On May 07 2010 10:02 citi.zen wrote: Don't have a tone of time, but I think Radfield is right actually.
##vote DarthThienAn##
Qatol, thanks. You are making me feel better about arguing against you. I never wanted an invention that would keep the SK safe. I wanted something better than the DT kit. I liked JeeJee's proposal of a gun that would not kill townies. You know this. Keep it up though.
Then why didn't you advocate making one even once?
On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it.
On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:
On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:
On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it.
Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept.
Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit?
(I assume rd=red here)
On May 06 2010 08:53 citi.zen wrote: Just invent the rd-only killing machine man. It's a kit + gun in one and cannot easily hurt the town. Could confuse us at most if given to a red, but I like the odds.
On May 06 2010 12:08 citi.zen wrote:
On May 06 2010 08:22 Qatol wrote:
On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:
On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:
On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it.
Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept.
Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit?
Sorry, I totally misinterpreted. A weapon that can kill SK or mafia is fine by me. I'm okay with Bill wanting to make it detonate if that player attacks him as well. But I don't see why it can't be a gun with bulletproof piercing rounds. I guess I'm just arguing semantics though.
You entire stance on this issue is extremely shaky. First you don't want a gun. Then you are OK with it, but would simply make it bullet-piercing (even though that still allows a medic-protected red to live, presumably). Then you are "ok" with the gun detonating if the attacker hits Bill - yet the whole freaking point of the gun is that it CAN ONLY KILL REDS - so if Bill is town making the gun he should have no need for it to detonate, since IT CAN'T KILL BILL ANYWAY.
This is very shaky reasoning about a very simple matter, totally out of character for you Qatol.
On May 06 2010 12:55 citi.zen wrote: Right: Ace, would we be allowed to invent a "device_that_only_kills_when_pointed_at_reds"? Is this game breaking or not?
Anyways, I'll leave this alone until the lynch. We have other priorities.
On May 07 2010 10:05 Radfield wrote:
On May 07 2010 10:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
On May 07 2010 08:22 Radfield wrote: The thing with Foolishness is, it doesn't really matter if he's town or mafia aligned. At some point his CV hits will become a dangerous detriment to the town and we'll have to lynch him just to stay alive. We also have to lynch him before it becomes possible for him and the mafia to make a double hit and gain a huge advantage.
Other than that we keep him alive for the extra kills until we're down to one mafia, then we lynch him. There's just no reason to have a CV with only one mafia around.
or let him be mod killed for not killing...(Is that a bannable mod kill?!)
We could just use that to our benefit....Ya dig?
That's actually not a bad idea, although it really depends on the situation. There may be a time when we simply can't risk him being mafia and getting off a double kill.
Umm Strategic modkill = nono unless Ace is moderating this WAY differently from every other host (which I highly doubt).
On May 07 2010 10:38 DarthThienAn wrote:
On May 07 2010 09:50 Radfield wrote:
Does foolishness always have this kind of attitude? (it doesn't sit well with me, not saying it's scummy. feels like ace, caller, bm, etc.)
I agree, the cast majority of Foolishness' posts come across with a very aggressive tone. That's more metagame than anything pertinent though.
@Darth
Darth, let me be clear, I don't have a solid case against you like I did against Sidesprang. Here is why you strike me as scummy. If you're town you'll hopefully understand my reasoning, if you're mafia you'll know where you went wrong. Some of these points are stronger than others, none of them make any kind of case against you on their own.
You missed the first vote, so did many people, but either way this is not a good sign.
You contributed a lot early on when we weren't discussing mafia at all, and then your activity level plummeted once we got around to lynching and CVing.
You point out a lot of obvious stuff in your early posts. You also do a lot of agreeing without a lot of adding your own suggestions. Lots of 'so what do we do next team', 'lets get a plan'
You call out amnesia and Jspazz as scummy, both flip town.(again, none of these on their own are indicative of mafia on their own)
You did NOT vote for Sidesprang.
you're "inclined to think Scamp is town". And then THREE minutes later you waffle on it after a nothing comment by JSpazz
On May 06 2010 11:53 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town.
On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote: see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by
On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T...
You're more recent posts are not in the Zbot and I don't feel like searching for more. These in a nutshell are why I think you're scum. Because you've talked so much, we would gain a lot of info from you flipping red. Also, the more I look through you're posts the scummier you look...
I missed the first vote because time went fast and I was busy casting for CSL and forgot =[. It happens I guess.
I'll admit that my activity level plummeted quite a bit. Part of the reason is that the weekend ended, so I spent less time on mafia than on the weekend obviously. Once we got down to concrete analysis, I had less to say, and only posted when I DID have something to say. Theorycrafting is easy for me, especially with numbers >_>. Analyzing posting behavior is hard, since I don't know any of you.
I didn't realize that I pointed out obvious stuff and didn't contribute much =[. Guess I'll have to work on that.
I called Amnesia out for being scummy on the fact that he was completely inactive and getting away with it. I called it scummy not necessarily because I thought he was mafia, but because I didn't want people to let him get away if he WAS mafia. I felt that my accusation on jspazz was merited - I mean, Qatol basically said: "let's pick between jspazz and JeeJee" and no one picked between them, so I did.
sidesprang, I've been through several times. I think even those who voted for him could be suspicious. Whether or not you vote on a mafia is not an indication on your alignment, unless you are the one who starts it. Even the second or third person could be mafia.
Again, my position on Scamp is really shaky. There's a fine line between mafia and TOO mafia. I was hoping that someone would analyze what I had said / agree with it, but jspazz throws out a nothing comment that accents my concerns instead - multiple reverse psychologies is possible, after all.
Anyway, lynching me, town'll lose something. But I'll try to help out before my corpse offers you guys information. Any suggestions before I go?
If you can't figure out what that means, please don't post, your thoughts aren't worth listening to at this point.
Yes, please give us your honest impressions of as many people as you can before you die. I will make sure they are discussed after you die.
Opz I know you had a longer post, but I wanted to take care of the quick stuff right now.
You are intent on using semantics to distract from substantive issues.
Semantics: for most townies the SK is no different than a red, in that killing them is good. So whenever I say "reds" I include the SK.
The real issue: JeeJee made the suggestion we create something that was a DT kit + killing weapon that could not hurt the town. I immediately loved it - what townies wouldn't? It's so good, Zona even argued it would not be allowed, that it's game breaking like mafia-finding-bulltets. Yet you argued against it!
Most importantly - you know all this. This is a clear attempt on your part to distort the truth and fool other people in town into looking at me as a suspect. Maybe it will work, but even if it does, you will not look good if something were to happen to me. At any rate, I will now consider you most likely red. Yes, I include the SK under that heading.
##Vote compvig hit Qatol##
And how do you think you're going to look if something happens to me? You have provided a nice diversion for the last day or so, but seriously. You have done nothing productive so far this game. Nothing at all. Hell, your argument doesn't even make sense. Come back when you can actually make a real argument that doesn't have a simple explanation.
Okay, the serial killer is gone. Does that make you feel better about me yet? I'm the only living player that has led us to ANY dead mafia. Now let's just find out what Darth flips so we can make our next move.
Ouch. More fine word-smithing.
For clarity, this is the post where I started the "diversion":
On May 06 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:
On May 06 2010 03:06 JeeJee wrote:
On May 05 2010 23:34 Radfield wrote: I have to disagree with you Citizen, sidesprang was lynched because several things pointed to him being the mafia copycat. The only other real option was him being a very bad townie.
But moving on. JeeJee has information right now that pretty much no one else does.
i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here
Now that sidesprang is gone, JeeJee is claiming that he tried for a role and failed to get it. Which means that someone above him has his role. He also is claiming that whoever that person is, is failing to use it in a pro-town manner. I've looked through the roles, and I really can't figure out which role he could be talking about though. DayVig is the only one that seems likely.
As far as who might have the role? In my mind the options are Opz, Falcynn or Hobbes. Bm and Foolishness have inventor and CV, if Korynne was lying about her pick then Foolishness would have outted her, Qatol is almost certainly telling the truth about trying for CopyCat, and everyone else is dead. Another possibility is that Foolishness and Korynne are both mafia, but I think this unlikely.
So JeeJee, if you truly think that whoever took your role is anti-town, then you should role claim, because you will likely lead us to a mafia. However, I leave the final judgement up to you, no point in outing a pro-town player's role.
you are correct, i probably know hobbes' role now, of course that's still pending whether others have lied but the way the events have unfolded so far, the claims seem legit. i think i probably understand hobbes' strategy now and it kind of makes sense.. we shall see. atm i am leaning towards hobbes being townie so that's where we stand on that issue.
what's the plan with inventions this night? i'm still leaning towards alignment kits. maybe you can get creative and get a gun with special bullets .. if you hit a mafia, they die, if you hit a townie, nothing happens. its like an alignment kit with bullets, whooo
=)
I love the invention suggestion. How can this harm the town? Swift justice + lasting info. Call it... the silver bullet gun. DT kit v. 2.0.
That was the full initial post I made. Then you started to argue with me. You know this. The more you try to pretend this isn't what happened, the worse it looks. This just isn't Qatol-like.
Also, way to take credit for sidersprang's lynching now that Radfield is dead. In contrast to me, who has done absolutely nothing in this game, you actually tried to tell people what roles to pick; and tell medics to role-claim; and Bill to make weaker inventions than the ones other players thought were obviously so strong they could be game-breaking; and you led the charge to compvig johnnyspazz - thanks.
Enough "distractions", as you say.
I still have a problem with a gun called a "silver bullet gun." Don't you? It doesn't have an obvious use that can be determined from its name. How the hell do you know what is Qatol-like? You have never played a game with me. You don't know anything about my play style. And don't try to tell me you have read previous games. They mean nothing when looking at my play style. I probably played the PM game more than just about any player. No more than a third of the posts I was making were actually said by me in the thread. Feel free to ask BC or Ver about it after the game. Yes, I told people what roles to pick so we can hold them responsible for their roles. I've done my part. Have you? I'm not taking full credit for sidesprang's lynch, but go check Radfield's posts. He was crediting me with a big part of the lynch as well. Do you know why? It's because without my copycat stuff, that lynch would not have been possible, at least not by that logic. As for the medic roleclaim, I was worried about lynching a medic. I even backed up on that stance ON MY OWN because I thought it through more carefully and realized we didn't have the time to make it work. And what "weaker" inventions are you talking about? Are you talking about the extra night lives when I wasn't clear on the role? Please do tell. You sure talk a lot of shit and you sure as hell aren't backing it up with any solid comments that haven't been explained already. I'm sick of this. Until you back up your comments with quotes and facts (which have not already been explained), I'm just not going to reply to your posts. You do not have anything relevant left to say. If you are scum, good job pissing me off. However, I think it is a lot more likely that you are just an idiot townie barking up the wrong tree.
I don't know why you think that tone designed to make new players quiver would work, but hey, you probably thought it's worth a shot. In the interest of letting other conversations develop I will stop this.
Amnesia (no idea where he belonged) Radfield Scamp (could be in Group 7, but that is unlikely because Ace moved him + Radfield around together and it relies upon Amnesia being in this group)
JeeJee is cleared by the number theory. Unless the mafia decided to bid 6 6 8 or 6 8 8 (which seems really silly on their part) JeeJee is innocent. Do NOT CompVig him.
Another little odd quirk I noticed which might mean nothing: both mafiosos had a 1 as their second number. There are 4 other (non JeeJee) players who have that number. Myself, Foolishness, Zona, and Hobbes. I don't know for sure, but it might have been that the mafia saw the value of 1 as their second number (because it doesn't move you down a second time). Worth thinking about at least. Speaking of which, where the heck is Zona? The guy hasn't posted in over a day now.
Anyways, back to the groups: Zona/citi.zen, Scamp, Myself, Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, Hobbes/Opz The last 2 mafia are in two of those groups. Opz looks a little better because he cast the deciding vote for darth when we were scrambling to get one. Citizen also gets credit for voting. Korynne does not because the other candidate was Korynne herself. Hobbes picked the wrong horse, but JeeJee vouches for him. I'll trust JeeJee on this for the moment, but I'm still wondering what happened between the two of you to give you this trust. Did you attempt to pick the same role or something?
I'm going to personally go with Scamp for the CompVig hit. He hasn't contributed anywhere near as much as I would have expected him to, and JeeJee is the only player I know for certain I can trust right now. ##CompVig: Scamp##
I think that one thing is a good catch there Qatol....
But...it may just be seeing something that isn't there....But I think this might definitely be important. I think we should comp vig on that idea actually...I think it should be Zona too actually. His choice of 12 (I should probably read qatol's number plan) is a decent number to of tried to get a good early pick.
Also citi.zen I don't know why you're getting on Qatol's case about tone. That post didn't make me "quiver" even half as much as Foolishness' posts do. xP
And yes Qatol I'm glad someone finally points out that I don't really get credit if I'm just voting for not-me. xP People read too much into that.
I'm going to believe for now that Hobbes and JeeJee are in the clear... Otherwise once we clear other things they basically tied the last two mafia together by a rope.
I really don't see how Hobbes and JeeJee are in the clear. They didn't even do anything during the last day phase except vote.
Meanwhile JeeJee's attitude against me is troublesome. All he's been saying is "kill Scamp" with no explanation why and with tunneling persistence. Other people have at least bothered to share their opinion.
On May 07 2010 23:05 Scamp wrote: I really don't see how Hobbes and JeeJee are in the clear. They didn't even do anything during the last day phase except vote.
Meanwhile JeeJee's attitude against me is troublesome. All he's been saying is "kill Scamp" with no explanation why and with tunneling persistence. Other people have at least bothered to share their opinion.
Read my number theory. Or just think about how likely it is that the mafia selected [6][1] [6][1] [8][1] or [6][1] [8][1] [8][1]. That is how JeeJee is in the clear. JeeJee vouches for Hobbes based upon the role selection. I agree he hasn't posted much in the way of reasoning, but I guess he likes the stuff that has already been posted on you?
JeeJee, what are your thoughts about Zona?
On May 08 2010 00:04 citi.zen wrote: After Radfield claimed to be medic protected, the mafia knew for sure he was SK, correct? Is there any scenario under which they would not?
Well if we have a mafia medic and a mafia jack on our hands, then I guess the mafia would know for sure that he was SK, bulletproof, or vet. What I think is more likely is that the mafia didn't know what was protecting Radfield from night hits. What they knew is that they took a shot at him and it was blocked. Then he turned around and found another one of their members. I'm not sure they shot him because they knew he was SK at all, they just didn't want him doing any more mafia hunting.
EPT
I really thought I had a shot at winning this. 2 for 2 on scum hunting makes me feel good though.
