|
Now we move onto LSB. I can't fault him too terribly for not speaking up about gf as well, I didn't get it either and was waiting to see if he spoke up saying he got it before bringing it up, however.
He asked at least once, if not more times for people to claim if they got the roles he had emphasized in red. of those, 2 spoke up, 2 didn't choose their role, 1 didn't get their role, 1 is on a list of possible traitor candidates.
Now, of the two who didn't take their role, both are dead and flipped random wtf roles, day vig and random townie?
Now, in the top 4 players, (4 under our random townie flip jackal) we know he clashed with one of their roles. Vig, CPR, Bulletbill and GF? However, this isn't possible.
#4 on the list is dead and was bulletbill
Jackal was 5 and claimed he tried to get CC
That leaves 3 players alive who are CC
All 3 of those have claimed a role, ie 1 is lying. We have already caught Kenpachi in an act of deception as such he is the far more likely target for the CC role except that I know the gf role was sniped well before it ever got to me.
As such I am more prone to think that kitaman or decon has the CC role, and whichever one of them took it is likely red/sk. I will hold back my lynch vote until either one of them explains their self.
That either means he attempted to get CC and didn't get it, or stupidly aimed for a role that would deff be gone before it got to him (vig/cpr) or aimed for gf? As aiming for gf is unlikely, I would find it far more likely
|
On January 14 2011 01:26 CubEdIn wrote:
I got the role I was supposed to get, but it backfired.
I'm a medic, but I have weird head issues.
I may do either of the following:
Paranoid Doctor - Protect the target but also roleblocks them
Naive Doctor - This protection always fails on the target
Weak Doctor - This doctor dies if protecting a player not from their alignment
Bad Doctor - Protect the target but have a 25% chance to kill them as well
So yeah. Not the most helpful role in the game, and afaik no real way to check which one without risking someone's life (I mostly care about mine).
Unless Ace confirms that the "bad" variant exists you are lying and now my lynch target
##vote cubedin
Quick scan of the OP will tell you the only variants to doctor are normal, paranoid, naive and weak.
As such if ace confirms that he did include the bad variant your off the hook, till then your lying.
|
On January 14 2011 01:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now we move onto LSB. I can't fault him too terribly for not speaking up about gf as well, I didn't get it either and was waiting to see if he spoke up saying he got it before bringing it up, however.
He asked at least once, if not more times for people to claim if they got the roles he had emphasized in red. of those, 2 spoke up, 2 didn't choose their role, 1 didn't get their role, 1 is on a list of possible traitor candidates.
Now, of the two who didn't take their role, both are dead and flipped random wtf roles, day vig and random townie?
Now, in the top 4 players, (4 under our random townie flip jackal) we know he clashed with one of their roles. Vig, CPR, Bulletbill and GF? However, this isn't possible.
#4 on the list is dead and was bulletbill
Jackal was 5 and claimed he tried to get CC
That leaves 3 players alive who are CC
All 3 of those have claimed a role, ie 1 is lying. We have already caught Kenpachi in an act of deception as such he is the far more likely target for the CC role except that I know the gf role was sniped well before it ever got to me.
As such I am more prone to think that kitaman or decon has the CC role, and whichever one of them took it is likely red/sk. I will hold back my lynch vote until either one of them explains their self.
Edited out a thought that I thought I had deleted after realizing jackal claimed he went for CC.
|
On January 14 2011 02:17 deconduo wrote:Meh, I thought I had a chance but obviously not now thanks to bumatlarge. I'm SK, I was going to take CPR like I was supposed to but changed to copy cat at the last second while under the influence of a lot of alcohol. Of course in the morning I had no idea I changed my mind and was totally confused when I got CC instead of CPR. It was only by checking my sent PMs that I vaguely remembered what I did. A lesson to not play mafia while drunk  I was able to use my KP to take out Jackal, hoping there wouldn't be anything in the day post to differentiate between bullets and zaps. I thought I was pretty safe, but I didn't count on someone (bum) to come up with that idea. Oh well. Also, being first pick as SK is kinda sucky. Theres way too much attention on you. ##Vote DeconduoI'm gonna be nice and not use the Day Vig shot. Good luck everyone <3
You could always be helpful and shoot cube for fake claiming -_-
|
On January 14 2011 02:34 CubEdIn wrote:
/facepalm.
I was hoping to give the Mafia a reason NOT to hit me.
(risk of killing someone -> good for the mafia)
If you find a way to figure out why I would claim that as mafia, then fine, lynch me.
But it's just that medics don't seem to be on-target this game.
I was 90% sure someone would defend BULLET BILL, but no.
So yeah, if you don't lynch me then mafia will surely kill me sooner or later, now that I claimed and they have basically no reason not to hit me.
In fact, fuck it, I'll help you!
##vote Cubedin
Your on a list of potential traitor candidates, and you fake claim? Fuck your stupid.
|
On January 14 2011 02:34 LSB wrote:
So, BC, you're on the balance team. How likely is it that there are 3 SKs in a game?
Of the 4 KP. I count
1 Mafia.
1 Deconduo SK
2 Unknown
Aces PyP mafia games are balanced differently than most games (and he has never talked to me about balancing this setup), however I doubt there are 3 sk's.
2 possibly, but we know the cpr doctor and joat are not where they are supposed to, so chances are one of those two is still in circulation, and there is a second sk.
|
On January 14 2011 02:39 LSB wrote:
Wait, so we don't actually have any doctors?
Fishball's not a doctor, CubEIn isn't a doctor....
Cube is fake claiming the part of his role that kills people, but staying with doc overall -_-.
He just fake claimed while being suspected of traitor. I just don't get people sometimes.
|
On January 14 2011 02:41 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 02:34 LSB wrote:
So, BC, you're on the balance team. How likely is it that there are 3 SKs in a game?
Of the 4 KP. I count
1 Mafia.
1 Deconduo SK
2 Unknown JOAT/CPR/Hider Also, wasn't the Witch supposed to help tonight?
The witch already made a save.
|
On January 14 2011 02:41 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 02:34 LSB wrote:
So, BC, you're on the balance team. How likely is it that there are 3 SKs in a game?
Of the 4 KP. I count
1 Mafia.
1 Deconduo SK
2 Unknown JOAT/CPR/Hider Also, wasn't the Witch supposed to help tonight?
Also, hider doesn't have KP
|
On January 14 2011 02:43 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 02:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:34 CubEdIn wrote:
/facepalm.
I was hoping to give the Mafia a reason NOT to hit me.
(risk of killing someone -> good for the mafia)
If you find a way to figure out why I would claim that as mafia, then fine, lynch me.
But it's just that medics don't seem to be on-target this game.
I was 90% sure someone would defend BULLET BILL, but no.
So yeah, if you don't lynch me then mafia will surely kill me sooner or later, now that I claimed and they have basically no reason not to hit me.
In fact, fuck it, I'll help you!
##vote Cubedin Your on a list of potential traitor candidates, and you fake claim? Fuck your stupid. It's spelled "You're". You know, when insulting someone, it's nice if you'd make proper use of your official language. It would make you look less dumb. Also, it's not a fake claim at all. I really am Doctor. I just figured Mafia would have less reason to hit me if i seemed more dangerous. So we do have doctors, they just don't work as they should.
It would actually make me appear less educated. Pointing out a horrible flaw in logic, or catching it quickly would still display that I'm not dumb. Hell your claim also made the assumption that no one would read the rules, realize you were lying and get you offed. You also are on a list of possible traitor candidates, fake claimed and set off the red flags saying "traitor here"
Good job!
|
On January 14 2011 02:44 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 02:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:41 CubEdIn wrote:On January 14 2011 02:34 LSB wrote:
So, BC, you're on the balance team. How likely is it that there are 3 SKs in a game?
Of the 4 KP. I count
1 Mafia.
1 Deconduo SK
2 Unknown JOAT/CPR/Hider Also, wasn't the Witch supposed to help tonight? Also, hider doesn't have KP But which could've rescued hider?
Witch would only have "rescued" hider had he properly blocked whoever he was hiding behind. I think this is how it would work, but not sure. In regards to him dying, he happened to be hiding behind the wrong person and died with them.
|
On January 14 2011 02:52 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 02:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:43 CubEdIn wrote:On January 14 2011 02:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:34 CubEdIn wrote:
/facepalm.
I was hoping to give the Mafia a reason NOT to hit me.
(risk of killing someone -> good for the mafia)
If you find a way to figure out why I would claim that as mafia, then fine, lynch me.
But it's just that medics don't seem to be on-target this game.
I was 90% sure someone would defend BULLET BILL, but no.
So yeah, if you don't lynch me then mafia will surely kill me sooner or later, now that I claimed and they have basically no reason not to hit me.
In fact, fuck it, I'll help you!
##vote Cubedin Your on a list of potential traitor candidates, and you fake claim? Fuck your stupid. It's spelled "You're". You know, when insulting someone, it's nice if you'd make proper use of your official language. It would make you look less dumb. Also, it's not a fake claim at all. I really am Doctor. I just figured Mafia would have less reason to hit me if i seemed more dangerous. So we do have doctors, they just don't work as they should. It would actually make me appear less educated. Pointing out a horrible flaw in logic, or catching it quickly would still display that I'm not dumb. Hell your claim also made the assumption that no one would read the rules, realize you were lying and get you offed. You also are on a list of possible traitor candidates, fake claimed and set off the red flags saying "traitor here" Good job! Yes but fail to understand simple explanations doesn't make you seem to bright either. I didn't fake claim. Fake claiming would be playing like deconduo and leading the town to believe that my role is something different than it is. I claimed DOCTOR. My role is DOCTOR. Can you see the "simple logic" in here? All I did was make-up a trait to make me seem more dangerous TO TOWN. Explain how this would make me a more efficient Mafia? I didn't assume that nobody would read the rules, I hoped that Mafia won't re-read the rules (since, let's face it, we can be quite sure that Mafia didn't pick doctors, unless they were going on the off-shot of getting Weak Doctors and improving their KPs). You can call me a liar, sure, and call Lynch all Liars on me, I'm fine with that, but don't give me the fake claim bee-ess. @LSB: I was more dangerous if the mafia thought I could kill townies. I can't, at best I'm killing myself if I defend a red. But that's a small chance overall.
lawl? You lied about a possible type of doctor you could be. You did this WHILE on the suspected traitor list. Do you not get just how bad that is? If the mafia was smart they would auto shoot you on this as it sets off huge signals. You also stated you did this hoping people would re-read the rules also bad move as if I didn't call you out for this, someone else would have, putting you back in the same boat.
As for move if your red, it wastes time looking at other people, it gives you a huge wifom defense that people might believe, it sends town into confusion around what roles the reds might have etc...
Also, a medic for mafia is a good role. They have to dodge sk hits, and if town has night kp, town KP.
|
On January 14 2011 02:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 02:52 CubEdIn wrote:On January 14 2011 02:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:43 CubEdIn wrote:On January 14 2011 02:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:34 CubEdIn wrote:
/facepalm.
I was hoping to give the Mafia a reason NOT to hit me.
(risk of killing someone -> good for the mafia)
If you find a way to figure out why I would claim that as mafia, then fine, lynch me.
But it's just that medics don't seem to be on-target this game.
I was 90% sure someone would defend BULLET BILL, but no.
So yeah, if you don't lynch me then mafia will surely kill me sooner or later, now that I claimed and they have basically no reason not to hit me.
In fact, fuck it, I'll help you!
##vote Cubedin Your on a list of potential traitor candidates, and you fake claim? Fuck your stupid. It's spelled "You're". You know, when insulting someone, it's nice if you'd make proper use of your official language. It would make you look less dumb. Also, it's not a fake claim at all. I really am Doctor. I just figured Mafia would have less reason to hit me if i seemed more dangerous. So we do have doctors, they just don't work as they should. It would actually make me appear less educated. Pointing out a horrible flaw in logic, or catching it quickly would still display that I'm not dumb. Hell your claim also made the assumption that no one would read the rules, realize you were lying and get you offed. You also are on a list of possible traitor candidates, fake claimed and set off the red flags saying "traitor here" Good job! Yes but fail to understand simple explanations doesn't make you seem to bright either. I didn't fake claim. Fake claiming would be playing like deconduo and leading the town to believe that my role is something different than it is. I claimed DOCTOR. My role is DOCTOR. Can you see the "simple logic" in here? All I did was make-up a trait to make me seem more dangerous TO TOWN. Explain how this would make me a more efficient Mafia? I didn't assume that nobody would read the rules, I hoped that Mafia won't re-read the rules (since, let's face it, we can be quite sure that Mafia didn't pick doctors, unless they were going on the off-shot of getting Weak Doctors and improving their KPs). You can call me a liar, sure, and call Lynch all Liars on me, I'm fine with that, but don't give me the fake claim bee-ess. @LSB: I was more dangerous if the mafia thought I could kill townies. I can't, at best I'm killing myself if I defend a red. But that's a small chance overall. lawl? You lied about a possible type of doctor you could be. You did this WHILE on the suspected traitor list. Do you not get just how bad that is? If the mafia was smart they would auto shoot you on this as it sets off huge signals. You also stated you did this hoping people wouldn't re-read the rules also bad move as if I didn't call you out for this, someone else would have, putting you back in the same boat. As for move if your red, it wastes time looking at other people, it gives you a huge wifom defense that people might believe, it sends town into confusion around what roles the reds might have etc... Also, a medic for mafia is a good role. They have to dodge sk hits, and if town has night kp, town KP.
Used wrong word :p
|
On January 14 2011 03:00 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 02:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:52 CubEdIn wrote:On January 14 2011 02:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:43 CubEdIn wrote:On January 14 2011 02:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2011 02:34 CubEdIn wrote:
/facepalm.
I was hoping to give the Mafia a reason NOT to hit me.
(risk of killing someone -> good for the mafia)
If you find a way to figure out why I would claim that as mafia, then fine, lynch me.
But it's just that medics don't seem to be on-target this game.
I was 90% sure someone would defend BULLET BILL, but no.
So yeah, if you don't lynch me then mafia will surely kill me sooner or later, now that I claimed and they have basically no reason not to hit me.
In fact, fuck it, I'll help you!
##vote Cubedin Your on a list of potential traitor candidates, and you fake claim? Fuck your stupid. It's spelled "You're". You know, when insulting someone, it's nice if you'd make proper use of your official language. It would make you look less dumb. Also, it's not a fake claim at all. I really am Doctor. I just figured Mafia would have less reason to hit me if i seemed more dangerous. So we do have doctors, they just don't work as they should. It would actually make me appear less educated. Pointing out a horrible flaw in logic, or catching it quickly would still display that I'm not dumb. Hell your claim also made the assumption that no one would read the rules, realize you were lying and get you offed. You also are on a list of possible traitor candidates, fake claimed and set off the red flags saying "traitor here" Good job! Yes but fail to understand simple explanations doesn't make you seem to bright either. I didn't fake claim. Fake claiming would be playing like deconduo and leading the town to believe that my role is something different than it is. I claimed DOCTOR. My role is DOCTOR. Can you see the "simple logic" in here? All I did was make-up a trait to make me seem more dangerous TO TOWN. Explain how this would make me a more efficient Mafia? I didn't assume that nobody would read the rules, I hoped that Mafia won't re-read the rules (since, let's face it, we can be quite sure that Mafia didn't pick doctors, unless they were going on the off-shot of getting Weak Doctors and improving their KPs). You can call me a liar, sure, and call Lynch all Liars on me, I'm fine with that, but don't give me the fake claim bee-ess. @LSB: I was more dangerous if the mafia thought I could kill townies. I can't, at best I'm killing myself if I defend a red. But that's a small chance overall. lawl? You lied about a possible type of doctor you could be. You did this WHILE on the suspected traitor list. Do you not get just how bad that is? If the mafia was smart they would auto shoot you on this as it sets off huge signals. You also stated you did this hoping people would re-read the rules also bad move as if I didn't call you out for this, someone else would have, putting you back in the same boat. As for move if your red, it wastes time looking at other people, it gives you a huge wifom defense that people might believe, it sends town into confusion around what roles the reds might have etc... Also, a medic for mafia is a good role. They have to dodge sk hits, and if town has night kp, town KP. It's good if I'm read that it wastes time? More than if I would have just stayed low and not said anything? I could have claimed Weak Doctor or Pranoid Doctor and have a LOT more credibility. And I don't care that I'm on the traitor list, you keep pushing that, but I really don't care about it. LSB made it pretty clear why going after the traitor is bad for the town. You know what I WOULD care about? How about the guy who kept the fact that he is CC under the blanket, and let Mafia have CPR. Or the other guy who didn't go with the plan and lost us role #2 of most importance: JOAT. BUT HEY FUCK THAT, THIS GUY LIED AND CAUSED ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE TO ANYTHING. LYNCH HIM!
Hey look, guy who took CC is SK.
Hey look guy who took GF there are plans to kill already.
As for saying you don't care your on the traitor list? Why? Town may not want to kill you instantly for being it, but we have to figure out who roughly it is cause guess what, red's are going to aim to recruit that person, hey guess what, that means one more red to deal with later. You made a bad play, accept it and move on. Don't want to die? how about you do some analysis to prove your town aligned and help? thats a good idea, awesome times really.
|
On January 14 2011 03:06 Eiii wrote:
Is no one else really worried about the fact that either CPR/JOAT is completely unaccounted for? :X If we have one non-SK non-mafia hit, then CPR is probably out there in someone else's hands, and for all we know JOAT is out there doing whatever.
If cpr at this point hasn't come out and claimed, its either in mafia hands, second SK hands, or a player who would never tell anyone he had it to begin with.
|
Woo, time for analysis time. Lets see how much hate it gets me.
HI LSB! *waves* remember me? Maybe you don't but you won't after this I swear!
Guess what people its time to analyze the infamous LSB, the planner, the strategizer and the anti town.
So lets open up with some fun times.
On January 03 2011 10:50 LSB wrote:![[image loading]](http://homeschoolblogger.com/explorer/files/2010/10/fractal-2.jpg) Information is BeautifulIntroductory Notes + Show Spoiler +1. There are 21 roles, and 21 People. Of these roles. Only three are completely ainti-town. The Godfather, the Traitor, and the Janitor (To a degree).
2. There are two doctors. So even if the mafia knows where two of the most powerful roles are (JOAT, Bullet Bill). It shouldn’t be a problem as we can protect them every single time.
3. The mafia only has 1 kp. So at best, they can only take out one good role a night
Taking these two points in mind, I’m coming up with the Information is Beautiful plan. The goal of the plan is to give almost everyone a role so that there will be soo many blues that the mafia can't do anything about it. The plan in a nutshell. We will create a list of roles. For example 1. CPR Doc 2. Comp Vig 3. Janitor. Lets say the draft turns out to be 1. LSB 2. Deconduo 3. Kenpachi LSB would draft the CPR Doc role Deconduo would draft the Comp Vig role Kenpachi would draft the Janitor role We do this for 20 roles. The last person will randomly chose a role. Because picking traitor would be dumb. Step one: Number Picking PhaseWe want the number picking phase to be as random as possible. So please. No one declare what number they will be picking. This will make it hard for the mafia to predict what spot they will take. We will put together a list of what spot will take which role. This way the mafia won’t be able to pick which role they are forced to take. Step two: Role Drafting PhaseEveryone will draft the role they will suppose to be drafting. Step three: Resolve DisputesLets say the person who was suppose to pick JOAT didn’t get his role. We can start sending Role Cops and Bullet Bills to figure out who took the JOAT role. ConsiderationsInformationThe mafia would know where every single role would be. This means that our alignment cops are pretty vulnerable. But remember, the town would know where every single role. This opens up lots and lots of possibilities. DTs immediately telling results. Doctors claiming who they are going to protect before they do, so if they actually are weak doctors, we got a 100% mafia. Town will also get up to three KP. 1 Lynch KP. 1 CPR Doc. 1 Comp Vig. The town KP will severely outnumber the mafia KP. Serial KillerThere is a key fact about the SK we can exploit. The SK is bulletproof. That means that whenever one of the town hits doesn't go off and is blocked, that person is the SK.
Stunning plan which he mentioned pre game. Now lets look at some preliminary comments to it
On January 03 2011 13:41 Incognito wrote:
Lol @ LSB's plan. Why am I so tempted to join this game...
On January 05 2011 00:15 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 14:47 Incognito wrote:On January 03 2011 14:43 LSB wrote:On January 03 2011 13:16 kitaman27 wrote:On January 03 2011 10:50 LSB wrote:
2. There are two doctors. So even if the mafia knows where two of the most powerful roles are (JOAT, Bullet Bill). It shouldn’t be a problem as we can protect them every single time.
What about the fact that the medics identities will be public too? Couldn't they be picked off day one? On January 03 2011 10:50 LSB wrote:3. The mafia only has 1 kp. So at best, they can only take out one good role a night Town has to worry about 2 kp because the SK will likely be sniping good roles as well. It is unlikely that any of these kills will be blocked if the veteran, bulletproof, hider are all public and the medics are sitting ducks. Would it be better for the anti-town roles to be predetermined so the town has some control over them, while the pro-town roles remain hidden? That would result in some overlap in role selection, however important roles like bullet bill and alignment cop won't be taken out so easily. All right, in order to understand this fully, you have to understand one thing Clash is equivilant to a mafia kill / SK kill Lets say that in my plan, I was assigned the DT and you the Medic. All right, mafia might spend on of their KPs and take out the DT Now, lets say we just randomly choose roles. I picked DT, and you picked DT. Sure the mafia 'doesn't know where the medic is' but we have no medic. Frankly, yeah, one of our DT/Medics will die. But we got 19 other blue roles to draw up on. The point of the plan is to eliminate clash in role selection so that we get an obcene amount of information. If you still don't understand, try propsing a solution. The threat of having a medic is almost as good as actually having a medic. As you know, medic saves are quite rare. As long as mafia thinks there are medics in the game, then they can't just brashly decide to hit someone important and know with confidence that he will die. As long as no medics die, mafia always have to choose hits with the consideration that there might be medics. Town could care less if they actually exist. Agreed! By far the most important thing is keeping the mafia from having perfect information. Actual roles can help depending on how things develop, but they are not the end-all in these games and surely not worth giving the mafia full (or even too much) info.
On January 05 2011 07:29 Ace wrote:
Since the game hasn't started yet I'll say this about your plan: If I was Scum I'd love it.
On January 05 2011 07:40 Ver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 07:29 Ace wrote:
Since the game hasn't started yet I'll say this about your plan: If I was Scum I'd love it. Yup. God help the town, especially if they have to deal with a traitor.
On January 05 2011 13:32 Fishball wrote:
Did LSB just assign a single role to every draft?...
That's even worse than Radfield's plan.
Now everyone keep in mind, THIS IS ALL PREGAME. It has been turned down by citizen, fishball, ace, incog, and Ver. Now, this is a pretty decent group of players that hated the plan.
Now lets see what happens as the first day approaches.
On January 07 2011 08:02 LSB wrote:
1. CPR Doc
2. JOAT
3. Vig
4. Bullet Bill
5. Copy Cat
6. Doctor
7. Role Blocker
8. Doctor
9. Day Vig
10. Role Cop
11. Pardoner
12. Alignment Cop
13. Politican
14. Tracker
15. Mason
16. Witch
17. Hider
18. Janitor
19. Bulletproof
20. Prince of Darkness
21. Veteran
22. God Father
Philosophy
Red Roles are "Watch Roles". These roles if they do anything suspicious the town can easily tell and lynch. Mafia cannot do much with these roles
Green Roles are "Pro town roles". These roles are crucial as their abilities to gather information and protect others can bring town victory
Blue Roles are "role verifiable roles". These role can easily prove that they picked the role that they were suppose to pick. This will be useful if people find if someone stole their pick, or when we're hunting the traitor.
Alternation
: The roles that we don't want the mafia to get their hands on are the green roles. That's why I alternated the green roles with the red/blue roles. This way it will be harder for the mafia to snag up these roles.
The confirming as started, people have their preliminary alignments, and he begins posting his plan again, wait what? wasnt this already bashed down and proven to be anti town. Still hes pushing it.
Lets see some reactions now the game has started.
On January 07 2011 08:22 Fishball wrote:
Decided to join last minute, I haven't read anything yet, including OP. I'll read it later when I have time.
I just want to bring this up front first, it will be very unlikely for me to follow LSB's plan.
On January 07 2011 09:04 JimboSilvers wrote:
Why should we follow it?
Clearly we need some kind of control over certain roles but your plan was already poor received by a lot of people here. Yes you may have altered it but you are still trying to control every pick which keeps some of the same problems. I have yet to finish reading #2 but Ace already said mafia lost due to inactivity not the plan. Using that as support seems stupid.
But there's a more important reason. This is GODAMN PICK YOUR POWER 3. It's going to be awesome. It is not LSB's slumberhouse of bored afkers. I sure as hell aint using no predetermined list.
On January 07 2011 09:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:08 LSB wrote:
Why we need the plan? Would happen with everyone picking what they want?
For starters:
There's going to be a few townies that get the role they want. Maybe there's going to be a Bullet Bill, and a JOAT.
There's going to be a whole bunch of townies that tried to pick the Bullet Bill and the Joat, but didn't get it so they just ended up green.
There's going to be a whole bunch of roles that are important left untouched because no townie decided to pick it.
It's going to be easy for mafia to pick up the roles they want. Just get a high draft number and start stealing. You act like it will be so easy for mafia to get high draft numbers. Doing it this way allows them to downplay their draft numbers, giving them more comfort during the draft for roles that could be beneficial for them or detrimental for the town to lose.
On January 07 2011 13:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
also lsb -_- *facepalm* Your plan gives wayyyyyy to much information to mafia. It also gives the mafia a stupid easy time of faking being town depending on the role they get.
On January 07 2011 14:06 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:22 Fishball wrote:
Decided to join last minute, I haven't read anything yet, including OP. I'll read it later when I have time.
I just want to bring this up front first, it will be very unlikely for me to follow LSB's plan. I'm going to do what fishball is doing. I think LSB's list is a nice guideline for what you should be looking for, but it should not be set in stone. It's easily infiltrated and a lot can get screwed up. I think you should rewrite the list LSB with what you think is best for each slot, and then add an alternative choice. For instance, Slot 1 should take CPR doc 100%, so we can keep tabs. Now I would argue that slot 2 should take CV, because we want to minimize confusion in the case of clash. Then again, your plan of staggering the pro-town/mafia-denied roles will make it very difficult for mafia to secure what they want. If we assume the mafia is going to play safe, then this should go smoothly. Yet mafia may be willing to play risky, jeopardizing town's plan of denying and securing in exchange for a member. I think we should leave it up to who gets the role. Now for numbers, I'd say if you want to be pro-town and possibly net a powerful role, go [1-7][1]. This threatens mafia in tying, forcing them to take odder numbers. If you want a strong role and feel you will play it beneficially, go [1-10][1-5]. If you feel a lot of suspicion, you can roll high, can placed towards the middle and check what your suspect picks, though that should be only when you feel very strongly about someone's scumosity. But if you do find an alternate role pick, and that person hasn't been secretive about what they will pick, you net the whole town a traitor or a sneaky scum. But that's also a high risk chance of you checking a townie and getting vanilla, or you making an accurate FoS, but finding that mafia has no plans of diverting from his role. So in short, LSB's list should just highly recommend things. If you get slot 9 and think you want to see if you can get JOAT, Go for it! If you are slot 1, tell everyone you are picking CPR, and then pick GF instead, then you got some 'splainin to do.
On January 07 2011 16:25 Misder wrote:
/confirm
I think this debate will become down to whether or not giving town info/roles outweighs giving mafia info/roles.
Couple things for the plan:
1) Mafia has only 1 KP, so I feel like the only way they can possibly win is if they get a KP role.
2) Role cop has some usage by checking roles and seeing if it corresponds to what role they should have gotten.
3) Allows for more roles
a) Avoids clash between town for important town roles ie tracker (although refer to 1b and 2 of the following list)
4) Doesn't guarantee a stop in giving mafia roles that they would want ie CPR Doc
Couple things I'm concerned about LSB's plan:
1) Guarantee that mafia will get roles
a) Since we know the draft order once we pick numbers, if mafia lands on one of the roles that is crucial to mafia, ie vigilante, mafia can relax in getting the role they want.
b) Even if mafia doesn't get the role they want according to LSB's list, they may still conform with the list just to deny the town with a useful role ie Bullet Bill
c) All the roles are useful for mafia in some way (except role cop, but refer to 2)
2) Still doesn't stop mafia from clashing with important town roles, esp if mafia ends up with a role that they don't want
2) Plan makes bulletproof and veteran useless, as they can't draw in mafia KP.
3) Mafia will know who is what role, and is able to target by role instead of in the dark.
Right now, I'm leaning towards no to LSB's plan, partly because of pregame discussion but mostly because I feel cons outweigh pros.
Ok everyone, I know what your thinking? why is he quoting so many peoples posts. Simple, This is an example of all the kickback this plan got, from pre game, into number drafting. STILL, he pushed this plan. It was pushed all the way up till the draft picks were assigned, and continued into the current day where people "should have picked" specific roles. However, if you think the whole idea of pushing this plan is bad, keep in mind he sat back and did not claim he didn't recieve his role. Normally this wouldn't be considered a bad thing, except for reasons like this.
On January 10 2011 13:30 LSB wrote:
If you were assigned a red role and did no recieve it. Please Claim
In addition, if you picked traitor and did not recieve it, please claim.
On January 10 2011 13:56 LSB wrote:
To be more specific. If roles 2,3,4,5,7,18,20 followed the plan and did not get their role, please claim.
On January 11 2011 12:36 LSB wrote:
Jackal58 should be the copycat.
But as for the pardoner, I agree that the role should be used early to prevent mafia from using it late game to pull off a lylo win. At the same time though, it can prevent a townie from being lynched.
On January 12 2011 04:53 LSB wrote:
aidnai. Can you please roleclaim?
On January 12 2011 08:54 aidnai wrote:about your night plan LSB, barundar's verification is subject to being checked by a role cop, fishball's is subject to having a tracker play along with us. Zeks already said he's not going with your plan, so there's a good chance we don't have a tracker. Eiii did agree to pick rolecop, but he hasn't mentioned if he got it or if he'll check barundar. If we don't get these checks, that leaves a lot of wiggle room for scum. Also Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 13:30 LSB wrote:
If you were assigned a red role and did no recieve it. Please Claim
In addition, if you picked traitor and did not recieve it, please claim. You the godfather LSB?
On January 12 2011 08:58 LSB wrote:
I have a very good reason for not saying anything about my role.
On January 12 2011 09:09 LSB wrote:Are you bulletproof?
On January 13 2011 13:34 LSB wrote:
This is an important question. HaploPaithan, are you the doctor?
On January 13 2011 13:50 LSB wrote:
Kenpachi Claimed that he wasn't the CC.
I'd rather wait for HaploPaithan's claim. My position on who to lynch will be determined on this.
On January 13 2011 13:58 LSB wrote:
I don't think Kita is the CC.
If I had to pick the mafia team and their roles
Deconduo- CC
Kenpachi- Some Mafia role
Mafia Member 1- CPR Doc
Mafia Member 2- JOAT
Now, he has had more posts obviously, but the majority of his pregame/draft pick/day 1/beginning of day 2 is now up quoted. See the pattern? Very little is actually offered. He pushes a plan that is agreed upon to be anti town by the majority. He then after failing to get his own role via the draft pick sits back and asks for people to claim, repeatedly. Its an information hunt, building who has x role. We then have him refuse to claim when asked when he was assigned one of the roles that was supposed to claim into the main thread if it was taken by someone else.
See that last part there? HE DIDN"T FOLLOW HIS OWN PLAN. Period. He didn't follow the plan he was trying to push, he tried to farm information from people. He refused to claim, but still tried to call the shots on what other roles are doing. Plus, most of his posts are fluff.
I realize that I have not been the most active of people, but this is getting ridiculous. A player who has played this game so anti town is unbelievable that
A) he is still be listened to
B) He isn't dead yet
C) Everyone is oblivious to points A and B.
Everyone just sit back and re read his posts. Aside from his "plan" that next to no one followed (including himself no less!), he has posted very little contributions to the thread aside from trying to bandwagon kenpachi and aidnai. Today he begins the hunt for the traitor (which I am equally as bad for), and speculating on roles.
Overall he has done very very very little to actually benefit the town, and more to benefit himself / mafia. With the way he has been playing he is either a second SK or part of the mafia. Regardless, not enough posts of his appear townlike, and far too many appear anti town.
|
On January 14 2011 07:55 aidnai wrote:Here's why I think BC is scum. 1) Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 22:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
##vote layoffrage
Heading off to work and won't be back tonight, but LoR is the safest lynch target for today. Out of myself, fishball and him we are most likely the three most experienced players, and I know i'm town, which means at least one of fishball and him is most likely red. Out of those two, LoR has given the most reasons as why he is most likely a better lynch target.
By BC's own logic, we are left with a damn good chance that either BC or fishball is red, and BC has given more reasons why he's a better lynch. 2) disappears for 48 hours. As an experienced player, you're always a night kill target. If you're gonna have any effect on the game as a townie, you better get it done before the day 2 post comes up. BC had like 15 posts total before today. If you're scum though, sure, lay low as long as there's already chaos and the lynch targets are all townies (yesterday, the lynch targets were RoL and Jackal, both green). 3) resurfaces with FOS's on Kenpachi, Cubed, and LSB. It looks to me like BC is just throwing out enough accusations to see what sticks so town will be occupied with deciding to lynch either a town GF, a likely town doctor, or our town leader. Although I will readily admit that ken picking godfather is weird, and it's possible he saved JOAT for a scum further down the draft. And cubed I was suspicious of before today, but less so after his claim. 4) He picked godfather?! this role is much more useful to scum than town (because of alignment checks), so um, why pick it over something like doctor? if you are thinking you won't live long, why not hider or bulletproof or vet? or a one time use like witch? or if you want to deny scum a role, how about prince of darkness or janitor, which are both pretty dangerous for town? However, I think as a mafia, GF is a great choice for BC. BC should be a prime target for an alignment check, since he's an experienced player AND hard to read, so GF for him could save the scum team a lot of headaches... Speaking of alignment checks, What did you find out last night?
As you are the only one who analyzed me, I will spend the time to comment to you.
Between Fish and I, chances are one of us is red, I will agree with you there, although chances are higher that he is traitor than red, however I think fish and I can also both agree that we almost always gun for eachother in every game in some form. Still, I will give you valid point for one.
My inactivity for point 2. First off, let me mention that I have what is it called...oh yes a job. As a cook the hours I work are absolutely retarded. However, that only explains some of it. As for the rest. Guess what, if I stay under the radar long enough the mafia won't hit me for the simple reason that I am playing in a way they can't read. Factor in that big names much like myself also often attract medic protection early on I am not a safe night 1 hit. I am sorry you don't understand the way I play, but don't think I play "standardly" fatal mistake to make.
Point 3 time.
I start to post, (much like I promised I would the night before!) and post analysis. I try to emphasis on the idiodicness of kenpachi taking gf as #2 pick based on his arguments. Simple FoS that hey, I wasnt the only one to make.
The FoS on cube. Guess what, he lied. Plain and simple he lied, straight up, made a generic assumption no one would be smart enough to double check the role list, and I called him out on it. Factor in hes a suspect for traitor and it makes him look all the more guilty. Then for LSB, guess what, everything I posted is accurate. Look at the posts, analyze it. The guy has not been behaving in the best interest of the town. Anyone can see that with the posts brought up. Yet here you are defending him, interesting.
Point 4
Two simple reasons for choice of GF.
1) deny a scummy looking player his role
2) take a role that would give me a KP to use as I don't see very many people focusing on behavioural analysis anymore. IN ANY GAME. As its a role that was less likely to be noticed for its KP purposes I went for it. It fits my style completely.
Now you mentioning its a role that is good for me. Your right, I believe I can use a KP role better than most. You don't realize however, that I don't need the gf's ability to appear as town.
1) I am town
2) I don't need the cover to hide even if I were red or sk.
As for choosing a medic role? why would I. They are all inconsistent in their ability (cpr can kill people, medics can be of enough variants to be useless) and the way I hit people as mafia is unique compared to most players. Guess what, none of the people who died fit my criteria for night 1 hits.
And to better clarify the "role check bit" You do realize the amount of chaos I could create in a case I was spotted to be red far outweighs the cons of being caught right? Instead I am being rational, doing analysis of players who are caught lying. How about instead of critiquing me based on my "activity" you look at my contributions. How about next you then compare those contributions and compare the contributions of other players and realize a person who sits back and posts intelligent posts doesn't mean he's mafia, merely waiting for morons to be morons.
I will also refute part of LSB's refute to my post, after which he should auto die as Hell, I caught him lying again.
On January 14 2011 05:55 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 05:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Everyone just sit back and re read his posts. Aside from his "plan" that next to no one followed (including himself no less!), he has posted very little contributions to the thread aside from trying to bandwagon kenpachi and aidnai. Today he begins the hunt for the traitor (which I am equally as bad for), and speculating on roles. This is a flat out lie. I was against the aidnai lynch from the start. In addition after Kenpachi claimed godfather I confirmed and defended him. In addition, I am not hunting for the traitor. The hunt for the Copy Cat was a night role confirming game where we were trying to net a red. Todays target of CubE... I don't want to repeat myself so you can just look at my posts. And what's bad about speculating about roles? Sure, if that's all I did, I understand. However I have done much more, and someone has to do it else we get people like CubE running around who thinks Deconduo is some kind of Mafia CPR Doc.
On January 12 2011 04:53 LSB wrote:
aidnai. Can you please roleclaim?
On January 12 2011 04:54 LSB wrote:
##Vote aidnai
Regardless of you saying its a lie, you voted for him, showing that even if you "disagreed" with the wagon you still jumped on it. No excuse at all. If you have convictions that someone is town, you don't vote for them, period.
Also LSB, speculating on who has what role is awesome, but guess what, its also fing useless to a degree. We can figure out till the cows come home that someone is a medic, however, that doesn't tell us if they are mafia. YOUR ACTIONS ALL GAME HAVE BEEN ANTI TOWN. Simple. You may just be playing horrifically as town, but when every action is anti town, that says a lot about the player.
However, you getting random people to rise up and defend you is supplying the town with information it needs to find the reds, cause this sort of situation flushes them out nicely.
|
On January 14 2011 14:15 LSB wrote:
I think this senario could be a lot clearer after finding out your intentions
Vote Fishball
As for Kenpachi not being godfather, that would mean someone above BC is the godfather, and when I look at the role list it seems unlikely.
If kenpachi isn't the GF (how the hell isn't he? did he just claim ANOTHER ROLE), that would mean someone between #3 and #12 is the gf. at 13 I aimed for it and didn't get it. I honestly don't get you people.
##vote LSB
You are just way to scummy right now not to vote for.
|
On January 14 2011 12:20 aidnai wrote:omg I have a new profile pic! Thanks Bum! BTW bum, I'm sorry you're pictures didn't make it clear enough for me. Did you say you tracked LSB somewhere? or got actual information? LSB has made my eyebrows raise a couple times, for instance, Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 08:48 LSB wrote:
I'm going all out analytics this game. Work last game helping find the sk, so don't expect much spam from me.
Well, LayoffRage is probably the day vig (if not vanilla), so... vs. Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 03:30 LSB wrote:On January 13 2011 03:26 kitaman27 wrote:
@LSB, relying on roles rather than analysis? You know better than that, don't you? I'm not sure why I would be considered murkey, with the exception of the traitor plausibility which I can confirm tomorrow. I wouldn't mind a medic on myself and deconduo considering a MIA copycat with an extra kp would be extremely dangerous. Have you seen recent TL analysis? XXXV was a game of lynching and shooting people who actually decided to think rather than blindly following the general opinion. I'd rather not trust this game on the so call 'analysis' thankyouvery much. As well as Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 08:48 LSB wrote:
I'm going all out analytics this game. Work last game helping find the sk, so don't expect much spam from me.
Well, LayoffRage is probably the day vig (if not vanilla), so... vs. LSB total in-thread post count: 148 = 1/6th of all posts in a 30 player game = 5x average persons post count. But does all that make him scum? DrH for example has a history of spamming the thread, bossing the town around, asking for roleclaims, etc as an actual townie. It's easy to do when you don't trust anyone else to lead the town or make decisions. I'm conflicted trying to read him... One thing LSB did that doesn't make sense from a scum point of view: he told me to save barundar, who was very possibly the mafia's hit. Blue snipe, good role, LSB told me that's who I should save. Unfortunate that he was a minute or two late to tell me, but since Barundar flipped, we know LSB's pick would have in fact saved town/bullet bill... Also, I don't think it's likely that both LSB and BC are scum. Perhaps one scum, one SK, but how likely is that? not very in my opinion. And of the two of them, only LSB has a justifiable reason for picking GF. So I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Shoot BC.
You just quoted posts of LSB's that are contradicting in nature and still want me dead.....that is perhaps the most hilarious thing I have ever seen. As for justifiable reasons for picking GF, he had none aside from a scum made plan...one he didn't fully follow as guess what. HE DIDN"T CLAIM HIS ROLE WAS TAKEN. which was part of his plan, he was one of the roles marked in red. You can say he had a "justifiable reason" for taking his role, but he then failed to follow through on his plan and began role fishing for information.
You also compare him to DrH, who has a history of doing the same thing as LSB, and leading town's to terrrrrrible outcomes. Remember in the first bootcamp game where he lost the game for the town by day 2? Yea, that's the level of player you just compared lsb to, someone who as town throws the game away. Yet you still are following him? You're seeing a player who is obviously not playing town sided, one who lies, and yet you still want me dead?
Are you really playing this stupidly?
|
On January 14 2011 15:36 aidnai wrote:Here's what's stupid, BC: Show nested quote +Point 3 time.
I start to post, (much like I promised I would the night before!) and post analysis. I try to emphasis on the idiodicness of kenpachi taking gf as #2 pick based on his arguments. Simple FoS that hey, I wasnt the only one to make.
The FoS on cube. Guess what, he lied. Plain and simple he lied, straight up, made a generic assumption no one would be smart enough to double check the role list, and I called him out on it. Factor in hes a suspect for traitor and it makes him look all the more guilty. Then for LSB, guess what, everything I posted is accurate. Look at the posts, analyze it. The guy has not been behaving in the best interest of the town. Anyone can see that with the posts brought up. Yet here you are defending him, interesting. We're all busy. I have a job too. And spamming the thread just makes it hard to sort through anything. Therefore, you have to pick your battles. You have to post carefully and stay focussed. When you think you found a scum, you have to make your case and follow through. Even if you brought up legitimate points against LSB cubed and kenpachi (which I acknowledged in my original post), you're not following through, you're not trying to convince us they're scum, you're just throwing it out there to see if we'll bite. Tell me, do you really think all three of them are scum? Even here as you are defending your FOS's, you're not accusing them of actually being scum, you're just criticizing their play. But townies make mistakes, and bad townie =/= scum. Scumhunting 101. Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 14:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
...
You just quoted posts of LSB's that are contradicting in nature and still want me dead.....that is perhaps the most hilarious thing I have ever seen. As for justifiable reasons for picking GF, he had none aside from a scum made plan...one he didn't fully follow as guess what. HE DIDN"T CLAIM HIS ROLE WAS TAKEN. which was part of his plan, he was one of the roles marked in red. You can say he had a "justifiable reason" for taking his role, but he then failed to follow through on his plan and began role fishing for information.
You also compare him to DrH, who has a history of doing the same thing as LSB, and leading town's to terrrrrrible outcomes. Remember in the first bootcamp game where he lost the game for the town by day 2? Yea, that's the level of player you just compared lsb to, someone who as town throws the game away. Yet you still are following him? You're seeing a player who is obviously not playing town sided, one who lies, and yet you still want me dead?
Are you really playing this stupidly? You're doing it again-- equating bad town play with scum play. It's not the same, even bad townies want the town to win. Lynching a bad townie gets you closer to a scum win, not a town win. So tell us, is LSB scum or a bad townie? Your attack on DrH by the way is over the top. Luck conspired against town in salem as well as bad play. DrH was goaded into forming a circle by a random medic claim. Southrawrea happened to be chosen as godfather, and happened to be checked by the DT night 1. Although DrH was entirely too focussed on the town circle, his analysis did correctly identify Radfield and Jimbosilvers as scum as the game progressed. Also, I'm not aware of LSB or DrH having a particularly bad record of leading towns to terrrrrrible outcomes. But I guess you've been around longer... I still think you are scum (or maybe SK?).
dude, again, this shows your lack of experience. I DISPLAYED WHERE THEIR ERROR WAS. When someone makes a massive fuck up you FoS them, period. Of the three I have pointed out two were FoS, and one is a legimate push. You can easily tell the difference based on the level of analysis I did on LSB compared to the other two.
You can say all I'm doing is critiquing their play but all I did was hold them accountable for their actions. You're seemingly letting that slide? No dice duder. Someone lies, call them out on it. Townies have very few instances where lying benefits the town, and its something they do alot more often recently, which gives the mafia a huge berth to hide in.
It should be obvious it is LSB i most strongly feel about at this point. Which is why I voted for him, which is why I made a huge document post on his behaviour.
As for salem. As the host I can say there were multiple situations going on, and the only "unlucky" side was mafia infiltrating the circle as quickly as it did. The general pretense on which the game was played was bad. The writeups and general opinions on that game have been written and have pointed out the flaws of that game. I only used it as you compared LSB and DrH, and I opted for a game that most shows the correlation between the two as LSB has a habit of making plans I disagree with/I think are bad.
You are also free to your opinion on what I am, however if you so strongly believe I'm anti town, do what your saying I'm not. Make a huge behavioural post on me like I did on LSB. As of now you have heavy FoS me, but had very little backup and more than anything speculation as your proof. Use my posts, Use what I say. If you can't find anything there then I am most likely legit. Go read over the post I made up on lsb and realize that is how you behavioural analyze.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
