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On April 08 2010 14:31 Elemenope wrote:All I can say is: Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 12:09 citi.zen wrote:
In fact, in this game I'm allowed to vote for myself, so here:
##Vote citi.zen
GG town. rage much? I don't know who to put my vote on. On one hand, we have Caller who has been relatively inactive and seemingly full of scum. Yet with this claim and the night kills up until now, his action does seem to make sense. If he seemed like a viable lynch target, why would mafia bother to hit him if they can get the town to waste a lynch by lynching him? Unless someone wants to directly counter his claim with a Japan claim. Then we have Citi.zen/infund who claimed Paranoid Gun Owner, but then says that the role consists solely of nuke-retaliation, which means the main point around the PGO ability has been taken out - hence, it shouldn't even be called PGO anymore. I'm more leaning that citizen/infund were lying because of that role point. Nikon claimed Veteran, was caught in a lie, and he ended up anti-town. China's ability to launch only retaliation nukes doesn't even seem like a PGO claim at all, I don't see why infund/citizen would claim as such unless it was to avoid night checks which can make sense. The whole nuking thing just seems more of like a nuke restriction, similar to a post restrictions in other games: just to be a hindrance for the person. I'll see what happens though for a bit since a nuke is in the air and we have a bit of time to mull things over.
You are also correct: everything makes sense except for Inf's role-claim. Meeple's death when Caller visited him was a coincidence, as were many other things Caller has since managed to perfectly explain by changing his story every day. Even his behavioral analysis was spot-on every time: I was trying to defend myself by accusing him, even though at that point there were no accusations on me. Not to mention the martyrdom - that's a clear sign of a mafia, as seen in prior games.
So don't bother thinking about any of that - it's cool, just vote. OpZ told you to, and he's confirmed town, right? Just do it - these guys are legit.
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On April 08 2010 15:01 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 14:31 Elemenope wrote:All I can say is: On April 08 2010 12:09 citi.zen wrote:
In fact, in this game I'm allowed to vote for myself, so here:
##Vote citi.zen
GG town. rage much? I don't know who to put my vote on. On one hand, we have Caller who has been relatively inactive and seemingly full of scum. Yet with this claim and the night kills up until now, his action does seem to make sense. If he seemed like a viable lynch target, why would mafia bother to hit him if they can get the town to waste a lynch by lynching him? Unless someone wants to directly counter his claim with a Japan claim. Then we have Citi.zen/infund who claimed Paranoid Gun Owner, but then says that the role consists solely of nuke-retaliation, which means the main point around the PGO ability has been taken out - hence, it shouldn't even be called PGO anymore. I'm more leaning that citizen/infund were lying because of that role point. Nikon claimed Veteran, was caught in a lie, and he ended up anti-town. China's ability to launch only retaliation nukes doesn't even seem like a PGO claim at all, I don't see why infund/citizen would claim as such unless it was to avoid night checks which can make sense. The whole nuking thing just seems more of like a nuke restriction, similar to a post restrictions in other games: just to be a hindrance for the person. I'll see what happens though for a bit since a nuke is in the air and we have a bit of time to mull things over. We're gonna have a few nukes in the air. I'm not letting the mafia weasel their way out and get Caller lynched. Haster and Citizen's arguments are complete shit. You, me, and even caller himself have pretty much decimated each of their arguments....It's a really pathetic attempt. Citizen will probably remove his vote. I will extend until we have a majority. I am not dealing with one of these no lynch situations. I'd have Abenson vote and have it anti-nuked if I he were here.
I salute your air-tight logic. And I vote you for LVP. Unless you are red.
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On April 08 2010 17:19 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
sorry about getting banned guys. apparently there was some rules post in a thread, which i missed because it was in the middle of some page and not bolded or anything. and thus i got upset at ignorance and broke the rules.
big thanks to citi for stepping up and substituting.
I guess the one piece of good news is you did not get modkilled. Good luck.
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You've been in this game too long and at this point your beliefs are based on faith, not reason. You will gobble up any incoherent story people you've decided to trust will spit out.
The good news is this will soon be over - we now have the votes for the lynching.
Have fun - next time maybe try to think for yourselves.
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On April 08 2010 23:55 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 21:00 citi.zen wrote:On April 08 2010 17:19 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
sorry about getting banned guys. apparently there was some rules post in a thread, which i missed because it was in the middle of some page and not bolded or anything. and thus i got upset at ignorance and broke the rules.
big thanks to citi for stepping up and substituting. I guess the one piece of good news is you did not get modkilled. Good luck. Wait am i playing again?
I am not sues it will be for long - these guys have decided to listen to Caller's claim that we came up green so must be red and lynch us. Plus, they don't believe the role changed compared to what Caller told them it was on mafiascum.
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Yeah, just got that PM. As I said, it won't matter, the votes are in, time to rejoice!
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On April 09 2010 01:24 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 00:36 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Really? Damn...So add JeeJee to my vote for Citizen list... of course i would vote for citi.zen look at our track record, the one anti-town player we caught was because his role claim was inconsistent nikon claiming vet -> nuke reflected -> wtf? -> lynch nikon -> anti-town citi.zen claiming PGO -> no abilities -> wtf? -> lynch citi.zen -> ??? for the record citi.zen, if you're going to claim a special role in the future, at least make sure you say you have powers that a townie does not.
ROFL - I wasn't even playing when the claim was made, how ca I have been inconsistent? When I started to play and someone asked, I confirmed that I can only nuke those who nuke me. Thanks for paying attention.
Anyone want to nuke me? I can pretty much guarantee a draw.
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You Sir, are too smart for me.
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This is what you said:
for the record citi.zen, if you're going to claim a special role in the future, at least make sure you say you have powers that a townie does not.
I did not decide to claim anything in this game - I cam into a situation where my role had already been claimed. So thanks for the advice, but it is completely irrelevant.
You guys are too hung up on what you think the paranoid gun owner's powers are, instead of dealing with the serial liars in this game who got you into this messy situation. It is what it is, I don't know how to be any clearer than to tell you again Caller needs to be lynched after I flip China/paranoid gun owner - which will confirm for the nth time he does not have the role he claimed to have.
At the very least promise me you will keep that in mind, since right now you won't listen to reason.
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Also - after Caller is lynched be careful, don't accept too easily arguments as to who was for/against his lynching. Haster for example played in micromafia 1, where Ace told his mafia teammate to bandwagon against him and to defend me early on, to gain credibility. I have no clue if haster is red this time - just don't be too fast to believe he is innocent. Finally, be careful what you assume about the "confirmed" townies. Use reasoning not faith.
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Yup, and I stand by what I said. Just remember that after I flip town.
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Caller is mafia. You I think are just playing poorly but very likely town. The rest I don't not know with any certainty.
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On April 09 2010 04:16 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 04:05 citi.zen wrote:
Caller is mafia. You I think are just playing poorly but very likely town. The rest I don't not know with any certainty. Gonna change your vote? Time's getting pretty close.
Not at all.
My death will demonstrate Caller is lying - since he said he role-checked me and is the insane cop. In fact, I would be suspicious of anyone changing their vote right now. This will offer you information, and perhaps the first confirmed red. My work here is done!
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Here, for your benefit, a parting present:
On April 08 2010 03:43 Caller wrote:
Okay, that does it guys:
I am actually Japan. I have no antinukes left, for the record, because I shot down the one that RoL launched at me. You may be wondering why I was acting all mysterious and suspicious throughout the entire fucking game. That's because I knew that if I claimed Japan and /or made myself not a lynch suspect, I would definitely get night hit and that means I wouldn't be able to figure out if I was insane or paranoid. Which, of course, means that my checks would turn up diddly squat and be completely useless.
We still got this:
Mafia KP is one per night. There clearly are no more than 4 mafia left. Therefore there have to be at least 5 townies. If we hit a mafia every night, we win. SK is dead so KP is down to one for lynch.
HOWEVER: I can now say that I am officially Insane.
Now consider:
I checked citi.zen last night and he came out town. That's right, town. Which means that I am insane and that therefore he is scum.
There's our lynch for today.
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On April 09 2010 04:58 ~OpZ~ wrote:
##Vote Caller
Why are you trying to save Caller by trying to get a no lynch today? Please go back to voting for me to clear things for everyone.
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##VOTE: CALLER
Now we're getting somewhere.
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On April 09 2010 06:41 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote:
With ~OpZ~ and Abenson changing his opinion, JeeJee seems to be most detailed post arguing for citizen lynch. Let me rip his arguments to shreds.
Argument about vote counts
This argument also assumes that entire Mafia players chose to vote for one person three consecutive days. Seriously? I thought the most basic assumption about Mafia voting pattern was that they would try to avoid suspicion by spreading their votes as much as possible. Yes, they were all bandwagon votes, but RoL and Xelin bandwagon had so much steam going into it there was little reason for Mafia to all-in every time. Overall his repeated statement that four of us voted for same person over and over again is WIFOM.
Another specific flaw I found; JeeJee states that four of us created wagon against Nikon when only alternative lynch target was Caller- only for citizen and me to start Caller bandwagon very next day. What? If Caller also is Townie, why wouldn't we have followed the bandwagon suggested by confirmed Townie? Remember you said we are not following the bandwagon that has already formed, but started it. There must be motive for Mafia to start the bandwagon that goes against the argument of confirmed Townie, and therefore draw suspicion later on. If both Nikon and Caller is Townie, it is absolutely illogical for Mafia to continue their bandwagon against Nikon and Caller even when confirmed Townie is strongly arguing for alternative lynch target.
Argument against abilities
If Mafia - Caller in this case because he is certainly Mafia if citizen is innocent - intended to start bandwagon against citizen, they might easily could have chosen to keep their nuke-stealer in check to further incriminate him. Absense of nuke steal proves nothing.
I cannot even understand what you are arguing here. Citizen had his nuke stolen (because immobile three nukes are perfect nuke-stealer target), but cannot say it publicly because it proves his ability cannot NK the people visiting him? Um... didn't we get that verified when Caller claimed to have checked him? I feel like I did not completely understand your point here, so clarification is welcome.
Argument against setup
"all we know is that there isn't five mafia": your entire argument hinges on this argument being true. I can only see you thinking Caller/~OpZ~/Abenson/d3/yourself are Townies, because otherwise I cannot see why you would make such statement with confidence. Let me state this means nothing. If Caller is Mafia he and d3_crescentia are no longer confirmed Townie. If so it is still possible there are five Mafia present in the game. Also, you berate laaan for never "[considering] the point that there might not be four mafia, but less", but did anyone ever express an opinion that there might be less than three Mafia previous to your post?
I have to go momentarily for now, so I'll post my thought about JeeJee's remaining arguments later.
Where were you to further argue with me earlier? I would of preferred that. Honestly I have no idea which of you is mafia. Caller not being mafia pretty much hands the game over to town, right then and there. Almost everyone becomes confirmed. Sounds extremely nice. Now let's see if he's right. Citizen voters and would-be voters:
Iaaan
LMNOP
Caller
JeeJee
I would like this to be noted. I would also like it to be noted all who didn't cast their votes. D3. Abenson, Haster, Myself, Citizen. Let's see where this goes after Caller dies. D3 cast your vote.
Actually I did vote.
On another note, read this bit:
You may be wondering why I was acting all mysterious and suspicious throughout the entire fucking game. That's because I knew that if I claimed Japan and /or made myself not a lynch suspect, I would definitely get night hit and that means I wouldn't be able to figure out if I was insane or paranoid.
So Caller didn't want to be a mafia target. Seems reasonable. Oh wait:
On April 01 2010 11:18 Caller wrote:
Well, gentlemen and woman, my idea of coming clean has been most rudely interrupted.
I am Israel, an Alignment Cop. The reason that I have barely said anything all game thus far is because any country's leader that opened their mouth died in a nuclear fire along with their many innocent civilians, as all can very clearly see. I didn't think there was any need at all for me to endanger my people's republic before my intelligence agency managed to get even one check off, so I figured the best thing to do was to say nothing. If people suspected my people of being conniving Mafia, then all the better, as by hiding among outsiders have the Jewish people survived for this long.
Take notes kids: the way to not make yourself a target is to fake-claim to be a cop!
Comrade Caller is no fool, da?
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1. If you still believe Caller's "I had to lie so I won't get mafia hit so I claimed cop, of all things" claim you need to stop playing mafia. I'd love to hear Caller's defenders explain that one to me.
2. Caller lied repeatedly in this game. Some of you continue to defend him irrationally. I was willing to get lynched to get the lot of you revealed. I still am. Nuke or lynch me. Then lynch Caller and those making nonsensical arguments on his part.
3. A number of you keep pushing the fact that the PGO has the power to kill ANYONE who visits them at night. I repeatedly stated this is not the case. However, Caller et al apparently did not know this. So they did not attempt to steal China's nukes for fear of getting killed. They chose the lynching path instead.
4. I now see the retarded claim that "since nobody claimed Israel or Japan, Caller must be legit". Quite the opposite Sherlock: he can't be two countries at once, so at least one claim is wrong, pretty much proving that the lack of a counter-claim means very little in this game. We don't have a list of countries or roles. Yet you keep bringing this up again and again.
5. The same people who bring up #4 never once brought up the fact that nobody counter-claimed China. That defense apparently only applies to Comrade Caller, not me. Perhaps you'd care to tell us why that is.
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Yeah, what I need to do is talk more here. Me and Caller. Same boat, same thing, same quiet attitude.
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EPT
