On March 18 2010 02:04 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 00:48 Bill Murray wrote:On March 16 2010 11:18 Zona wrote:
Also, I want everyone to keep this in mind when analyzing how people interacted with Malongo.
Since he was inactive, he was an ideal person for the mafia to sacrifice to burnish their own townie credentials. On March 12 2010 16:00 Malongo wrote:So after reading the full thread i just got convinced of some things: A) Balance wise, it is more than likely that one of the runners is mafia. This has happened many times in terms of distribution, for those that doesnt know rol distribution is not completely random. B) Having a mafia in the office is a lot worse this game imo. At least other times/games mafia member in the office was reduced to a)troll the town as long as he could, b) waste any resources given to him. Normally this ends up with a lynch day 2~4 because it gets plain obvious when the mafia official is not doing what he meant when he was running and because theres not that much he can do to hurt the town. However, with 2 KP and noclue setup it is highly unlikely that a mafia official can be spotted that quickly. C) Blues should be running for the office. However this is not completely sure in this case, since Incognito, BC and L are good enough to run even with a less powerful rol /green or vet/ D) Activity is the only thing we can get other than votes to nail mafia. In this case im afraid a lot of players have misunderstood active with "posting". As long as we spam less important stuff it is as if we werent posting. Not trying to be a douche, but please try to be as accurate and put some weight in the posting. This is critical to help the town identify if you are really trying to help or just posting to note that you are not inactive. E) There are various nonvoters up to now. This is scary as hell combined with A. With just 1~3 mafia in this list we are going to get in trouble. 8. johnnyspazz 10. sidesprang 17. d3_crescentia 18. L 21. Foolishness 25. BloodyC0bbler So with all these things im proposing myself to fill one of the spots.
Malongo is Running For Officials
My platform is based on:A) I have a "decent" skill at reading the strategy from the mafia. This has been agreed from various veteran players. Most of the time i work on my own private analisys that i put up when it is better for the town. B) I feel im very valuable at the middle~late game state. I ve came up with some half decent plays like the ghetto checklists, and other stuff from the setup. C) Im a town player in the sense that i ve always tried my best to support the town. If it is good for the town to sacrifice me ill do it gladly.
D) I always come up with this at the begginnig of the game: first day is more than anything a random start, where we cant be sure about anything. If my process is right there is at least one mafia in those 3. That is a high chance that we will put a good mafia player in the office. By adding myself at this stage im giving another chance to the town since it is quite unlikely that there are 2 or 3 mafias running in a group of 4. Thats it. I expect my late run doesnt look really that weird since it is likely that i dont get votes anyways  On March 12 2010 16:12 L wrote:
Oh hey, good of you to join the party.
Did you finally get picked for the mafia team? If not, are you claiming blue by running? Who would you kill if voted mayor and who would you like to get voted in if you can't get in?
Sleep time, but I EXPECT ANSWERS. Malongo admits he won't be getting any votes. If he knew he wasn't going to be getting any votes, and was admitting that there could be 2 mafia candidates out of 4, I have to believe that the real reason he was running was to hide the candidacy of the Godfather, and clear their name. It would be easy to do this through sacrificing himself, which he says in his post that he doesn't mind doing. He is an old veteran, and a lot of veterans have learned that they can get more out of sacrificing theirself with a cool play than staying alive and being wasteful. I feel like this is what he was doing. In this format, he can just say that there's simply no way that the mafia will run 2 candidates. I'm fairly certain he has even said this. On March 12 2010 09:39 l10f wrote:On March 12 2010 09:27 madnessman wrote:
"I originally dismissed L as well for his hoity-toity posting, but after reading his posts more closely, I am pretty convinced he's town-aligned. "... "My personal guess would be that he's vigil/bus driver. "
I also think L is town. Two people trying to make it look as if they have reason to support someone who has had the only red voting for them. They are hopping on the bandwagon blindly... pretty scummy behavior. IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THEIR VOTING PATTERNNeither one of them voted to lynch Malongo AT ANY TIME. One of them voted for Abenson, and one of them voted for ~OpZ~. On March 17 2010 19:26 madnessman wrote:
Where you been, man? Also, l10f, all you've contributed lately is telling flamewheel how he formatted the coloring in his post wrong. (lol). I do realize though that last game, you were a blue and you were awfully quiet as well. But as Zona said before he died (RIP Zona!), keeping quiet only hinders the town in a game where there are no behavioral clues. So post your thoughts on what's going on? On March 17 2010 20:48 l10f wrote:
I like to work with people that I believe are town aligned and experienced and only speak out if I'm called upon or people are doing something that I think is stupid (i.e. lynching redtooth when QS was a confirmed sumiyoshi). Also, how did he know that l10f was going to respond? It's like they have been in on it together. Both of these posts above have been back to back posts, and I feel like they are incriminating even if they do not appear to be so on the outside. I feel as if these two are acting way too buddy-buddy with one another to merit their being green. I feel like they are aligned together on a red team. MadnessMan was horror stricken whenever L didn't get pardoner. Both voted for L with Malongo. The reason they are more suspicious is in the last paragraph, here.
lol wat. I call l10f out on being too quiet, he responds, and all of a sudden I''M mafia?! Bill, I don't see why you keep flinging your terribly flawed logic onto me. IF I were mafia, working with l10f, I would not even mention his name. I would completely refrain from drawing ANY attention to him, especially since he's pretty much flown under the radar, and nobody has heavily criticized his silence. And what makes you think I knew that l10f was going to respond?! I didn't.
On March 18 2010 02:56 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 02:29 Incognito wrote:On March 18 2010 02:27 Versatile wrote:
someone wanna explain the push for the dbl lynch?
oh grand town leaders, with brains the size of peas....ermm, eggplants, uhhh, cantaloupes...yeah.... who are the two suspects you hope to lynch with a dbl lynch? hmmmmmm? Before answering this question, who are your top suspects? Don't you think that given that we get 2 DT checks tonight and have a bunch of fishy inactives we'll find someone to lynch? Did you run out of suspects to lynch now that you can't attack BC anymore? will you stop being an idiot for two seconds? listen. any decent player with half a mind would seriously question BC and how he's decided to play this game. you might not like my methods, but the intent is there. BC is an invincible DT and has played this whole thing scared. he's a freaking invincible DT! do you know what the means? he can take risks. he can act more freely. he could have sown this thing up so long ago it's ridiculous. he played vague, he was uncooperative, and he did not lead the town in the thread. i cannot believe you're surprised at how much i questioned him. a supposed DT mayor who has done nothing to prove it to the town out in public? gtfo. i don't trust all willy nilly. that's how you get screwed, and he didn't prove shyt in the thread. secondly, you're exceedingly narrow-minded for not understand why i have seriously questioned BC. you guys have played this entire thing behind the scenes. that's fine. that was your strategy. however, when you come in the thread and come at me because i'm not on the same page as you, please realize you're being ridiculous. it's like, the equation is (2+4) * (5+6) in the thread so here i am thinking the answer is 66, but there's another part of the equation in PMs that says divide by 2, and i'm supposed to know the real answer is 33? well, dumbass, i don't get where you're coming from because i don't have the all the information you do. so don't expect me to magically come to same conclusions as you. and no, i'm not going to sit back and just trust you know what you're doing because i'm not a sheep. and as a general comment, i don't know how many times this can be said: playing the game in PMs ruins it in so many ways. sure, it's useful in moderation. but seriously. take a look at this thread. this game has been incredibly slow. when information is shared with the town the game is more exciting and more fun for everyone involved. it also gives the mafia a fairer chance, especially in a game that is this much towny favored. it's not about the cool kids table. it's about making this enjoyable for everyone involved, and giving everyone the chance to get better at it. seriously, if you keep writing off some players as stupid or worthless, and don't bother to try to help them learn, the quality of these games will never improve. i've been here for three games and it's the same idiots being tricked by the same idiots and leading the town down the road to hell regardless of what anyone's role is in any given game. oh, and i guess i'll take this moment to sincerely apologize to anyone whose feelings i may have hurt. it's just a game. i attack people's posts and logic because that's what you do in this game. i don't care who's name is attached to the post, so don't take my jabs and jokes seriously, it's all in good fun. now i'm going to go back to trying to find a way out of this game that doesn't get me banned.
I understand why you are extremely frustrated. Last game, I felt bored and out-of-the-loop, because even though there was a LOT of activity in the thread, it seemed like the "town circle" kept a lot of information to themselves, and it ended up to the point that my activity dwindled down to me becoming reaally inactive and didn't put in much effort into my posts, because no one seemed to listen anyways. As a townie again this game, I'm striving to stay focused and active. I DO think there's a worth in us posting publicly in the thread, even if our officials are hiding behind the scenes. Why? Because even though it's really boring that the thread is crawling along at the pace of a snail, it is this that makes it difficult for mafia to slip through the cracks. Also, in this game, every post can be considered, and nothing readily dismissed.
I do agree with you though that BC should have been more forthcoming with information earlier in the game, ESPECIALLY as a protected DT. But it seems that he has pretty much chosen to play this game as a figurehead of sorts, with Incognito as the spokesperson.
With all that said though, I don't think we should dismiss you from being mafia just because you write an angry post. While I am understanding of your frustration, it's posts like these:
On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first.
...that makes you as bad as BC and the rest of them in my eyes. Sure, it was good to push BC for answers, especially when we have all three of BC, Incog, and L claiming blue. But you purely advocate a "hit and miss" strategy, which could have been very detrimental to the town if we chose wrongly. I think that BC should have been pushed to prove himself and be more of a leader to the town, but you do so in a rather ridiculous fashion. "Let's chop off their heads one by one and keep going until one flips red! =D!" Why are you so surprised that people are suspicious of you as a result? You honestly can't blame them. You were so certain that one of BC, Incognito, and L are mafia. Sure, the odds may be high. But can we hear more concrete arguments from you? Can you respond to the quoted post below?
On March 18 2010 01:59 citi.zen wrote:OK. I’ve sat down carefully going through all possibilities with respect to L, BC and Incognito. Having done that, I am now reasonably reassured we're in good shape and can trust BC, at the very least. If BC and the "other DT" live through another night, Incognito looks pretty legitimate as well. Show nested quote +BC, L, Incognito possibilities:
1. All are town. Great stuff.
2. All are red. Highly unlikely. The 2nd DT story must be true, otherwise it’s both unnecessary and very risky (remember, in this scenario we’re assuming BC is red, so that would make 2 “fake” DTs, which would look incredibly suspect to the real DT, who would call them out at some point). Given then that the 2nd DT story is likely true, and they checked sidersprang/L, then L must be GF if red at all. However, it seems unlikely he would choose GF over BC in this case, I just don't see it.
So while remotely possible, it seems extremely unlikely all 3 are red. Finally, if all 3 are red and were contacted by this 2nd DT, the DT would be dead by now. The “other DT’s” blind faith in Incognito is still bothersome, but it would help explain why he chose sidersprang too, using Incognito’s (bad-idea) DT check-list.
3. Two are red, 3rd one is not.
3a. In + BC are red, L is blue. I don’t see this as a possibility: L would know they were wrong about his role (unless they guessed right – highly unlikely).
3b. L + BC are red, In is not. Again, highly unlikely, BC can’t pass night 2 test from In unless he is implausibly lucky.
3c. L + In are red but BC is not. Could happen, but would require L to be GF to pass DT checks.
4. One is red, others are not.
BC can’t be red if the other two are not – he’d have to get hugely lucky on both nights.
If L is red and the others are not, he’d have to be GF.
In could obviously be anything-aligned.
Conclusions:
BC is very likely blue as claimed, in all scenarios. The only shadow of doubt is in the “all red” scenario, which seems extremely unlikely as explained above.
L may be red under scenarios 4 anc 3c, and would have to be GF in both cases. Given the timing of his initial soft-roleclaim this seems unlikely, but perhaps exercise some caution for another night.
Incognito could obviously be anything-aligned, but given the “other DT” is most likely real and still alive, he’s looking pretty blue now as well. I am comfortable voting for whomever you want, unless something goes seriously wrong here.
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On March 19 2010 11:01 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 10:12 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Oh, and I believe we should be expecting a post from L soon, right?
What's the plan, oh great lyncher of Bill Murray. Well, here was the plan; We looked at the abenson votelist and decided that since we had so many people on it that we were suspicious of, that we were going to liquidate the entire list. BM just finished trying to rig votes two days in a row, so he was pretty much a forced kill on our part. Just for anyone watching the game; I've said this before, but one of your jobs as a green player is not to MAKE yourself a blatant target unless you're trying to set up a gambit. If BM was a hatter and wanted to get lynched while claiming mafia bus in pms, for instance, that woulda been a decently baller move. His play, however, was far from that. Tomorrow we're going to double hit another 2, and we're going to have another 2 DT RCs on list targets. We want to vig another. Granted the people that we have claimed from that list, we should be able to basically purge it within a day. For this night, I need to move one of my bombs, we need the DTs to check the right people, and if we have a vig, I need him to give me a heads up. Granted we don't have captain spamalot in the game anymore, people posting solid analysis won't get pushed off the page asap. Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:03 flamewheel91 wrote:
Day 2 Lynch Vote:
madnessman Votes: 0
Iaaan
~OpZ~
Bill Murray
Abenson
Bill Murray Votes: 2
L
johnnyspazz
Abenson Votes: 9
BloodyC0bbler (x3)
Fishball
d3_crescentia
Foolishness
madnessman
johnnyspazz
XeliN
citi.zen
tree.hugger
Zona
Bill Murray
Malongo Votes: 8
Incognito
BloodyC0bbler (x3)
Bill Murray
~OpZ~
Abenson
CynanMachae
sidesprang
johnnyspazz
BloodyC0bbler Votes: 1
Versatile
L Votes: 1
Bill Murray
nemY
~OpZ~ Votes: 1
l10f
nemY Votes: 0
Bill Murray
sidesprang Votes: 1
Iaaan
Non-voters (i.e. those to be modkilled)
Malongo
Voting for the Day 2 lynch is over. Abenson will be lynched. Malongo will be modkilled. Night post coming up shortly. There are a grand total of 9 people who haven't claimed yet. Our top suspects are probably d3_crescentia(DT check tonight), Foolishness, XeliN(DT check tonight) and tree.hugger. XeliN has SUPER inconsistent play. He defends BM, then votes to kill him, for instance. This was noted earlier. XeliN's been on our collective radars since like.. day 2. Foolishness hasn't added a single thing to the town yet, despite piping in here and there; His attempts to defend BM are prematurely ended when he decides that after declaring his point of view that he'd rather just stop getting in the middle of the issue. d3 just doesn't bother posting. at all. Its pretty retarded. tree.hugger same deal. Now, I still don't know who the vig is, but I'm going to outline the people who have claimed to our circle in one way or another. I'm a hatter 2 DTs 1 Medic 1 Vet 2 Bus Drivers I think there's a second medic, but I'm not sure. If that's the case, one of the bus drivers is going to be mafia. If there's no second medic, our drivers might be legit. We're also missing a Vig. The bus driver with shunts left, PM me. The Medic PM me. We need to BREAK OUT SOME DEF tonight. DTs pm me about which of the 2 check targets listed above to make sure you don't fuck yourself. Out of the remaining 9 people, 3-4 are probably mafia. There's likely 1 GF in our system. Now, looking at the numbers: 4 mafia, 13 of us. We're going to lose 2 tonight. Hopefully less. Probably a vig hit too. If we fuck everything up, we go down to 4:10. Double lynch hits wrong again? We go to 4:8. We miss med prots? 4:6. Even at this point, we can still win if we all work together. I can be lynched as a desperation measure to kill 2 mafia, which puts their kp at one. We'd be at 2:5, then 2:4 after. So yeah, we need to be accurate. I need, once again, people looking at specific people. If everyone can put the time in, I'm going to suggest the following:
Go to the first page and look at the player list. Take the next surviving person after you and look through their posting habits, voting patterns and previous game behavior as mafia or town. Post comparisons. We need this information.
What about this plan: we lynch you tomorrow.
On March 14 2010 14:44 L wrote:
Citi.zen, if you feel so strongly about killing me, how's about we kill bill murray today and if I'm wrong, you kill me tomorrow.
Sounds like everyone wins.
You've pulled this shit in 2/2 of the mafia games I've played, and chances are, this game JUST LIKE LAST GAME you're not going to hold up your end of the bargain. I think you should be lynched just based on principle. You can't say shit like that if you yourself are unsure--if there is even a possibility that you could be wrong. I followed you and voted for BM for the lynch BECAUSE you volunteered to be lynched if you were wrong; thus I figured, BM must be mafia because there's no way this guy would say something like that unless he was very very sure that he is correct.
To the rest of the town: I don't think we should be so ready to trust L, just because he has the role of a mad hatter. Sure, he's been saying throughout the game that his role is easily provable. But that's only the case ONCE HE'S DEAD. It's kind of a circular argument: "Vote me for mayor, because I'm blue! But don't worry, my role is provable! But it's only provable once I'm dead, but don't kill me...I'm not mafia! Keep me alive, because I'm blue, and my role is easily provable..." Etc etc.
Tbh, I don't think the mad hatter role is very difficult for mafia to claim. As long as the mad hatter stays alive, his role is unable to be proven. And by claiming blue and saying his role is easily provable, people are less likely to lynch him. Therefore, it's possible for mafia to claim mad hatter--they just have to be willing to take the gamble that the GF won't get killed off early in game. And this is L that we're talking about--if anyone would take this gamble, it'd be him; he's ballsy enough to pull off a stunt like this.
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EPT
