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On February 21 2010 11:05 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2010 11:03 L wrote:On February 21 2010 10:46 meeple wrote:On February 21 2010 10:10 L wrote:On February 21 2010 09:54 Iaaan wrote:On February 21 2010 09:07 L wrote:On February 21 2010 09:06 redtooth wrote:On February 21 2010 09:04 L wrote:On February 21 2010 09:01 redtooth wrote:
ok L is pushing for my death but i'm no good at clue analysis so i can't really find an alternative for the stain clue. but i can offer my somewhat overused WIFOM defense and must say that i am sort of sick of people demanding my head. besides, your clue analysis for me was sort of weak this time.
if you look through the thread i wanted both mystlord and DrH dead. i know these aren't the best defenses but i'm still thinking through the events that have happened. if i'm mafia you guys are screwed anyways because i'm so gosu.
time for some important information. get your pens ready becaaaause:
SugiuraMidori was one of the bodyguards. I'm still trying to think through the reasoning for that but I assume it's to get into a town circle. On that note, the Gambinos are retarded and are trying to kill town. do that later idiots, go kill the other family before they kill you.
i do agree that we should get a double lynch going tomorrow. and unless there is some ridiculous coincidence involving inactivity and a vet or medic, Ver is logically cleared to be vet. you guys are safe with him as far i can tell. if you have any questions or possible scenarios where ver isn't blue then by all means PM me an we can think it through.
also, the scamp lynch is bullshit. he shuts up regardless of his color. treehugger is broadcasting 10000x more tells than scamp. if i have time i'll get you more analysis on his posts. but tonight we can hope mafia goes and kills scamp/johnnyspazz and doesn't pull another night 1. treehugger you are scum. go to sleep.
on a side note, i'll be on now but my activity won't be nearly as high as before. the weekend and first part of this week is going to be busy. So, uh, how do you know that its the gambinos hitting the town? Please be detailed and make it quick. well they wanted to be in the town circle. they gave GF to SM, who's only known to post lists, and put him in BG position. i would assume the only reason why is to get a list of blues and knock them out. and yes i was intentionally being provocative in my last post. That's the wrong answer. You just admitted to being mafia. Thanks. I think I missed something, how does this prove redtooth is mafia? not that I don't suspect him, but I don't see how this proves he is mafia. On February 21 2010 09:12 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I certainly agree.
As for me posting; I've been moving and such so I can only come online when go to my girlfriends house. I really haven't been able to be active that much, but I'm still reading and doing my own clue analysis. But, damn, DrH? I seriously thought he would of been a blue :\ At least I was hoping he was. And what I see here is someone trying to take suspicion off of themselves. Because unless redtooth is mafia, he doesn't know which team has been hitting more town members apart from the 1 hit discrepancy. The manner in which he articulated his conviction basically flat out states that he knows something that he wouldn't know if he was a towns person. Redtooth hasn't even bothered to try to defend himself; the bulk of his argument is that he believed sugi was part of some conspiracy to get into a town circle. Why would he taunt the mafia as town anyways? What's the purpose of this line? I'm still trying to think through the reasoning for that but I assume it's to get into a town circle. On that note, the Gambinos are retarded and are trying to kill town. do that later idiots, go kill the other family before they kill you. Redtooth admits he hasn't thought the situation through, he he's posting from the hip, so to speak. So if he's posting from the hip, why wouldn't he address both mafia teams together and say something akin to: "why are you mafia guys hitting so many townspeople; go hit each other!"? Well, its pretty obvious, he's sumiyoshi and he's taking a jab at the other team because he knows which hits his team is responsible for, and he has a general idea about which hits the other team is responsible for (sans bombs, etc.). Also; Chez was joking and trying to say that if redtooth was mafia that he'd have contacted him? Doesn't seem like it here: From: Chezinu [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: Clues Date: 2/21/10 09:09 Ding Ding ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Was it redtooth? Because he just admitted to being mafia. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Psh, me work with Ver? yeah right! My mystery mafia contact wasn't Ver.. keep trying! Well... that PM is questionable, since I don't think we can take anything Chez says seriously. I do agree that redtooth seems to know things that he shouldn't. I wouldn't mind so much if he said that those were things he thought, instead of stating them as facts. If you think he knows things he shouldn't, vote for him. The only place he'd get that information from is from either being mafia, or by someone who's mafia telling him which wouldn't happen. This is 100% clearcut. People don't drop mafia team names by mistake. ok, I'm surprised no one brought this up yet. If you look, you can see that sug was Gambino. That is a well known fact. I'm slow, please explain what redtooth said wrong. Seriously, this is only a semi-joke.
Because knowing sugi was gambino doesn't imply that gambino are trying to kill townies. It might imply gambino are trying to figure out who blue players are, but even then: why would they be trying to kill them? Its easier to get a list of blues, cross them off your suspect list and go after other people.
Additionally, look at redtooth's phrasing.
I assume it's to get into a town circle. On that note, the Gambinos are retarded and are trying to kill town. do that later idiots, go kill the other family before they kill you. Redtooth isn't saying 'because they put sugi in, I infer that they are trying to kill townies'. He says "On that note, the Gambinos are retarded and are trying to kill town." He doesn't say he thinks they're doing that based on his assumptions, he doesn't say its probable.
He says: "Gambinos... are trying to kill town". How do you know that? You don't. You just admitted you're either Sumiyoshi and know who the Gambinos have been hitting because you know who you've been hitting, or you're part of the Gambinos and trying to take shots at your own team for being dumb.
I mean, disguising a godfather implies you're trying to kill the town? Are you serious chez?
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On February 21 2010 11:30 Chezinu wrote:
"This mafia game works slightly different than the normal ones featured here on TL, so I'll explain it a bit more. First off, the game will feature two mafia families, who have different objectives than the normal game. Each mafia family's objective is to eliminate the other mafia team. They do not have to eliminate the town in order to achieve victory. The town, on the other hand, must eliminate 8/10 mafia from both families in order to win."
Hear my plan!
If redtooth and L are mafia of different teams, then we as town shall hold them hostage! They can not win the game without eliminating the other team completely. If town doesn't vote for either L or redtooth and they happen to be mafia from different team, it is a sure way for town to either get attacked by mafia or win!
Sounds like a good plan if your mafia team has all of the blues co-operating with them, right?
If you think the original votelist for redtooth's been ignored, with you voting for him well before he claimed medic, you're wrong.
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Who cares about all these stupid conspiracy theorr lies, they are not important and distract us from the real task at hand: ensuring both families stay equal in power. Kinda matters because if redtooth flips red, you're heavily implicated.
The first people to vote redtooth are:
redtooth (9)
Chezinu x
Chezinu x
Ver
Ace x
Chezinu
Caller
d3_crescentia x
citi.zen
decafchicken
meeple
d3_crescentia
Ace
Empyrean
Bill Murray
Chez. You. Caller.
Chez has recently been found out as the bathroom shitter mafia. Scamp actually came through and made a fantastic clue analysis to save himself. Is he selling out a fellow teammember who he thinks will live regardless? maybe, but it doesn't matter. Chez attempts to distance himself from you in PMs as I showed earlier, but never really attacks you in the thread despite not being worried about throwing out attacks.
You and caller early on move to protect each other; Caller gets onto your medic list as proof of this. Caller, meanwhile, doesn't act for the majority of the game despite being a good player.
Redtooth and you, similarly, are buddies the entire game through. In the post that I call him out, literally the line after admitting that he's mafia, he basically tells people to slavishly obey you.
Simply put: After DrH had mediocre support, redtooth submits a half-assed candidacy very early. His mafia buddies boost him early in the running, but fearing that he would die quickly if he was not protected (which would subsequently reveal many of his allies on the voting list) he fake claims early and can't be verified.
Is this true? I don't know. I'll be more certain once redtooth dies, but its very odd that you'd attempt to bandwagon tree.hugger, then switch to quickstriker; if you had such good analysis earlier, why the change? If you're sumiyoshi, then you're essentially trying to trade an inactive member of your team to save redtooth and keep heat off yourself.
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So in the span of 20 minutes, 7+ people have voted for quickstriker, and a number of them have removed their double lynch, despite the fact that we have like 6-7 suspects?
That's a lot of votes for a population that should be ostensibly playing SC2.
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On February 21 2010 12:44 Iaaan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2010 12:20 L wrote:Who cares about all these stupid conspiracy theorr lies, they are not important and distract us from the real task at hand: ensuring both families stay equal in power. Kinda matters because if redtooth flips red, you're heavily implicated. The first people to vote redtooth are: redtooth (9) Chezinu x Chezinu x Ver Ace xChezinu Caller d3_crescentia xciti.zen decafchicken meeple d3_crescentiaAceEmpyreanBill MurrayChez. You. Caller. Chez has recently been found out as the bathroom shitter mafia. Scamp actually came through and made a fantastic clue analysis to save himself. Is he selling out a fellow teammember who he thinks will live regardless? maybe, but it doesn't matter. Chez attempts to distance himself from you in PMs as I showed earlier, but never really attacks you in the thread despite not being worried about throwing out attacks. You and caller early on move to protect each other; Caller gets onto your medic list as proof of this. Caller, meanwhile, doesn't act for the majority of the game despite being a good player. Redtooth and you, similarly, are buddies the entire game through. In the post that I call him out, literally the line after admitting that he's mafia, he basically tells people to slavishly obey you. Simply put: After DrH had mediocre support, redtooth submits a half-assed candidacy very early. His mafia buddies boost him early in the running, but fearing that he would die quickly if he was not protected (which would subsequently reveal many of his allies on the voting list) he fake claims early and can't be verified. Is this true? I don't know. I'll be more certain once redtooth dies, but its very odd that you'd attempt to bandwagon tree.hugger, then switch to quickstriker; if you had such good analysis earlier, why the change? If you're sumiyoshi, then you're essentially trying to trade an inactive member of your team to save redtooth and keep heat off yourself. You completely ignored my accusation of you. As active as you are, I'm sure you didn't miss it. One of my points was that if Redtooth flips Sumiyoshi, that you are Gambino. Seems like it could be a little indirect defense, saying that Redtooth being red implicates Ver, when it doesn't really strongly implicate him. You need to respond to my accusation L, you said yourself that mafia shouldn't just be able to cover up accusations. And Ver, you opinion would be nice to, as well as your support of lynching Redtooth and not quickstriker. That said, the reasons to lynch Redtooth and not quickstriker are: 1) The Gambino family will kill Quickstriker 2) redtooth and L are protected from night hits, lynches are the only way to kill them 3) Redtooth flipping sumiyoshi implicates L, we get information from the lynch as well as a death mafia.
The reason why I'm not dealing with it is if redtooth flips green I will have myself killed. I'm gambling that I'm right, and If I am, you need to look at the connections that redtooth has and that other dead players have already made.
Additionally, the clue analysis you have on me is... meager to say the least. Someone walks through a house while looking at things and suddenly he's L? Linking the most common red herring we've had in the game not to me, but to my namesake's opponent's name? Sure, it seems like a very remote possibility, but there's like 5 players with light references which are more overt than mine. Clue analysis isn't about fitting people to clues, its about interpreting clues and seeing who fits into the interpretation. Voting lists? I pretty much railed on mystlord the entire game from start to end, yet you've pinned me as gambino. The list of voters for me? 1 mafia from each team.
But that's all rather irrelevant.
If I'm right, one family has control of the entire game's supply of medics, dts, as well as the huge voting power of the mayoral office when the game is flatlining in terms of activity. This isn't just about redtooth. Its about one of the families having the game locked up already.
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Chezinu spamming to cover shit up. Priceless. In the last page you've quadruple posted twice. You're also pretty much confirmed mafia off that shit clue, so its pretty obvious someone's trying to cover something up, and the only thing that's really been said is my accusation against redtooth.
Lets go over this once more for everyone that doesn't understand what's going on.
If redtooth is mafia, then ver is likely mafia. If ver is mafia, then he's perfectly fine with keeping the teams even because he knows he can outhit the other team due to medic prots on his guys and DT information+blues to rule out on the other side. If that's the case, then lynching Quickstriker is essentially a copout:
1) We don't learn anything about other mafia because QS pretty much hasn't posted: he's been afk the entire time.
2) redtooth keeps his 3 vote bludgeon.
3) If we don't hit a gambino, mafia kp isn't going to change either way, so why the rush to kill an inactive that wouldn't give us information?
If redtooth flips red, we find out that Ver's 11 minute roleclaim was perfectly safe. Why? There was a missing hit, and a bomb, right? Worst case scenario, redtooth claims that he was the one protecting ver and we all go on our merry way.
If I'm wrong about redtooth, I'll happily kill myself tomorrow. If i'm right and we don't kill him, the game is essentially over.
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Alright, I'm hoping that gets activity up.
I'm going to stress once more that people give a look through all the arguments presented in these last few pages. If you have any questions or want to poke any holes in what I'm suggesting, just ask. I'd prefer here in the open, but if you don't want to overwhelm the thread with posts about small details you can ask in pms too.
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On February 22 2010 02:28 Caller wrote:
okay, all the SC2 streams are off. Time to do something.
And that something is this: L, I'm almost 100% sure that you are town. Even if redtooth flips town I don't think there's any reason to lynch you. That lynch would rather be focused on the Sumiyoshi.
Here's what we know so far and what we are speculating (in no particular order):
a) SugiariaMidori was the Gambino GF and was substituted in as a bodyguard.
b) redtooth may or may not be Sumiyoshi because he was a mayoral candidate that got a lot of votes for some reason.
c) Ver is working with redtooth, therefore guilt by association suggests that Ver is also Sumiyoshi.
d) DoctorHelvetica was also Sumiyoshi.
Your argument implies that three Sumiyoshi members are actively taking control of the town, and that they all ran for mayor, knowingly putting themselves in the spotlight. Does that seem likely or reasonable, especially when only two of them at most are guaranteed protection from night hits that will almost assuredly hit this of candidates? Already one Sumiyoshi is dead that was a mayoral candidate. It has been emphasized over and over again that the mayoral candidates have a high chance of having mafia, and in the case where there are two mafia there should be at least two candidates, one from each side.
However, the fact that SugiaraMidori was found as a GF suggests either
a) redtooth is Sumiyoshi
b) redtooth is town
c) redtooth is Gambino and it was a mindfuck
I suggest just exposing the bodyguard list, as I have said multiple times. If redtooth is town he has nothing to fear from doing so. If he truly is mafia we should see that one side would hit the bodyguard list, because if they don't there's no way to kill him. And depending on whether or not we see a Sumiyoshi as a bodyguard, that may tell us whether or not redtooth is truly town affiliated or scum.
Remember, it's not a bad thing for town members to die in this game from night hits, even if redtooth is a medic. The primary job for town is to preserve the balance of power that exists between the two mafia, and whittle each side down until town wins.
I understand that L is afraid that the Sumiyoshi are in control here. But lynching redtooth right off the bat here I feel is too aggressive of a move off a rather sketchy clue (although behavior is certainly fishy). The bodyguard list would do the exact same thing, except we would also get a better idea of the composition of the bodyguard list, and we may or may not prevent a medic from getting lynched when the balance of power is this fragile.
That said, until redtooth agrees to release this list, which I have advocated since like the beginning of the game, I'm going to vote for him. Plain and simple.
Sorry, releasing some list doesn't fix the real problem, and your post ignores chez.
Chez is 100% cluefucked, he voted redtooth. Additionally, your analysis of ver running for office is wrong; Ver never ran for mayor. People just voted for him. If we've seen where the gambino GF went, we also need to think about who the sumiyoshi GF could be.
More importantly, this is a pretty soft post with nearly zero new content, but it seems designed to let you remove your vote from redtooth the moment he releases the list (which tells us nothing :/). If redtooth does flip red, then we kill ver and he flips red, a post like this isn't going to be enough to insulate you from them.
I'm going to say this once more: redtooth blundered and admitted he was mafia flat out to the thread. There's no reason to vote for quickstriker or anyone else.
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This just in: Caller admits to being mafia in pms.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Caller [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: :3
Date: 2/22/10 02:59
in actuality I'm not Sumiyoshi, I'm Gambino -_-
so I really have absolutely nothing to do with Ver or redtooth, other than the fact that redtooth sent me a whole bunch of junk PMs and Ver apparently has control over all the DTs.
I've basically been trying to get myself killed since Day 2 because of SC2, but I at least wanted to help my side before I did so. But seeing as how like a significant portion of town are class A retards that listen to Ver and autovote, I really have no idea what to do. So at this point I'm like meh.
If anything I think redtooth is Sumiyoshi. Really, I do. But do I have any connection to them? None at all.
And I'm actually 90% sure Ver is townie. Sugiara was the only one that our side swapped in. I would assume that if redtooth is Sumiyoshi that he doesn't actually have any BGs subbed in, because mafia tend not to like taking risks-people who play it safe too much is a definite scumtell. And if you're a mafia mayor, there's no need for you to expose more of your group to risk when the other group is after you and will hunt down BGs to do so.
Feel free to post this in the thread, by the way, I'm pretty much bored of how the activity went to shit, etc. I kind of want to be lynched, seeing as how I've never been lynched once in a mafia game -_-
Unless you want to forward people that you think we should hit?
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Original Message:
I'm going to assume you guys have 2 people swapped in and are going to kill the last bg if redtooth dies, but did i at least give you guys a scare?
I didn't realize how smart ver's claim was in light of redtooth's claim until too late : (.
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Original Message:
^_^
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Original Message:
I wasn't 100% certain about you prior to that last post of yours, but its pretty obvious now.
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So, essentially caller's trying to get the town to kill him instead of redtooth, but says he wants to help his side (why would he fucking claim mafia straight up?) and says he's not on redtooth's team (so why would he put himself up as a target?). The exact same play as when Ver tried to chump quickstriker in.
Kill redtooth tonight.
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Plan revealed: You're spamming the thread as per the usual. In 2 pages, you have 2 quadruple posts, a triple post and you've sent me like 3 pms in the last 2 minutes.
You aren't even bothering to talk about lynching redtooth or make an argument, you're just cluttering up the thread. Even Ver himself in this thread goes "we once got fucked as mafia when camlito got like 4 of us, but we responded by killing him, spamming the thread and ignoring it.
How is this any different?
Caller claims he's mafia, you ignore that. You're cluefucked, you say nothing of worth and spam the thread.
So, with that said, lets get back to the topic at hand: REDTOOTH
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So Ver, feel free to address my criticisms of you if you're finally here.
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Also, I figured I should post this quickly:
Ver just sent me this.
From: Ver [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re:  Date: 2/22/10 08:07 Well considering I wasn't here... ----------------------------------------- Original Message: When i said redtooth outted both of you and you didn't reply, you made me confident whereas I was kinda just probing before.
But that's interesting, isn't it? Because the PM in question that I sent Ver was sent off at 9:09 on the 21st.
To: Ver [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Date: 2/21/10 09:09 redtooth just outted both of you. (((((
So when Ver, on page 97 posts the following:
Ver United States. February 21 2010 11:50. Posts 973 PM Profile Quote
Okay I need to make some things VERY clear. First off, double lynch is our trump and should be saved till the very end. With our hatters likely gone the double lynch is the only way we have of fixing an imbalanced power situation (say 5 vs 3). That means we are not double lynching tomorrow, and possibly not even the day after depending on how the kills go. With maf.ia KP this high still double lynching doesn't really do much, but when mafia have only 1 or even 2 kp each, it becomes a lot more useful and more important it is our failsafe in case one family does manage to take a lead
Double Lynching this early only helps the mafia.
....
The PM in question would have been sitting in his inbox unreplied to for over 3 hours. Ouch.
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On February 22 2010 09:45 Versatile wrote:wat?
I promised I'd accept a lynch if town wanted to kill me if redtooth flipped blue.
Pepperidge farm remembers.
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That failed lynch has sucked away all my will to live.
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I suppose we'll let this continue for a bit before springing the trap.
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On February 23 2010 11:29 l10f wrote:
LOL good job laaan. GG. Town should give up righ tnow.
Nah, The time for self pity is over. Time to make a new plan to move forward with.
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On February 23 2010 11:40 Fishball wrote:
Everything else aside, there is only one thing the Town and Gambino Family should do right now: Lynch a confirmed Sumiyoshi, QuickStriker.
Lynching L due to being mad at him won't help us. Unless he is a Sumiyoshi Mafia, we're just digging deeper into our graves.
Right now, the people who have voted for L, are either confirmed Mafia, or prime suspects. If you guys just want to blindly bandwagon this, then I've got nothing else to say.
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What exactly do you think the plan I was referring to was? Now you just done and revealed it to everyone.
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EPT
