TL Mafia XXVIII - Page 4

On July 24 2010 02:16 chaoser wrote:


If the hit didn't even happen then we can assume both are mafia and that in general is a bad play by mafia, two public figures lying about roles. Either BC is mafia and lying or both are telling the truth. I think those are the only two real possibilities...right?

On July 24 2010 10:31 tree.hugger wrote:
Hahahaha, BC where was that Day 1?

Also, I think we should lynch youngjeezy. He's like Subversion, (and tied to him) but more annoying. I think, seeing how he's rendered an opinion on practically everyone in the town by now, he's a lynch that'll keep on giving. I've thought he's mafia from the beginning, basically, and he's continued to get pretty much everything wrong since then.

But I guess I'm open to lynching citi.zen as well, as he's been spectacularly unhelpful, and has been sitting firmly in that grey area between activity and inactivity that usually harbors at least half of the mafia.

On July 24 2010 12:05 citi.zen wrote:
Ok, let's blow this taco stand.

I am a mad hatter. I am part of a dt circle. I would love to help the two dt's connect. Here's how we can do it:

1. Wait to see if there is a counter claim against me and Tricode, since together we should account for the 2 town Kp roles. If there isn't, we are both confirmed. If there is, we have a red player.
2. The other dt asks a confirmed person they checked to contact me. If more than one person comes forward I will ask the dt to claim. This way, if the mafia decide to fake claim we have two reds, not just one.
3. The two DTs, remaining publicly anonymous, are in contact. We give ourselves a chance to win.

On July 24 2010 13:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



Wait wait wait, what?

So not only do we have you claiming the second KP role, your claiming your in touch with a dt, that your confirmed, and are now requesting a player the other dt has confirmed to check in and ask the dt to claim.....

So, someone starts to FoS you, you then claim amazing inner circle, and are asking the DT or if nothing else a confirmed townie to trust you 100%. The DT's in your plan stay anonymous, except are forced to claim to people they haven't verified opening up confirmed people to potentially die, and yourself an easy out if either of them die by accusing the other persons "confirmed" person as red.

Now as much fun as this would be
We have two town KP roles claiming today. neither of which are confirmed (counterclaims could disprove this but requires wasting dt checks, lynches, time, and opening up everything to a bomber).

Seriously people read the post, he is asking for a way into a town circle a dt has begun without confirming himself in the least, this is shady shady play and citizen knows it. Then couple it with



And you not only have him requesting DT's hes requesting all blues to roleclaim him. NO ONE, should be roleclaiming someone unconfirmed asking for so much out of the blue for this. This is beyond the matter of a simple roleclaim, and is now potentially a game ender for whatever side citizen actually is. Public roleclaims are bad enough, adding in a complete grab for blues is even worse.

On July 24 2010 13:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



Wait wait wait, what?

So not only do we have you claiming the second KP role, your claiming your in touch with a dt, that your confirmed, and are now requesting a player the other dt has confirmed to check in and ask the dt to claim.....

So, someone starts to FoS you, you then claim amazing inner circle, and are asking the DT or if nothing else a confirmed townie to trust you 100%. The DT's in your plan stay anonymous, except are forced to claim to people they haven't verified opening up confirmed people to potentially die, and yourself an easy out if either of them die by accusing the other persons "confirmed" person as red.

Now as much fun as this would be
We have two town KP roles claiming today. neither of which are confirmed (counterclaims could disprove this but requires wasting dt checks, lynches, time, and opening up everything to a bomber).

Seriously people read the post, he is asking for a way into a town circle a dt has begun without confirming himself in the least, this is shady shady play and citizen knows it.

On July 24 2010 14:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Say for instance He is lying.
[blah... blah...]

On July 24 2010 15:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Citizen, you know im criticizing you because what you proposed isn’t a solid plan.

You offered a plan that your “confirmation” was no counter claim. A dt has to prove he’s a DT after day 2 by handing over a red typically. A vig has to have wasted a shot and been willing to die (see tricode), a hatter would have to offer to sacrifice their-self. Instead you offered a plan that relies on everyone to implicitly trust your word. You are aware of what a hatters job would be, just as much as you know trust in a mafia game isn’t freely given like your asking. Ontop of that your asking for all the blues to claim to you? You have offered nothing but a plan with holes ones you knew were open. Also, if you were really the hatter, you would most likely have a bomb on me already, so are you willing to lay your life on the line Godfather? If your legit you would be able to put the dt the other person your dt confirmed in contact with the other dt liason and would let claiming possible to them. Shall we do this rationally then?

Once the two DTs are connected, you are no longer needed. So you should be willing to do your job.

On July 24 2010 17:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


dude your trusting someone with a game breaking plan and assuming someone isn't going to pass information of whos been cleared (even if all you say is cleared) down a line. People screw up in pms all the time. the longer a mafia sits in with them with you the higher chance you have to screw up.

On July 24 2010 22:52 XeliN wrote:
I'm going to ##vote SouthRawrea and DoubleLynch for now. I've barely had time to skim over this thread having been away from home and have to go out now as well.

I'd request people don't vote for me simply because I know this won't benefit the town, but I can understand if I'm a target due to suspicion or simply inactivity.

On July 25 2010 00:26 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:


no, he actually has a really good point - that people screw up all the time. i can't tell you how many games i've been in where the dt's manage to start a blue circle, include one too any idiots and get the role info leaked to the mafia = dead blues; or inadvertently let the mafia directly into the PM circle = dead blues

your plan is solid but not error proof nor fool proof, and we can't pretend like it is

the reason to be careful is that this is basically THE GAME right here. if town screws up they lose it's over, if it works then town is sitting pretty

On July 25 2010 01:20 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:


lol no matter what role i am i would answer this question the same way, so essentially it is a nonquestion. try again!

(the answer is that it is good)

Basically my worry is that you need a way to deal with false claims. The mafia are at an advantage right now in terms of kills and I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to send in one of their players as a false DT representative in order to sacrifice himself, disrupt your plan, and buy them another day

Situation: two people PM you claiming to be representatives of a Detective (they don't tell you his name). Now, since you know the name of the other DT or are at least in contact with him indirectly, we know one of these guys is a liar. How do you deal with this?

We would have to publicly expose the names of the representatives, in order to spend a day role checking or lynching (double lynch?), which costs the town another 2 kills before the plan goes into effect. Is there another, cleaner, plan?

Now one possible way to avoid this situation entirely is to have the remaining DT contact you himself, as you are confirmed town (unless there is a real vig/hatter out there and he is really really stupid or really really inactive). However, this still opens you up to false claims from the mafia, and in this case "your" DT can check one of the claimants (don't forget about the godfather!), thereby determining the innocence of the other. Still, you lose a night before getting the real DTs in touch with each other.

And then, the possibilities of what happen during the night can destroy the plan entirely. The suicide bomber comes to mind.

On the whole, this is a very powerful plan which is why i would expect mafia to interfere given that they haven't lost a member yet.

Since the idea of the plan has already been set in motion it seems to me that the town has little choice but to participate - consider a scenario where the actual remaining DT is too nervous to contact citizen, and then citizen gets contacted my a mafia "detective." Since only 1 claim came to citizen, can he assume the innocence of this claimant? This scenario alone shows why we basically have no choice but to follow through with the plan now, and that the remaining DT needs to follow the plan and find a way to contact citizen.

Personally, I'm not sure which method of contact is superior for the plan (representative to citi or actual DT to citi). Both have pros and cons here, can anyone else shed some light?

On July 25 2010 03:34 SiNiquity wrote:
Well with 2 / 2 KP roles have claimed (Tricode Vigilante and Citi.zen Mad Hatter), and with no counter claims up to this point, it seems likely that they're both innocent. The only scenario I can imagine where even one of these players isn't innocent is if:

1. Mafia knew the identify of the other KP role (else this player could blow the whistle at any time).
2. Knew that the other KP role would be inactive today (maybe they posted something to this effect).

As far as I can tell, the only way 1. could be accomplished is if they had already infiltrated a DT circle. This then requires

3. Knew that the DT would be inactive today (as the DT would also know 1.)

I searched and it seems Misder is the only one that hasn't posted since the Tricode / Citi.zen claiming party and has hinted he would probably be inactive this go-around. I think everyone else has at least posted, though a few only dropped in some one liners just saying they were either active or trying to catch up and didn't reference Tricode / Citi.zen directly, so it could be they missed it.

Am I missing anything, or barring this outlandish scenario are Tricode and Citi.zen clean?

On July 25 2010 03:47 SouthRawrea wrote:



Sorry I'm back, I slept in today. This has caught my eye though because I have no choice but to counter claim Citi.zen here as if I claim later, I will become less and less believable which is not really good to the town assuming that one of us is the mafia which is most likely. Again, sorry for not being on early enough to respond to his claim. It should be fine as long as the DTs have not yet claimed to Citi.zen.

On July 25 2010 03:52 SouthRawrea wrote:
So far I've been trying to slip under the radar so I don't get lynched early on or killed at night. I've actually only placed one bomb thus far as I was a little hesitant to kill place two people at risk even if I suspect them. My only one at the moment is on chaoser but that was placed yesterday after seeing that he didn't get lynched. I decided to abstain from placing a second bomb because of the first vote placed on me by Bumat... I felt threatened. :/

## Vote Citizen for now