EPTIf you'll have me.
Mini Mafia IV
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
If you'll have me. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 20 2011 13:47 LSB wrote: All right, lets get this started Lesson number Zero, read the Newbie guide www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180405 Lesson number one, learn from your mistakes Most of you come from XXXVI. Are you going to do the same thing you did then? NO! Improving at mafia is like starcraft, you analyize what you did wrong and fix it. Things town did wrong 1. Lynch people for being to smart. Shouting down Insasious, killing rol, killing Seraph. Comeon town. If someone is smart, listen to them. Don't stick your fingers in your ears and go "blahblahblahblah" 2. Relying too much on DTs (I'll get to this later) and town circles. They don't work, unless the game is broken. This game isn't broken 3. Not doing your own analysis, and letting the mafia do it for you. Actually read the thread guys, and do your own thinking DTs DTs are not a replacement for analysis. They only suppliment analysis. DTs, please claim only if 1. You have found red 2. It is close to lylo and one of your greens (plural, not singular) is about to be lynched 3. It is lylo. Town, don't rely on DTs. Mafia is an easy game. As long as the town isn't stupid it wins. I learned a lot from that game. Biggest mistake town made was lynching actives. Lurkers beware. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 20 2011 20:15 Barundar wrote: We didn't actually lynch that many active in that game - lsb being the exception, but it cost them the godfather. Rol getting vigi'd was terrible though... What does everyone think of the plan proposed by gmarshal? No blue talk and lynching of inactives untill something better comes up? Personally i feel we are neglecting an important subject that can make people open their mouth this way. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you agreeing with the lynching of lurkers or do you see another option? Personally I think if the people that wish to lurk understand that their inactivity is a death sentence they will post. Their posts may be all fluff and no stuff but they will post. I'm on board with gmarshal. You don't have to beat me over the head twice to get my attention. XXXV was enough. If you're blue good for you. If you feel compelled to make a claim good for you. If you feel compelled to make a false claim you will be lynched as soon as we find out about it. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote: @Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive. And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking. I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I would argue that lynching the most active players on day 1 is a mistake. Unless of course active player A states "I am scum" which probably isn't going to happen. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 20 2011 23:18 chaoser wrote: I'd actually want less fluff and have players post less but bigger posts cause mafia can easily blend into a whole group of people writing fluff and then we're fucked. If everyone is writing big posts then mafia is hard pressed to write big posts too and so if they write small posts they stick out like a sore thumb. If they write long posts there's more a change they'll mess up and give themselves away. Either way they react, we win. Right now the main thing we're looking for is for everyone to "check in" with a post. When does day end lol? Mad scared lol That's kinda what I was getting at. It is in Mafias best interest to say nothing. To remain non committal when they do say something. If lynching inactives forces them to post then it is actually easier for town to look at whose lips are moving but not saying anything. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote: Is there another option than pressuring and eventually lynching them? Things to look out for regarding lurkers is people like zeks in pyp3, who didn’t post much, but always posted game related stuff, ie. he was following the thread without contributing. I agree. That's what I meant by fluff. Day 1 will be harder to tell who's lurking but by day two it should begin to be apparent. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:27 LSB wrote: Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects) Assuming we have docs. Or DTs or anything. I'm assuming we are all green with a sprinkling of red. Any blues that can confirm their roles as the game goes along is a bonus. But I'm going on the premise we have none. Looking for blue help in XXXV killed us. I won't make that particular mistake again. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 21 2011 02:53 Hesmyrr wrote: Since everyone seems to be piping up, I shall take on the role of Devil's Advocate. Note that the current situation is 8-3. Assuming nothing happens with town keep failing lynches: 8-3 6-3 4-3 That is 2 ML available to eliminate 3 mafia. If vig misfires the available mislynch decreases to 1. Holy jeez, I'd love to have been stuck with F11 setup with these odds. Random bantering aside I am questioning that whether it is wise to religiously throw away one of these valuable lynch opportunity in banner of activity. Of course inactivity is hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell) but it should not be given greater weight than ordinary accusation even in day 1. At least the latter would help draw towns discussion more toward post of actual players. I believe scum KP is 1/night if I am reading the OP correctly. Am I right or did I miss something? | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 21 2011 07:11 chaoser wrote: I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. There have been games where inactivity lost town the game. And I'm not talking about people being active and then becoming inactive. I'm talking about inactives staying inactive. Town doesn't want to waste lynches on them past day one and then you get like 3-4 inactives just sitting around at the end of the game making it almost impossible to weed out the last 2-3 mafia that are hiding within their ranks. Also, you're talking about semantics. Whether we mean inactive or lurker, inactive means they ain't posting and so from the point of view of the town, it's the same thing, a bad thing. Its like our policy to lynch millers. Doesn't matter if they are real mafia or not, if someone comes up as red, its better to lynch them than not to. Saying we're going to lynch inactive might not do anything but voting and pressuring them will get them to post so your point on that is wrong too. If they are truly "inactive", as in they are away from the comp, they won't come defend themselves and we can get a sense of whether they are "inactive" or a "lurker" as you put it. I'm actually weary of people who go "omg he wants to lynch inactive, he's mafia!" Everyone knows what people mean when they say lets lynch inactive day one, it's just a way to generate discussion. Most games start with people saying lynch inactive. And most of the time they're not mafia. Why did you jump to quickly to say he's mafia? We got a whole day left and not everyone has said anything yet. We will have a better idea of who is truly inactive by tomorrow afternoon. That is when I will cast my vote. I have no desire to be in another game where the only person I talk to for the last 3 days is myself. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 21 2011 07:16 Pandain wrote: Did you just say this? :p Again, we want to pressure people to POST, not lynch the inactives. There is a HUGE difference between those two. We want to pressure the inactives and lynch the lurkers, not lynch the inactives themselves. Remember, mafia aren't inactive, they're lurking. Inactives are those who are bored, who don't care about the game, who don't have time. Lurkers are the ones who are watching yet don't contribute. Differentiating between those will make or break it for the town. We can't just lynch all the inactives and hope for the best. As of right now, I want Shockkey to post, but am giving him time. Meanwhile there is someone who might be scum and slipped up. There's no point not pressuring the person at the very least. Don't include me in your "we". If they aren't posting I want to kill them. There is no difference between "lurking" and "inactive". They are one and the same. The 5 games I've read through and the one we just finished all had "inactive lurkers" at the end that were scum. Why wait? | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 04:49 Pandain wrote: Okay seems like roughly 8 people have voted for me. I find that slightly disturbing and random but okay, I will defend myself? I wasn't even sure what to defend myself about but lets go forward. But first, I'd like to congragulate everyone and helping keep this thread so far much better than others, with long posts and everything. ![[image loading]](http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/glitters/y/yay_we_did_it-6035.gif) Fadoodle yeah! But going forward, I still see no reason to vote me. So far I have been doing what I do every game, that is, getting town in a postive way forward with content oriented posts. What I'm doing actually isn't so much getting more analysis(although it is), its encouraging an atmosphere of contribution and thought. I voted Mr. Wiggles because he hadn't really been contributing, he had just been spamming. But lately he has actively been contributing with long well thought out posts. Mission accomplished. I voted Jackal for the same reason, but actually am inclined now to vote for someone else with his excuse, but will actively be pressuring him in PM land to contribute more so. Jackal, that's why your being voted. Contribute more and I'll lay off you. But as I was reading, Lunar destiny was right. What if they're just afk? Then we could just spend a whole day voting osmeone but they won't even read the thread to be able to respond! Which is partly why I'm unvoting jackal as of now. I will be looking for someone else to vote. You guys are voting me. I urge you to help me in getting this town on the right track. Too many times town ends up in day 2 with nothing more than like 10 one line posts over the course of day 1, because there was just too much spam/not real discussion. So far I've been pleased with how this has been going so far. But just want to now start talking about what's currently been happening. 1.I do not think we should vote LSB. Plainly, he has been contributing alot so far, more than most of the people already. Plainly, if he is mafia, then we'll most likely catch him anyway. We should not be lynching actives, even if we have a slight suspicion that he's mafia. Obviously if we have a good inkling I suppose we should go for it(as in team melee mafia 2 incog fingered lsb day 1) but right now there's really nothing on LSB, and I wouldn't want to lynch an expierenced player. Plus there are some problems with your analysis, but I'll just name a few. 1. If you are hit, then u should claim. LSB was right. Becuase mafia can't tell if ur vet or just protected or what. 2.You're mistaking jokes for real content. (aka when lsb said coag got banned so dr. h could join) 3.The only real suspicious thing about him is his somewhat spammy nature. The most important of which being number 3, but that is certainly not a reason to lynch him when he's already contributed alot. As for the DT checks, that's more appropiate for talk during the night(less time for mafia to manipualte) but we can talk about it now. Personally I'm leaning towards checking people who "contribute without contributing." Don't just check the inactives, they're most likely bored townies. Don't just check big name players, most likely they're going to be framed/picked godfather. We should pick those who seem to be pro town, but fail to actually contribute. Obviously this can change. If you really have a good read on someone, check them But that's just some advice. Now he's all about getting them involved. I'm not here to rehability and reintegrate. That's a different game. Is Pandain trying to make his mafia lurker nest nice and cozy? FoS Pandain. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
Shockeyy - Yes he may be at work. Yes he may be unable to post. Or he may be something else. In either case if he continues at his present rate of participation he is a detriment to us. BloodyC0bbler - Hello!!!! You're the worst of the bunch so far. GGQ - Your lips are moving but you're not really saying much. I'm heading off to work. I'll catch up with you guys in a couple of hours. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
BloodyC0bbler- Help out an ignorant noob. What is this "Zodiac" you refer too? ShoCkeyy- I just want to say I understand commitment and prior responsibilities. Will you be active on the weekend? I am undecided on my vote atm. Am leaning towards Pandain but nothing is set in stone. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
I gotta go get some sleep. See you guys in the morning. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 23 2011 03:52 Pandain wrote: While Hesmyrr is a good choice for medic protection, having only one possibility for medics to protect is a very bad idea. Medic, you should RNG between Hesmyrr and another person you think is blue/going to get hit. As for the DT check list, here's my list: Barundar-I agree, that vote switch did catch my attention. Something about him just isn't right. However, he has been performing analysis, but his playstyle has been off(for example, doesn't post as much.) LSB Has been playing suspiciously Jackal This guy really catches my eyes. Either he is just showing how he's new, or he's mafia. It's somewhat consistent with the previous game so that helps him a little, but as of now i think he's a good check. Check away. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 23 2011 06:16 Barundar wrote: Regarding my vote switch, lack of activity around the day 2 key for a late switch onto annul in mafia xxxv. The sudden activity when LSB was actually pressured makes me regret it didn’t get through. We spend a whole day discussing inactives, without getting any better candidates than Shockeyy. In my opinion we needed to make something happen, and hope for a mafia reaction. I picked LSB over Gmarshal beceause of his reasons for voting Shockeyy:+ Show Spoiler + On January 22 2011 03:55 LSB wrote: I'm going to support the Shockkey lynch because 1) Indirect FoS on Pandain. Pandain has detracted from his initial posts on activity back in XXXV, one possible explanation could be that Pandain is on a scum team with an inactive, shockeyy. […] On January 22 2011 05:38 LSB wrote: I'm going to say I don't like Pandain's butterfly flirting around the issue. He isn't actually committing to any position, besides lets not lynch shockeyy. How about we lynch shockeyy and see what Pandain thinks???? :D! It struck me as suspicious that he would vote Shockeyy, while suspecting Pandain. Firstly, the connection was too flimsy to be of real value, Shockeyy had simply used some of Pandain’s arguments, while Pandain had stated his opinion on Shockeyy. Secondly a mislynch could easily be explained as just a way of testing Pandain. Add to this that my initial analysis of Pandain is town. His playstyle resembles that from my last game with him, plenty of finger pointing and last minute vote switches, while trying to lead the town. All that’s missing is a fake claim. While it’s a moot point, I don’t see a reason for a mafia to draw attention to himself like that. Lastly I have had to /out of mafia xxxvi due to time constraints, but I'm doing my best to be active in this. I concur with your analysis of Pandain. His play is almost identical to XXXV. An almost paranoid rush to change the vote in the last few minutes. I don't understand it but it is the same behavior. If I were on at the end of day yesterday I would have switched my vote to force a tie just to see if his head exploded. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 23 2011 11:11 LSB wrote: Firstly, that behavior is decidedly anti town. Rushing off into a lynch that isn't thought out is a bad way to play and a great way to kill a lot of greens Secondly, it isn't unique to his town behavior. He does this every game, regardless of being mafia or town. The thing is, he's not to careful as mafia, and spends time defending scumbuddies. It was a joke. I'm slowly getting a feel for the way various people approach this game. Pandains approach is akin to chicken little. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On January 22 2011 12:54 Pandain wrote: 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB. Yet you switched. On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote: make a choice fast. we can't have a tie Why couldn't we have a tie? At the point you posted this it was painfully obvious we were going to have a modkill. I'm just gonna keep sitting on you man. We have a 37% chance of lynching a red today. Unless we lynch you. Then it goes up to 100%. | ||
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