s from the 15th.
What RoL just served you is the same horseshit from 18th.
Seriously, do I really need to tell someone I cannot trust yet(BloodyC0bbler) what I do, before I do it to make it credible?
Of course RoL is going to deny receiving a message that would condemn him. He is SCUM on the chopping block.
Him saying he received that message is the equivalent of him confessing his guilt.
At the start people said town wins by creating several small circles instead of one big circle. But apparently every communication has to go through BC or some other veteran still.
Do you want to know why I do not trust any of the veterans? Because they did fuck all this game and fuck all my last game.
We have a Zodiac list with veterans. The first vet dies, the second vet dies, nobody reacts. Node gets killed and flips scum. BC called him out apparently with pure gut feeling.
That reeks of the godfather bussing the weakest link.
There was no analysis prior to the night and no questions asked afterwards.
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BC I didn´t say I didn´t mason him, I said I didn´t use the connection.
These are my sent messages.
Read from top to bottom:
+ Show Spoiler +
6. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/20 03:28
5. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/20 02:52
Mysterious contact #2Re: SNMM4 6/19 12:11
Mysterious contact #2SNMM4 6/19 12:04
4. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/19 10:53
Mysterious contact #1Re: Vertrauen 6/19 10:40
3. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/18 14:16
Mysterious contact #1Re: Night 1 6/18 14:13
Mysterious contact #1Re: Night 1 6/18 10:16
Mysterious contact #1Re: Well Played. 6/17 12:25
2. sandroba Re: XLII: Hi 6/17 05:21
Mysterious contact #1Re: ilovejonn case 6/17 00:37
Mysterious contact #1ilovejonn case 6/17 00:11
Mysterious contact #1Re: Vertrauen 6/16 23:59
1. sandroba XLII: Hi 6/16 09:15
Mysterious contact #1Re: n0 6/16 09:13
flamewheel XLII Masoning Sandroba 6/16 04:56
What they contain:
1. Me: Did anyone follow your plan?
2. Sandroba: Hey. I think you might be onto something in your demorcef analysis. Me: It´s not really an analysis in my opinion, I just posted to get discussion going again.
3. Sandroba: Care to post your opinions on my lists in the tread? Me: Sorry I´ve had a long night and am now going to sleep. I´ll catch up later.
4. Me: I apologize for not commenting on last night, but I was kinda drunk(friday after all).
If you have anything you want a second opinion, just ask.
What´s your opinion on Demorcerf? I want to know your own reasons to suspect him.
5. Sandroba: Please mason Node to safe him from Modkill Me: It´s not like he is active on other parts of TL. If he isn´t on TL, my PM will never reach him.
6. Sandroba: Do you have skype? My irc is acting up. Me: Yes I do.
You can see it´s about 1 message per day until the 19th. Around that time we began talking in IRC.
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You know what:
Assume I am dumb until I explain every detail
Assume I lied until I tell you exactly how I spend my PMs
Assume that RoL may be innocent even though my story perfectly explains what happened
+ Show Spoiler +
I am not here for others to assume I´m an idiot until proven otherwise.
I am accepting masons for people for people who don´t want to organize through BC.
No one has proven that BC is not the godfather.
He did not do much day 1 and 2 because analysis only gets reliable day3 or after.
All I see from here is he doubts I am able to execute one of the most basic plans you can do in Mafia.
Do you know what I deem a bad plan?
Telling your suspect an action via PM. Then if the action goes through assume your suspect is not scum because your action wasn´t roleblocked.
1. They know you are watching them. If the action gets roleblocked, guess what, you know exactly who did it.
2. If the action gets roleblocked, you will still get your suspect killed afterwards.
This is about as intelligible a plan like RoL asking to be masoned by everyone to pressure people into scumslips in PM.
You tell scum exactly what you intend to do, then hope they fall for it.
If I executed my plan this way, I would have masoned RoL, told him I´m veteran and if I didn´t get hit, concluded he is green.
My plan worked because RoL didn´t know that I knew that Sandroba told him about my claim.
Probably RoLs last information was that Sandroba is suspicious of me.
Like I stated in the middle of the message, I am accepting masons now.
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It is not there because I don´t have my IRC conversations logged.
The sad part is I have to record every single thing I say. I wasn´t aware of that. IRC kept crashing.
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ZodiacScumlistRebirthoflegend - is to be lynched today/attacks YM
BloodyC0bbler - Godfather/keeps finding reasons to play down my plan
Node - was bussed by Bloodyc0bbler
Mr.Wiggles - tries to salvage RoL by sheeping the YM attack
Kitaman - flipped green
Opz - distances himself from RoL already, began analysing votes of day 1 & day 2 for no reason
Youngminii - "lynching rol or opz is a crapshoot, let´s lynch landenc"
Scamp - flipped blue
Seriously, am I hallucinating?
All these players are supposed to promote discussion and pro town atmosphere from day 1. What actually happened is that the thread was incredibly inactive and RoL actually got away day 2 by waiting. You are not supposed to wait until the suspicion on you is gone.
They all kept moderately active if you look at post numbers.
But you can also find gems like:
Mine has posted+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2011 11:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 11:50 youngminii wrote:On June 21 2011 11:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 21 2011 11:42 youngminii wrote:On June 21 2011 11:41 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 21 2011 11:40 Mataza wrote:On June 21 2011 11:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 21 2011 11:31 Mataza wrote:
And I know Sandroba masoned BC with his second mason. That is confidential information. That he was. I was never informed of this plan though. I can explain: In case i don´t get targeted tonight our plan was to confirm you by Sandro dropping sly hints towards my blueness and to see if I get targeted the night after. Makes sense. If you told us both same night it wouldnt be tell you anything about either of us. This PM land stuff is tempting me to mason one of you. How secure if your PM circle? I currently have 3 mason'd people alive, 1 as of like 2 hours ago, 1 who mason'd me then never messaged, and one I mason'd. Hiro and sand were both mason'd to me. Hiro mason'd me start of last night, and sand end of day 1. Is the person who mason'd you 2 hours ago someone who hasn't posted in the last 5 pages? I had a guy mason me a couple hours ago too. Mine has posted. On June 20 2011 13:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
So here is the dealio. No one, and I repeat no one shoots hiro. There are new developments that I cannot go into detail at this exact time to explain but no one takes a pot shot at him. I repeat
until further notice, no hatter/vig shoots hiro
When things are fleshed out more I will give you more info, but for the next bit of time keep your guns holstered. On June 20 2011 13:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 13:28 Varpulis wrote:On June 20 2011 13:01 sandroba wrote:
RoL, why are you asking for DT checks on people on hiro's lynch while asking for a vig shot on hiro? That's like you are already assuming he will flip green. What the hell is your logic here? ...when did he ask for that? What am I missing in PM land? Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 11:00 flamewheel wrote:
Day 2 Vote Tally
Votes for RebirthOfLeGenD (2): FudgeMunkey, Node,
Votes for syllogism (10): RebirthOfLeGenD, GGQ, Jacinto, Mr. Wiggles, Kenpachi, Shraft, hiro protagonist, LandenC, ~OpZ~, BloodyC0bbler
Votes for hiro protagonist (7): sandroba, Varpulis, Mataza, youngminii, VisceraEyes, DeMorcerf, syllogism
Votes for Node (1): sinani206
syllogism is to be lynched. aidnai and grassgiraffe will be modkilled. -_-
I can´t believe the apathy of our beloved vets.
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Oh wow, I actually unearthed a real gem right there.
VisceraEyes, Demorcerf and me are all suspicious?
Hallelooja. I heard that all veterans are innocent and all people on the mafia-lead 2nd inactive lynch are innocent too?
Oh, just don´t go around and FoS people who are recognized by name, why not complete the scumlist with Fudgemonkey, Jacinto and Shraft?
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This is a nice argument right there.
Could RoL know if Syllo or Hiro were blue? No, he didn´t. Would he be more credible when he attacks a lurker no one else had on the radar, through the sheer power of being a forum veteran? Yes, I do think so. I can´t remember RoL defending Hiro.
Actually, I do remember you, BC, telling the town to shoot the survivor of the lynch anyway. Because you just don´t care. Oh wait, halfway through the night Sandroba said thisOn June 20 2011 13:01 sandroba wrote:
RoL, why are you asking for DT checks on people on hiro's lynch while asking for a vig shot on hiro? That's like you are already assuming he will flip green. What the hell is your logic here?
To which you answered this:On June 20 2011 13:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 13:28 Varpulis wrote:On June 20 2011 13:01 sandroba wrote:
RoL, why are you asking for DT checks on people on hiro's lynch while asking for a vig shot on hiro? That's like you are already assuming he will flip green. What the hell is your logic here? ...when did he ask for that? What am I missing in PM land? Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 11:00 flamewheel wrote:
Day 2 Vote Tally
Votes for RebirthOfLeGenD (2): FudgeMunkey, Node,
Votes for syllogism (10): RebirthOfLeGenD, GGQ, Jacinto, Mr. Wiggles, Kenpachi, Shraft, hiro protagonist, LandenC, ~OpZ~, BloodyC0bbler
Votes for hiro protagonist (7): sandroba, Varpulis, Mataza, youngminii, VisceraEyes, DeMorcerf, syllogism
Votes for Node (1): sinani206
syllogism is to be lynched. aidnai and grassgiraffe will be modkilled. -_-
You can´t say you didn´t call for shooting the survivor of the lynch.
On June 20 2011 10:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Swaying argument in pm land has led me to believe syllo is a better lynch atm. vote syllogismShow nested quote +On June 20 2011 10:18 GGQ wrote:On June 20 2011 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Worst 36 hours of my life that I can remember in ages. However I am back and my schedule is now back to standard life so I shouldn't be mia so long. To start with, I have just caught up on the thread and anyone voting for RoL unvote now. With so little discussion against his lynch it is clear mafia are content with him dying. Factor in his general acting like an ass to me would imply that if he is town he is using it to dodge night hits. Why the hell else would you be so apathetic? Now as to the two other vote targets proposed below. On June 20 2011 04:28 Varpulis wrote:I'm still really unsure about syllogism. I've read through his posts 3 times, and I can't confidently say mafia or town. I'm leaving my vote on Hiro, at least for the time being. I suggest that we consolidate our votes to three possible lynches, to avoid letting scum hide behind outlier votes. - syllogism
- Hiro Protagonist
- RebirthOfLeGenD
Is that list OK with people? Everybody should pick one, and vote for them, providing reasons as to why they are picking that person over the other two. Protest voting a lurker or somebody in no danger of being lynched is not going to accomplish anything. Hiro has two days worth of suspect behaviour, and has been on the lynch twice. IF he survives this lynch he should be getting vigi'd. Simple. Syllogism has called people out for not contributing and then barely contributed himself. He then follows it up using the excuse. On June 19 2011 05:50 syllogism wrote:
It's just frustrating to even to even attempt scum hunting when play like that is tolerated from veterans. It is decidedly anti-town, even if it's more likely he wouldn't play like that as scum. Now i say this is suspect purely for one simple reason. He doesn't believe RoL would perform this way as scum, but then doesnt try to figure out why RoL is playing the way he is and still votes to kill him. He has since unvoted and has opted to analyze another player on very weak analysis. After this analysis he doesnt even back it up with a vote. Major FoS on him for now. As a new player who has a ton of expectations you don't follow through on what you expect of others, nor do you properly pressure the people you expect more from and rely on other people to do it for you. This being said your activity level throughout the day as well as attempting to do analysis (even if it was terrible but everyone starts at the bottom before learning) I am willing to give you another day to step it up. Hiro has not really done a whole lot, and the moment votes started swapping from RoL elsewhere (syllo and hiro) the thread picked up in activity from what I can see. As such it seems mafia more likely to be opposed to one of the two of these players being lynched. vote hirotheprotagonist Vigi's whichever of the two doesnt get lynched, the other should be shot. Did you just scumslip by assuming that either of these players would flip green? Anyways, I think at this point Node is the highest priority for a vig shot, we can't let people on YOUR zodiac list lurk that hardcore. Based on how both appeared on the lynch docket at roughly the same time and thread activity has spiked at the same time, I would gather 1 is red, whereas the possibility of a second is there it is not guarenteed. If the lynch flips green vig the survivor as that is who the red will be.
Oh how very indifferent to who gets lynched. You don´t even try to find out which is red.
Let´s just try and if it didn´t work, try again. I mean we have a lot of town players, it´s not like it´s important to minimize losses.
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On June 22 2011 15:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2011 15:09 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 15:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 22 2011 15:04 Mataza wrote:
It is not there because I don´t have my IRC conversations logged.
The sad part is I have to record every single thing I say. I wasn´t aware of that. IRC kept crashing. So, your claiming that RoL was told of something that you don't actually have proof of? This is sounding scummier by the moment. Are you really thinking Mataza is scum? He's obviously 99% a vet. Uncharacteristic play from you. Eh? uncharacteristic? Not really. Someone claims "hi guys I caught a red" his entire argument gets debunked. When the game is also at a point where a misslynch royally fucks the town it is not unsurprising to assume mafia is trying something. At this stage in the game with only 1 red down, 5-11, 1 misslynch and a night of hits puts mafia in a position that only town kp can actually prevent the mafia from winning. You're damn right im suspicious. He comes out with a "solid plan" that was designed to catch a red. Rather than have the only real piece of proof needed to seal the deal it is strangely missing. The situation is now Mataza is scum. Believed roba had solidly "leaked" his role, and double stacked roba or shot hiro in hopes of getting RoL lynched. Or Mataza is vet, mafia shot roba and mataza and this entire situation is a total wtf shit.
My piece of evidence that seals the deal is me being fucking alive after being shot. In other games this is regarded as being confirmed vet.
Now either you think the scumteam is a band of clowns that devises plans like this:
1: Use both kills on a low-key townie
2: Let one of the really new players claim Veteran
3: Send this new player to accuse RebirthofLegend, a known forum veteran
4: Have a case with around 90% evidence through logs. Leave out the part that "seals the deal" because that´s how we roll
5: Attack all the other veteran players, too. Who cares?
6: get immediately found out after RoL flips.
To which the sensible alternative is this:
1: Use both kills on RebirthofLegend to break medic protection
2: Sheep on inactive townie lynch #3
Tell me, Node was scum right, so tell me would Node approve this?
Would he actually say yes, we have someone claiming veteran Day 1, only for him to throw it all away day 3 by attacking RoL with an incomplete case?
You, fine sir, must be mad to think that.
On the other, if Sand slipped, by accident, a blueclaim to RoL and then Sand as well as the blueclaim get hit at night, but the blueclaim is veteran and tells the tale of it, that is total wtf shit?
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BC wrote on page 49:
In that same token, you are annoyed I wanted to see hiro and syllogen flip. But Hiro was up for two lynches. Not 1, 2. He had been attacked by a ton of people, and flipped town. Syllogen appeared scummy but flipped town. Seeing the information provided when so much analysis and time had gone into that situation had to be given. Not only did hiro clear that, a red died, and we are left in a much better position than we were day 2.
This is wrong on sooo many levels.
RoL is right now up for his second lynch, too. It is also the first case to involve a blue and it would also be the first lynch to off a red. Up to now only GREENS have been up to be lynched.
I may be missing something, but our information from day 1 and day 2 analysis are worth nothing. You can´t tell me you hit Node through that knowledge. I believe you are good, but I don´t believe you are a magician.
How is our position any better than day 2?
Why Node´s death doesn´t matter to scum:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4L4d9.jpg)
If I was scum and I could ensure that no scum will be lynched for the rest of the game, I would totally do it.
And that is why our situation is actually worse then day 2. Much worse.
We magically caught a scum oh wondrous world. No analysis has been done on him. Sinani commited a vote to him. How the fuck did you "catch" Node?
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Oh how very fucking voncinvenient.
We are at a point where town needs successfull vigihits to win the game. And guess who suddenly became a vig? Right, the dude on the chopping block.
Look back at what´s happening, now look back here.
The dude on the chopping block is now diamonds.
Yes, it´s true one final piece of evidence is not here, Sandroba only told me he unmistakably told RoL that I am blue. He didn´t give me his Skype history.
Also as we talked via IRC and I didn´t save every single line said I can´t prove that either.
What I can prove is that I am alive and that nobody else claimed to be hit.
And for that, there are only a couple of explanations:
1. My explanation:
Sandroba told RoL I´m blue and we were both targeted by mafia. I survived because I am veteran.
2. Bloodyc0bblers explanation:
I am scum. My team gave their ok to use 2 hits on Sandroba, because...(???),
then the plan is for me, the newest player to go ahead and blame it on one off the forum veterans. With an incomplete case.
+ Show Spoiler +Now this is an extremely convoluted plan. It includes several risks for mafia.
The much, much more logical approach would be to use the 2 hits not on Sandroba, but on the forum veteran we want to actually kill.
Since the scumhits didn´t land anywyhere but on Sandroba or possibly Hiro, I would have to convince a scumteam of ~5 players that using 2 hits on Sandroba was somehow better than using 2 hits on RoL, when our goal is to kill RoL.
Which is kind of a hard point to convince someone off because it is just so much worse than the alternative of just shooting him.
3. RoLs explanation:
Sandroba overestimated the blueslip, so the plan did not work.
Mataza is still veteran and should not be lynched in case RoL flips innocent.
Absolutely no explanation why Sandroba and Mataza were hit in the same night.
Now these are 3 different stories for the same event and it can only be 1 of them true.
In the end it´s your call who to believe.
My call however is that RoL is scum and that thinking Bloodyc0bbler, the godfather, could somehow repair the situation, and he commited to the hard to explain side of the argument.
Now because people want analysis and extremely long posts, I present you this:
BC wrote on page 49:
In that same token, you are annoyed I wanted to see hiro and syllogen flip. But Hiro was up for two lynches. Not 1, 2. He had been attacked by a ton of people, and flipped town. Syllogen appeared scummy but flipped town. Seeing the information provided when so much analysis and time had gone into that situation had to be given. Not only did hiro clear that, a red died, and we are left in a much better position than we were day 2.
Like I said before, this is wrong on sooo many levels.
First of all, RoL is now up for his second lynch too. That doesn´t mean he should be flipped for "information" like Syllogism and Hiro yesterday. Yesterday it was ok to flip someone simply for being on the lynch vote twice, today it is not ok anymore.
Now, luckily we have plenty of information from the previous lynches, right?
Ilovejonn was green
grassgiraffe was green
hiro protagonist was blue
Day 1 lynch tells us nothing, because scum were free to lynch anyone on the lynch
RebirthofLegend wasn´t flipped yet
syllogismwas green
hiro protagonist was blue
Day 2 gives us nothing to because the 2 highest lynches were both town.
RoL scored only 2 votes at the end of the day, even though he was the first suspect.
Scum never had to take a stand in the past lynches. There is no valid information to extract, unless you find scum by them explaining which townie they want to see more dead.
Now after the day 2 lynch both RoL and BC were in favor that the survivor of the lynch should be shot for good measure. Then Hiro claimed his role. Suddenly after this roleclaim, BC found a third guy that was never up for shooting until this point, Node. This came practically out of thin air.BC literally pulled this out after Hiro claimed his role to him.
If BC really was sure about Node, why didn´t he call for Hiro and Node to be shot?
Now, again, how is our position any better than day 2?
Thsi shows why Node´s death doesn´t matter to scum:
The top numbers are the case if Hiro didn´t suicide kill Node
The lower numbers are the case with Hiro suicide killing Node.
As you can see, the game still would end on Night 4.
Since the mafia KP only drops when their numbers go from 5 scum down to 4, it is reasonable safe to go from 6 scum down to 5.
However, by killing Node with Hiro BC could strengthen his position. It was the first scum catch the entire game, so that is a lot of towncred.
With enough towncred, you can make the town believe the things you believe and make them do what you propose.
BC is a known forum veteran, so he starts with a bit of towncred already. So with just a little more towncred he can lead the town to 2 more mislynches, which is all that is needed for scum to win.
Now BC is definitely a good player. After catching Node out of a sea of inactive players with barely anything, he must be smart right?
On June 22 2011 15:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2011 15:09 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 15:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 22 2011 15:04 Mataza wrote:
It is not there because I don´t have my IRC conversations logged.
The sad part is I have to record every single thing I say. I wasn´t aware of that. IRC kept crashing. So, your claiming that RoL was told of something that you don't actually have proof of? This is sounding scummier by the moment. Are you really thinking Mataza is scum? He's obviously 99% a vet. Uncharacteristic play from you. Eh? uncharacteristic? Not really. Someone claims "hi guys I caught a red" his entire argument gets debunked. When the game is also at a point where a misslynch royally fucks the town it is not unsurprising to assume mafia is trying something. At this stage in the game with only 1 red down, 5-11, 1 misslynch and a night of hits puts mafia in a position that only town kp can actually prevent the mafia from winning. You're damn right im suspicious. He comes out with a "solid plan" that was designed to catch a red. Rather than have the only real piece of proof needed to seal the deal it is strangely missing. The situation is now Mataza is scum. Believed roba had solidly "leaked" his role, and double stacked roba or shot hiro in hopes of getting RoL lynched. Or Mataza is vet, mafia shot roba and mataza and this entire situation is a total wtf shit.
Look back at the start, to the 3 explanations of the last night.
He goes ahead and calls my explanation "total wtf shit"
He also says I am scum, my plan was to use both mafia nightkills Sandroba or split between Sandroba and Hiro, and for RoL to tell everyone he is guilty for this plan to work.
And for good measure my plan hinges on Sandroba leaking my role so that RoL would say he is guilty.
My plan is the most simple explanation you can give for this. There is no way BC can actually think it is total wtf shit.
Bloodyc0bbler for Godfather
I am still accepting masons for people who do not want to organize through Godfather, the BloodyC0bbler.
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EPT
