TL Mafia XL - Page 3

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 04:08 GMT

#911

1st post

It is a good spot, aprudds. We should keep an eye on freeloader625.

Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet.

Or you can wait for another 30 hours, once cases developed more. Very scummish materials here.

2nd post

As I said earlier, "we should keep an eye on Freeloader". But that's it. There will certainly be much more conversation before the end of the first day.

A few thoughts:
There are 8 mafia but do we know how much killing power they have? If 6 normally get 3 kills/night would it be sensible to extrapolate that 8 get 4?

Where did the number 6 come from? Unless he had some experience playing as mafia before, I do not see where 6 came from. He also forgets about lynching someone with little info when he reiterates his “keep eye” part.

3rd post

On June 05 2011 15:24 omgCRAZY wrote:
That is true. I have only looked over one other Mafia game so I don't have a lot of experience if players vote and unvote a lot over the course of a day or not, after the few responses we got from Freelancer265 I did do an EBWOP saying how his subsequent responses added to his suspicion.

Either this should be linked in the first few posts or people should start saying what their acronyms mean when they first use them. They only make things faster if they're understood.

And yeah - freeloader's first post was only mildly suspicious (although it was mildly suspicious) but his subsequent ones were rather more so. Also, he's probably still online and they're currently the best we have to go on. So I'm gonna vote but change in the next 24 hours or so if someone more suspicious comes up.

I suspect that most of the mafia are gonna be trying to lay low, post only "check-in" posts and whatnot. So keep your eyes peeled for that sort of thing - although, early on, that kinda posting might just mean its midnight and people want to go to bed (so gtsrs and 35spike1 are off the hook for now).

Huh, the nature of the posts are starting to become even more scummy. Freeloader’s first post seems only a bit suspicious, but why then vote already? Kurumi was rampaging, we still had people who didn’t vote yet, and he picks freeloader to vote for. He states that mafia are going to make “check-in” posts to seem active, and makes gtrsrs and 35spike1 seem like accomplices.

4th post

On June 05 2011 15:36 iGrok wrote:
Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily.

Is it really too hasty if you plan on (probably) changing your vote? I'm honestly asking. Also, you sound like you're aomewhat experienced, is that right?

He seems to think that iGrok has experience playing in these kinds of events but he’s avoiding the fact that iGrok is trying to investigate into him. A bit scummy imo.

5th post

On June 05 2011 18:31 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +

No. Scum wants Town to mislynch. Scum wants Town not to think about other suspects. Scum wants to make Town jump on one bandwagon and deny EVERY discussion about anything else. They are doing that,not only but they're advocating that as a good thing.

With regards to the Freeloader situation:
a. read the posts. I wasn't advocating mislynching. Lafali, admittedly, somewhat was:
On June 05 2011 15:16 Lafali wrote:
Show nested quote +

His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.

b. As far as "not thinking about other suspects" there WERE no other suspects, this was page one and noone else seemed remotely scummy.
c. there wasn't discussion about anything else and nobody was stopping anybody from talking about anything.

So freeloader got accused on questionable evidence, and then defended himself in a somewhat suspicious fashion. So a couple of noobies (myself included) voted for him early on.

And the Kurumi comes in and makes up shit about what we're doing that has only a grain of truth in it, and treats myself and Lafali (who both voted for freeloader) as proven scum based on 2 and 4 posts (or so). Then, later, Vain posts
+ Show Spoiler +

pointing out that Kurumi's being silly so Kurumi replies with
On June 06 2011 00:27 Kurumi wrote:
@Vain
Let aprudds defend himself.

which is dumb because a. nobody was talking about aprudds - his only relation was that he had been suspicious of freeloader (presumably Kurumi meant me or Lafali, but why conflate us?). And b. an argument is an argument, no matter who it comes from.

Either Kurumi is paranoid or he's scum defending scum, trying to derail any argument against freeloader. I'm leaning towards the former, because apparently he has a history of being like this, but a DT should check him out tonight.

Leaving my vote on freeloader 'cause there's noone with a better case against them. That doesn't speak to strength of the case against freeloader but rather to the weakness of any other case. (not voting Kurumi 'cause if he is scum, then freeloader probably is too).

This is his response to Kurumi’s attack on him. In the first paragraph, smart players could pick up that there were a couple other suspicious people, but he didn’t, then states that he is a noob.Stating that he is a noob is going to be very important as to my final verdict on him. He however notes that the case against freeloader is weak, but then why did he vote in the 1st place then?

6th post

o.O?

Is he confused about why there needs to be a lynch everyday or what? I do not understand this face here.

7th post

Sorry, I should've spelled it out a bit better. I say there needs to be a lynch, so we have to start looking for scum and voting where there's the best case. So Kurumi calls me scum. Then he goes to make a very similar argument. Just juxtaposing the two posts.

Circular and ambigious statements are made here. He states that there needs to be a lynch when he was confused about it in his last post. Also, he says that we have to start looking for scum, when he already voted on freeloader. Very scummy.

8th post

On June 06 2011 09:02 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +

Says the person with only 1 post so far?

Crazy actually has a couple of posts from last night. Use the profile button. Check post history. You both are saying a whole lot of nothing (although, there isn't really much to say this early).

Indirectly defending Crazy’s ideas by making a theory that quantity equals validity.

9th post

On June 06 2011 11:41 Aril wrote:
Heya, I don't think I'll be on tomorrow so I'm voting now.

Care to explain your vote at all?

Reasonable question to ask, Aril is seeming like a lurker to me.

10th post

One really big point - if you're going to quote a really long post it'd be great if you could put it in spoiler tags (just a formatting issue but helps to clean up the page a fair bit). Meaning you, iGrok.

@CjrNinja
Can you confirm that the role PM for mafia members spells out that mafia can communicate by PM? If this is true than obviously mafia wouldn't post that question and I'll change my vote from freeloader. Otherwise, though, he seems even more scummy to me now. I didn't vote for him cause he asked a silly question, it was how he replied to scrutiny. Since then, he hasn't posted in the thread at all. And I can confirm that he's been on TL - check his post history, he's posted a whole bunch in today's MLG live report. Either he's scum and waiting for suspicion to die down or he's town and has given up and resigned himself to getting lynched.

Why did he pick CjrNinja to ask that question? He could have just pmed a mod or Blue texted his question, but he asks a buddy to do so. He states that He didn’t vote for freeloader because he seemed silly, but because of the responses. He was one of the first to vote for Freeloader and his earlier posts stated that he thought freeloader was scum, so he just voted right away. If that isn’t indication that treadmill is a mafia, then I am 2 feet tall.

11th post

+ Show Spoiler +

Hrrrm. That doesn't stop him from being lazy mafia. If mafia members received the info about being allowed to PM in their role PM, then only town wouldn't definitely know that and so only a town would ask. BUT if the information is not explicit in the role PMs, then town and mafia could equally easily not know (and not read fully the OP) and so someone asking could still be either. Does that make sense?

I guess the only people who'd know for certain which it is would be the mafia (who won't show us their role PM to prove it) and the mods (who won't say cause it'd affect the game). Doesn't escape the fact that freeloader, who has been in the lead to be lynched, has been online without posting here at all. Which makes me suspicious.

This feels like more of a copypasta idea rather than something new, as he is just reposting the rules of the game. He twists the statements to make himself look good, but we know he is scummy.

Post 12 is a EBWOP.

13th post

@CjrNinja
Okay, fair enough. I'll unvote freeloader for now.

A bunch of other names have come up, with better or worse cases against them Here's what I think:

Jimbooo - seems more inexperienced than scum. I think that's the consensus so let's focus on other people.

cherubael - I do not understand people's suspicion of him (literally don't understand. If you're voting him, please explain why). Kairo voted for him but even seemed confused in his post:
+ Show Spoiler +

TheAwesomeAll - I don't really understand the case against him either. He posted a list of lurkers. Yay. But he also addressed the only thing that had been discussed up until then (freeloader). I don't think its fair to say someone's trying to post while avoiding talking substantively when there's not really any substance to talk about anyways.

amazingxkcd - the case against him is mostly this post:
On June 06 2011 02:56 amazingxkcd wrote:
It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it

which is admittedly - weird. Reposting the "newbie guides" was in response to a question by rookie44. I want to see more of his posts and how he votes, to get a better sense of him.

Lafali - saying "its OK to mislynch" could be scummy or it could be his honest opinion. Without knowing any playing history I don't think its possible to tell.

grush57 - he has a better case against him than most others. Saying
On June 06 2011 04:12 grush57 wrote:
Im not inactive, I just dont feel like anybody can accuse this early.

and then joining the fl625 bandwagon and saying
On June 06 2011 04:21 grush57 wrote:
Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts.

seems more than a bit weird. Also he hasn't really offered his opinion on anything - those two posts are literally all that he said on freeloader despite voting for him. Alderan made a decent case a little while ago.
_________________________________________________

I'm not sorry for "bandwagonning" freeloader early on 'cause we got some discussion going and got people posting (which is always good for the town). And I still think there's a decent case against him.

Two people I think need to talk more are Benjef who voted, then changed his vote, then made one post about it without really saying anything, and Aril, who voted Kurumi and only said
On June 06 2011 11:41 Aril wrote:
Heya, I don't think I'll be on tomorrow so I'm voting now.

by way of explanation.

I will post the biggest thing here, and it has to do with him wanting me to defend myself. THE ONLY EVIDENCE HE HAS AGAINST ME IS MY 1ST POST AND I EXPLAINED THAT POST IN MY ANALYSIS OF ALDERAN. You will see why that will be important.

14th post

I was about to EBWOP that I think that grush57 was our best lynch. But then freeloader625 posted again. I waited a bit to see if he had any more to say. He didn't, and I'm even more convinced that we should lynch him.

First off, its a big long post showing he's been paying attention to the thread. But he doesn't address anything except the arguments against him. That, in my mind, is the biggest strike against him - if he was town, he'd be concerned with more than just his own survival, he'd want to find out who the mafia are. If he was a good town player he'd talk about some of the other accusations, some of the other discussions - especially since he's indicated that he's been following the thread. And also because, if you look at the last few pages, he hasn't been suspect number one for a while.

Second, freeloader625 sounds like he's trying really hard to sound unconcerned about the allegations against him. That doesn't jive with writing a big post that has no purpose other than defending himself. He's trying to defend himself without sounding like he's defending himself (mostly by jumping on DeMorcerf's and CjrNinja's explanations without really providing his own) - a scummy play for sure.

What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.

I take it as meaning: freeloader625, you are scum. So I'm gonna put that vote I just took off of you back on.

He changes his vote back to freeloader because he doesn’t think there is anyone else to go after. He wants to bring up freeloader because freeloader fell out of the spotlight.

15th post

First, Kurumi, i'd agree that he's a good target for a DT check. (Actually, I argued for that around 5 pages ago but iGrok laid it out much better). And also, either he's scum or a lousy townie. I can buy that some people might think that throwing around wild accusations to provoke a response might be a good idea, but I couldn't disagree more. Especially allegations based on made-up stuff.

I'd tend to agree with the points that omgCrazy made with regards to gtsrs - iGrok. Laying out how many possible blues there are isn't fishing for blues by any stretch of the imagination. gtsrs looks a little scummy - though he could just be dumb. They could both be town, or it could be iGrok town and gtsrs mafia, I don't see it the other way around. The one little worry I have is that BOTH might be mafia and pulling a total mental mindfuck on us.

Lastly:
+ Show Spoiler +

A. Why is freeloader obviously town? You throw that out there without any back-up. I admit (and have admitted) that myself and a few others were very hasty and did bandwagon him early on - because of inexperience. But there's been nothing since to exonerate him.
B. Your argument against iGrok is "vote for him and he'll drop scumtells". Which is stupid - he's an experienced player, that's not gonna happen.
C. You haven't actually addressed any of his arguments about Kurumi, you've just said "he's a good guy, trust me I know, and since iGrok fingered him iGrok must be scum!"

He admits that he was a bit hasty, but then he just said that there is no concrete evidence to lynch freeloader. HIS LAST POST SAID HE WAS GOING TO LYNCH FREELOADER. 2 posts together, and we get this clear juxtaposition. Mafia he is.

16th post.

Just a point
I just woke up, and am reading the thread (that explains my recent inactivity).
I'm reading the thread and will have something to post once I'm done.

He just said that he is reading the thread twice. That’s an English error right there. Let’s see what his next post is to combat his lack of recent posting.

17th post

Firstly, there's something for me to quote from Ver's analysis of Mafia XXX:
Now, what if by some miracle, Youngminii was lynched and flipped green, or worse, vigilante? What would that have said about Foolishness? Think hard and carefully here, because this is a logic issue that really has plagued the town in so many TL games, especially this one. At its core is the question: what does "lynching for information" actually mean?

The lynch outcome alone would have said nothing about Foolishness! If Foolishness is veteran, how does he have any definite knowledge of what Youngminii is? He doesn't, therefore he can only do his best and try to figure out YM's role from the tools he has. That in itself does not distinguish him from Godfather Foolishness one bit. The key distinction between the two is to look at how he got Youngminii lynched and his overall play, not that he got Youngminii lynched. The latter fact, while not entirely irrelevant, is nowhere near sufficient enough on its own to warrant a lynch (and everyone knows if YM had popped up vigi Foolishness would've been autokilled the next day).

Thus it would be nonsensical to lynch YM because you think it will give the most information (the information is next to useless). The only reason to lynch YM, or virtually anyone ever, is to kill mafia. That's it.

There's a lot of wrong-headed thinking going around this game and I want to try and address some of it.

A. as the quote above says, if Mr X accuses Mr Y and Mr Y is lynched and flips town, it doesn't say anything about Mr X. He could be mafia, or he could've made an honest mistake and be town.

B. related to [A], look at the content of people's arguments, not just who they're accusing! If someone accuses someone else with a decent explanation, than even if you disagree with his arguments he probably isn't mafia. It's more suspicious if the reasoning is crappy, though even then you may have misunderstood the reasons or the accuser may be a newbie or a moron.

C. if someone changes their mind, they could be mafia. Or they could've just changed their mind. Again, read their posts. Look for their reasoning - and it could make sense to the poster even if it doesn't to you.

People need to start reading posts more, and listening to peoples arguments rather than making their own (I'm as guilty as anyone on that). The town loses if we're all paranoid and flaming each other.

By his reasoning, he is mafia then. He just said it himself, he is mafia.

18th post

On June 07 2011 06:03 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +

You his scum buddy?

Oh god dammit Jackal, don't even start there. Don't accuse someone of being scum just because he disagrees with you. I do too, for that matter. Until we hear more from rookie44, see how (and when) he votes, there really isn't enough to say (well, imo).

“I do too, for that matter”. I do not understand the context of this sentence and what part it’s referring to. He is waiting for rookie’s responses.

19th post

Alternately rookie44 is blue. Let's see: trying not to be noticed, yeah. Mafia or blue. Interested in what blues have to say, well, OK. Not really blue fishing - more interested in talking about the strategy for what our blues should be doing. That's my read on rookie44, a newbie blue.

I didn't want to out him cause if I'm right I painted a big, fat target on his back. But there's all of a sudden a bandwagon building on him, and with how spread out our votes are the mafia will be able to easily swing a lynch.

Good call, you caught a medic there! You stated that he is a newb blue, so it means that you are not worried about what he could do. Why else would you have such a casual tone?

20th post

I absolutely don't buy the "hunting for blues" nonsense on rookie44. I don't see at all how what he's been saying could lead to blues revealing themselves - one of the people voting for him should lay out the case a bit better.

On June 07 2011 06:01 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +

We'll start with the post I linked:

Show nested quote +

My analysis in red.
This guy is scum.

Point by point:
1. Irrelevant. And battle.net mafia is EXTREMELY different from this.
2. No, he isn't asking people to post their roles. He's asking what people think good strategy for blues would be - which is a reasonable question from town and even more sensible for a blue poster.
3. Alternately, he's honestly a newbie asking experienced players what they think we should be doing.
4. Or, he's giving his reason, as a townie, for asking.

The "analysis" is bullshit. This is bandwagonning at its WORST.

Well, you are only now starting to act like a townsfolk. We know battle.net mafia is different, no need to state that. He’s a newb, and you are taking advantage of him. Only now should you have to find other people to vote for so that you don’t look like mafia.

21st post

On June 07 2011 08:56 Impervious wrote:
Show nested quote +

If this was a day 2 or later lynch, I'd expect something more convincing. But it's not. If you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it.

Almost anyone else would be a better idea. I'm just bothered that wll of a sudden a bunch of people (xkcd, Kurumi, Senj) are jumping on voting for a guy, a handful of hours before the lynch. Especially considering:
Senj is a lurker who's posted the bare minimum to be considered active
amazingxkcd who's posted a whole lot of nothing - his only contributions have been posting one-liners about why other people's ideas are bad
Kurumi - who's been posting a lot, and insanely aggressively, and accusing everyone flat-out of being scum, but when he decides who to vote for he posts a chort and uncertain post wihtout really explaining.

It just seems like the analysis is a lot worse on this case than it has been on a bunch of others - but a couple people started voting for him and set a bandwagon rolling.

As for scummiest posts, I still haven't seen anything to top this:

On June 06 2011 14:21 freeloader625 wrote:
It's true. I spent most of the weekend watching MLG, both streams.

I was keeping an eye on this for all mirror matches though, I just chose not to comment.

Show nested quote +

Yes, I'm ashamed to admit I let pages 2-8 or 9 go without reading it, I assumed it was all just full of "/in's." I only read the first post and posts since the game has officially started.

Show nested quote +

Ohhh dirtay! I didn't not realize outside posts were fair game for this! I was under the impression (initially) that you can't click on ppls profiles/outside posts to avoid cheating or w/e. But I guess that's fair game.

What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.

Jumping back on freeloader now. He lists of people who posted a lot and contributed, but attempted to put them down. Also, he did not read the rules completely, otherwise he would have known about looking at posting history.

22nd post is an EBWOP

23rd post

Another interesting point: Jackal58 makes his case against rookie44, it's pretty weak, the people posting aren't convinced. Nobody but him votes for rookie44. Then an hour later
On June 07 2011 06:28 Kurumi wrote:
##unvote
##vote: Rookie44

On June 07 2011 06:29 Senj wrote:
##vote: Rookie44

On June 07 2011 06:31 amazingxkcd wrote:
##VOTE: Rookie44

Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.

He discovers the time stamp vote scandal. He states that Jackal’s case is bad.

24th post

@iGrok: we're talking about amazingxkcd, Kurumi, and Senj who all out of the blue voted for rookie44 at the same time.

I don;t think that jackal is scum, I think that he believes he has a case against rookie44.

I'm not totally convinced on those three but considering that there're are already suspicions about Kurumi and amazingxkcd and that Senj has been a lurker it looks really suspicious.

He starts to accuse the 3 and now defends Jackal’s post while saying that he thinks jackal isn’t scum. Where is his proof for that?

25th post is about him referring from a guide stating that lynching for information is bad, despite him wanting to do it.

26th post is something random, disregard.

27th post

On June 07 2011 06:34 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +

You seem to be in a position to defend rookie44 when he has made quite a lot of scummy posts, particularly trying to take advantage of noobs to slip up their roles with

Show nested quote +

Also, notices how already from the start of the game, he is asking for roles and wanted to lynch Treadmill without any sound proof besides making a suggestion about the freeloader wagon being loaded with mafias
Show nested quote +

Here, he is making assumptions about what the mafia should do, which is trying to divert attention away from him.

Show nested quote +

for these reasons and the ones given by jackal58 as well as kurumi, i am voting for Rookie44 on the basis of clear scummy post and trying to divert attention away from himself with circular logic
##Vote: Rookie44

also alderan, I am very suspicious of you for trying to defend this guy. Elaborate as to why you think he is not a scum.

And this, here, is amazingxkcd's analysis of rookie44.
There's the line about "trying to divert attention away from himself" when rookie's post was waaay before there WAS any attention on him. Also, the point about "asking for roles" is bullshit - he was asking what we thought blues should do, which is very different.

Also, Alderan basically says "rookie seems little scummy but I'm not convinced" and xkcd starts attacking him. That and the co-ordinated timing of the votes (which is enough evidence by itself, for me), and earlier stuff posted by Alderan. Also this stupid rookie bandwagon. amazingxkcd looks very very red.

How did he pick me? I give reasons, if analyzed by other fellow townies, is pretty convincing and he just singled me out. He clearly had gotten some instruction from Jackal.

28th post

2 mafia getting modkilled is nice, means they're down to 3 KP. On the other hand, we're probably out of medics. Which means the mafia gets to kill pretty much whoever they want.

Hey look! rookie44 was a blue! What a surprise! I'm gonna point out that I totally called that. But not to brag - if I saw it, someone in the mafia probably suspected him of being blue too. In fact it's a little more obvious to them cause they could rule out rookie being red. So i'm even more convinced that the mafia managed to swing that lynch.

I'm pretty comfortable saying that Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi are mafia. To a more experienced player (iGrok or Vain preferably) what would you think of out vigi's shooting at them tonight? I'm maybe 80 or 90% sure, but I'd want someone with more experience to comment.

He states that mafia swung that lynch. He voted for rookie after us 3 voted and so did jackal voted. That is bandwagoning, take note of that. He is also convinced that I deserved to get killed, as well as Senj, and Kurumi, when he has made a case only against me. Why Senj? Treadmill has said nothing about him all game and he wants a kill on him already? Mafia to me.

29th post

Errm. Lafali just did something rather unfortunate, which would be to vote for Rookie44 after the end of the day, where he was modkilled and shown to be mafia:

On June 07 2011 13:18 Lafali wrote:
##Vote Rookie44

So sorry if I was late, I was out tonight.

which increases my suspicion that rookie's lynch was scum-motivated.

He voted for rookie, and so did many other people did too. If we look at this statement, It will be clear that he just indicated himself as Mafia since he voted only after the first 4 voted, all of whom had legit reasons.

30th post (I’m going to stop after this one because the evidence against him is already enough to convince him as mafia scum)

On June 07 2011 13:49 iGrok wrote:
Jackal's push to lynch rookie came out of fucking nowhere, and gathered way too much steam. I thought about reasons why he would do that, and one possible reason is that he was drawing attention from freeloader. I'm not certain of course, but it would be a good play, particularly if Jackal is the Godfather and was worried about losing KP due to inactivity & the lynch.

Oh, and I'm sure there are arrows missing, those are just the ones I could remember off the top of my head.

I'm not convinced that Jackal is scum. He advocated for Rookie's lynch, yes, but all day one everyone was advocated to lynch a different person. What I suspect is that the mafia saw it and jumped on it as an opportunity, about an hour later:
On June 07 2011 09:35 Treadmill wrote:
Another interesting point: Jackal58 makes his case against rookie44, it's pretty weak, the people posting aren't convinced. Nobody but him votes for rookie44. Then an hour later
Show nested quote +

Show nested quote +

Show nested quote +

Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.

when Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi all vote for rookie at the same time. It's the main reason I think all three are scum.

On June 07 2011 14:00 iGrok wrote:
One thing I notice now is that Treadmill has the most arrows. Treadmill, you are an interesting person...

Everything he's done has been in the right. Everything. When it was unpopular, he stood by his ideas. He's defended those he felt were wrongly accused, and and accused those he felt were guilty.

IMO, Treadmill is Town.

Aww, <3.

iGrok, you’re making a mistake! If you are reading my analysis, and you still think he’s town, I got a guy named Flamewheel whose gonna Flame Strike the shit out of you.

Thus in all, Verdict is

[B]MAFIA SCUM

[*] Drazerk
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

Ok yesterday i was quite busy and made my vote without explaining i read freeloaders post and it came to me as quite a large failure on his half although and bought into treadmills words who was pretty much slating him at this point for it who in turn im now suspecting after reading everything again

Ill follow this up later just wanted to post my thoughts at the moment

Fail lurker comment. Don’t just vote without saying something.

2nd post

On June 07 2011 08:15 heist wrote:
An updated list after the massive amount of rookie votes:

Rookie: 5
Freeloader: 4
Treadmill: 2
Drazerk: 2
jimbooo:2
igrok: 2
monsterdrakar: 2
gtrsrs: 2
amazingxkcd: 1
Kurumi: 1
TheAwesomeAll: 1

Can the people who voted monsterDrakar and Drazerk explain themselves?

Hell i can explain for them, Ive been lurking for the better part of this first day and i voted without saying anything

When i got up this morning I did make a small post but nothing major bar changing my vote from freeloader to treadmill after reading all the posts and believing he was not scum

With my erratic voting / posting pattern i would not be surprised if more people voted for me though and ill try to make amends tomorrow

Another post making excuses about lurking, the only thing correct is that you voted for treadmill.

3rd post

On June 07 2011 09:35 Treadmill wrote:
Another interesting point: Jackal58 makes his case against rookie44, it's pretty weak, the people posting aren't convinced. Nobody but him votes for rookie44. Then an hour later
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Show nested quote +

Show nested quote +

Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.

Good catch by the looks of things every vote for Rookie has been within 5 mins of one another leading me to believe that this is very organised

Because there are a lot of inexperienced players ( my self included ) band wagoning will occur more often allowing the scum to get easier Lynch kills in the earlier days until we either prove or disprove Jackel's Theory

In my opinion Rookie is more inexperienced than Scum material

He gives his opinions, but he doesn’t back it up. However, he is just jumping on the bandwagon way too much already.

Complete Lurker, not responding to requests, also jumping on bandwagons. He did vote once for treadmill, which just confuses the hell out of me. Verdict is

[B]EXTREMELY SCUMMISH UNKOWN

I do want to make him a pure mafia scum is simply because he voted for treadmill once.

[*] Jimbooo
+ Show Spoiler +

As for Jimboo’s case, his case has already been outlined and he was voted by 4 guys, one of who was confirmed a townie by death.

His verdict

SCUMMISH MAFIA I HAVE NO CLUE WHY HE VOTED TREADMILL LURKER

[*] Aril
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

On June 05 2011 13:47 Treadmill wrote:
It is a good spot, aprudds. We should keep an eye on freeloader625.

Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet.

If someone was asking a question that might be incriminating, and they weren't mafia, wouldn't the mafia be quick to accuse that person, to keep someone "actually" in the mafia from getting lynched?

I think going after a person because of a question is a little low..

He is questioning the bandwagoning that was being formed. That’s a good move since the bandwagon was hasty and ill-wrought.

2nd post

On June 05 2011 14:39 cherubael wrote:
Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him.

Defending people in this situation isn't wrong. There is a suspicious atmosphere floating around everyone and half of us are townies so you know what I mean, we want to get some conversation out here so we can actual get a good look at what a everyone's saying, and it only hurts the town if they're afraid everything they say is going to get them falsely accused.

We shouldn't all gang up on people right away and if we do then I'll be on the defending side until they make their case and I can make my own reasonable judgement.

He is playing the role of public defender. That alone is enough for me to simply label him as a TOWNIE

[*]TranceStorm
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

Hey everyone, I just got into the thread, and have a few quick observations to make.

On the topic of freeloader: I don't think he would be mafia off of his initial question. Having played a previous game as mafia, mafia members are explicitly aware of the fact that they are allowed to PM one another meaning that he would not need to ask that question in the first place. Given that he said that "he read the rules twice", there is no reason to believe that he would not read his role PM as closely.

Many people have concluded that his responses to being put under pressure are suspicious, but I don't think so. If anything, a mafia member would not want to put themselves under increased suspicion with cryptic statements - they want to hide, not increase the chances that they will be caught out. This, however, is not as strong as the first reason I had said above.

Judging based off of day 1 analysis will never be entirely solid, however, the people that jumped the gun to vote for freeloader are more suspicious then freeloader himself.

Seems innocent enough, giving an explanation as to his stance on freeloader being under pressure.

2nd post

On June 06 2011 11:02 cherubael wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

This and the comment on the inactivelist is the only relevant information 35spike1 has posted. This leaves him off the list, but he seems to have nothing relevant to say. This seems a little suspicious, so I think that keeping an eye on him would be a good idea, though I wouldn't say he's scum...yet.

Wait until after this day to start accusing lurkers of being suspicious or what not. After the first day, voting lists will be drawn up and inactive/lurker lists will be drawn up as well. When that happens we can pressure them - ask them what they think of the situation and why they voted for X. Lurkers have a high chance of being mafia but also a high chance of being a blue role as well.

This statement of his is a complete townie move as he knows that the lurkers will be pressured soon anyway, so he is going to concentrate on the more active players.

3rd post

On June 06 2011 23:59 Kurumi wrote:
Oh,about voting:
People who voted on freeloader625 and not switched(ever):
cherubael
teamsolid
grush57
People who voted on freeloader625 then swtiched:
Treadmill(vote->unvote->vote again)
Drazerk -> Treadmill
Jimboo -> unvote
Lafali -> unvote
People who switched on freeloader625:
Benjef Treadmill -> freeloader
I will try to dig why they have voted on freeloader/changed their votes/dropped the case.
The scummiest guy? As for now,it would be Lafali;gtrsrs case is the thing I will get into in a quick moment,because there's a bit of content to analysis,but mostly when "weaker' player attacks "stronger" player it is overeager Townie versus Townie.

I posted my analysis on Jimboo earlier - I want to see his response and his explanation for quickly turning around despite advocating for restraint. If he doesn't respond with a sufficient response then I will definitely vote for him.

As to Lafali, I don't have a clear read on him at all. He's posted a couple of one-liners and a single defensive post as well. Not enough for any serious analysis. In any case, I believe that Jimbooo is definitely the stronger candidate.

I have already stated that Jimbooo is most likely scum materials and trancestorm confirms that. I do not have time to go in more depth analysis, but I have read the rest of his posts, and confirmed that he is a townie, despite being wrong about he.

[*] heist
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

Freeloader's last two responses were really vague and general. I'm not really suspicious of the people defending his first post, but the his last two posts do seem fairly fishy.

He is making a scummy post here. He states that freeloader is being vague, but he does not question any of the accusations against freeloader as a single bit scummy.

2nd post is just him being an idiot by not reading the rules and the Mod’s posts. However, he seems a bit shocked that people know the amount of mafia members there are.

3rd post, he apologizes for his mistake.

4th post

On June 06 2011 05:33 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +

this list doesn't tell anything about the people on the list... Maybe they're just lurking like I was.
You can delete me from that list btw.

This list is meant to pressure people into posting. It's meant to highlight the people that are lying low and "lurking". I expect mafia, esp in a game with so many inexperienced users, to try to remain innocuous and not garner much attention on the early game. A townie would not feel as much pressure and wouldn't care about this list. You, however, seem really concerned about getting off this list.

You say its too early to judge anyone especially before we get to really know anyone. But how do you expect us to judge you if your posts are meaningless (unless you dont want us to judge you)? How you post and your response to accusations and early votes are the only means we have to go on. Currently your posts as Kurumi states are pure fluff. They tell us nothing about you and seem like you're just trying to just accomplish your post quota without saying anything.

Very fluffy responses made here. He supports the list of people who haven’t posted yet, despite the fact that its barely 12 hours into the game and there are 48 hours in the game. Very scummy like.

5th post

On June 06 2011 18:06 Pyo wrote:
After reading the posts up to now, I am reasonably confident that freeloader is probably a townie and the ambiguity of early accusers and their motivations means that there's not much to be learned from lynching him, although it might be inevitable at this point. Since his post in his defense haven't really been all that constructive anyway it isn't really a big loss, so I'm not gonna fight it.

The players that I find annoying are by far Haiku boy and Kurumi. So if ever I'm undecided about who to vote for it'll probably be one of them.

I think it is interesting to note all the little 1v1 bickering going on, the most recent example of which is between iGrok and gtrsrs. I think it is reasonable to assume that two mafia wouldn't orchestrate a mini feud this early on, which means that either both are town or only one is town.

So combining my last 2 paragraphs, I think I'm gonna have to change my vote to iGrok.

If I am to understand correctly, the two people who you find MOST suspicious and in need of lynching are basically the talkers, the ones generating discussion, if a bit rash on Kurumi's end. Im trying to shift through the arguments against iGrok and the number one reason i can come up with is his haikus which you find personally annoying. This is probably one of the most flimsy excuses to lynch someone i have ever read. Your post does not outline any reasonable level of analysis to claim iGrok or Kurumi as scum. Basing your vote on who annoys you the most is by far one the most detrimental ways to approach your vote. Your personal decisions on who to lynch mean little to the rest of the town if you dont back it up well. You should be using your posts to try to persuade the town with logical claims and observations about these players.

Bickering though unfortunate is bound to happen with wounded egos. This early I think it's a little premature to call anyone mafia if they are arguing with someone else.

And while we are talking about Kurumi or iGrok, people like grush57 are remaining largely ignored. This is the extent of his posts:

On June 06 2011 04:21 grush57 wrote:
Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts.

On June 06 2011 04:12 grush57 wrote:
Im not inactive, I just dont feel like anybody can accuse this early.

On June 06 2011 09:02 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +

Says the person with only 1 post so far?

On June 06 2011 09:10 grush57 wrote:
Oh, sorry, only checked back a couple pages.

Easy one-liner responses. He claims that bandwagoning Freeloader was a stupid decision but has yet to revert his vote. He claims he isn't inactive yet does not post. To me he warrants far more suspicion.

Better post here. He does a little bit of analyzing and determines that grush57 seems a bit scummish. At least his reasonings make sense for once.

6th post

It seems like a lot of our votes are getting split into multiple people.

First of all, I want to strongly advise everyone who voted for freeloader to strongly reconsider their vote. If freeloader was taken out of the equation who would you vote for? why? There are been enough posts that warrant much more suspicious behavior than freeloader's question. I think it's been an easy mafia move to just bandwagon freeloader, feel safe in the numbers, and be able to provide an easy explanation.

I'd also think it would be highly prudent if we went into this lynch with some sort of collective strategy. On day 1 there are really only two justifications for a lynch that i can see:

1. Everything related to freeloader (those who voted for him so quickly, those that changed their mind, those that provided a weak/suspicious defense when questioned, and to a MINISCULE degree freeloader himself). Most likely, if we killed everyone who voted for him, perhaps we get one or two mafia members. But right now it seems like the majority of the votes are simply rushing townies (please reconsider). However, pressuring these people into responding may come up with incongruities, anti-town suspicions and actions, and perhaps a reliable person to accuse.

2. The second way to approach the lynch is target the lurkers, the ones with very weak justifications for votes, and those that are overtly defensive when questioned without providing any real defense to allegations. Those that touch base, have a 1 liner quip, and then depart.

These have are some people that are very suspicious to me in that regard:

Grush57
Supersoft
Lafali
amazingxkcd
gtrsrs (to a lesser extent)

Everyone should really reevaluate who they voted for. If the primary reason is aggression, that's simply not enough to go by on. Aggression right now whether it be personal or otherwise can be construed as both town and mafia and is high unreliable differentiating mafia from town.
Also, personal annoyances are the LEAST effective means to go by on. Please don't vote like that.

I'm curious as to which you deem more effective, the one we should be pursuing because too much chatter has been focused on the first while the second approach (the one i deem with a larger mafia pool) to be less examined.

He is doing a bit of circling with freeloader, since he suspected freeloader originally. He then goes on to list 5 people, (one who is dead, one who is me, and one for whom he has only written a reason). He does not give much reasoning for why it would be this 5. A bit scummish to me.

7th post is a list he made of the votes after the bandwagon switch on rookie. He asks monsterDrakar and Drazerk for reasoning. This seems a bit more of a town move since mafia wouldn’t really question why their fellow comrades voted the way they did.

8th post

yes I can explain myself. I judged over monsterDrakar too quick. I am used to the sc2 mafia, where everything has to be very quick and most votes happen to be intentional...
Despite of that, I will stick to my vote, since monsterDrakar obviously won't be lynched and I really don't know who to vote for, as I described in my last post.

Sorry but that's a terrible reason to vote for someone. You believe, as of now, monsterDrakar is most likely not mafia. Yet you refuse to unvote him. Yes, no one is sure of anything at this point but its simply lazy to refuse to revote based on whats occuring now especially in regards to Rookie.

It would also be interesting to hear your read on the other person who voted for monsterDrakar.

He is questioning the people who made votes without much thoughts. He is trying to contribute more to the town discussions.

9th post is a redundant statement about mafia trying to lie there.

10-11 Is just restating what I said.

12th post

OK, this close to the end of Day 1, I'd like to ask everyone who voted for Freeloader, Drazerk, and Jimbooo to revote. I'm not saying they aren't mafia. They very well could be especially Jimboo who remains highly suspicious. However, THEY WILL NOT BE LYNCHED. You won't achieve majority and your votes will be meaningless.

I really urge you all to consider Impervious' plan. There's no real solid long-term plan if we do lynch Jimbooo no matter what he turns up. If you're voting based purely on suspicious behavior alone, Amazingxkcd has given off no pro-town vibe. His early posts contributed nothing useful and his latter posts are mainly defensive posts against a multitude of other people (i.e Drazerk, alderan, kairo,).

Also, why are people still voting for Freeloader.....

He is acting like a dumb townie. He knows that the freeloader case is quite stupid, but he is making a mistake with me. Impervious made a major mistake as well, but heist is just blindly following him since I started to act more like kurumi now.

That being said, I really can’t say much about him, so I am going on a hunch and just state that his verdict is

TOWN-siding UNKOWN

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 04:09 GMT

#912

[*] Sprungjeezy
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

Pretending that question is anything but a very suspicious question is foolish in my honest opinion.

But I agree, it would be rash to vote him now with no actual information.

This is him talking about theAwesomeAll’s notes on freeloader. He makes some good observations but really doesn’t bring anything else.

2nd post

Kurumi, you come off as a towny that is reading too far into too little. It's important to remember that this game is full of beginners and important to remember people will try to take advantage of that, but people will still make mistakes such as hopping on a bandwagon without really thinking into it.

Time for bed for me though. Cya tomorrow.

He’s reading into Kurumi as a fellow townie.

BECAUSE I CAN PROVE THAT KURUMI IS A TOWNIE, and also because I never had suspicions of Sprungjeezy, verdict is

Townie

[*] monsterDrakar
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

Hello dudes,

I just woke up to find out that the Mafia has begun their attack on the innocent townies. Hell, it was about time. It's gonna be a looooooong day.

I really can't support aprudds random accusation based on a question asked before the game. It seems to me that he is just testing the water so to speak - who is willing to quick vote, who is willing to jump on bandwagons, who will try to defend the inoccent until they are proven guilty without a doubt, and who is going to lurk and never post until directly mentioned? Waaaay to early to answer those questions.

So let's have ourselves a nice clean random lynch at Day1, and most importantly Good Luck and Have Fun.

“Let’s have a nice clean random lynch at Day 1”. SCUM ALERT, MAN THE FLAMETHROWERS, KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

2nd post

Vain you make me look silly in your summary, but its great otherwise.
I quickly made a list of inactive people, you can ignore the numbers.
+ Show Spoiler +

I will quickly make a list of people who annoy me with their first post.
- Hide Spoiler -

TheAwesomeAll

You got my vote. You earned it.

SCUM ALERT! KILL IT WITH MORE FIRE!!!

3rd post

Show nested quote +

More explanation, please. Why does this annoy you? Why do you feel justified voting for people who annoy you rather than people that you suspect are mafia?

Yes, it was very rude of me to not provide an explanation. I will not post one liners in the future. It's simple really:

A guy comes out of nowhere and makes a list with "innactives" when the game hasn't been running even for a full day. I would expect some people had not seen the thread at that time. The guy himself has JUST become "active", so he isn't on the list. What was more annoying was that the list wasn't even accurate. He posted an updated version (after being corrected by another player) and it still wasn't accurate. He makes himself appear helpful, while providing an absolutely useless piece of information. I do in fact categorize that behavior as scummy.

As I said before, I have no interest in participating in the bandwagon lynch of freeloader625. So all-in-all, if I am going to random lynch someone with a 1/5 chance of them being mafia, TheAwesomeAll seems like the best target so far.

“if I am going to random lynch someone with a 1/5 chance of them being mafia, TheAwesomeAll seems like the best target so far”. WTF!!! WHY WON’T HE DIE!! WHERES THE NAPALM?? WE GOTTA BLOW UP HIS WHOLE BLOCK!!!

VERDICT

MAFIA SCUM!! LYNCH HIM, KILL HIM! DOWN WITH THE REDS!!!

[*] freeloader625
+ Show Spoiler +

The first accused person. I am not going to post anything on him since everyone is now convinced that he’s innocent, so verdict is

CONFUSEDTOWNIE

[*] TheAwesomeAll
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

I think freeloaders mistake is that he dropped a pretty suspicious question when everyone is searching for the smallest clue. Personally i think he was being stupid asking that question, not necessarily scum.

On June 05 2011 16:39 TheKK wrote:
Freeloader asked a legitimate question IMO.

it was a question only Mafia would want to ask, he probably was just curious but still it was pretty silly. I however agree with aprudd that freeloader should be kept an eye on, but lets not quite lynch him for something that small yet.

TheKK was mafia. He stated that would be a question only mafia would want to ask, why else is there any reasons for doing so?

Also, because I am convinced that he’s innocent regardless, I am not posting more about him
Verdict

townie

[*] supersoft
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post is supersoft stating that he can be removed from lurker list. A bit fishy imo.

2nd post

st can be treated like it never happened,You know? What are Your thoughts on freeloader bandwagon? Who's Your scum suspect #1?

I don't have a scum suspect on day1. It's too early to judge anyone.
It's just not reasonable to randomlynch someone in the first round, before we got to know each other a little bit.

He’s right. It is too early to judge anyone nor it is reasonable to random lynch as some people were advocating for.

3rd post

This list is meant to pressure people into posting. It's meant to highlight the people that are lying low and "lurking". I expect mafia, esp in a game with so many inexperienced users, to try to remain innocuous and not garner much attention on the early game. A townie would not feel as much pressure and wouldn't care about this list. You, however, seem really concerned about getting off this list.

You say its too early to judge anyone especially before we get to really know anyone. But how do you expect us to judge you if your posts are meaningless (unless you dont want us to judge you)? How you post and your response to accusations and early votes are the only means we have to go on. Currently your posts as Kurumi states are pure fluff. They tell us nothing about you and seem like you're just trying to just accomplish your post quota without saying anything.

and that's bad because? I don't get your point. If someone wants to expose himself, he may do so. I won't, because if I do so, either Mafia shoots me at night, or town lynchs me at day - depending on Last edit: 2011-06-06 07:17:00
what I am, or what you guys think I am.

He shouldn’t reveal himself as he has said, but he can bread crumb about what he is. This 3rd post is a bit vague, but why would town want to lynch him if he is a fellow town? Only way to explain that is he is the miller.

4th post

okay I didn't know I have to vote... sorry for that.
But since I have to, I voted monsterDrakar.

I voted for him because he voted against theawesomeall with a poor reason. I think theawesomeall -with his list - is obviously a scary player for mafiosi and other people that don't want to be in the spotlight. At first, I was a bit shocked too, when I saw my name at the lurkerlist. But now I think it's the right move to really start this. So I think monsterDrakar is scum and wants to undermine the credibility of someone who puts some facts on the table.

He makes a good point. He admits that he was a bit scared of the list, but he knows that it is just a tool used to pressure people. He then votes against someone who clearly was agitated by that list, so interpretation of this may be strong or not.

5th post is him stating he is confused. I sincerely hope you get to read this, because this is the clearest post you’ll ever read in this thread.

6th post

Guys, basically you stated two points against rookie:

1. He wanted to know whether there are strategies, more experienced players usually use in former games. That doesn't mean he's mafia just because he wants to know the strategy. Anyone needs these informations. blues needs it, to know who to check/heal; mafia needs it to know who to frame/kill and the greens have to know the strategy to lynch correctly... So I think this doesn't mean anything

2. He has been quiet since this post. Well, some of us just don't have the time to be active in this thread 24/7. I spend my whole day in university learning taxlaw. That doesn't make anyone suspicious.

I heard every possible argument against and in favor already for anyone in here.
If someone posts and analyses much he's suspicious, because he tries to be a good townie - on the other hand if someone is really quiet he's suspicious because he is no good townie...
If someone votes aggressively against someone, he's suspicious because he wants to kill - if he doesn't vote he's suspicious because he doesn't want anyone to get lynched.
Moreover we got reds and blues, both don't want their roles to be known, so everyone pretends to be a green townie... It's a mess...
I just want to say, that we have to be careful with soft-points like activity etc.

Here, he is warding against the mindgames played by everyone in the thread. He just showed himself as a noobie by this post and it is now clear that he has never played a game of Forum mafia before.

7th post is him explaining his experience (SC2 mafia).

8th post

Shit. Sorry Rookie. And no. I am not the best player in this game. If you have that in your head flush it out now. I already said I suck on day 1 and 2. I made a case. I was wrong. All I can do is move on.

i told you guys that it was stupid. we should have someone inactive get hanged. that mediclynch was either retarded or done by the mafia.
if the mafia stood behind that, i think they wanted to draw attention from their newby-member freeload. he would have been lynched if rookie wasn't... i am not sure about that, but it might be.

i also don't buy the "i am bad the first two days" thing. from now on noone should trust these accusations against newby player just because they ask something related to how the mafiatalk works or what strategy may be used...
arguments for lynching someone should be based on his votings and his accusations

He is adding more evidence to my case against Jackal58 on him being the Godfather. Real mafia wouldn’t just say they suck on day 1 and 2, that’s a massive slip of tongue. BYE BYE Jackal

9th post

exactly. DTs should check these three guys that jumped on the bandwagon at the exact same time. kurumi and these other guys. someone mentioned it earlier in this thread. but searching posts with my iphone is super painful. at least i still don't trust jackal. i think his excuse "bad the first days" means: dont lynch me i'll get valuable for you.
noone wanted to lynch him, so why should he defend himself like this? explain yorself, jackal!

He also notices that Jackal is hiding, and wants a response.

Verdict
TOWNIE

[*]Xedat
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post is Xedat stating why he hasn’t said anything (6 hour train ride? Where you going, Sweden?)

2nd post

Generally, you can only "know" if someone is mafia by their voting and their posting. If you do a lot of helpful posts you seem to be town. If 32 of the 40 people would post a lot of helpful posts we could be sure that the rest are highly probable of being scum. Especially on day one it is important for people to say a lot so we can read the. That means that it is in your interest for the town to be active if you are town and the opposite if you are scum.

His argument is true on the lower level, but this is high class mafia games, even if geared for beginners, so he is simply stating obvious things.

3rd post

I just read through the whole thread, it looks like people started more useful posts later on, reading through pages 8-17 was a chore.

I think it is established that freeloader625's question is not a scum tell, as GGQ told us that they have a "quick topic" and would know if he was scum.

Treadmill, Jimboo, cherubael and Lafali were a bit too eager, maybe one of them is mafia but I don't think all of them. I also don't know why Treadmill was singled out from all of them, he was the first one to vote and give a half good explanation, Jimboo and cheru said we shouldn't be too hasty and then still voted for freeloader.

I definitely think that Kurumi's hyperactive style is not helpful, he also didn't answer any of iGrok's allegations.

I actually don't know who I should vote for today, I don't think that I can actually vote for someone thinking he is more scummy than 1/5 probability.

I will vote for Monsterdrakar because his reason for voting theawesomeall (Lists of inactives are bad) is stupid and I think that contributing should not be met with pointless allegations.

Here is his first good contribution. Everyone he listed above as suspicious were either confirmed mafia or I proved their guilt in their respective analysis.

Because of this, Verdict is

Townie

Since he doesn’t need more explanation to prove his stance.

[*] grush57
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

Im not inactive, I just dont feel like anybody can accuse this early.

Scummy post, especially after voting on the freeloader wagon.

2nd post

Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts.

Admits he was bandwagoning on freeloader for no reason. Also very scummy.

3rd post is simply him being dumb and not fully reading the rules.

4th post is him saying sorry for being stupid

5th post is after eons of pages

I'm pretty sure gtsrs is scum. He is keep accusing people with little info and keep saying he will risk his life, even though he would be scrambling to save himself if he was up to be lynched.
Therefore, I vote gtsrs.

Gtsrs only accused iGrok at this point, and it seems that grush doesn’t know about it.

Not much information is needed, so Verdict is

MAFIA SCUM

[*]CjrNinja
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

Gl hf everyone.

Day 1 thoughts:

Freeloader625 innocently asks a silly question and gets a lot of heat on him because of it. I doubt he is scum, experienced players have already said that mods make it clear to mafia that they can communicate outside the thread. I’d say that his posts shows him to be more town orientated because of it. so all those voting for Freeloader please unvote him immediately so as to avoid a mislynch. Subsequent posts are ambiguous one-liners, not really much to go on, looks silly but not screaming scum to me.

Speaking of which, the people who have voted for freeloader625:

Cherubael- Not sure about this guy. Pushed for the freeloader vote, which raised my suspicions of until I saw that he pointed out 35spike1s post and further lack of contribution (see below).
On June 05 2011 13:54 cherubael wrote:
Also, the fact that he states he's only played SC2 Mafia before does seem like he is attempting to appear to be inexperienced. A little bit too defensive for a townie, in my opinion.

Please elaborate on the last part for me.

Jimbooo- vote retracted. Quick to jump the gun for a lynch, but realizes his mistake and unvotes quickly. Probably too overeager, no scummy posts.

Lafali- vote retracted.
On June 05 2011 15:16 Lafali wrote:
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.

WTF is this shit? Hopping on the voting bandwagon is exactly what scum does in order to lynch townies. Good job, way to do the scum’s work for them. Based on this post alone it makes you either scum, or a very clueless townie. You’re my prime suspect atm but I’ll withhold voting for you until after I see how you defend yourself.

Treadmill, Benjef, Drazerk, grush57. Don’t really have much of a read on these guys. Treadmill pretty hasty in his posts like Jimbooo, but went about it in a more scummy way. Can you all please unvote Freeloader for now and wait until some of the more legitimate candidates for your vote continue posting?

Others:
35spike1
On June 05 2011 13:57 35spike1 wrote:
Good luck have fun!

Cherubael's right, I'm not liking freeloader625 at the moment...

All the one liners regarding the freeloader post aren’t helping town, it gives the opportunity for scum to fly under the radar and post rubbish like this and getting away with it unchecked. Keeping my eye on 35spike1. Time for a contribution please.

Kumuri- Pretty experienced. Very forward with his opinion and is looking at the right people. Definitely the most day1 pro-town person we have at the moment.

Amazingxkcd- Stop posting obvious, non contributing shit. “It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it.” That post has no value whatsoever except as a front for you to appear active.
Also, your copy+paste post on the guides to mafia are equally useless. Analysis on the game please, if other people haven’t already read the 4th post on this thread, then it’s their loss.

TheAwesomeAll- He made a list, and he’s checking it twice. No big deal, a good way to keep track of people who haven’t contributed much, if anything. Don’t know why people are getting so riled up about it though monsterDrakar?

Conclusion/tl;dr: Everyone stop voting forFreeloader and keep your eyes on what Lafali, Cherubael, 35spike1 and Amazingxkcd have to say.

/rant

In my eyes, he is 100% correct. He did not know about benjef being replaced so I will leave that be.

2nd post

You're an experienced player arn't you?
Your posts are very pro-town, helpful advice. Pretty sure you're a green, but reserving judgement for now until you share your thoughts on some other players. Who seems the most suspicious to you?
I don't understand why people were getting so irate over your haikus, just seems like you're having some fun. ^^

gtrsrs Unless I missed it earlier, can you please elaborate as to why you voted for iGrok?

1st mistake. He was too gullible to answer the stupid question that iGrok made to test the noobies.

3rd post is him proving that Freeloader is lazy. This post should completely put all votes off of him, but for those who stayed on him after that post, they are 95% mafia scum.

4th post is just more discussion from his 3rd post

5th post

Freeloader625
+ Show Spoiler +

What is this? Are you trying to role play as a miller or something?? Stop it. If you're town; please stop posting like this and give us some coherent thoughts. All you're doing at the moment is digging a deeper hole for yourself and making it easier for others to vote for you. -.-

@ iGrok
I disagree with your player analysis. I think Kumuri is taking a very pro-town initiative by putting a lot of pressure on inexperienced players. It's a good opportunity to gauge reactions and hopefully pick up on a scum slip if the accused can't handle the pressure ^^
Also, the less attention towards blue roles, the better... last thing town needs is an inexperienced playing letting slip his blue role on day1.

His analysis of kurumi gives him pro-town vibes as of now.

6th post is him questioning 35Spike1’s voting changes

7th post

@rookie44
Hurry up and respond to Alderan's question. Do you still advocate voting for gtrsrs? If so, give us a proper explanation as to why. Saying 'for the reasons above' and 'refering to himself in third person' isn't good enough. If you're not going to vote gtrsrs, then who? And why?

Will re-read the thread again to try and get a handle on what's happened the last few hours.

Voting closes in 5 hours, right?

He is asking rookie to defend himself and why gtrsrs should be voted for. Rookie never quite delivered, but I can’t attack him on that.

I am not going to talk any longer since the rest of his posts confirm this pro-town attitude. Verdict is

Townie

[*] Pyo
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

Scum will unvote after someone called it out to remain 'unsuspicious". Also why the heck Town would lynch person generating discussion and bringing scummy suspects? Scum would like to lynch me,but they can just kill me at night.

I find this hilarious because you got lynched day 1 in the last mafia for being really talkative early on. So either you didn't learn your lesson or you aren't a townie this time. I'm leaning toward the former.

Judging solely on my post-hoc analysis of XXXIX in preparation for my first mafia game, in the first cycle, if you give a spot on analysis and make good accusations, mafia will kill you ASAP (chaoser). If you blab a ton, you get lynched (kurumi).

After that inactivity gets modkilled or lynched, Confirmed townies become the targets to get mafia killed. It's kind of weird, but the townies who ended up lasting the longest actually had some degree of suspicion on them.

I was also surprised by how proactive mafia are about trying to shed suspicion on others early on in the game. In other words, I think this is a totally wrong or misleading statement:

On June 05 2011 15:40 Treadmill wrote:
I suspect that most of the mafia are gonna be trying to lay low, post only "check-in" posts and whatnot. So keep your eyes peeled for that sort of thing - although, early on, that kinda posting might just mean its midnight and people want to go to bed (so gtsrs and 35spike1 are off the hook for now).

Also given how quick people are to lynch the first signs of suspicion, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of townies especially newer players would try to lay low and get a feel for how the game would play out (that was my plan going in at least).

Unless something interesting comes up I'll probably vote for one of the following:
freeloader - for his really weird/suspicious defense posts
aprudds - for a really arbitrary out of nowhere accusation
treadmill - for trying too hard to lay the blame on freeloader
Kurumi - because it would be hilarious to lynch someone who is clearly very excited to play this game on the first day two mafia games in a row

Did I say that I have been working on this report for 6 hours now? Fuck you guys

He makes a true statement about mafia behavior. He also thinks that lynching kurumi would be hilarious. Kurumi didn’t die yet, so here’s to your statement!

2nd post

Also, I'm going on a trip for a couple days. I should have internet, but I'm not entirely sure, so I'm going to cast a vote with the intention of changing it later - I just want to get my vote in so i don't get nabbed for inactivity

Complete Scummy post. You derailed Treadmill’s post then you are doing what he said mafia would do. Go afk for awhile and make a random lynch.

3rd post

@Pyo
Because Your arguments are dumb I am going to ignore You.
A tip: In mafia XXXIX I was spreading chaos in the Town,also I was really scummy. I wasn't talkative,I was spammy. If You want any meta reads,go check PYPI and PTP.

As a noob, it's somewhat difficult to distinguish "talkative" from "spammy". I just threw out a vote for you since (A) I want/need to get my vote out while I can (B) voting for someone who noone else is going to vote for is tantamount to abstaining (C) as someone who definitely has played mafia before, I assumed that amongst noobs, you'd be adequately adept at defending yourself if suspicion actually turned to you (D) I made a post indicating that my vote for you was joke if anything, but since you seem offended i'll change my vote.

Also, just out of curiosity, since the game wasn't filled only with noobs, how many people here actually have mafia experience?

Fishing for experience, very scummy.

4th post

You're not going to participating in lynching the most scummy player Pyo? While I understand place holder votes You need to know that people like me will remember that. I want to see a good post after You're back.

And who exactly is the most scummy player? Freeloader? If it freeloader really is a scum and people are all jumping on him, wouldn't other scum try to draw attention away from themselves by sacrificing him? In other words by encouraging others to go for him, or at least promoting mob mentality, isn't that a huge red flag as being scum? Maybe I should change my vote back after all...

Are people actually vindictive in mafia? Wouldn't that draw too much attention to themselves? Either way, my apologies, don't kill me off too quick

Also, what counts as a "good post"? Maybe point out an example? From what I've seen looking through old mafias is that "good posts" that are too on target, especially early on end up getting you killed.

He confirmed that freeloader was an innocent since a lot of people jumped away from him, when he said if freeloader was scum, the bandwagon would stay there. Bandwagon did not stay there. Hmmm…
5th post

By the most scummy player I meant Your suspicion.

My list wasn't in any particular order.

An example of good post would be an analysis pointing out the biggest slips of player X leading Town in a Scum lynch.Remember though: there's nothing wrong about being wrong(unless You're redtooth,then You commit suicide on Day 3) A good post could be summing up who attacked who and who defended who + Your thoughts about it. Everything that generates discussion is good. You must remember though,that without good evidence there's probably no point in bringing something new,because this will cause chaos.
Pyo,it is too fast for scum to bus too.

what does "bus" mean? Sorry I don't know all the mafia lingo yet.

Freeloader's situation is really uncertain. His small,but bandwagon is based on shitty evidence. "He asked a question,no townie would ask it!" Think for a second. What would happen if Freeloader was scum? Someone would pm him and tell him everything he needed to know,makes sense? Hell yes.

Are you speaking as an experience mafia player here? I mean his post was less than hour after PMs went out. Do mafia really get organized that fast? I realize that this is murky water since we're not supposed to use our PM times to figure out roles according to the rules.

Well, Pyo slipped the fact that he’s mafia with the last sentence. Only mafia can PM, and he just said that people can’t use PMs to figure out roles.

Verdict is

MAFIA SCUM GO DIE BY A NOOSE!!!

[*] Senj
+ Show Spoiler +

I am too tired to do his post as I have been working for 7 hours straight analyzing people, but I will say that from his posts and treadmill’s random derailing of senj, Verdict is

TOWNIE

[*]Vain
+ Show Spoiler +

1st post

And who exactly is the most scummy player? Freeloader? If it freeloader really is a scum and people are all jumping on him, wouldn't other scum try to draw attention away from themselves by sacrificing him? In other words by encouraging others to go for him, or at least promoting mob mentality, isn't that a huge red flag as being scum? Maybe I should change my vote back after all...

Are people actually vindictive in mafia? Wouldn't that draw too much attention to themselves? Either way, my apologies, don't kill me off too quick

Also, what counts as a "good post"? Maybe point out an example? From what I've seen looking through old mafias is that "good posts" that are too on target, especially early on end up getting you killed.

Hi all.

I just read trough all of the post and i must say there has been alot of accusations already. especially with Kurumi barging in and calling almost everyone that has posted a noobtown or a rat.

I made a list of what happened the past time so i may as well post it. It may not be complete in the sence of what everyone has said but i think it helps tracing who accused who

+ Show Spoiler +

Ok, Now Kurumi. Bandwagoning is not seen as a mafia only trait. Town joins bandwagons just as easily.

For now Freeloader625 would still be my main target. It would give us at this moment the most information about who will be scum and who not. If he would be town it gives us the info that the people who were defending him are likely town. Why would they defend him if they are mafia? Furthermore it would lay suspicion on the people who accused him in the first place. The chance that they are mafia in that case would be alot bigger. If he turns out scum we can pat ourselfs on the back and continue the game with somewhat of a lead.

As a last thing to point out. If you are town don't be afraid to post a good analysis that is pointing out weak scum play. It will maybe get you killed but in the end it will help you win. And we all play to win rigt

He is asking that the townsfolk put forth some analysis. That should be encouraged regardless, but adding the fact that they may die is a bit fishy.

2nd post

My dumbness meter went over 9000.
Before saying "HURR DURR YOU DID NOTHING" read my posts. I brought evidence why I think they're scum.

On June 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +

What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets.
##vote Treadmill

He was actually saying that some evidence for a lynch was better as a random lynch with no suspicion. now i would like to see your compelling evidence and accusations because frankly i have only seen you throwing out accusations and calling people noobtown.

He is defending treadmill, despite treadmill saying a mafia statement. Scummy post.

3rd post

EDWOP:
I meant,let him play by himself,he does not need Your help.
The evidence is simple: They support bad lynches,they say that we can waste lynches,they want Town to make quick decision which they didn't think about enough

While it is true that they were quick to vote and everyone joined the bandwagon the accusations were very much grounded. The question itself was not very scummy indeed. If i were a scum i would pm it to the host instead of posting it in the thread.
+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

Now he is stating that a townie does have reasons to ask such a question what is indeed true. The interesting part of this post is at the second line. He is now telling us "dont mind me, i'm new to the game" and diverting attention off him. Telling you are new and therefore if are doing things out of the ordinary its just your inexperience is at the best not very good town play.

+ Show Spoiler +

Not a very informative or interesting post besides the fact that i can't figure out in which way he was the first to speak

These posts and as i stated before the amount of info we can get of this lynch is why he is my main target right now. Do mind that it very well can be that it can be that no mafia has even posted yet so this is more a suspicion of me than a well thought out accusation

This post is very ambiguous to me. I do not see any clear directions that he is trying to take.

4th post

Bolded part is very misguided play. Lynching for information, especially on day 1, is very weak. Taking into account the context, lynching freeloader for information is even weaker. The chance that he's mafia is very low, and if he flips green we have no usable information. The underlined question is very very easy to answer. Mafia always defend townies that they think will get mislynched. Why wouldnt they? It gives them free town cred. All we would get by lynching freeloader for information is a likely dead green and a pile of WIFOM.

Well to me a small suspicion to lynch is always better than no suspicion. I'm not saying he is 100% mafia but at the moment i don't see any better alternatives. Do mind that we are also playing with new players so i don't think what you are suggesting is very probable.

He tries to cover up his mistakes by saying that there is no other alternatives for suspects and that is partially true. But his last sentence takes away from his post by adding the noobies as a reason to disregard information.

5th post

Well, posting cute little haikus and being funny can lead to the suspicion that you have some kind of interest in being considered funny and friendly. Also, if you don't agree to that, why will you stop doing that now? It's not like gtrsrs can impose rules on how you have to post.

Well now we know that the mafia has an own thread or something like that. i think we can surely say iGrock was just doing it to stand out/fun/boredom.

Nothing of note was said. We already knew that Mafia has their own threads. He is trying to make it seem like he is noob as well.

I really do not like the actions taken by this guy, and I will not delve deeper because I cannot make a serious case for him now. Verdict is

SUSPICIOUS UNKNOWN

[*] Kurumi
+ Show Spoiler +

KURUMI DOES NOT NEED AN EXPLANATION AND HE CAN DEFEND HIMSELF FINE. HE IS TOWNIE

[*] Jackal58
[SPOILER]

FREELOADER: Aw crap, what is Amazingxkcd doing right now?

[CENTER]Jackal58 seems to be shifting in his seat, and tries to remain calm. He knows that he solidified his position on the Town Council despite mishaps from his henchmen that Amazingxkcd pointed out. He now knows that the case against him could cost Jackal his life, so he stands up and points to Amazingxkcd, shouting “You can’t prove anything on me!”[CENTER]

[CENTER]Amazingxkcd looks around the room, smiling and says “Now, this the biggest case I will attempt to make”, He turns over to Jackal58, and retorts to the shouts “Why are you shouting? We both know that you are the Godfather of the Mafia here, no need to complain about it.” People look around the room dazed and confused, some enraged, others interested in the accusations.[CENTER]

Let’s start by 1st talking about how I came to this realization. It all started when I proposed that Kurumi could have been a gf since he is unafraid of a DT check. Later, A lot of suspicious created a bandwagon on me, but I did not see one person in particular; Jackal. Many people adore and worship this man, and he seems to gloat at that based by the tone in his posts.

Without further ado, I will prove my point.

1st post

Soory I just noticed this is for noobs. /out
Have fun guys

He originally did not want to play in this game. Since this game was for noobies only, when why did he stay in? Did the mods not catch that phrase, or was it because he thought he would get a boring role.

2nd post

Back /IN

What made him want to play this game? Did he realize that he could have fun with the noobs and see how much chaos he can make? I do not know the answers to that, but we shall continue.

3rd post

I hate to be 'that guy' who makes a goodbye post and then comes back a couple weeks later... but dammit I miss this shit.

/in

I would NEVER do that.

He just contradicted himself in the abstract sense. He signed up, then decided to back once he saw the audience was for the noobs, but then in the next post, He signs back in. Even though the time lapse was not a couple of weeks as per se of GCQ, Jackal58 had the same attitude that GCQ had when he signed up.

5th post are just words of encouragement to the mod, who had an SAT test (I had to take it too on same day )

6th post

As a noob, it's somewhat difficult to distinguish "talkative" from "spammy". I just threw out a vote for you since (A) I want/need to get my vote out while I can (B) voting for someone who noone else is going to vote for is tantamount to abstaining (C) as someone who definitely has played mafia before, I assumed that amongst noobs, you'd be adequately adept at defending yourself if suspicion actually turned to you (D) I made a post indicating that my vote for you was joke if anything, but since you seem offended i'll change my vote.

Also, just out of curiosity, since the game wasn't filled only with noobs, how many people here actually have mafia experience?

I have played 1 or 2 games with iGrok and Kurumi. Numerous games with GGQ.
Kurumi's assertion that I am very good is a bit off the mark. I'm actually pretty average at best. Day 1 & 2 I pretty much suck. I'm better towards end game but I usually don't live that long.
Kurumi is insane. I've never seen anybody tunnel the entire player roster at one time before.
iGrok I really don't have an opinion on yet. Seems capable.
GGQ is scum. If I don't do that at least once a game he'd be disappointed.
(That's a joke)
The rest of you I do not know.

I promised Meapak I'd be good this game.

Don't worry about "offending" somebody by voting for them. If they're that easily offended they need to go watch Barney or Teletubbies.

He attempts to downplay his skill level by stating he sucks day 1 and day 2. He is also shocked by Kurumi’s accusations against everyone. He called this tunneling. (remember this). iGrok is somewhat recognizable to him. GCQ and he apparently have a history together. FIRST MAJOR CLUE 2 BULLETS WERE FIRED AT GCQ IN NIGHT 1. Now, let’s get into analysis mode. He jokingly calls GCQ scum. GCQ has not really made any major attacks but Jackal here knows that GCQ can rat him out with good skill if Jackal were to be mafia. If we assume that we knew about GCQ’s skill level, then why does GCQ present a big threat to Jackal? GCQ has not once even talked about Jackal’s analysis yet. Remember, 2 Bullets were fired. If we say that each bullet means 1 kp, then the Mafia really wanted GCQ dead. No one besides Jackal had any idea about who GCQ was, only Jackal knew about GCQ. Jackal was also sure that no medics would go protect GCQ because GCQ himself did not make himself a prominent target. He also insults all of the first-timers here with his last statement that the weak people can go watch preschool programs if they can’t handle pressure.

7th quote

On June 05 2011 23:08 Pyo wrote:Are people actually vindictive in mafia? Wouldn't that draw too much attention to themselves? Either way, my apologies, don't kill me off too quick

Yes. Very much so. And it goes from game to game. As most of you are new I don't expect to see much of it in this game but people do carry grudges and exact revenge in their next game together.
The most likely thing you will see here is some townie with a vig role shooting anther townie that just pissed him off. That happens when a noob has a gun. Just because you don't like somebody doesn't mean they are scum. If you are a vig please don't allow emotion to pull the trigger.

Jackal makes this quote in response to a question that Pyo has regarding emotions in playing mafia. Jackal responds by saying that it would be a noobish thing to use emotions to make important decisions, particularly if one is a vigilante and he wants to exact revenge. Then why was GCQ killed? Jackal calls GCQ scum at the beginning of the game, meaning that GCQ has had some background history with Jackal, and that they have been at opposite teams before. I do not know what happened in the previous games, but if GCQ was quiet, then why would he be dead? This only possible link that can be stablished at this time is that Jackal has revenge to enact on GCQ. No one else in the thread has mentioned any relationships with him nor has he stated any besides his with Jackal. Very scummy things going on in the background.

8th post

I believe this is Kurumi's 4th game. Maybe counting a mini game.
He was lynched day one in the first game I played with him.
He has outed himself as our SK in the second game I've played with him.
Don't assume he's experienced. He's not.

Here, Jackal attempts to put down Kurumi as a potential townie by stating that his extreme tunneling is the result of Kurumi being a stupid player. I do know that Kurumi is playing quite smart, as he knows that the only way to generate leads is to apply pressure. Kurumi applies the pressure on a lot of people. He gets a lot of accusation, but he defended them all with ease. Jackal recognizes this and post background history of kurumi to label kurumi as an idiot.

9th post

On June 06 2011 01:27 DeMorcerf wrote:I do not understand what you mean by this, sorry. Can you clarify whether "insane" is a good thing or a bad thing in this context; and what does "tunnel the roster" mean?

Insane as in crazy. Not good at all.
Tunneling is when you pick one player and call him/her scum for the entire game.

Kurumi has taken it to an entirely new level.

This is a response to a question asked by DeMorcerf. Jackal uses this as a chance to further degrade Kurumi. Kurumi has not tunneled anyone at all, he has changed his stances on many as a result of what happened. Jackal did not know about this and states what has been true based on what happened so far. This is a mistake that Jackal has committed.

10th post

+ Show Spoiler +

Day 1 in a game this size is always a cluster fuck. Things will start to sort themselves out after day is over.

Fishing for blues is a scummy thing to do. So don't do it.

There are a variety of things town can do that have the ability to catch scum.
I am not going to share them though. If I do that scum won't fall for them. PM games are easier to set up traps but they aren't impossible in a non PM game.

Scum have the advantage of information and communication. If you post the link to your scum channel it would give everybody new to the game a chance to see how you operate.

Rookie has not been analyzed by Jackal nor by anyone. Jackal sees this as an advantage and uses this to initially create a fake sense of aura around him. After rookie was lynched, everyone said that Rookie was just a noobie who didn’t know really the strategies in this game. Jackal knew that what Rookie said was a mistake and told the whole world that rookie is probably a scum since he is technically fishing for blues.

11th post

So how common is it for townies to vote for/ lynch day1 people that they just don't like or find annoying? I mean in the face no real evidence for or against anyone is it worth it to eliminate inactive or annoying players?

It happens. Not a lot but it happens. Vigis shooting people they don't like also happens. I hate when it happens. Mafia is first and foremost a numbers game. When town can stay ahead of the curve town wins. When people start pushing for lynches because somebody is a pain in the ass (Guilty) it puts town in a very bad position.

Jackal has yet to make a complete analysis of anyone yet. He has only hinted on Kurumi and set up a scene to take down Rookie. This quote is the same basis as the 7th quote listed above, that emotions can mess people up. He even mentions that he himself is guilty of the things he said. He has been guilty. Perhaps he got mad at someone. Perhaps he got mad at GCQ. See what I am trying to do here? A clear connection has now been established between GCQ and Jackal, let us not forget ever.

12th post

Although I can understand most of your points, don't you think there needs to be a way of keeping track of inactives?
It's a 40 person game and without some type of spreadsheet or list it will be hard to keep track of the lurkers.
I think your taking it too personally. If you don't like the list he made why not contribute to it so we can all keep track of everyone instead of jumping the gun?

Inactives will be mod killed. Not worth tracking. It's lurkers you want to keep a tab on. People that post just the minimum. They usually pop in to proclaim they aren't lurking right after you mention their name. Those are the ones you want to watch for. Also the ones that post excuses in advance. I'm not talking about a guy that says on day 3 "I won't be able to get online until tomorrow night" I'm talking about the ones that come in and say "I have finals this week so I'll not be very active" Dunno if you see the difference or not but if you can't play why did you sign up?

Jackal is now trying to mislead the town into automatically attacking the lurkers rather than being suspicious about the talkative people in the game. Since this is a noob game, the crappy mafias will try to lurk as much as possible. Jackal also knows that there are also a lot of townies that are lurking as well and he is doing the standard mafia tactics of “spreading the chaos”. Throughout this post, he does not make a reference to himself, as he had in his last post. He is also attacking the noobs who did not know what the structures of this game will be like.

13th post is restatement of voting rules. He says this to pressure those who haven’t voted yet to go and vote. The Mods could have done this themselves, but Jackal took it upon himself to look all mighty and important.

14th post is an addition that voting is done only in day time. This is the 1st post that I can’t find evidence for my case, good job Jackal.

15th post

Rest assured guys. Town has the collective IQ of a brick on day 1. Myself included. 'Tis the nature of the beast.

Jackal has still yet to give decent analysis of anyone or of any situations besides the one of Rookie. He hasn’t even commentated on freeloader’s case yet. He goes to say that the Town is playing dumb, and then just sneaks in that he is with the town. If he was a true townie, he would have said “we townies have an IQ of a brick”.

16th post

After reading the posts up to now, I am reasonably confident that freeloader is probably a townie and the ambiguity of early accusers and their motivations means that there's not much to be learned from lynching him, although it might be inevitable at this point. Since his post in his defense haven't really been all that constructive anyway it isn't really a big loss, so I'm not gonna fight it.

The players that I find annoying are by far Haiku boy and Kurumi. So if ever I'm undecided about who to vote for it'll probably be one of them.

I think it is interesting to note all the little 1v1 bickering going on, the most recent example of which is between iGrok and gtrsrs. I think it is reasonable to assume that two mafia wouldn't orchestrate a mini feud this early on, which means that either both are town or only one is town.

So combining my last 2 paragraphs, I think I'm gonna have to change my vote to iGrok.

See my previous post on annoying players.
If you are going to approach this game as an exercise in the elimination of those that annoy you I will be more than happy to arrange for your lynching. We're not here to lynch people that annoy us. We're here to kill scum. Put your ego in a box and get your head in the game please. You'll probably find me to be much more annoying than iGrok. And I don't do haiku.

Jackal attacks Pyo for making a bad vote on emotions. Jackal is right, but he also adds that Pyo has a case of bad ego. Jackal then goes on to mentions that He could be more worse than iGrok. He is already predicting about the future when Pyo finds out that Jackal is the Godfather, but he will not be able to prove it now.

17th post

On June 06 2011 21:57 iGrok wrote:
Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis?

I couldn't analyze Kurumi to save my life. We need a psychiatrist for that.
He is playing identically to the other two games I have had the pleasure of being in with him.
His posts do at times contain substance but it's very hard to pick out from all the background noise.
I think our best bet with him is to watch his voting history. He will eventually call all of us scum before this game is over so his FoS posts are pretty much useless.

Jackal has stated in his previous posts that Kurumi is an idiot and is insane. That qualifies as a psychiatrist analysis to me. Here, he seems to forget about his previous rants against Kurumi and tries to rephrase his stance in a more appealing sense to iGrok, who probably have no suspicions on Jackal at this point. Kurumi stopped calling everyone scum, so Jackal’s predictions are wrong. More people are also starting to listen to Kurumi now that he had calmed down. His voting history can be watched, but it will not matter for Jackal.

18th post

As his post concerning kurumi 's behavior had helped, i am concerned with this statement. iGrok has listed a couple of seasoned players whom he reconizes for their experiences, but here he is already jumping to the conclusion that he had no reason to suspect them, especially jackal whom only made a post spectulating.

It seems to be that iGrok is quite convinced that kurumi is a scum as he already asked for a dt check rather than trust the dts to make the right decisions.

About jackal, i do not know much about him as he has not stated a lot yet, but iGrok is showing us that he is in league with jackal as from the podt above.

As of now, i do not want to label iGrok as scum, and i'd rather wait until later to see what jackal says and how the game flows, but iGrok is still suspicious. If iGrok is convicted as scum, then that puts pressure on jackal to respond.

Day one and two I don't post a lot of analysis. I'm pretty much clueless. I will ask questions. I will point out discrepancies and misinterpretations. Day 1 I like to pick one or two players and tunnel the hell out of them. I'm looking for reactions. Not just from the person I'm tunneling but from everybody else as well. Scum love when I tunnel. I love when they vote for my victim. I usually don't have a lynch worthy case on them until day 3 though. I also promised Meapak I'd behave myself this game so I'm not going to do that because my tunneling style is quite aggressive and abrasive. I've been known to make people rage.
As far as connecting iGrok and myself good luck with that. You might as well connect everybody that has asked another player a question.
Kurumi is an excellent DT check. He's damn near impossible to read.
I would also point out that it is entirely likely that of the 3 or 4 people in this game (myself included)
that do have experience playing here at least 1 of them is on the scum team. That person isn't me but don't take my word for it. If I were scum I'd lie to you in a heartbeat. Just bear that in mind if you guys feel compelled to lynch me or scum kills me at night. When I flip green look really hard at GGQ and iGrok.

Jackal is still trying to convey this sense that he is a crappy player. This is a mistake for him. However, the Biggest mistake he made in this post is the last sentence. GCQ died, flipping as a green. Jackal has yet to prove why GCQ should be looked at, and shows that he is against GCQ for no reason. GCQ died with 2 bullets, so we should be looking very hard at Jackal for the reasons that he is against GCQ without reasons.

19th post

On June 06 2011 23:48 Benjef wrote:
Hm, I'm starting to fall off of this Freeloader band wagon. But hes only had the one post to try and protect himself? And I still don't see the point of him asking the question if he didn't apply to him.

And besides Kurumi why are you protecting him so much?

Because it's terrible lynch based on "he asked question townie would never ask" evidence. His lynch will give no info and there are more scummy people here to lynch.

Who? I'm not calling Freeloader scum I'm asking you who in your opinion is scummier?

Jackal is making a wild post at kurumi when he has shown no history in his posts to talk directly to kurumi. This indicates that Jackal could be smurfing hardcore. Also, he is trying to figure out what is Kurumi really gunning for, and also to make sure it is not Jackal himself.

20th post

smurfing? @_@ I responded to Benjef and got Jackal's response?

I asked you a question based upon your assertion. Problem.

Just remember DT's if you check the GF you will get a townie return.

MASSIVE MISTAKE HERE. How do we know what role the GF will choose to appear as? He can appear as a vigi, a DT, or even as a Medic for all he cares. Jackal says the GF will return as a townie. There is only one way to know this. You are the Godfather. All DT checks on Jackal will return as Townie, and Jackal is showing that he knows about it.

21st post is Him waiting for a response from Kurumi to see what is Kurumi’s objective.

22nd post is Him continue to ask for this. Why is Jackal pressuring for this information? Why did he ask 3-4 times already for the same things? Jackal is now afraid that Kurumi can’t be targeted at all of now.

23rd post. Jackal states Kurumi’s game history. Jackal already stated this. I have still yet to see a complete analysis by Jackal.

24th post

I have one favour to ask of you:
Some people are cluttering the thread, an example would be the exchange between jackal and kurumi, I wrote some unnecessary one liners too.
Lets reduce our posting to helpful deiscussion.
kurumi: Come back with an analysis of gtrsr or tell us more in depth why lafali is scummy in your opinion.

jackal58:Make an analysis of kurumi or let him write a real post before attacking him again.

I think we need to stop cluttering the thread.

How many years would you like me to wait for his answer?

Jackal is starting to slip here, he’s showing signs of agitations. Jackal is now angry with Kurumi, but I now wonder why Kurumi wasn’t killed by Jackal if Jackal did not any signs like this when dealing with GCQ.

25th post

If Freeloader flips scum Kurumi is scum. If Freeloader flips town it means nothing.

Ok, how can Jackal knows that Kurumi is scum if Freeloader is scum? If freeloader is scum, then Kurumi isn’t necessary that of a scum. Jackal then adds the second sentence as a insurance policies to himself. If Freeloader flips townie, then Kurumi is townie and most of the bandwagoners is scummy. Why does Jackal not say that? He lied here, and we know Mafia has to lie to win this game.

26th post is Jackal saying that he seen scum hanged on day 1. This shows his level of experience at the game.

Post 27 is Jackal calling Impervious a scum and post 28 is responding to a question. Impervious has been proven by me to be a townie, so this goes to further prove that Jackal is scum himself.

28th post has shown that Jackal has history of playing with Impervious. We already know about his history with iGrok and GCQ.

29th post is his first attack

You guys want to vote for scum? Vote this guy - rookie44:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9611408

Has played before so he has an idea how it works.
Very subtle in his fishing for blues. Only scum fish for blues.
Wants to know what methods and tactics are used to catch scum.
Wants us to share them with everybody.
Claims it will help derail scum tactics. When it will obviously do the opposite.

Has all but disappeared since this post. I'm sure he'll show up momentarily to tell me how full of shit I am.

That's where my vote is going. I would recommend you all do the same.

People has been throwing around many accusations and they seemed to fly under Jackal’s nose. But I have stated that he set up this accusations of rookie before to make it seem that people didn’t listen to him much. But then, Why did Jackal let everything else pass? That would be considered lurking in every aspect.

30th post

You guys are all voting for noobs making noob posts. Vote for scum not dumb.

Lame attempt by Jackal to derail everyone in the thread and create the bandwagon on rookie to create more chaos.

31st post

On June 07 2011 05:47 TranceStorm wrote:
Show nested quote +

Would you mind doing a post-by-post analysis of rookie44's posts? (There are only 3) Right now I can't really see how subtly he is fishing for blues. After all, we don't know how experienced he really is, so I would like a little more clarification as to your accusation.

We'll start with the post I linked:

On June 06 2011 04:22 rookie44 wrote:
Hey guys,

This is all getting a bit out of hand, we seem to already be getting in each others faces over perceived (and real) sleights. I have only played mafia on battle.net, and this is going to be quite a different game to that.
Only real difference is timing. Tactics are the same

What i believe is the crucial difference is that we have large amounts of time for discussion. This also gives us the time to create a solid plan for using whatever roles we have effectively (it would seem that way).
This is role fishing. He's wanting people to post their roles and tell him how they intend to use them. At the very least he's hoping a noob would post something along the lines of I'm a DT. Who should I check

Maybe some of the more experienced players could expand on what investigative stratagies they have used; their pitfalls, and how we may evade those pitfalls.
This is saying "I am scum. How are you guys going to catch me? It's called a scum slip

Perhaps an added benifit will be that it will be very tricky for a mafia to come up with a generalized stratagy that is grounded in reason, so maybe there will be some suspiciously quiet people. (I assume it will be difficult for a generalized stratagy becasue i can only see the mafia being able to take advantage of a specific stratagy by getting their peolpe in the right places).
This is just bullshit trying to provide a townie reason for asking.

My analysis in red.
This guy is scum.

Now he makes an analysis of rookie. However, the analysis could have been made by anyone and the level of details is very low, yet it is only now that he brings it up. Rookie was a noobie. His posts were noobish. Jackal transformed that into a level of scummish by using catchphrases to attack Rookie. Like I said, the analysis was nowhere as detailed as other detailed analysis were.

32nd post is to make Alderan seem a buddy with rookie when all Alderan noted was that Rookie’s statements are ambigious. Jackal latches more suspicion onto rookie and tries to spread that suspicions around, setting up the town for a bandwagonning lynch.

In all, I have without a doubt, proved my stance on Jackal58, and without a doubt, know that Jackal is now acting as the Godfather for the game.

Verdict

GODFATHER

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 04:10 GMT

#913

Sorry Guys, I will finish your analysis tomorrow, been working on this for the last 8 hours.
[*]Kairo
+ Show Spoiler +

[*] omgCRAZY
+ Show Spoiler +

[*] gtrsrs
+ Show Spoiler +

[*] iGrok
+ Show Spoiler +

[*] tdAdonis
+ Show Spoiler +

[*] aprudds
+ Show Spoiler +

[/list]

[/SPOILER]

Finals Thoughts
I have listed my reasoning for most of the players, but because of the time involved in doing I will finish the last few people, though they know who they are.
I am 100% confident that my analysis is spot on and 100% confident that people who read this will agree with me. Only you mafia scum have anything to fear from reading.
Because of this report, I have decided my vote and I will do a TL:DR version of this report as well soon

##:Jackal58

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 04:12 GMT

#914

Ok, TL wouldnt let me post everything in 1 post.

This is my big analysis i promised to bring towards all who wanted it from me.

Remember townies, you have nothing to fear, only the mafia should be scared of the information inside here.

This took me 9 hours to write, which explains my inactivity during this time.

Gnite! I would finish the analysis in the morning, though i will say that iGrok, you are playing a bit too dumb here. Play smarter.

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 04:33 GMT

#919

On June 09 2011 13:23 grush57 wrote:
Man, you can write a huge analysis and still have the logic to lynch a medic. You sir, are one of a kind.

I will same excuse as jackal did since he was my only suspect until i decided to analysis everyone. Remember, i only purposely left jackal's analysis unspoilered. I analysised everyone except for last 5 or so. I will finish tomorrow.

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 04:40 GMT

#922

On June 09 2011 13:34 Pyo wrote:
Jesus christ!!! I applaud your effort, but it's really misplaced you really expect people to read through all that? I haven't gotten through all of it, but your analysis of jackal (the only part that wasn't properly spoilered) is bad.

You're taking whether or not he was even going to participate as a sign of his role? WTF? And people called me tunneling iGrok bad analysis...

You pick on jackal saying kurumi is insane as an indication of jackal trying to condemn or discredit him. That's wrong, go read kurumi's posting in XXXIX. He IS insane. I think even he'd admit it.

Jackal pointing out rookie would be extremely dangerous for the god father to do. I mean why take that risk when he could have one of the other mafia do it or even wait for a townie to make a false accusation.

Jackal says DT checks will return townie. That is not wrong. blues are townies too.

"Ok, how can Jackal knows that Kurumi is scum if Freeloader is scum? If freeloader is scum, then Kurumi isn’t necessary that of a scum. Jackal then adds the second sentence as a insurance policies to himself. If Freeloader flips townie, then Kurumi is townie and most of the bandwagoners is scummy. Why does Jackal not say that? He lied here, and we know Mafia has to lie to win this game."
- like for real? That is absurd.

Bottom line this huge ass post is just a distraction filled with garbage analysis... and I haven't read the spoilered parts yet.

Oh yeah one thing, my analysis of you has lead me to determine that you are a scum. You just confirmed that By clearly trying to defend jackal here. Everyone is watching you, do not forget

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 04:45 GMT

#923

1 last thing before i treuly go to sleep. This will create a shitstorm. I want all of you to watch people's reaction to my accusations to jackal. If they try to defend him without a doubt, they are trying to protect him. They are mafia scum. Do not forget.

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 17:57 GMT

#961

I am still in school, waiting for the finals to finish in 20 mins. A lot of people have been advocating for iGrok's lynch so i will take that into account. Looking at his current status, he's making memes for map threads and trying to avoid the issues against him. I will further into that when i get home from school.

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 23:23 GMT

#996

I FINISHED THE REST OF THE ANALYSIS!!!!

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 23:23 GMT

#997

[*]Kairo
+ Show Spoiler +

1st Post

FL625s berhaviour is slightly suspicious, but I find the behaviour of cherubael to be more suspicious.

His posts have been reeking of bloodlust, and he have been throwing accusations around like they were candy.

On June 05 2011 14:39 cherubael wrote:
Show nested quote +

So...you asked a question so you could be lynched day one...alright...that makes sense. (note the sarcasm)

Either you give a legitimate, straight reason to ask this sort of question as townie, or you clearly are just trying to save your butt after having messed and shown your role as mafia.

Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him.

-----

But then again, he might just be a bit eager...

Also:

On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote:
With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.

What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.

I also agree on
On June 05 2011 15:36 iGrok wrote:

He has plenty of reasons to be a townie. Don't even think about that kind of McCarthy Bullshit this early in the game.

Anyone voting this early deserves some measure of suspicion.

------ from another post

Regarding discussion:

Freeloader is probably not scum. He is new and likely inexperienced. However, just to be sure, a cop needs to check him tonight. Which reminds me:

This is nowhere near waterproof, but I feel that I have nowhere better to put a vote at this time.

Since it is likely that FL625 is the one that will get lynched today, we will get a flip. If he flips mafia I will conclude that cherubael is most likely non-mafia (a.k.a townie in this game, since it does not have third party roles); but if he flips townie (more likely imo) I will still view cherubael as highly suspicious.

On a sidenote: This game is mind-bending. I am too chicken to suggest that people change their vote from FL to cherubael, since it still is most likely that FL gets lynched, and there is a realistic chance that FL flips mafia. And if I had suggested that, it would paint a huge red cross on my back. And also by writing this, pointing out that I am afraid of death when the ideal mafia mindset is to be fearless of death for the benefit of the team can be considered as scummy. Gaah.

If it is revealed afterwards that all mafia is lurking and that we are just a clueless chicken coop I will have to kick myself in the back.

He is starting to get some vibes from certain opponents, particularly from chaerubal, but is cautious to really do anything because it’s too early to say much. He votes for Freeloader in this case because there is no better leads at the moment.

2nd Post
On June 07 2011 06:43 Treadmill wrote:
with how spread out our votes are the mafia will be able to easily swing a lynch.

QFT, and this is something that we should keep in mind.

I swiched my vote to Rookie44 since I believe that a lynch of FL625 would be a complete lottery, while the accusations of rookie at least has something (if not very much).

Is anyone by accident sitting on an updated list of lurkers/"less than 2 posts with substance" players?

He nows switches votes to rookie, stating that freeloader’s case is now a lottery, when his first post stated that whatever freeloader flips, cherubael is the opposite. He then asks for a lurker list. I believe that he is afraid of being seen as a lurker, or else why would he post it? He has been bandwagoning so far, but he’s too quiet to see where his accusations really lie.

3rd Post

I just realized that my post can accidentaly become flamebait. Would like to edit by doubleposting to just lurkers.

Any attempts to use "less than 2 posts with substance" in a way to start flamewars and huge derails of the thread should be considered heavily scummy behaviour. Please ignore that wording of the post above.

Yes, his post is flamebait. He catches this error of himself and then states that people should just disregard. He has yet to fully contribute to anything, then he is trying to push pressure away from himself.

4th Post

On June 07 2011 08:09 amazingxkcd wrote:
Kairo, you just switch your vote to rookie44. What is your reasoning since the last post you made was trying to draw votes away from freeloader onto cherubael. Are you attempting to bandwagon onto this guy now?

What is the exact definition of bandwagoning btw, is it only when mafia jump on the same person to get a mislynch, or is it bandwagoning if townies try to swich momentums as well?

I was trying to move momentum for a lynch on rookie since ( like I motivated in my post explaining why I changed it) I believed that it would be more benfical for the team than a lynch on FL since

1. FL would be a lottery lynch, and a flip would not make us any wiser.
2. To see how people acted in this situation in a combination with a flip could be rewarding. Muddying the ground and making people move to get footprints and arrows so to speak.

I believe that the list that stood when rookie was leading with 10 votes is more interesting than the final one, since changing votes after the lynch is almost verified to not be on the list of voters is easy.

On June 07 2011 10:52 Varpulis wrote:
Vote Tally:
Rookie44 10
Jackal58
Kurumi
Senj
amazingxkcd
kairo
impervious
vain
heist
jimboo
alderan
tdAdonis

Also want to note that if I was Mafia I would not respond to xkcds post unless pressured more, since he himself is heavily pressured and that post would be likely to slip under the radar.

This post is very confusing. He never explained his reasoning for rookie in any of his previous posts. He states that he was going with the momentum of the bandwagons. He then references the voting list when rookie capped out at 10 people, rather than the final list.

5th Post

Show nested quote +

He said that the mafia already knows who was their 3rd target. In my case against Jackal, I reasoned that GGQ was shot twice, negating the need for a 3rd target. Kairo already assumes that there was a 3rd target and he wants the supposed 3rd guy to step himself up.

6th Post

Show nested quote +

He voted for me without any explanations yet. The only thing that he has against me is that he can link me to him, which I am going to prove wrong. However, he is willing to change his vote based on what evidence can be provided. He is recognizing the fact that I may not be in league with iGrok at all.

In all, He has made a couple of good townie moves with giving some explanations for his actions, and a couple of scummy moves as well, such as bandwagonning, voting on Freeloader and rookie. I am unsure about him since he is conflicting his motives a lot, so the Verdict is

UNKNOWN

[/QUOTE]
[*] omgCRAZY
+ Show Spoiler +

1st Post

With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.

What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.

He notes the bandwagonning efforts started by cheru, Jimboo, and aprudds already onto freeloader.

2nd post is him explaining that freeloader’s responses are a bit vague, and 3rd post is him saying that he made a 2nd post.

4th post

Show nested quote +

Still it was quite early into the game, so the issues of lurking isn’t necessary right now to be brought up. He points interest in the people that are lurking, rather than the aggressive people.

5th post his him stating that he made more than 1 post

6th post

Show nested quote +

He is afraid on the possibilities of all mafia just lurking. From a sharp standpoint, that’s a good thing since it is easier to catch mafia if they are lurking rather than. Then he states that he agrees with Kairo on cherubael.

7th post

Show nested quote +

Here, he is now responding to the attacks that gtrsrs is making on iGrok and that gtrsrs is using emotions here to make his decisions.

8th post

Show nested quote +

OMGCRAZY is now stating that gtrsrs is looking scummish after looking at iGrok’s analysis and now proclaims that iGrok is now pro-town. This is important when I make my analysis on iGrok later.

9th post

Show nested quote +

He is noticing that treadmill is still hiting on freeloader and wants treadmill to contribute.

10th post is him saying that he will not be available so he is going to vote right away for gtrsrs.

11th post

Show nested quote +

He notes suspicions on the voting and wants to side with Impervious’s plan, which was to pressure me. I believe that Impervious moved away from that, so we will see what he decides to do.

12th post

Show nested quote +

He now wants to analysis iGrok to discover his position on iGrok’s stance

13th post

Show nested quote +

Here, he goes to offer a short explanation on me and iGrok, then states that iGrok is a stronger case, then votes for him.

14th post

Show nested quote +

He apparently read my post and agreed with my reasoning on jackal. He wants to keep his vote on iGrok since he wants to see more discussion until the end of the day.

In the beginning, he seemed a bit suspicious based on his explanations and reasoning, but as the game continued, he started to show more analysis and more pro-town moves. Verdict is

TOWNIE

Since his accusations against iGrok started long before the main case developed against him.

[*] gtrsrs
+ Show Spoiler +

1st Post

hi everyone i'm back
my thoughts so far:
- jesus christ, 7 pages of nothing
- freeloader asked an innocuous question that was stupid but not scummy IMO

in fact he made it quite clear the reasons he was asking:
On June 05 2011 12:44 freeloader625 wrote:
Omg I'm so excited for this. I read all the rules twice and just want to ask to anyone willing to answer (before the game starts) since these were not answered in the thread rules:

1) Since PMs are not allowed, how would mafia communicate with each other?
2) Once someone dies whether it be by votes or mafia hit, will their roles be revealed?

and then everyone ignored the fact that he asked another innocuous question too. clinging to false evidence ITT?

- unfortunately it looks like a slip so i can see him getting lynched today
- if he flips town, we'll need to re-evaluate the people who pushed for his lynch
- dude who keeps posting haikus, please stop, that's thread derailment and very scummy. i can't even read your posts. i do not think there are any posting restrictions so only post what you HAVE to
- that being said, i'm going to vote for you because i don't want to jump on the freeloader bandwagon (nor do i want to try and counterbandwagon onto aprudds for calling him out)

- voting in this thread is not scummy, whoever said that. voting in this thread helps us keep track of bandwagons and reasoning behind votes. please vote in this thread when you vote in the voting thread.

- there are too many posts in this thread. you probably don't have anything to say at this point. don't post for posting's sake. when you do post, please make long, well-thought-out posts. short posts derail the thread. i think one of the pages had like 10 one-line posts and that's not acceptable. it allows mafia to "blend in" with the town by posting similarly.

- posts that have words but don't say anything are scummy

- kurumi is naturally an annoying, accusatory spammer, don't read into it too much (also no offense to kurumi)

- from what i've seen of his play in other games, jackal is a strong player. don't let his abrasive personality cloud your mind from his usually very-informative, rational posts. at the same time, please use your own judgment when reading his posts and decide for yourself if you come to the same conclusions. if he is mafia he will use his "upstandingness" to sheep us around.

##vote: iGrok

He is the first guy to attack iGrok and vote for him. His only reasoning against iGrok is haikus and that iGrok hasn’t posted much yet, however he is pointing that iGrok isn’t helping out much yet.

2nd Post is him defending his vote against iGrok with quotes from his 1st post.

3rd post is him still staying that iGrok is in his FOS. Notice the behavior exhibited by gtrsrs. He is so adamant on iGrok that he is unwilling to talk about anything else yet. Is this an example of tunneling, I could say yes.

4th and 5th post is him continuing to defend his position on iGrok and stating that kurumi is a townie. Still accusing iGrok.

6th post

Show nested quote +

Here, he cements his position on iGrok. The rest of his posts is him trying to attack iGrok. This can be explained as hating. Verdict

IF IGROK FLIPS RED, THEN GTRSRS IS TO BE CONFIRMED A TOWNIE. IF IGROK FLIPS GREEN, THEN GTRSRS IS CONFIRMED TO BE RED.

Gtrsrs is playing a dangerous game here, he is gambling his life on the fact that he is 100% sure that iGrok is mafia scum.

[*] iGrok
+ Show Spoiler +

Here we go, the Analysis on iGrok and my Positon of him.

Let’s delve into his game plan

1st post
[QUOTE] In the shadows lies
A peculiar type of Man
Kuze is my name.

In this game, I will start all of my posts with haikus. Enjoy ^^

On June 05 2011 14:39 cherubael wrote:
Show nested quote +

So...you asked a question so you could be lynched day one...alright...that makes sense. (note the sarcasm)

Either you give a legitimate, straight reason to ask this sort of question as townie, or you clearly are just trying to save your butt after having messed and shown your role as mafia.

Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him.

He has plenty of reasons to be a townie. Don't even think about that kind of McCarthy Bullshit this early in the game.

Anyone voting this early deserves some measure of suspicion.

Also, I am schwasted, so this may not make a lot of sense. (White Russians are the best!)

But.

If you are new to mafia, welcome. A quick word of advice: Think before you act. Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily. a 40 man game is much more about reasoning than putting pressure on someone. And the only reason you would vote this early is to put pressure on someone.

Things to note about this game:

Detectives instead of watchers: This gives us hard checks (with a few exceptions) on who is scum/town. Town needs to know this information, and we need to keep it out of the hands of mafia. For new players, this is where crumbing comes in. Crumbing is leaving clues about what you want to say. The best crumbs will be deciphered by us and not by scum. However, crumbs can be used a different way, in that you leave crumbs no one can decipher and then reveal multiple crumbs later. This is good if you are new because often times no one can understand your crumbs anyways since you don't have experience.

Vigilantes: Need to not use your shots immediately. You are MUCH more likely to hit a civilian than scum at first, and also more likely to caus confusion.

Those are the two most important roles this game.

Regarding discussion:

Freeloader is probably not scum. He is new and likely inexperienced. However, just to be sure, a cop needs to check him tonight. Which reminds me:

If a miller is roleblocked, what does he return to investiagtion?

Anyways, many good ideas floating around for a newbie game Keep up the good work

He introduces himself into the games. He makes a statement about Russians (Slovaks rape Russians any day) and gives a good word of advice. “Think before you act”. This is good way to start out the game as this is the newbie game. However, he is now trying to give advice to the DTs and the Vigis, telling them things that the mafia also knows.” Crumbling”; I am quite sure the mafias are going to look for that and Vigis should always be cautious regardless, no matter. He states that Freeloader is just a scrub townie. He then states that there are a lot of good ideas floating around when the biggest thing going was the freeloader debacble.

2nd post
[QUOTE] cherubel wrote:
Also, what reason do you have to defend him?

I didn't even see this.

If you use this argument again I will be sure you die. If Townies don't defend other townies from bullshit attacks, this game will end quite rapidly, and not in our favor.[/QUOTE]

iGrok now states that cherubel is asking for a reason is stating that cherubel will die for this. He then wants the town to not defend other townies when he stated in his first post that freeloader was probably a townie, and gave his reasons for that. Townies should defend other townies, and mafia should defend other mafias. If no one defended anybody, the Kurumi practically won the game for himself then.

3rd post is a haiku post.

4th post also a failed haiku post.

5th post is another haiku and an example of how to ask a mod question.

6th post is him stating that there is no haiku and sees that he made a mistake.

7th post
[QUOTE] une 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +

What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets.
##vote Treadmill

Two threads, Two places
Vote in one, not the other
Or you may mislead.

Just fyi, voting in the Thread and not in the voting thread is considered scummy at higher levels of play. I will of course excuse you since you are new, but I'm trying to help you out here - if you're going to vote, then vote, but make sure you know what you're doing. Make sure you read my post.

Also, again with the bullshit McCarthyism - This is VERY anti-town, and if you're a menace to town, promoting anti-town play, its in our best interest to remove you from the game if we have no strong mafia targets.

tl;dr: CTFO[/QUOTE]

He is now attacking kurumi for McCarthyism. Please take care to note that this is a mafia game, not a cold war, so if leads can be generated from McCarthyism, it is more beneficial for the town here. He states that kurumi is acting like a mafia rather than a townie.

Post 8 and 9 is more asking of kurumi to chill out and an EBWOP

10th post
[QUOTE] On June 05 2011 18:25 Kurumi wrote:
EDWOP:
I write "You" with capital Y because I feel like and it is Polish thing.
I call Scum/people I am suspicious of Rats. Get over it.

No haiku for this,
The point is too short for one.
Just a simple note

Do shit like this, you're going to piss people off. Pissing people off is a good way to die. Dying does not help your team at all (at least in this game). You know this, you've played several games. Don't fuck over the newbies because you want to be obnoxious.

As far as your "slips" go:

Lafali, from what I can tell, is a newbie who bandwagonned, read my post warning against bandwagons, and unvoted.

Treadmill: He said we should wait, and every point of evidence is important no matter how small. Great reason to vote him.

Point grew after I wrote the haiku[/QUOTE]

Number one, iGrok never talked about bandwagonning, so lafali couldn’t have read anything on not bandwagonning. Number two, treadmill made a townie statement by stating that everyone is acting too fast and every piece of evidence is important. Ummm, why is that a mafia thing? Mafia wants to create chaos and freeloader is a great example of that. So why is Treadmill being targeted?

11th post is iGrok telling drazerk that he voted without posting and says that people were warned against it. I did not see anything like that in the rules, only as a suggestion to do since only the worst mafia would vote like that. iGrok already labeled drazerk with red ink to place a lot of suspicions on him.

12 post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 04:49 GGQ wrote:
Show nested quote +

You didn't actually mention iGrok in your post, but you voted for him. More explaining please?

My Final Haiku:
I guess fun is not allowed.
Srs Bsns.

You, sir, have no sense of fun.

So let me get this straight - your reason for voting me is "Thread Derailment" and not wanting to vote for treadmill?

You do realize you could just -wait- to vote, right?

Honestly, those are some of the worst reasons to vote that I can think of. Particularly since your post is, aside from your "evidence" against me, just a regurgitation of other posts. Post some analysis, and good analysis not just bullshit like the above post.

You may be thinking, "Why haven't you (iGrok) posted strong analysis yet then?" And knowng you, and probably kurumi as well, there probably a "Scum!" (or "Rat!") thrown in there. The reason is that last night there was nothing to analyze yet, but I saw that the town was disintegrating really fast and I had to step up to try to stop that from happening. May analysis will come after 24 hours of game time, no sooner or later. I will focus on one person, selected without bias, and attempt to ascertain through their posts what their alignment is. Anyone who remembers me from Experiment Mafia 2, I was Pink2 - You remember my analysis of Blue, and how strong that was.

In closing, BE PATIENT. Talk, yes, Discuss, yes. Accuse, especially with as little actual substance has happened so far, no.[/QUOTE]

Ok, iGrok never says anything about the accusations against him, but says that people can wait to vote. Also, iGrok says that his analysis will come later and he will pick a person on objective reasons. He then links probably his last good analysis of some random old game. At least link that game so we can see what you said. He then ends with a closing statement of “be patient”. Coming from a townie stand-point, that makes sense, but really there was no need to say so. The Town also never was disintergrating at all, it was only be attacked by mafia.

13rd post is his EBWOP stating that his 12th post was directed at gtrsrs. Also, he labeled GGQ as a townie with the green font. HOW THE FUCK DID HE KNOW THAT? WE DIDN’T EVEN KNOW MUCH ABOUT GGQ AND GGQ ALSO STARTED TO ACCUSE iGROK A BIT EARILER IN THE THREAD. O.o?

Just based on this so far, you can easily say that iGrok is a mafia scum since he knew who GGQ was without proving that stance.

14th post is him telling blackone to read the haikus.

15th post
[QUOTE] Show nested quote +

Well now we know that the mafia has an own thread or something like that. i think we can surely say iGrock was just doing it to stand out/fun/boredom.

Mafia ALWAYS has their own quicktopic. Thats how things run. The only exception was Sleeper Cell Mafia, which I hosted ^^

But thanks for understanding me. I'd like to have fun this game. Its not that I'm not taking things seriously![/QUOTE]

I do not care about sleeper cell mafia, why even say it? I liked your haikus too, oh well.

16th post is him taking out benj with asking for a mod check on editing

17th post is iGrok telling alderan to give timestamps on quotes. Note that Alderan did a short analysis of me, but iGrok never responded to what he said nor gave his stance on me yet from this analysis.

18th post is iGrok writing rules about self-modding in the games

19th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 12:13 CjrNinja wrote:
Gl hf everyone.

Day 1 thoughts:

Freeloader625 innocently asks a silly question and gets a lot of heat on him because of it. I doubt he is scum, experienced players have already said that mods make it clear to mafia that they can communicate outside the thread. I’d say that his posts shows him to be more town orientated because of it. so all those voting for Freeloader please unvote him immediately so as to avoid a mislynch. Subsequent posts are ambiguous one-liners, not really much to go on, looks silly but not screaming scum to me.

Speaking of which, the people who have voted for freeloader625:

Cherubael- Not sure about this guy. Pushed for the freeloader vote, which raised my suspicions of until I saw that he pointed out 35spike1s post and further lack of contribution (see below).
Show nested quote +

Please elaborate on the last part for me.

Jimbooo- vote retracted. Quick to jump the gun for a lynch, but realizes his mistake and unvotes quickly. Probably too overeager, no scummy posts.

Lafali- vote retracted.
Show nested quote +

WTF is this shit? Hopping on the voting bandwagon is exactly what scum does in order to lynch townies. Good job, way to do the scum’s work for them. Based on this post alone it makes you either scum, or a very clueless townie. You’re my prime suspect atm but I’ll withhold voting for you until after I see how you defend yourself.

Treadmill, Benjef, Drazerk, grush57. Don’t really have much of a read on these guys. Treadmill pretty hasty in his posts like Jimbooo, but went about it in a more scummy way. Can you all please unvote Freeloader for now and wait until some of the more legitimate candidates for your vote continue posting?

Others:
35spike1
Show nested quote +

All the one liners regarding the freeloader post aren’t helping town, it gives the opportunity for scum to fly under the radar and post rubbish like this and getting away with it unchecked. Keeping my eye on 35spike1. Time for a contribution please.

Kumuri- Pretty experienced. Very forward with his opinion and is looking at the right people. Definitely the most day1 pro-town person we have at the moment.

Amazingxkcd- Stop posting obvious, non contributing shit. “It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it.” That post has no value whatsoever except as a front for you to appear active.
Also, your copy+paste post on the guides to mafia are equally useless. Analysis on the game please, if other people haven’t already read the 4th post on this thread, then it’s their loss.

TheAwesomeAll- He made a list, and he’s checking it twice. No big deal, a good way to keep track of people who haven’t contributed much, if anything. Don’t know why people are getting so riled up about it though monsterDrakar?

Conclusion/tl;dr: Everyone stop voting forFreeloader and keep your eyes on what Lafali, Cherubael, 35spike1 and Amazingxkcd have to say.

/rant

Whats your opinion of me? Curious[/QUOTE]

This is probably iGrok’s first major slip-up. He has yet to give any meaning analysis besides the one on kurumi, and now he is asking for what people think of him. This is as bad as saying “Hey, who are the blues here? Let’s think about what to do”. If iGrok really was a townie, then he shouldn’t worry since he knows that he is innocent. If iGrok was mafia, then clearly he is a bit worried about his position in the game. Gtrsrs is being quite accurate on why iGrok seems fishy. IGrok still has yet to respond to the analysis that other people give.

20th post is him telling everyone to wait for his analysis of kurumi.

21st post is him stating that a certain player isn’t playing.

22nd post is him giving his massive post on kurumi. Also, I play as GlaDOS in roleplaying games, particularly mafia games when you pick your name, and he stole my identity.

23rd post is iGrok responding to gtrsrs and then referencing another the same mafia game. Well, if town won on day 3, maybe I can win for the town on day 2? 0.o?

24th and 25th post is random stuff, disregard.

26th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote:
here is my scum hunt
you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing
you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against
the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them

even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town

everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next

Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is.

But as a refutation,

I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose.
I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail.
Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above.

If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players.

On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote:
in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.

I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play.[/QUOTE]

His first point is that he tried to hide the PRs. If he really wanted to hide the PRs, then he should had just simply said “do not reveal yourself at all until you feel safe to do so”. His next point is guessing the PR count. No one knows the PR count in this game. Then he attempts to put gtrsrs by stating that he has done a lot more for the town. When we looked at the last 26 posts made by iGrok, only one actually had any good meaning, which was the analysis of Kurumi. He is lying about his own contributions. There is no need to do so. Just admit that he didn’t do much. Also, he lied about holding the town together when in reality it was rookie who got the town together (ask me later why).

27th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 16:20 CjrNinja wrote:
@ iGrok
I disagree with your player analysis. I think Kumuri is taking a very pro-town initiative by putting a lot of pressure on inexperienced players. It's a good opportunity to gauge reactions and hopefully pick up on a scum slip if the accused can't handle the pressure ^^
Also, the less attention towards blue roles, the better... last thing town needs is an inexperienced playing letting slip his blue role on day1.

Disagreement is fine! I'm a huge fan of actual discussion about things - but someone had to start the analysis, and the little quotes we were getting before are much more annoying to deal with. As I said, I'm not completely certain on Kurumi, but if I had to choose I'd say scum. Thats why I asked for a DT check.

Regarding my 'focus on blue roles', which I take you and gtr to mean my Setup Analysis, what I love most about Mafia is the mechanics, and so I'm going to try to work those out as best I can. Since neither mafia nor town knew (or knows now) how many of each role there are, I haven't really done anything. However, with rough, probable numbers, we can work out the best way to assign our blue powers. Blues are (arguably) the most important part of a mafia game - we should try to line up some good actions instead of just hoping for the best.[/QUOTE]

Big mistake here. If iGrok was a fan of discussion, then why is it that the only people that he talked about was kurumi and gtrsrs. Against kurumi, he just tries to state that kurumi is acting like McCarthy (DO your history research, this guy is actually an interesting case). Against gtrsrs, his defence had either been lies about his posts or about gtrsrs not having enough evidence.

28th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +

note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell. but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. notice how he will now try to shift the attention of the town elsewhere - probably by using a 9000-character post again on an "analysis" of someone else

don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town

Nice OMGUS, bro. You have a habit of responding only to one thing in a post. You should probably change that, not just for this game but for all of them.

Anyways, the last thing I'm going to say regarding this (unless you keep up the smear campaign [or answer my points]) is that I said Kurumi is trying to use experience he doesn't have to get into power by associating himself with those who do. Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players. Whomever among them we can confirm/be reasonably certain is town should be looked up to.

And just FTR, it wasn't 9,000 characters. It was 26,088 characters. Lets see you put that kind of effort into a post, eh?[/QUOTE]

230,000 characters and counting. Care to put that kind of effort into a post, eh? Ok, HE LABELS VAIN AS TOWNIE, GGQ AS TOWNIE, AND JACKAL AS TOWNIE. GGQ DIED A TOWNIE. He never talked anything about GGQ nor Jackal nor Vain. That is quite a suspicion. Again, HOW DOES HE KNOW WHO GGQ AND JACKAL AND VAIN ARE?? HE NEVER TALKED ABOUT HIS STANCES ON THEM?!!?

29th post is him saying that if he is 100% correct, he will never play with Meapak again. Well, Jackal is confirmed scum, and GGQ is confirmed townie, so looks like Meapak is going to play with him again.

30th post
[QUOTE] EBWOP:
The reason is because those are by far the three strongest players in this game, and it simply wouldn't be fair. Hosts are supposed to randomize teams, but they have some responsibility to ensure a fair and balanced game.[/QUOTE]

What previous history did he have with those 3? How does he know that Meapak could have balanced them like that?

31st post is him laughing at the only small analysis of him. I am sure that if gtrsrs knew about day 1 results, then he could have made a more convincing post.

32nd post is iGrok talking about Pyo’s decision.

I do not understand this. GTRSRS has been hating on iGrok for practically the entire game and iGrok just says “gtrsrs is not scum”. HUH? 0.o? 0.o? 0.o?

33rd post is iGrok defending himself against Pyo. The only defense he posted revolves around having fun and “keeping the town together”. I assure you that he has lied about this already.

34th post is telling the amount of hours left in the game.

35th post
[QUOTE] Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis?[/QUOTE]

I have brought forth a major post about this and I will TL:DR this here: iGrok just met jackal? iGrok just trust jackal? 0.o?

36th post is iGrok saying that he shouldn’t have analyzed Kurumi. And he plays Protoss…. (Fucking Reavers and Colussi…)

37th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 22:52 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +

As his post concerning kurumi 's behavior had helped, i am concerned with this statement. iGrok has listed a couple of seasoned players whom he reconizes for their experiences, but here he is already jumping to the conclusion that he had no reason to suspect them, especially jackal whom only made a post spectulating.

It seems to be that iGrok is quite convinced that kurumi is a scum as he already asked for a dt check rather than trust the dts to make the right decisions.

About jackal, i do not know much about him as he has not stated a lot yet, but iGrok is showing us that he is in league with jackal as from the podt above.

As of now, i do not want to label iGrok as scum, and i'd rather wait until later to see what jackal says and how the game flows, but iGrok is still suspicious. If iGrok is convicted as scum, then that puts pressure on jackal to respond.

If I was convinced Kurumi was scum, I'd be pushing for his lynch - hard.

Do I know that Jackal is town? No. I know he's good. Therefore I want a lot of action from him, for two reasons: If Jackal is Town, a lot of action from him means a lot of pro-town things happen. If he is scum, a lot of action occurs that I can make a read from.[/QUOTE]

He did a 27,00 character post on analysis on Kurumi and isn’t convinced that kururmi is mafia? Why waste 27,000 characters then? Then he defends Jackal. Remember this, Jackal and iGrok inherently trust each other throughout this game.

38th post is iGrok asking Xedat to add more information to the list

39th post is iGrok saying that editing is the cardinal sin.

40th post is saying that 12 hours until end of day 1

41st post.
[QUOTE] Goddamnit Kurumi I don't know if you're town or scum. PICK A SIDE DAMNIT[/QUOTE]

AS OF NOW, THIS IS THE ONLY POST TO PROTECT IGROK FROM BEING LABELED AS MAFIA. How? He’s acting like he doesn’t know. But I am afraid that this is too weak to protect him.

42nd post, disregard since Vain made a typo error

43rd post is iGrok having no clue about who to lynch. About this time, people started to form cases against me and against you. Why don’t you lynch me? I am the biggest target right now.

44th post is Him making a list of people. Look really hard at the people he is trying to protect from lynches. Then he votes Drazerk for voting without posting. Not exactly the best course of action. If he is bandwagonning, and not talking then he probably have no important role in this game, despite looking very scummy.

45th post
[QUOTE] On June 07 2011 03:11 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +

That's pretty big list. Care to explain why those people shouldn't be lynched?

Me: I'm Town.
Jackal, Vain, GGQ: I want to know who among you is also town.
Kurumi: I don't know what to think about him, but I want to know more. As the game progresses he's gotten better imo, so I'm waiting to see how he turns out.
Treadmill, 35spike1, CrJNinja, Xedat, aprudds: Hes not afraid to say what he thinks, and did some decent analysis.[/QUOTE]

Um, you are not town, bye bye.
Jackal is not town, GGQ got killed, Vain I wrote his analysis already.
Kurumi, you’re town,
The others; I either didn’t know yet or they are suspicious to me.

This could be seen as a mistake since iGrok wanted to keep GGQ safe and Jackal safe. Essentially, he is trying to keep all of the experienced players alive rather than his side alive.

46th post is iGrok wanting a DT check on Kurumi.

47th post iGrok is now advocating gtrsrs for wanting to lynch iGrok without any proof yet besides saying that gtrsrs is hating on him.

48th post iGrok would be shocked if the GF would be lynched on day 1. That technically cannot happen. Very scummy post here.

49th post is mod help request

50th post

[QUOTE] Alright guys, I'm awake. Reading through now....

On June 07 2011 09:24 GGQ wrote:

Thoughts on what I've read so far: iGrok's post on setup was not blue-fishing at all (if he was doing that for the benefit of his mafia friends, he would post it in mafia quicktopic, not in thread), but it also was kind of useless (sorry bro, I know you like this kind of stuff, but there was no need to post it). You went through a lot of trouble and wild conjecture just to arrive at the conclusion that we probably have a pretty normal setup (2dts, 2-3medics, 2-4vigs, 2-4 vets). You could have just stated that that's a normal setup for the roles that were listed. I want to mention, though, that I've played in games on this forum where the only blue roles were vigilantes, and where the only blue roles were veterans. Be ready for anything and DONT count on blue roles to win the game for you. Greens win games far more often than blues do.

The reason I posted the big analysis even though it came to a normal setup was so that many of the new people, who don't know what a traditional setup is, would have a rough idea.

That being said, I find this rookie bandwagon very interesting. I don't think he's scum, just... bad with his words.

Drazert is still my vote.[/QUOTE]

iGrok posted an analysis on kurumi because he wanted to show an example? 0.o? I thought he wanted to give his stance on Kurumi. He then accurately predicts that Rookie just sucks at this game.

51st post is EBWOP and 52nd post is him asking for clarification on Impervious’s plan

52nd post is timestamp till 1st lynch.

53rd post is wordplay with CjrNinja’s name

AFTER THE DAY 1 LYNCHES, OTHER PEOPLE START TO ANALYIZE iGROK’s MOVE FROM THAT PERIOD, SO REFER TO THEM.

IN ALL, HE HAS REALLY ONLY MADE A COUPLE OF GOOD IN-DEPTH POSTS, BUT HE HAS YET TO MAKE A REALLY GOOD PRO-TOWN MOVE. HIS ONLY GOOD ANALYSIS IS ON KURUMI, AND HE HASN’T BEEN PLAYING IN THE TOWN’S FAVOR AT ALL.

VERDICT IS

MAFIA

ISCLAIMER: THERE IS A SUPER SMALL CHANCE iGROK IS TOWNIE. IF HE FLIPS GREEN, NO ONE SHOULD BLAME EACH OTHER SINCE HE PLAYED LIKE A GODFATHER HERE*

[*] tdAdonis
+ Show Spoiler +

Hasn’t made a post yet… Can we Modkill him please?

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 23:24 GMT

#998

TL;DR

Hey, you guys were right, iGrok is mafia!

However, since i am more convinced of jackal, i am willing to switch my vote to iGrok if you guys also want to all vote for him since i really want to lynch both Jackal and iGrok

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 23:26 GMT

#999

Shit... stupid out of place quote bracket made iGrok's section unreadable. Sorry about that and if you guys want, i will repost that analysis with the correct formatting.

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 23:36 GMT

#1002

OK, THIS IS A REPOST OF MY ANALYSIS OF iGROK. I APPARENTLY DELETED THE SPOILER TAG HERE T_T. ANYWAY, HERE YOU GO.
+ Show Spoiler +

Here we go, the Analysis on iGrok and my Positon of him.

Let’s delve into his game plan

1st post

In the shadows lies
A peculiar type of Man
Kuze is my name.

In this game, I will start all of my posts with haikus. Enjoy ^^

On June 05 2011 14:39 cherubael wrote:
Show nested quote +

So...you asked a question so you could be lynched day one...alright...that makes sense. (note the sarcasm)

Either you give a legitimate, straight reason to ask this sort of question as townie, or you clearly are just trying to save your butt after having messed and shown your role as mafia.

Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him.

He has plenty of reasons to be a townie. Don't even think about that kind of McCarthy Bullshit this early in the game.

Anyone voting this early deserves some measure of suspicion.

Also, I am schwasted, so this may not make a lot of sense. (White Russians are the best!)

But.

If you are new to mafia, welcome. A quick word of advice: Think before you act. Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily. a 40 man game is much more about reasoning than putting pressure on someone. And the only reason you would vote this early is to put pressure on someone.

Things to note about this game:

Detectives instead of watchers: This gives us hard checks (with a few exceptions) on who is scum/town. Town needs to know this information, and we need to keep it out of the hands of mafia. For new players, this is where crumbing comes in. Crumbing is leaving clues about what you want to say. The best crumbs will be deciphered by us and not by scum. However, crumbs can be used a different way, in that you leave crumbs no one can decipher and then reveal multiple crumbs later. This is good if you are new because often times no one can understand your crumbs anyways since you don't have experience.

Vigilantes: Need to not use your shots immediately. You are MUCH more likely to hit a civilian than scum at first, and also more likely to caus confusion.

Those are the two most important roles this game.

Regarding discussion:

Freeloader is probably not scum. He is new and likely inexperienced. However, just to be sure, a cop needs to check him tonight. Which reminds me:

If a miller is roleblocked, what does he return to investiagtion?

Anyways, many good ideas floating around for a newbie game Keep up the good work

He introduces himself into the games. He makes a statement about Russians (Slovaks rape Russians any day) and gives a good word of advice. “Think before you act”. This is good way to start out the game as this is the newbie game. However, he is now trying to give advice to the DTs and the Vigis, telling them things that the mafia also knows.” Crumbling”; I am quite sure the mafias are going to look for that and Vigis should always be cautious regardless, no matter. He states that Freeloader is just a scrub townie. He then states that there are a lot of good ideas floating around when the biggest thing going was the freeloader debacble.

2nd post

cherubel wrote:
Also, what reason do you have to defend him?

I didn't even see this.

If you use this argument again I will be sure you die. If Townies don't defend other townies from bullshit attacks, this game will end quite rapidly, and not in our favor.

iGrok now states that cherubel is asking for a reason is stating that cherubel will die for this. He then wants the town to not defend other townies when he stated in his first post that freeloader was probably a townie, and gave his reasons for that. Townies should defend other townies, and mafia should defend other mafias. If no one defended anybody, the Kurumi practically won the game for himself then.

3rd post is a haiku post.

4th post also a failed haiku post.

5th post is another haiku and an example of how to ask a mod question.

6th post is him stating that there is no haiku and sees that he made a mistake.

7th post

une 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +

What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets.
##vote Treadmill

Two threads, Two places
Vote in one, not the other
Or you may mislead.

Just fyi, voting in the Thread and not in the voting thread is considered scummy at higher levels of play. I will of course excuse you since you are new, but I'm trying to help you out here - if you're going to vote, then vote, but make sure you know what you're doing. Make sure you read my post.

Also, again with the bullshit McCarthyism - This is VERY anti-town, and if you're a menace to town, promoting anti-town play, its in our best interest to remove you from the game if we have no strong mafia targets.

tl;dr: CTFO

He is now attacking kurumi for McCarthyism. Please take care to note that this is a mafia game, not a cold war, so if leads can be generated from McCarthyism, it is more beneficial for the town here. He states that kurumi is acting like a mafia rather than a townie.

Post 8 and 9 is more asking of kurumi to chill out and an EBWOP

10th post

On June 05 2011 18:25 Kurumi wrote:
EDWOP:
I write "You" with capital Y because I feel like and it is Polish thing.
I call Scum/people I am suspicious of Rats. Get over it.

No haiku for this,
The point is too short for one.
Just a simple note

Do shit like this, you're going to piss people off. Pissing people off is a good way to die. Dying does not help your team at all (at least in this game). You know this, you've played several games. Don't fuck over the newbies because you want to be obnoxious.

As far as your "slips" go:

Lafali, from what I can tell, is a newbie who bandwagonned, read my post warning against bandwagons, and unvoted.

Treadmill: He said we should wait, and every point of evidence is important no matter how small. Great reason to vote him.

Point grew after I wrote the haiku

Number one, iGrok never talked about bandwagonning, so lafali couldn’t have read anything on not bandwagonning. Number two, treadmill made a townie statement by stating that everyone is acting too fast and every piece of evidence is important. Ummm, why is that a mafia thing? Mafia wants to create chaos and freeloader is a great example of that. So why is Treadmill being targeted?

11th post is iGrok telling drazerk that he voted without posting and says that people were warned against it. I did not see anything like that in the rules, only as a suggestion to do since only the worst mafia would vote like that. iGrok already labeled drazerk with red ink to place a lot of suspicions on him.

12 post

On June 06 2011 04:49 GGQ wrote:
Show nested quote +

You didn't actually mention iGrok in your post, but you voted for him. More explaining please?

My Final Haiku:
I guess fun is not allowed.
Srs Bsns.

You, sir, have no sense of fun.

So let me get this straight - your reason for voting me is "Thread Derailment" and not wanting to vote for treadmill?

You do realize you could just -wait- to vote, right?

Honestly, those are some of the worst reasons to vote that I can think of. Particularly since your post is, aside from your "evidence" against me, just a regurgitation of other posts. Post some analysis, and good analysis not just bullshit like the above post.

You may be thinking, "Why haven't you (iGrok) posted strong analysis yet then?" And knowng you, and probably kurumi as well, there probably a "Scum!" (or "Rat!") thrown in there. The reason is that last night there was nothing to analyze yet, but I saw that the town was disintegrating really fast and I had to step up to try to stop that from happening. May analysis will come after 24 hours of game time, no sooner or later. I will focus on one person, selected without bias, and attempt to ascertain through their posts what their alignment is. Anyone who remembers me from Experiment Mafia 2, I was Pink2 - You remember my analysis of Blue, and how strong that was.

In closing, BE PATIENT. Talk, yes, Discuss, yes. Accuse, especially with as little actual substance has happened so far, no.

Ok, iGrok never says anything about the accusations against him, but says that people can wait to vote. Also, iGrok says that his analysis will come later and he will pick a person on objective reasons. He then links probably his last good analysis of some random old game. At least link that game so we can see what you said. He then ends with a closing statement of “be patient”. Coming from a townie stand-point, that makes sense, but really there was no need to say so. The Town also never was disintergrating at all, it was only be attacked by mafia.

13rd post is his EBWOP stating that his 12th post was directed at gtrsrs. Also, he labeled GGQ as a townie with the green font. HOW THE FUCK DID HE KNOW THAT? WE DIDN’T EVEN KNOW MUCH ABOUT GGQ AND GGQ ALSO STARTED TO ACCUSE iGROK A BIT EARILER IN THE THREAD. O.o?

Just based on this so far, you can easily say that iGrok is a mafia scum since he knew who GGQ was without proving that stance.

14th post is him telling blackone to read the haikus.

15th post

Show nested quote +

Well now we know that the mafia has an own thread or something like that. i think we can surely say iGrock was just doing it to stand out/fun/boredom.

Mafia ALWAYS has their own quicktopic. Thats how things run. The only exception was Sleeper Cell Mafia, which I hosted ^^

But thanks for understanding me. I'd like to have fun this game. Its not that I'm not taking things seriously!

I do not care about sleeper cell mafia, why even say it? I liked your haikus too, oh well.

16th post is him taking out benj with asking for a mod check on editing

17th post is iGrok telling alderan to give timestamps on quotes. Note that Alderan did a short analysis of me, but iGrok never responded to what he said nor gave his stance on me yet from this analysis.

18th post is iGrok writing rules about self-modding in the games

19th post

On June 06 2011 12:13 CjrNinja wrote:
Gl hf everyone.

Day 1 thoughts:

Freeloader625 innocently asks a silly question and gets a lot of heat on him because of it. I doubt he is scum, experienced players have already said that mods make it clear to mafia that they can communicate outside the thread. I’d say that his posts shows him to be more town orientated because of it. so all those voting for Freeloader please unvote him immediately so as to avoid a mislynch. Subsequent posts are ambiguous one-liners, not really much to go on, looks silly but not screaming scum to me.

Speaking of which, the people who have voted for freeloader625:

Cherubael- Not sure about this guy. Pushed for the freeloader vote, which raised my suspicions of until I saw that he pointed out 35spike1s post and further lack of contribution (see below).
Show nested quote +

Please elaborate on the last part for me.

Jimbooo- vote retracted. Quick to jump the gun for a lynch, but realizes his mistake and unvotes quickly. Probably too overeager, no scummy posts.

Lafali- vote retracted.
Show nested quote +

WTF is this shit? Hopping on the voting bandwagon is exactly what scum does in order to lynch townies. Good job, way to do the scum’s work for them. Based on this post alone it makes you either scum, or a very clueless townie. You’re my prime suspect atm but I’ll withhold voting for you until after I see how you defend yourself.

Treadmill, Benjef, Drazerk, grush57. Don’t really have much of a read on these guys. Treadmill pretty hasty in his posts like Jimbooo, but went about it in a more scummy way. Can you all please unvote Freeloader for now and wait until some of the more legitimate candidates for your vote continue posting?

Others:
35spike1
Show nested quote +

All the one liners regarding the freeloader post aren’t helping town, it gives the opportunity for scum to fly under the radar and post rubbish like this and getting away with it unchecked. Keeping my eye on 35spike1. Time for a contribution please.

Kumuri- Pretty experienced. Very forward with his opinion and is looking at the right people. Definitely the most day1 pro-town person we have at the moment.

Amazingxkcd- Stop posting obvious, non contributing shit. “It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it.” That post has no value whatsoever except as a front for you to appear active.
Also, your copy+paste post on the guides to mafia are equally useless. Analysis on the game please, if other people haven’t already read the 4th post on this thread, then it’s their loss.

TheAwesomeAll- He made a list, and he’s checking it twice. No big deal, a good way to keep track of people who haven’t contributed much, if anything. Don’t know why people are getting so riled up about it though monsterDrakar?

Conclusion/tl;dr: Everyone stop voting forFreeloader and keep your eyes on what Lafali, Cherubael, 35spike1 and Amazingxkcd have to say.

/rant

Whats your opinion of me? Curious

This is probably iGrok’s first major slip-up. He has yet to give any meaning analysis besides the one on kurumi, and now he is asking for what people think of him. This is as bad as saying “Hey, who are the blues here? Let’s think about what to do”. If iGrok really was a townie, then he shouldn’t worry since he knows that he is innocent. If iGrok was mafia, then clearly he is a bit worried about his position in the game. Gtrsrs is being quite accurate on why iGrok seems fishy. IGrok still has yet to respond to the analysis that other people give.

20th post is him telling everyone to wait for his analysis of kurumi.

21st post is him stating that a certain player isn’t playing.

22nd post is him giving his massive post on kurumi. Also, I play as GlaDOS in roleplaying games, particularly mafia games when you pick your name, and he stole my identity.

23rd post is iGrok responding to gtrsrs and then referencing another the same mafia game. Well, if town won on day 3, maybe I can win for the town on day 2? 0.o?

24th and 25th post is random stuff, disregard.

26th post

On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote:
here is my scum hunt
you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing
you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against
the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them

even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town

everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next

Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is.

But as a refutation,

I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose.
I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail.
Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above.

If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players.

On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote:
in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.

I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play.

His first point is that he tried to hide the PRs. If he really wanted to hide the PRs, then he should had just simply said “do not reveal yourself at all until you feel safe to do so”. His next point is guessing the PR count. No one knows the PR count in this game. Then he attempts to put gtrsrs by stating that he has done a lot more for the town. When we looked at the last 26 posts made by iGrok, only one actually had any good meaning, which was the analysis of Kurumi. He is lying about his own contributions. There is no need to do so. Just admit that he didn’t do much. Also, he lied about holding the town together when in reality it was rookie who got the town together (ask me later why).

27th post

On June 06 2011 16:20 CjrNinja wrote:
@ iGrok
I disagree with your player analysis. I think Kumuri is taking a very pro-town initiative by putting a lot of pressure on inexperienced players. It's a good opportunity to gauge reactions and hopefully pick up on a scum slip if the accused can't handle the pressure ^^
Also, the less attention towards blue roles, the better... last thing town needs is an inexperienced playing letting slip his blue role on day1.

Disagreement is fine! I'm a huge fan of actual discussion about things - but someone had to start the analysis, and the little quotes we were getting before are much more annoying to deal with. As I said, I'm not completely certain on Kurumi, but if I had to choose I'd say scum. Thats why I asked for a DT check.

Regarding my 'focus on blue roles', which I take you and gtr to mean my Setup Analysis, what I love most about Mafia is the mechanics, and so I'm going to try to work those out as best I can. Since neither mafia nor town knew (or knows now) how many of each role there are, I haven't really done anything. However, with rough, probable numbers, we can work out the best way to assign our blue powers. Blues are (arguably) the most important part of a mafia game - we should try to line up some good actions instead of just hoping for the best.

Big mistake here. If iGrok was a fan of discussion, then why is it that the only people that he talked about was kurumi and gtrsrs. Against kurumi, he just tries to state that kurumi is acting like McCarthy (DO your history research, this guy is actually an interesting case). Against gtrsrs, his defence had either been lies about his posts or about gtrsrs not having enough evidence.

28th post

On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +

note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell. but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. notice how he will now try to shift the attention of the town elsewhere - probably by using a 9000-character post again on an "analysis" of someone else

don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town

Nice OMGUS, bro. You have a habit of responding only to one thing in a post. You should probably change that, not just for this game but for all of them.

Anyways, the last thing I'm going to say regarding this (unless you keep up the smear campaign [or answer my points]) is that I said Kurumi is trying to use experience he doesn't have to get into power by associating himself with those who do. Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players. Whomever among them we can confirm/be reasonably certain is town should be looked up to.

And just FTR, it wasn't 9,000 characters. It was 26,088 characters. Lets see you put that kind of effort into a post, eh?

230,000 characters and counting. Care to put that kind of effort into a post, eh? Ok, HE LABELS VAIN AS TOWNIE, GGQ AS TOWNIE, AND JACKAL AS TOWNIE. GGQ DIED A TOWNIE. He never talked anything about GGQ nor Jackal nor Vain. That is quite a suspicion. Again, HOW DOES HE KNOW WHO GGQ AND JACKAL AND VAIN ARE?? HE NEVER TALKED ABOUT HIS STANCES ON THEM?!!?

29th post is him saying that if he is 100% correct, he will never play with Meapak again. Well, Jackal is confirmed scum, and GGQ is confirmed townie, so looks like Meapak is going to play with him again.

30th post

EBWOP:
The reason is because those are by far the three strongest players in this game, and it simply wouldn't be fair. Hosts are supposed to randomize teams, but they have some responsibility to ensure a fair and balanced game.

What previous history did he have with those 3? How does he know that Meapak could have balanced them like that?

31st post is him laughing at the only small analysis of him. I am sure that if gtrsrs knew about day 1 results, then he could have made a more convincing post.

32nd post is iGrok talking about Pyo’s decision.

I do not understand this. GTRSRS has been hating on iGrok for practically the entire game and iGrok just says “gtrsrs is not scum”. HUH? 0.o? 0.o? 0.o?

33rd post is iGrok defending himself against Pyo. The only defense he posted revolves around having fun and “keeping the town together”. I assure you that he has lied about this already.

34th post is telling the amount of hours left in the game.

35th post

Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis?

I have brought forth a major post about this and I will TL:DR this here: iGrok just met jackal? iGrok just trust jackal? 0.o?

36th post is iGrok saying that he shouldn’t have analyzed Kurumi. And he plays Protoss…. (Fucking Reavers and Colussi…)

37th post

On June 06 2011 22:52 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +

As his post concerning kurumi 's behavior had helped, i am concerned with this statement. iGrok has listed a couple of seasoned players whom he reconizes for their experiences, but here he is already jumping to the conclusion that he had no reason to suspect them, especially jackal whom only made a post spectulating.

It seems to be that iGrok is quite convinced that kurumi is a scum as he already asked for a dt check rather than trust the dts to make the right decisions.

About jackal, i do not know much about him as he has not stated a lot yet, but iGrok is showing us that he is in league with jackal as from the podt above.

As of now, i do not want to label iGrok as scum, and i'd rather wait until later to see what jackal says and how the game flows, but iGrok is still suspicious. If iGrok is convicted as scum, then that puts pressure on jackal to respond.

If I was convinced Kurumi was scum, I'd be pushing for his lynch - hard.

Do I know that Jackal is town? No. I know he's good. Therefore I want a lot of action from him, for two reasons: If Jackal is Town, a lot of action from him means a lot of pro-town things happen. If he is scum, a lot of action occurs that I can make a read from.

He did a 27,00 character post on analysis on Kurumi and isn’t convinced that kururmi is mafia? Why waste 27,000 characters then? Then he defends Jackal. Remember this, Jackal and iGrok inherently trust each other throughout this game.

38th post is iGrok asking Xedat to add more information to the list

39th post is iGrok saying that editing is the cardinal sin.

40th post is saying that 12 hours until end of day 1

41st post.

Goddamnit Kurumi I don't know if you're town or scum. PICK A SIDE DAMNIT

AS OF NOW, THIS IS THE ONLY POST TO PROTECT IGROK FROM BEING LABELED AS MAFIA. How? He’s acting like he doesn’t know. But I am afraid that this is too weak to protect him.

42nd post, disregard since Vain made a typo error

43rd post is iGrok having no clue about who to lynch. About this time, people started to form cases against me and against you. Why don’t you lynch me? I am the biggest target right now.

44th post is Him making a list of people. Look really hard at the people he is trying to protect from lynches. Then he votes Drazerk for voting without posting. Not exactly the best course of action. If he is bandwagonning, and not talking then he probably have no important role in this game, despite looking very scummy.

45th post

On June 07 2011 03:11 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +

That's pretty big list. Care to explain why those people shouldn't be lynched?

Me: I'm Town.
Jackal, Vain, GGQ: I want to know who among you is also town.
Kurumi: I don't know what to think about him, but I want to know more. As the game progresses he's gotten better imo, so I'm waiting to see how he turns out.
Treadmill, 35spike1, CrJNinja, Xedat, aprudds: Hes not afraid to say what he thinks, and did some decent analysis.

Um, you are not town, bye bye.
Jackal is not town, GGQ got killed, Vain I wrote his analysis already.
Kurumi, you’re town,
The others; I either didn’t know yet or they are suspicious to me.

This could be seen as a mistake since iGrok wanted to keep GGQ safe and Jackal safe. Essentially, he is trying to keep all of the experienced players alive rather than his side alive.

46th post is iGrok wanting a DT check on Kurumi.

47th post iGrok is now advocating gtrsrs for wanting to lynch iGrok without any proof yet besides saying that gtrsrs is hating on him.

48th post iGrok would be shocked if the GF would be lynched on day 1. That technically cannot happen. Very scummy post here.

49th post is mod help request

50th post

Alright guys, I'm awake. Reading through now....

On June 07 2011 09:24 GGQ wrote:

Thoughts on what I've read so far: iGrok's post on setup was not blue-fishing at all (if he was doing that for the benefit of his mafia friends, he would post it in mafia quicktopic, not in thread), but it also was kind of useless (sorry bro, I know you like this kind of stuff, but there was no need to post it). You went through a lot of trouble and wild conjecture just to arrive at the conclusion that we probably have a pretty normal setup (2dts, 2-3medics, 2-4vigs, 2-4 vets). You could have just stated that that's a normal setup for the roles that were listed. I want to mention, though, that I've played in games on this forum where the only blue roles were vigilantes, and where the only blue roles were veterans. Be ready for anything and DONT count on blue roles to win the game for you. Greens win games far more often than blues do.

The reason I posted the big analysis even though it came to a normal setup was so that many of the new people, who don't know what a traditional setup is, would have a rough idea.

That being said, I find this rookie bandwagon very interesting. I don't think he's scum, just... bad with his words.

Drazert is still my vote.

iGrok posted an analysis on kurumi because he wanted to show an example? 0.o? I thought he wanted to give his stance on Kurumi. He then accurately predicts that Rookie just sucks at this game.

51st post is EBWOP and 52nd post is him asking for clarification on Impervious’s plan

52nd post is timestamp till 1st lynch.

53rd post is wordplay with CjrNinja’s name

AFTER THE DAY 1 LYNCHES, OTHER PEOPLE START TO ANALYIZE iGROK’s MOVE FROM THAT PERIOD, SO REFER TO THEM.

IN ALL, HE HAS REALLY ONLY MADE A COUPLE OF GOOD IN-DEPTH POSTS, BUT HE HAS YET TO MAKE A REALLY GOOD PRO-TOWN MOVE. HIS ONLY GOOD ANALYSIS IS ON KURUMI, AND HE HASN’T BEEN PLAYING IN THE TOWN’S FAVOR AT ALL.

VERDICT IS

MAFIA

ISCLAIMER: THERE IS A SUPER SMALL CHANCE iGROK IS TOWNIE. IF HE FLIPS GREEN, NO ONE SHOULD BLAME EACH OTHER SINCE HE PLAYED LIKE A GODFATHER HERE*

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 09 2011 23:36 GMT

#1003

On June 10 2011 08:34 Jackal58 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lol. Where's my Wikipedia article? iGrok is scum but I'm scummier but you're not going to say why but you'll vote for iGrok?

You didn't read my other posts that also has a lot of spoilers?

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 10 2011 00:09 GMT

#1009

On June 10 2011 09:04 aprudds wrote:

Show nested quote +

You still have no defense.

Also I don't have my analysis

I feel left out!

i didn't write about you?

ok i will work on that now then.

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 10 2011 01:10 GMT

#1024

On June 10 2011 10:01 Senj wrote:
Dug back through the thread for a second time with a sheet noting interesting things about iGrok and Amazingxkcd. I'll spare you all a giant wall of text as the arguments against them have already been laid out and beaten to death. However, I did find several interesting things that will hopefully bring up a little discussion.

iGrok analyses Kurumi, calling him out as scum (I stand corrected on my previous defense of iGrok's analysis.) Yet says he isn't a good lynch vote. Uh... right. That's a pretty big disconnect between the words and the actions.

I also find it strange that iGrok puts himself on his no-lynch list early on. Isn't that sort of a given? preservation of self and play to win.

Amazingxkcd also puts an analysis of himself under his Huge Posts O' Analysis. Is that supposed to be some resounding defense of yourself?

If you want, i can go completely through his post of me as my defense if you like.

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 10 2011 11:14 GMT

#1120

Well, it seems i died...

GL HF all, and don't forget, XKCD FIGHTING!

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

June 16 2011 15:49 GMT

#1481

On June 16 2011 22:49 iGrok wrote:

Show nested quote +

Read the QT. If we'd had an accurate vote count, I would've come back with a claim, causing chaos and a ton of shit. There were contigencies for whether or not that saved me for a day (I knew I would be dead by day 3, though there were even contingencies for if I lived past that. Me leaving the thread for an extended period accomplished its goal of letting other people talk, bring up other targets, and almost succeeded in getting xkcd lynched instead of me.

Mafia had really good planning, a completely disorganized town, and all of that was ruined by the xkcd/me fiasco and modkills.

lol, glad i screwed up ur evilmaster plan.

It was a good game all, though the modkills were sad

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