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Denmark1582 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:54 Mataza wrote: TdL shows no interest in the game. He probably doesn´t even wanna play anymore. He is on my "consider murder on these gus" list though.
It´s a gamble, since his role blocks a lot of people passively. The first night after he is dead, you get to see the first time how many kills are actually possible in this game. It's way too easy to use the excuse that he is uninterested in the game. If he was truly uninterested he would get replaced. It's not like he has completely vanished either.
Anyways if Palmar flip red everything just got a lot more simple...
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Denmark1582 Posts
Agreed with most of Mig's points tonight, except that you shouldn't discard Torte just because he voted Bum. I don't think everyone on the Palmar train is mafia, and likewise I don't think everyone on the bum train is town. Anyways, in case he survives the night, lynching bum should be first order of business tomorrow, no exceptions.
Also, don't forget the option to vigi Sinani. He is either lurking scum, or a very useful townie to kill. Either way, he is not a bad shot.
Sigh I guess I better put together a full case on TDL...
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Denmark1582 Posts
##Fistpound Palmar
This should be a certain win now ^^
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Denmark1582 Posts
Well I was holding back on my TDL analysis to not distract from getting bum killed. As that seem to have solved itself I'll post it:
Torte De Lini analysis
+ Show Spoiler + We know the following about Torte de Lini
1) It is his first game 2) He has a role with a posting restriction, but massive roleblocking potential (3 targets one night)
A new town player is often appalled by the amounts of posts in a game of mafia. They are however eager to try the game, and often put a lot of effort into it. This is because every person naturally thinks he/she is special, and will make a difference. We all know that new town players are often misled, make a ton of mistakes, and can easily be more of a detriment to their team than an asset, but they are always eager to prove themselves. New town players wants to make an impact on the game. Often they fail at it, becomes tired of reading, gets very apologetic or self hating, but they always start out wanting to contribute.
TDL is in this game assigned a role with a posting limitation. We know this, because Meapak designed it, and he was green. If you know anything to TDL’s general posting habits on the forum, you know he is posting eagerly, border lining spammy. He can also write pages long blogs without problems. If he wants to ague, he is more than capable of it.
His posting in this game starts out by being short and meaningless. In his first post he fucks up by saying it’s an advantage that no one can tell his alignment, being a new player. Woops, the least a townie is concerned about when he start the game is his alignment. His next post tries to excuse that.
You can call that a noob mistake regardless of alignment. But what’s important is that 1) he is ignoring the current discussion in thread. 2) He has just wasted two of his precious posts on nothing. Both of these things goes against making an impact. New town players makes mistakes with their opinion. New mafia players, they just want to slip by.
His next post of the day (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186¤tpage=24#462) is the most condemning. Notice the repetition in the questions, and notice the missing words in the second sentence. The post shows sign of 1) extensive editing, where words and sentences gets mixed up, 2) being a “post and forget” type of post. Number 1 is a sign of mafia trying to make his contribution for the day, which eventually has to be fake. Number two is a sign of not actually wanting to follow up on the discussion, he just wants others to spend time answering them. Both are clear mafia signs, and should have raised huge red flags.
After getting called out on the above post he plays the noob card the rest of the day. His posts are filled with guilt however, you can tell that he is feeling pressured, even if he is just a name amongst many others. A stupid townie simply gets annoyed and shuts up, or goes offensive, TDL tries to look as small as possible.
A nice scumslip happens the day after (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186¤tpage=79#1571) . The post itself is characterized by being non substantial. Why would someone under a posting restriction post to say he should do something else before posting? But the funny thing is it is completely strapped of any suspicion. New players often see mafia everywhere, and don’t trust anyone. Torte doesn’t seem to be concerned with that at all, he is just fitting in. But notice the editing with regards to his vote. He has clearly not felt good about voting wiggles, and has tried to come up with a way to soften the impact... and failed, because he knows wiggles is guilty. This is such an obvious example of a newb scum struggling with himself to bus his own team mate that I can’t believe I haven’t noticed it sooner.
The day continues with more one liner spam that is completely uncharacteristic for a townie with a posting restriction. Since I don’t like repeating myself, you can read it yourself. He comes out to talk about his role and defend himself, but the main thing to notice is he is not at all concerned with finding mafia, and that he underlines how much of a noob he is. At this point his posting restriction is just a poor excuse for lurking his ass off.
Later in the day he put up a defence against redFF’s accusation (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186¤tpage=94#1873). This is a good post that finally shows us that TDL has the potential to be a very contributing player if he wants to. Just a pity that all he does with his time is to defend himself then, right? It doesn’t help that redFF’s case is bullshit. All in all TDL looks more town from this post than before, but it doesn’t tell us much of his alignment other than that he could contribute if he would. Rest of day is more of the same.
Conclusion: From reading this analysis it should be clear that TDL is not playing to further the town goals. It is not his abilities that is lacking, it is his motives. There is several contradictions between his posting restriction and one line contributions. His posts are doing their best to avoid standing out. His contributions are post and forget contributions. And most importantly, he is not suspicious of anyone at all, and why would he be, he already knows the scum. All he is trying to do is to survive.
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Denmark1582 Posts
On June 09 2011 06:09 redFF wrote: And yes lol TDL is scum that should be obvious now great job there Barundar too bad you have done jack shit all game :D Would have been helluva lot easier getting him lynched if you hadn't posted such a trash analysis of him :/
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Denmark1582 Posts
>_< I'll answer tomorrow.
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Denmark1582 Posts
I can't be bothered to answer TDL's wall of text. The guy is scum, end of.
EM has been giving me town wipes all along, even if his Palmar lynch seems pretty stupid looking back. I know I'm town, so that leaves you hiro.
Nice job trying to save TDL, you are pretty much confirmed scum at this point, if you really want to save him we might as well lynch you! ^.^
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Denmark1582 Posts
Why would town lynch bum? I don't even get the reasoning, he claimed bullet proof at night, not at day.
Seems like a poor attempt to waste a KP for town. This is not over yet guys.
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Denmark1582 Posts
Don't waste a DT check on Hiro, he is scum. Instead use it on Amber, he started out strong town but was on the Palmar train. My guess is mole.
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Denmark1582 Posts
Dude it's pretty easy. We have a bunch of confirmed townies, and it's just a matter of killing through the non confirmed before scum can kill them. Luckily town has two KP and mafia has only one.
Why am I even arguing with you? You are scum and just trying to drag it out, I don't get why you don't just concede :/
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Denmark1582 Posts
Nice knit-picking! Thing is, if you really where town, then why would we waste a DT check on you over your team mates? If you actually flipped green, lynching me the day after would be the easiest thing in the world. A shot works just as well, if not better, than a check in this case, as you can't mess with it.
We need the DT check to find out where our next kill should be after you are dead, so we don't have to lynch blindly to find mafia.
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Denmark1582 Posts
On June 09 2011 16:22 hiro protagonist wrote: Basically town should not listen to ether one of us until one is dead or confirmed town/scum. That way, the one of us that is scum wont interfere with town discussion. that's my advice. I have made my thoughts known. Its up to you guys now Haha, afraid of how your BS got called out? ^^
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Denmark1582 Posts
On June 09 2011 16:33 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 16:23 Barundar wrote: Nice knit-picking! Thing is, if you really where town, then why would we waste a DT check on you over your team mates? If you actually flipped green, lynching me the day after would be the easiest thing in the world. A shot works just as well, if not better, than a check in this case, as you can't mess with it.
We need the DT check to find out where our next kill should be after you are dead, so we don't have to lynch blindly to find mafia. lynching you the day after will be the easiest thing, but thats one more town dead. Great thing is, we all ready have a lynch target in TDL, and Bum if he survives. So we can check tonight on one of us. The more town, The more kp mafia has to use to kill us. Having one more confirmed town alive rather than a 1:1 trade is dependent on the situation. Imo, we have lost a lot of town! the bigger our confirm list grows, the harder for Mafia to interfere... So tell me then, who would you shoot tonight if Bum and TDL dies?
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Denmark1582 Posts
On June 09 2011 16:44 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 16:36 Barundar wrote:On June 09 2011 16:33 hiro protagonist wrote:On June 09 2011 16:23 Barundar wrote: Nice knit-picking! Thing is, if you really where town, then why would we waste a DT check on you over your team mates? If you actually flipped green, lynching me the day after would be the easiest thing in the world. A shot works just as well, if not better, than a check in this case, as you can't mess with it.
We need the DT check to find out where our next kill should be after you are dead, so we don't have to lynch blindly to find mafia. lynching you the day after will be the easiest thing, but thats one more town dead. Great thing is, we all ready have a lynch target in TDL, and Bum if he survives. So we can check tonight on one of us. The more town, The more kp mafia has to use to kill us. Having one more confirmed town alive rather than a 1:1 trade is dependent on the situation. Imo, we have lost a lot of town! the bigger our confirm list grows, the harder for Mafia to interfere... So tell me then, who would you shoot tonight if Bum and TDL dies? you ![](/mirror/smilies/wink.gif) Oh right, a hypothetical. Well heres the thing, we both look scummy. So its hard to judge for an outsiders perspective. If Bum and TDL die today, I will be ecstatic, and will gladly take the bullet because the joker is dead and mafia is likely cut in half. so listen up town! if Bum and TDL die, shoot me! So much WIFOM... at this point you have me fearing bum won't die...
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Denmark1582 Posts
Exactly. All I see is Hiro trying to divert the lynch.
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Denmark1582 Posts
I have gotten busy in real life so I'd prefer to die before SK thanks.
Also fun fact: Town is gonna lose.
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Denmark1582 Posts
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Denmark1582 Posts
I told Bum my alignment and in exchange for trying to keep town from lynching him on day 3 he would give me the names of his scum team. I also traded him two townie roles in exchange for shooting Kurumi. lie.
Btw I'll gladly answer questions as the mafia spokesperson until my death. I will ignore any questions not from Jackal or Palmar however, as I don't want to give away info about my allies.
Shoot away (hihi)
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Denmark1582 Posts
Yeah. I imagine you and me can have more of a conversation though, might have a proposition for you later .
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Denmark1582 Posts
Haha Jackal don't be so sure. You just might have to help us with this green infestation problem we are trying to cure.
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