EPTMini Mafia 2
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On November 11 2009 12:05 Incognito wrote: Sorry, no Manuel L. Hackson role. Still want in? Sure why not. (I see you are hiding the Manuel L. Hackson role until we start. Smart move: those other chumps won't know what hit them when we get going, right?) | ||
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On December 08 2009 08:59 Incognito wrote: Ok so now we have 11 players. Since it has been a long time since signups began, could everyone who is playing please pm me to indicate that you are still interested in the game? Thanks. The game begins tomorrow (Tuesday, Dec. 8) at 5:00 PST provided that everyone confirms by then. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wait for finals to finish, homeboy. | ||
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Anyways, sup. | ||
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There's nearly nothing to talk about on the first day if no one talks, and we have no mayoral business to vote for. Because of this, and because I like making people post stupid garbage, I propose we go round table and each say who we want to off day one. So far, I've done around 5 minutes of thinking and I'm going to sleep directly after I type this post, so this won't be pretty or eloquent, but here's what I'm thinking so far. 1. RebirthOfLeGend 2. Ace 3. L 4. vx70GTOJudgexv 5. Scamp 6. Zato-1 7. Chezinu 8. nemY 9. HeavOnEarth 10. Vivi57 11. ketomai 12. Mikeymoo 13. Malongo 1) I normally get Ace killed really early. Its largely a barrel of fun and heaps of awesome. I doubt that Ace and I are on the same team because of the roster and the format, so he's probably red from where I'm standing. That said, Ace is probably the only person i'd be able to trust to not play like a sack of dimebags, so if he does turn out to be blue (which seems to be a trend when i kill him), the game would kinda end unless mafia were morans. 2) I hate vivi. RoL's dumb. Chezinu is a gigantic waste of a player, regardless of which side he's on, and nemy hasn't played in a while, and played somewhat subpar last game we were in due to inactivity. Granted that these are all easy "dumb" targets, I'll be extra risk and not pick any of them to see how people react. 3) Of the remaining players, we have Malongo, Mikey, ketomai, heavon, zato, scamp and judge. Scamp and Heavon typically do not post often, so this is the first and last "do shit in the thread or I'm going to push to get you killed warning". Malongo is an above average player, and I honestly don't remember anything about mikey or ketomai. Judge is very good in this type of format. Zato's a bit above average too. $) so what does that mean? It means fucking nothing. This format sucks balls day one, but I'd go with Malongo as my day 1 pick. He's good enough to be placed with mafia as their 'strong' player, but if he dies and flips town, I'll (maybe Ace or Judge too, normally i die night 2 anyways) probably die during the night which leaves both Ace and Judge up. Granted that I assume Incog wouldn't put them both as mafia (because that would be a bit fucked), so at least 1 top tier player is still in the mix even if we miss doc protection and hit incorrectly %) Alternate plan is to kill people who we know are fucking useless and who won't 'fuck up' because they're so fucking inactive. If that's the case, i'd hit nemY first. Not that I hate the guy or anything, but there's some weird fucking 'stupid' sympathy which keeps vivi alive when I try to get him killed and I'm kinda hoping Chezinu doesn't do his standard stupid shit. If he does, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to start killing him day 1-2 in every game he joins until he stops being a moron. | ||
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On January 05 2010 17:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches make for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan. I AM A MEDIC. Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start this game off. Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding. Why? 1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done. That will come on Day 2, but I can be. Second, it allows me to work in the open and play with mafia's head. I can make my own list towards the end of each day and force mafia to play a guessing game as to who on the list I will protect, if I will actually protect anyone from that list, or if it is worth it to try and kill me and will I protect myself. 2) As stated above, it will throw a major wrench into the mafias night-actions. They will not know if they are safe to try and kill me, or one of my targets. They don't know if there are other medics either who can protect me and/or my targets. 3) Mafia is now going to push to get me killed, either very boldly or subtly, via a lynch. This will give us a pool to work with of potential suspects. Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this. If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him. You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers. Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well. Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it. So we have 2 topics of interest now: 1) Medic claim 2) Who y'all wanna kill | ||
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Malongo and nemY, you guys post too. | ||
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Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect. See, I believe you're rather correct when you say there's a guessing game going on, but I don't know why you'd do it in person, rather than through a mouth. Additionally, I don't see why pretending to be a mouth and posting late in the day rather than early would have harmed you or your goals here. So what mindgames are here that weren't here previously? The only real difference in the 'try to dodge the medic list member' roulette is the fact that you've painted a sign on your forehead. While you may have seen this used in the past, the 9 man format doesn't have a godfather, and doesn't have the possibility of multiple medics; the bluff is far simpler to make here, whereas its a massively ballsy move in a game of 9 man to claim doc as mafia; that's why its so powerful there. Additionally, I have further issues; As you note, the timing of this is odd; you can't reveal a bunch of your 'plan' because a bunch of night roles simply aren't able to act yet. I can somewhat waive this on my own because I typically play in the same manner. What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night. How exactly are you going to confirm anyone? The objective elements of your claim are an increase in attention on you, which speaks to a godfather, vet, vig or green role. You most certainly aren't the DT, or a normal mafia member. | ||
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On January 06 2010 05:38 Scamp wrote: That's fine for now. I'll see if you missed anything when I'm not just on a short break. Is the mafia allowed to not hit anyone during the night? Dunno, but its been an option in past games so I dont' see why it wouldn't be here. Even if they can't, a hit on a vet would be pretty much the equivalent, or a claim that a vet was hit would do the same thing. | ||
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Is this starting to make more sense? | ||
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Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification. Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW?HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS. Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo | ||
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On January 06 2010 09:39 Chezinu wrote: Ok, I will not use my usual tactics this game L. I was thinking about changing it up even before I read your post. I just ask of you if you can tone down your language? What language? I'm positively cordial this game, my good sir. | ||
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Look at what Judge has just done. Who's putting blind faith in him?Hey I'm a Medic! this can't be proven or disproved by anyone I have a plan, trust me! why are we putting blind faith in him? Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him. If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good. Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game? I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways. Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF. | ||
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There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. 1) There's a rather large reason. 2) We will be able to find out if he is. Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out. Did the last game have this rule set? Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle.Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace? Normally you aren't so short sighted  . | ||
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I'm going to stay on malongo for now not out of spite for him (he's in mountain time and can't post), but because judge was 2:2 and losing the tiebreaker. Now even if malongo swings on judge to save himself, someone else needs to come out and risk their neck to kill judge. As far as actual GOOD targets, RoL seems like the most lynchable mafia-tell producing person. I honestly don't think you're a terrible player, RoL, but I think your posts this game have been really odd. | ||
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On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote: Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die? Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge. | ||
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On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote: Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game. Oh and argue with RoL too. I find it very odd that given that judge won't be killed that you aren't pressing to get RoL killed, and that RoL, who absolutely hates you, has been toddling around and towing your line. Sup with that, bro? | ||
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On January 07 2010 09:45 Chezinu wrote: there is definitely enough time to switch L...Most people are active right now. the pm's don't lie. K, well, if nemy or Ace switch to RoL, i'd be cool with switching too. | ||
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On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote: how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell. The second part was sarcasm. L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. The convincing argument is pretty obvious; He's a poor player as you've already accepted, his 6 consecutive posts are emotive and generally content poor. If you prefer him dying to malongo, then you'll switch. | ||
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Your first post and this subsequent post set has no real content in it. I really don't see why you wouldn't have posted more during the first round unless you were actively trying to stay under the radar. You might have restricted posting times, but that doesn't explain the lack of volume of content; why a single tiny post? I called you out in my first post, but you actively ignored it. The risk/reward for killing you with your activity is pretty favorable compared to killing judge. If judge is telling the truth, he's going to be an active asset to the town. If he isn't, his influence is going to be checked by me and ace at the minimum. | ||
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On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote: @L: The only person I'd want to see die is Judge. @Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. Well, i'm somewhat the opposite, The only person i'm sure shouldn't die today is judge, whereas i'm flexible on who else we could lynch, hence why I have given you a choice. Its also a nice way of getting information about you, since you're somewhat forced to pick between Malongo and RoL. | ||
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Now this is odd. Where did I say lynch judge over me? where? . So the thing is: you want a volume of post for day1 over nothing? I understand that a veteran like you like to post a lot about some stuff and try to call people out. However you are directly impliying some fake stuff a)I post a lot a the start of the games (this is absolutely fake and checkeable). b) If I try to stay under the radar im not blue (again fake and checkeable). So the thing here is how much are you going to push on your own will against a no contender. I didn't say you wanted to lynch judge over yourself. Other people did. You were specifically called out as my first target to be lynched in my first post when I opened up the first day lynch discussion and you completely ignored it, posted nearly nothing. I really don't give a shit what you 'normally' do. I want people posting. I gave people fair warning, and specifically singled you out. I'm not enamored with the idea of killing you; i'd rather kill RoL. I don't, however, want to risk getting judge killed by switching off and having you and another player swinging to get him killed. | ||
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On January 07 2010 10:22 Ace wrote: L if you're concerned about RoL why isn't anyone else voting for him? (besides me of course) Because they're similarly constrained. | ||
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On January 07 2010 10:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Just to respond to this shit which I have seen mentioned like 8 times. Where the hell does emotion come up in my post at all? I will be as aggressive as I want because I am trying to play devil's advocate in games. Also L, your right. Lynch me I am a bad player. Way worse than Malongo, you or the other 9 people in this game at the moment. Where is the emotion? I don't even need to go back; I've bolded your current post to highlight the emotive content. The sarcasm in the last part is a rather nice cherry on the top. | ||
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On January 07 2010 10:48 Ace wrote: I know L is laughing very hard right now You have no idea. As for how to confirm judge, I'd rather not tell the mafia prior their hit tonight. Once tomorrow rolls around you'll know a lot more. Suffice it to say, you should be smart enough to think of at least 2 methods of confirming him. | ||
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This is the exact mentality any role caller goes for. Lets hope they really really worry about killing me IF I am blue. Feeding into that mentality just gets us more confused down the road because we still have that UNCONFIRMED role caller. I've already told you: you will find out tomorrow. Feel free to kill me if I can't magically produce a confirmation method, because I can. You still haven't said it though L, How do we confirm Judge? There is no harm in saying it. In fact there is less harm in saying it. Imagine if you die without this confirmation plan being revealed? Everyone else is clearly too dumb to realize he can be confirmed. There's PLENTY of harm that can come from saying it. On the other side; that's the rationale of every rolecaller; no shit. That's why people claim in response to being put up for lynch; judge put himself up when he was a 0% chance first day lynch. Think about it. | ||
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On January 07 2010 12:01 Chezinu wrote: one more hour...and no one is yelling...does that mean the mafia are happy with the votes? Yeah, why would you say that if you're the one who threw the deciding vote? | ||
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Yeah, shoulda switched your vote to RoL, eh Ace? | ||
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On January 07 2010 13:31 mikeymoo wrote: He could have tied it up, but I suppose he was worried about someone tipping judge over the top, which would have probably resulted in his death the next day. If judge was town, town would lose 2 lynches and that would largely be ggOkay, I'm sleeping now and have school until 5 local tomorrow. Once I get home I get to witness 3 hours of night phase, so please nobody hop on my ass for being "inactive". I'll try to check in the morning but no promises. Oh well, I guess it's night phase anyway. Also, I don't know why Malongo didn't save himself. What info did we gain from this? Malongo's not mafia, which I suspected. Cool. Am I missing something? | ||
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Can't have it both ways, champ. | ||
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On January 08 2010 08:34 Chezinu wrote: I curious is the mafia are going to attempt to kill me...I'm oh so paranoid! So, I'll be here if you want to talk RoL. I almost wanted to say some other stuff but I resisted... Oh, so my guess was right? RoL was the one that you were talking to in PMs? | ||
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On January 08 2010 09:40 Ace wrote: I like how a long time before that I said killing malongo was a bandwagon move and we should have just killed Judge instead. It's ok though, if I survive tonight there's going to be hell on Day 2. I like how that has nothing to do with picking malongo over RoL, and how there was a bandwagon of exactly the same size thrown at judge which you didn't bother stopping, but rather helped to start.  | ||
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On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote: I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? | ||
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On January 08 2010 10:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: lynch chez. Actually guys lets just hit him tonight. Or I can vigi him in the next night phase. Are you claiming vig? Or are you claiming to know the vig? Either way, this is going to get hilarious REALLY fast. | ||
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On January 08 2010 12:04 Ace wrote: more leadership? lol nice I didn't even know I was a leader yet. The 5 of you that voted malongo off are all top suspects. Especially when ya know, you were the one who started the bs bandwagon and the others hopped on to it with lame excuses. Actually, it was you and RoL that started the bs bandwagon, and we counterwagoned, the exact same activity that you said you were doing. Go check the goddam voting thread. I even gave you an option to change the lynch target and you didn't take it. As for last game; the fact that town didn't follow the plan was expressly not brought up by me because i happened to be mafia and the plan was actually quite a lot better than what you proposed. | ||
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On January 08 2010 13:25 Chezinu wrote: Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches made for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan. I AM A DECTECTIVE. Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start the second day. Other detectives (if you exist), stay in hiding. Why? BLIND FAITH. It is needed. For once trust somebody who you think is crazy for once. What if I really am the detective? What if I found out mikeymoo is mafia? Let me think.... Why else would one abandon the brown? I have seen the light! Never before have this happen! Crazy things happen in incog's world! Last time I visited this world my father Ace betrayed me! This is not a world for brown but of blue! Listen to my words! I truly am the Detective! Mikeyoo is mafia!!! I could not think of any reasonable way to tell you guess im blue. Just look at the statistics. I have never been blue before not once. You think I would ever abandon the brown for any other reason? So I call upon the GREAT LACES to help me lead this town to lynch mikeymoo! Oh jesus here we go. | ||
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Guess i'm bad at reading. | ||
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Gimme a bit. | ||
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On January 09 2010 07:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: lol why do you think everything everyone posts is filled with emotions? You sound like Dr. Phil. Nemy it doesn't make sense to vote for Judge tonight, this lynch is either going to be Mikeymoo or Chezinu. Killing Judge is something you needed to vote for yesterday instead of people voting Malongo like a bunch of retards. Dunno, my doctor phil side probably saw you write two short posts that were 50% in caps and figured that you had something to say, then I read it and noticed that you were trying to trick my doctor phil side, so I had to call you out, like he often does with skanky teens or deadbeat fathers. | ||
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2) What are we going to do today? In order to summarize our situation, I will recap the history of this game in another post. | ||
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On January 09 2010 09:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: L What the hell are you talking about rofl? Where did I post anything in 50% caps? Who am I trying to trick with what? and what did I just get called out on? I swear to god, I really think I have seen you contribute NOTHING for the entire thread. I said I meant nemy in that post. 10/10 for reading comprehension. As for contribution; I've introduced every relevant topic we've talked about thus far. What have you done, by contrast? Lash out in a 6 post spree? Not even going to bother wasting time on your stupidity. ______________ Okay, recap time: Recap time: Day 1: Judge claimed. I told him he was retarded for doing so. RoL/Ace led a charge to get Judge killed. I did not agree with killing him, and we ended up killing malongo because we couldn't switch votes to someone else. During day 1, Judge told me what was supposed to happen today and tomorrow, and I'll be honest; the plan doesn't have holes in it beyond the standard "someone didn't listen" which is what happened. We can run it tomorrow, but if chez really is the DT, I don't think he'll listen to it. Worst case scenario, we trade the DT for the godfather, best case scenario, we probably win the game. Granted judge's prior comments about how powerful a dt/medic combo would be in this format without a roleblocker, I can actually see him attempting to make this trade. That said, there's a slight modification of his plan which removes the possibility of a trade, which I would have presented during the day when it was revealed. RoL and Ace vote Judge, others vote malongo to stop judge from getting killed. An option to switch the kill target is given and passed on. Malongo dies, is green as most assumed. Most importantly, Heavonerth is killed. SOMEONE PLEASE GET A LIST OF ALL HIS POSTS Why is this important? Because it wasn't me, ace, rol, judge, zato or any of the 'content' posters Day 2: Chez claims he's the DT and has checked mikeymoo. People go batshit. Zato claims to be vig. People go double batshit. So we can examine this from two points of view: If you were mafia, how would you react to a bunch of town members claiming? Well, maybe you'd claim too! Throw a wrench into their gears. Alternatively, you could attack the credibility of their claims. This has happened for pretty much every claim thusfar. If you were town and people claimed, what would your reaction be? Well, you can be somewhat angry that a dt and medic 'revealed' themselves, because they would be likely to die, but at the same time given the volume of claims, its likely that some of these claimants are lying, and that one of them is probably going to get protected. But would you assume immediately that they had to be mafia? While one of the claimants might be mafia, it is highly unlikely that all 3 are. Zato is nearly 100% town; if he hits someone tonight, barring a medic protection, we can be certain its him. If someone objects, we kill them both and we net a mafia. Chez is a retard, but we can make sure he's telling the truth by having him check someone else; We can discuss who during the night because I'd rather not have people fishing in PMs to find out the roles beforehand. Judge is probably town too, but even if he's godfather, I can force him to die for no benefit if we go along with his plan. So overall, it seems like mikey is the best shot right now; If chez is lying, we vig him tonight. | ||
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10/10 for misquoting That's why i issued an edit with a new post. As for the rest; you're really not worth the time. | ||
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More importantly, lynch MM first; If chez is lying, we can vig him during the night cycle and both die. If he's telling the truth, then he might be killed during the night by mafia if he really is the dt, and if he isn't, he'll die soon thereafter. There's no reason to kill chez prior to mikey, unless we're certain that chez is lying. So are we certain chez is lying? Is it worth the risk of killing our DT? RoL, i find it kinda interesting how you suggest killing me, but not Ace, given your rationale for killing judge. He's in nearly the exact same position judge is regarding this lynch whereas I'm quite the opposite. | ||
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lynch MM first Emphasis. If we're going to kill either chez OR mikey, this is the way to go. If we have other leads, we can discuss those too. | ||
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I normally vote late. gives me more time to think and gives me more voting information to look at when making my choice. My assumption that we're going to kill mikey or chez, however, is just that; an assumption. I'd rather kill a few other people, but i don't think we'd have support for it. I also don't like switching my vote unlike someone. HO HO HO, I MEANT YOU. :D? | ||
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you get confirmed by death HEY LOOK YOU FIGURED IT OUT. So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time. Nah, the plan was pretty good if you funneled the DT confirmation through someone that was more certain to be green (me for instance, or through zato after his vigi hit goes off, for instance) it essentially pays huge dividends; the only way mafia can fake into it is by risking 2 members. If he's GF, the trade is DT for GF, which is a net plus for mafia because the other two members get off the "dt clock", so to speak, but he never even gets that option if the information is funneled elsewhere: ie through me. Pretty much everything objectively pointed to him not being a medic when he claimed day 1, which is why you should have interpreted the event as someone fake claiming medic for another purpose. Either way, today we lynch mikey unless someone comes up with something better. | ||
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On January 10 2010 10:25 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: You forgot the second part of my post. If you can kill the DT and trade for GF you become in good shape T_T I still don't think this plan clears Judge. The GF only trades for the DT if the information isn't funneled through a green third party. Otherwise, if judge was the GF, put himself up for lynch and dies while funneling his information through another party, he would die and obtain no information besides knowing who the DT's mouth would be. Trading the GF for the DT is a fantastic setup. | ||
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On January 10 2010 13:28 Scamp wrote: Something is wrong here. I just can't put my finger on it, though. L is okay with Chezinu's thoughts, and is relying on someone else to come up with something better. Zato was pretty proactive day 1 then disappeared. Ace isn't mad at anyone day 2, apparently. And RoL is the most active. Something is most definitely wrong. Well anyway even if Mikey and Chez are both townies and we kill them both and the mafia gets one more kill, we'll have 7 people left with 3 mafia. MYLO at the worst. But still, I just can't shake the feeling that there's something missing. I'm not so much 'okay' with chez's thoughts, so much as I think that regardless of if he's bullshitting or not, mikey should be killed first. If mikey is mafia, we don't vig chez. If mikey is innocent, we vig chez. Even if mikey flips mafia, I don't think that clears chez. | ||
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woo, chez is 99.9% legit now Not really. Could have been a sacrifice to gain trust. But hey mikey. That's why we kill the roleclaimer, right? | ||
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Sup Ace :3 | ||
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On January 11 2010 03:26 Scamp wrote: That's it? You dropped off because you didn't have anything to say, and you come back with a medic list of yourself and L? I don't know why people keep including L on their medic list even when he doesn't do anything. Incognito did the same thing the last game I was in. I don't suspect him as strongly as I did the last game but I certainly don't see the unambiguous town-aligned posting. My strongest suspicion right now lies with Ace. Ace was supposed to interrogate those responsible for the Malongo lynch and he made it very clear that he was going to do so, but he never did. So the way I see it he's either mafia or a townie that doesn't care anymore. I don't see a reason to keep him around. I was thinking that either L or Ace has to be mafia, based on the way they're acting. It could be that they're both town-aligned, but they aren't trying to kill each other so I think that option is out. Ace isn't getting himself killed at all, so I'm suspicious. L could be posting just enough to look active and town-aligned, mostly asking easy questions and commenting on plans. Not as suspicious as last game, but certainly not unquestionably town. I'm not posting 'just enough' to be active and town-aligned, I'm the most prolific poster in this game, and I'm driving a huge amount of content. When Chez was originally set up as the fall guy for the claims, I drove to push his target to get killed. I kept judge alive day one because I knew what he was doing. I called out Ace, did most of the analysis on the judge claim, asked questions NO ONE asked prior to me; Why was no one talking about judge's claim prior to my 'why are you guys not talking about it?!' Why was no one talking about Heavonerth's selection for the mafia hit? Why was no one talking about lynch targets day 1. I'll tell you why no one was talking about it; because there are a few consistent posters that posted prior to me opening up the discussions that simply didn't want to talk about said subjects. If there's an active godfather this game, he's likely in that group. I mean, what exactly has anyone else done that puts them above that threshold? I can see a case being made for putting chez on the list given mikey's death, and no one else, really. | ||
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Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you. | ||
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On January 11 2010 15:42 Ace wrote: why would I kill RoL who amazingly was the only other person to call Judge's BS? Anyone claiming Day 1 should be scrutinized because...we've been through this like 5 games already. Especially MEDIC of all roles. Because it was pretty obvious that the only people who would be willing to go so far as to campaign to kill the guy would either: 1) Know he IS lying. or 2) Be fearful mafia. Scrutinizing is fine; I pretty much vomited the fact that he wasn't the medic into the open during day 1. Killing the guy, however, prior to him taking a single anti-town action is way off into crazyland. There's no incentive for a green townie to rail for his lynch unless you were heavily trying to metagame, which wasn't an explanation anyone brought up. People simply talked about prior metagaming regarding early claims. nemY also hung himself this way. Judge and I talked about you either being a vanilla townie trying to trap people with your push against judge, or being a mafia. When you were unrepentant, you kinda sealed your own fate. I'll be honest though, between you and RoL, I was certain one was mafia. I wasn't 100% certain of which, though, which I remarked to Zato when he asked me for comments regarding hitting you. In the end, I think I made a rather large error in my analysis by ignoring the reaction of the legit medic to judge's claim, but it all worked out because chez and zato fucking raped this shit. | ||
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On January 11 2010 16:01 Incognito wrote: I always thought that too until Chez asked if he could publish his info. Then I thought back to RL mafia and remembered that DT's can't speak until the next day begins so I was somewhat confused...it hasn't been too much of an issue before since I don't think anyone has successfully discovered a mafia AND roleclaimed all at once. Is it a problem? Or should this be allowed? Plenty of people have discovered a medic and told a mouth in the same night, then been hit prior to day starting. Happens quite often. | ||
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On January 11 2010 16:49 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: Ace, if my play was so bad, and I was for sure not the medic... why kill me? Let it set in. GG. Exactly. It isn't enough that you think judge is lying. You need to think he's mafia and stands to gain something from lying. Additionally, how could I have been batting blind if my switch from criticism to support was admittedly when judge told me the content of his plan during day 1. What godfather would volunteer himself for a CONFIRMATION lynch and call a huge amount of town attention to himself? If judge was mafia, he asked for a DT check and would be killed according to his plan. If he was godfather, my slight modification to his plan would have removed his trade for our DT and left him essentially self-raped for no benefit. If he was town, we got a confirmed townie pool to claim to. So why would I want to have him killed day 1? | ||
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He gains the fact that the town believes he's a legit Medic If the plan didn't involve him admitting he wasn't a medic post check, then subsequently KILLING HIMSELF you might be right.Unless you think that having enough people believing he was medic to keep himself alive into day 2 was a good trade off for painting crosshairs on his head in the first place. I'd argue that it isn't. How do you know once he's checked whatever he flips doesn't call for the DT to talk up? Oh, it obviously does call for the DT to talk up, but there's a way to prevent judge from being the person that gets talked to by the DT; Make someone else the mouth. Anyways, sleep for me. | ||
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Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that. | ||
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It made no sense to not push to lynch the claimer because it was the most pro-town play at the moment. Wrong. I don't even see how you can say this with a straight face. If Chez was a DT: free kill. If Chez was mafia, we vig hit him the same night. The only reason you'd hit chez first is because you want to kill the DT as mafia. I mean, this was pretty transperant, check the vote list. The reason we've used 'lynch the claimer' in the past was because we had large underground confirmed townie groups in certain games and we wanted to dissuade mafia from faking DT. That simply doesn't apply here; mafia can't trade 1 for 1 starting on day 2 and hope to succeed. Remember from the outside looking in we all came off as pro-town so it doesn't even matter if you get a feeling we agreed. No, you didn't look pro town. Why do you think you three were chain killed? Magic? Clairvoyance? | ||
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But I guess no one noticed the list or took it seriously. That's not really true. The game kinda didn't require us to do any forceful pinning work as town because the moment day 2 rolled around, all our lynches were set. I was going to push to have Ace and RoL killed, then Zato's like "lol i'll kill him for you", then chez ends the game. It was more of an issue of no one needing to promote the list to get the kills we wanted. | ||
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On January 12 2010 16:22 nemY wrote: You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future .Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey. You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move. | ||
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Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. No they aren't. If you aren't terrible, you'd have been able to figure out what judge was from his claim, which leads to reasons for not killing him. No one was confused besides you, because you were the medic. Again, go look at the vote list. Its you and the entire mafia team against pretty much every other voting townie. The ones that didn't vote for either option voted for mikey.Lynching Judge had nothing to do with not liking him, stop making that up. We know he was lying because Day 1 medic claims are almost always a lie or at the very least bad. From a town perspective it made sense to get rid of him. No, it didn't. The concept behind lynching liars is that they create confusion and disrupt the town's progress. In the current instance, the lie pretty much solidified all of the town into a rather transperant group and let us get reads on the majority of players.If we had something alternative, like a mayoral race to talk about day 1, sure you might be right. If we had someone claiming detective so that he could become mayor and therefore not be checkable (LIKE YOU DID) that would be fishy. If someone, however, is making a claim which doesn't benefit him to enact a plan wherein the claimee kills himself, its pretty fucking obvious that he's not mafia. The timing of the claim came nearly immediately, far before mafia is typically able to organize onto IRC or msn, and the claim had no benefit for mafia if it was tweaked a bit. So why would we kill him? You can say LaL all you want, but there's a GOAL to LaL. If that GOAL isn't satisfied, then it isn't useful. Frankly, I've found the rule far more useful as mafia to get you and like 3 other detectives killed on day 1 than to keep the town in working order. | ||
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On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying. Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all. The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible. That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting. You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed. You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1. That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1. | ||
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On January 13 2010 07:46 Malongo wrote: I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling). You didn't at all. I was pretty sure you weren't blue, and I couldn't save judge by getting anyone else killed. | ||
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On January 13 2010 23:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: We never knew his plan, thus we could never know he wanted death. Plus his death would be by like Day 3 or something anyway. In Judge's case, I wanted the confusion and doubt out of the way. As I say, I view lying as a mafia ploy 99% of the time, Judge was the 1% exception. I told you he could be confirmed 100% and also told you there was no way to confirm him using his medic protection or DTs. That would leave him vig hitting someone or being killed as the only methods of confirmation. Why do you think I kept telling you to think about it? Also, your 99%/1% scenario is interesting. So far, every day 1 claim has been 100% town BECAUSE of the risk to mafia garnered by our heavy metagaming of claims. While I understand the prophylactic effect on subsequent games, I rather wanted to win this one because I kinda gave up early on the last one and tried to blow myself up. | ||
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