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I think an interesting aspect of this will be trying to tell the difference between the red people who can share information and the town people that can share information outside the thread.
Because it'd be just swell for them if we mislynch and hit 1 of the lovers and kill 2 for the mob for free.
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On July 03 2010 15:07 BrownBear wrote:
Guys flamewheel is totally mafia we should lynch him mmkay
lynch him and bum for starting all this spam in the thread
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On July 04 2010 03:16 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 01:56 bumatlarge wrote:+ Show Spoiler [bum's big post] +Here's a quick summary of stuff for blue's to look at. Remember to do what YOU think is best, not what anyone else says. You know you are town, so use your judgement. L's plan + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2010 13:56 L wrote:Okay, so there's a few things I noted going through this that I figured some people kinda didn't realize while doing their analysis. First off is this little tidbit from the rules post: Starting means that number isn't going to stay at 1. If we fuck up our first few lynches and vig hits, we're going to hit a wall where mafia KP is just going to be too high to recover from. Between the recruitment, mafia kills and daily lynch, mafia have the ability to drop 3+ town votes per day. Assuming they play perfectly, mafia kill 2 people per day via lynch and night hit and gain 1 voting power per day. More dangerously, i'd assume that mafia gain a kp, either at 3 or 4 members. If 3 is kp=2, which we'll find out tomorrow, its possible that they move to kp=3 if they have a full 5 members. 5 members, however, would be a situation in which town has missed 4 subsequent lynches. 3 missed lynches is generally a loss condition in F11, so this isn't really that far off. This means that by day 3, there are going to be 16 players alive, 4 of them mafia, 12 town. The day 4, we hit 5/8-9. At this point, unless we have hatters, vig and double lynches available and used properly, we lose unless we kill the godfather. This is assuming that the town kp isn't improperly placed, and that we don't double lynch inaccurately. This means we need to figure out who the GF is by day 4 or we're boned, put simply, or hit goons one after another. Given this, if we have shitty leads on day 3, we might want to consider claims given the information we have, but not before then. Why not before then? Well, its pretty simple: Show nested quote +If the Godfather is checked by a DT, do you return "Godfather"?
Yes, all DT checks are 100% (minus roleblock). We can't let our DT(s) get recruited or killed early because they're the only non destructive way we have of identifying the GF. Given the shitshow of a last game, I'd like to be able to have our day 1 lynch proceed smoothly. Because of that, I want to know what people think about the following idea; We have one of the two masons claim. Given that we have verrrrry likely have medic(s), they can prot him and keep him alive during the game. If the player is lying, one (not both!) of the real masons can call him out. Given the fact that there are only 2 total mafia members today, it would cost the mafia essentially half their team to contest the mason claim. This is also a reason why claiming immediately would be more helpful than claiming at a later date. The downsides of this? Godfather now has a person he knows not to recruit, and the mason might die once mafia kp gets over 1. If we do that, we have a confirmed townie who can essentially drive our vote; if he's wrong, cool beans, it happens. If he's right; awesome. Either way, it'll prevent exploitable intra-town conflicts. And zeks roleclaim to mason (no contention as of yet, so assuming hes legitimate sounds very reasonable to me) + Show Spoiler +On July 02 2010 11:58 zeks wrote:
wow the reception was awesome!
Sorry for mindfucking you all for 10 mins rofl
Yes I'm one of the Masons. For better or for worse god picked me to be the Mason and the other mason and I agreed that I'd come out and roleclaim.
Now I'm going out for real now, no more posting for the night, play on, speculate if you will. I'll read through all this in the morning. And then Korynne's plan. People seem to have been questioning it, and we have already lynched someone, but there is some useful strategies in here, so use your intuition. We won't hate you for trying  + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2010 12:49 Korynne wrote:
Also DCLXVI, it's KoryNNE not KoryNEE.
rastaban I like the idea, except GF can still recruit when mafia is roleblocked right? So then best case scenerio we find 2 mafia, we end up with this situation of 5 mafia (GF recruits while we sit around roleblocking mafia), hopefully none of which are roleblocker or we're screwed on that plan unless the dream catcher gets roleblocker from another blue. And then us lynching people can potentially out the roleblocker. Or we sit around and not lynch people? That seems like a rather stalemate.
So I don't think that idea works very well... but if we go ahead and pretend there's at least one roleblocker, we can roleblock instead of lynching someone. If mafia doesn't kill that night, we lynch the guy, if mafia does kill that night then we don't lynch the guy. So if mafia wants to get the guy killed they have to sacrifice their night kill to get the guy killed, so basically it would be like us not lynching and mafia nightkilling that guy. I think that's a valid plan. But that requires a roleblocker... so... I don't know how confident we are on that matter. =\
So if we go ahead with this, it means we should pseudovote in this thread, and only vote to kill someone in the other thread when a night kill doesn't happen. And some shameless self-promotion if you really dont know where to start. Assume the more games they've played and how active a player is ups how experienced they are and merge it with the gut feelings you get from this thread. You should be able to generate a solid guess as to what you should do. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2010 13:55 bumatlarge wrote:Fun play makes me a very happy person. I love you darth. On that note, there seem to be very few new players who I have not seen play, but could have been in other games, but I have played with a good amount of the roster. That being said, I put together a list of people who have played together. I know I would like to pick someone I was familiar with. I think if you're mafia with someone, you get in contact a little more with them, and if they are cohesive, it should lead somewhere in this game. Havent gone to fr into it. If you see something I missed, got wrong, or want to go deeper, be my guest. (R) = red role + Show Spoiler +
Game 2: L(R), Chezinu, AFJ, bum
Game 3: chezinu, bum
Ace MWorld: bum, Qatol
Resurrection: zeks, qatol
Game 4: bum, lakrismama(R), Qatol
Game 5: Qatol, bum, zeks
Game 7: Qatol(R), L
Game XII: L, Chezinu
Red Army: L, Chez(R)
Mini Mafia #1: Chez, Qatol
Smurf: lol not going to bother
Mafia XV: Chez(R), L(R)
Mini Mafia 2: L, Chezinu
Game XVIII: L, Chez, Abenson
Red army 2: L, Chez, BM, Abenson, citizen
Game XX: BM, L, Abenson, citizen
Game XIV: BM, Abenson, citizen
Micro: Abenson, citizen
Micro 2: L, BM
WaW: BM, L, Abenson, citizen
Steve Zizou: Korynne(R), brownbear, Abenson
Game 22: AFJ, BM(R), Abenson, Bear
PYPM: BM, citizen, L, Korynne, Qatol (what the hell happened)
3King: L, BM, Abenson, bear (I didnt understand this much...)
bang bang: L, Korynne, bear, chez, citizen(R)
game 26: bum(R), elyas, AFJ, DCL, zeks
game 27: L(R), chez(R), citizen, afj
Team Mini: BM+Chez, L, bum, korynne, yellow(R), DCL+divine, bear
# of times played with (again i probably missed things) + Show Spoiler +
L + Chez = 10(2R)
BM + Abenson = 6
L + BM = 6
Abenson + citizen = 5
BM + citizen = 5
L + citizen = 5
L + Aben = 5
Korynne + L = 3
Korynne + bear = 3
aben + bear= 3
chez + bum = 3
bum + Qatol = 3
chez + citizen = 3
Pretty interesting, but nothing to nail anything something down. Its just to find chains of things for blue roles to use if they hit gold, and for us to put soe method to our lynching if we have nothing. I don't know the state of any of the 'connections' besides my own. From what I gather, L is completely apathetic towards chezinu. Who knows, use this as you will. Kind of suspicious that you left out the best plan.
kind of odd you comment on that then dont include it yourself
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On July 04 2010 05:38 youngminii wrote:
^ Terrible post.
Since we're nearing D2 and we're not concrete on any plan yet, I think we should default to Korynne's original plan for N1 'cause that was discussed the most. The last thing we need is the roleblocker to not read half of this stuff and be confused as to which plan to follow. So it'll be good if you roleblock YellowInk.
If everyone wants to follow L's modified plan I don't think we should do it N1, because it'll cause too much confusion as we're nearing the deadline. And confusion is the greatest tool of scum.
it's kinda like opposite ends of the spectrum, lynch the most inactive player then roleblock the person who makes the largest and most posts, are at least one of them! Makes good sense really cause why randomly try to roleblock a potential red that isnt doing us any harm when you can block one potentially causing confusion
Not that it stops them from confusing anyone or posting more but it can certainly put the spotlight on the person if things go a certain way
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im just too excited waiting for the night actions to go through even though we'll only find out the immediate result of maybe one of them
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That's pretty much all i got out of his posts. I cant see any largely beneficial reason for hitting him unless L's plan is supposed to largely screw over town some how.
Hopefully he wasnt randomly some power role
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you know the more i think about it the more it seems like L's plan benefits red more than town.
Because if our claimed mason is lying we don't know it, only the mob would know. Just seems giving the mob 100% real info while town is only getting info as far as we can reasonably trust doesnt seem as good for us.
So we go on his word that he's a confirmed townie when he could easily be red and why would anyone ever question it, because as soon as a real mason steps out to say something about it they're either going to die, or they're just going to actually give the gf a person not to waste a recruit attempt on. And even if we figure all this out and lynch the fake claimed mason that's just 1 of infinitely many mafia down while a real mason is actually outed and we wouldnt know it to protect for sure until it was too late. Cause none of this stuff can be confirmed without a DT check or coroner after death and why waste a check on a claimed mason as a GF would never be dumb enough to do something like that.
At least i see it as nearly beneficial for both of the masons to stay silent and keep the GF's odds lower on success while maybe pushing for the lynch of the fake claimer?
That's if it's actually fake, while thus far it could be reasonable to assume it's real.
Or maybe that doesnt quite play out like i think it does but hurrah for generating discussion
And if our mason really is a mason why waste any actions on him, since red thinks we're going to protect him they wouldnt waste time trying to take him out since they figure he's going to be safe anyways.
Though i guess there's not much else to use a jailkeeper for unless you're going to be randomly trying to stop recruitment and that has a pretty slim chance of working sooo yeah.
Not that im at this point claiming L to be scummy for the plan, but maybe he could go into more depth how it'd be more useful for town than mob.
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On July 04 2010 13:39 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 13:36 Divinek wrote:+ Show Spoiler +you know the more i think about it the more it seems like L's plan benefits red more than town.
Because if our claimed mason is lying we don't know it, only the mob would know. Just seems giving the mob 100% real info while town is only getting info as far as we can reasonably trust doesnt seem as good for us.
So we go on his word that he's a confirmed townie when he could easily be red and why would anyone ever question it, because as soon as a real mason steps out to say something about it they're either going to die, or they're just going to actually give the gf a person not to waste a recruit attempt on. And even if we figure all this out and lynch the fake claimed mason that's just 1 of infinitely many mafia down while a real mason is actually outed and we wouldnt know it to protect for sure until it was too late. Cause none of this stuff can be confirmed without a DT check or coroner after death and why waste a check on a claimed mason as a GF would never be dumb enough to do something like that.
At least i see it as nearly beneficial for both of the masons to stay silent and keep the GF's odds lower on success while maybe pushing for the lynch of the fake claimer?
That's if it's actually fake, while thus far it could be reasonable to assume it's real.
Or maybe that doesnt quite play out like i think it does but hurrah for generating discussion
And if our mason really is a mason why waste any actions on him, since red thinks we're going to protect him they wouldnt waste time trying to take him out since they figure he's going to be safe anyways.
Though i guess there's not much else to use a jailkeeper for unless you're going to be randomly trying to stop recruitment and that has a pretty slim chance of working sooo yeah.
Not that im at this point claiming L to be scummy for the plan, but maybe he could go into more depth how it'd be more useful for town than mob. This is the most wifomy post I've seen in this entire game. Please, for the love of God, please stop saying that Zeks is a fake mason.
im not saying he is fake
im saying based on the chance he could be fake giving the mob guaranteed info is better for them than giving us uncertain info.
yes if he confirms it we're better off, but most of this god damn game is wifom bullshit i hate that abbreviation
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it doesn't really seem pointless im just asking what the big point of having someone claim mason for us that is so beneficial to the town
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oh shit bum at large saw through my facade
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yeah two confirmed townies sure would be nice, even one would be great
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what are you talking about my comment was entirely sarcastic
you're retarded
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if you thought my town play is bad this game you should look at last game i played town
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i think citizen kind of understood what i was getting at
god damn i hate spamming a bunch of posts together because ideas dont come to me all at the same time of one post
can you explain in detail what my scumtells are? cause im obviously so bad i dont know that the way im posting is scum tells rofl
i understand that people take the noobie level of reading some wifom question as a scum tell in a game that revolves around a wifom concept. The only thing that can be confirmed are the roles of the dead, and maybe some reasonable connections can be made if a dt fingers a gf and we find the dead to indeed be the gf or something
you do realize that
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can you point out all the scum tells or something so i can prevent doing them in the future, and in more games when im town
and im still wondering why it's better for us to have information we cant confirm than it is to give the mafia guaranteed good info
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it's ok bm we can be scum buddies
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On July 04 2010 15:27 Bill Murray wrote:no thx..
ah you're quite right actually
now that youngminii master scum hunter has pegged me certain for death i suppose it's only a matter of time until he pegs my comrades
that or i can laugh at him after the game for how wonggggg he is, now i have to go outside for many hours so hopefully our trusty gumshoe can out the rest of the game and i can stop posting contentless dribble
btw bumatlarge gf!
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On July 05 2010 01:28 BrownBear wrote:
We're going to have to very very closely watch what every single player posts, and the second someone slips up, lynch them. Simple as that.
Honestly, without coroner I think we might be screwed.
there's always the chance he was actually the traitor trying to mess with us and just said coroner
that or we pray we started with 2/lucked out with dream catcher
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im just posting less now cause there's nothing to respond to you silly hater
that and i want other people to actually respond to stuff instead of me responding to your raaaaaaaaaaage
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EPT
