CptJack farming (superminion-pushed) midlane and pushing out other lanes, whereas Woong wasn't really present in sidelanes to pick up all the farm as much (olaf and Ryze were doing it a lot) - they didn't need MF to become a hypercarry anyway. whereas Blaze was obviously planning for Kog with bloodboil to hypercarry. Shit, MF's build was Cleaver BT - ult-focused.

Innuendo

Belgium616 Posts

January 11 2013 14:37 GMT

#2147

Soo how do we feel Frost will match up against KT_B?

DragoonTT

3398 Posts

January 11 2013 14:37 GMT

#2148

On January 11 2013 23:31 Caphe wrote:
How is Woong 2 level behind Cpt Jack and 4 level Olaf...-_- Also 100cs behind CptJack as well.

Frost had Olaf push top while the team grouped for early objectives, while Woong went with the team. In the midgame, Jack goes to clean pushed lanes for Blaze, while Shy or RapidStar do so for Frost. Olaf also dives further for kills, and hence gets more exp for those than the champs staying in the mid of the teamfight where exp is more evenly shared. Also, Blaze was pushed into their base for ~10 minutes, letting Jack pick up lots of farm while Frost only farmed one lane during the siegeing process, where RapidStar and Shy usually take the farm. Game 4 was a showcase for this. Oh, and also Eve would kill MF 1on1 if she strayed from the team.

Frost's current team setup is pretty similar to how CLG.EU plays, prioritizing Mid and Top over the AD carry - probably due to how S3 changed the roles. Woong and Cloudtemplar lost influence, while RapidStar and Shy get the farm to carry every game.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

January 11 2013 14:38 GMT

#2149

I... don't like the cloudtemplar MVP choice. He was getting caught more than woong!

Alaric

France45622 Posts

January 11 2013 14:47 GMT

#2150

On January 11 2013 23:34 sniperb wrote:
Flame cancelled his shen ult at the last fight.. practically gave Cpt Jack a deathrow.

How do you cancel Shen's ult without outside intervention? Iirc you can't cancel it like Fiddle's drain or Karthus' ult by just right-clicking elsewhere.

Numy

South Africa35471 Posts

January 11 2013 14:48 GMT

#2151

I don't really get the Woong hate from this series. He did his job for the team. He isn't their primary damage dealer or "carry" player. Honestly Cpt Jack had a far less satisfying performance since he is the main man on Blaze but failed to play that way getting caught a lot of times when he shouldn't have.

DragoonTT

3398 Posts

January 11 2013 14:52 GMT

#2152

On January 11 2013 23:48 Numy wrote:
I don't really get the Woong hate from this series. He did his job for the team. He isn't their primary damage dealer or "carry" player. Honestly Cpt Jack had a far less satisfying performance since he is the main man on Blaze but failed to play that way getting caught a lot of times when he shouldn't have.

It's similar to the hate Yellowpete usually gets - AD carries that don't "carry", but play more of a supportive role. We're so used to AD carries getting all the fame for hard-carrying (or dieing trying, hi Doublelift/Aphromoo) that anyone who doesn't can seem like a worthless player on the team. Magnified by the fact that Woong has some shady incidents in his past, making him unpopular especially with American LoL fans.

In the end, it's usually a case of confirmation bias. The whole "Woong gets caught out of position/is a bad player" mindset is so deeply rooted within the minds of casters and spectators alike that anytime Woong dies or misses a kill, it must be due to being out of position or having made another huge mistake - never because the other player is actually skilled. Cloudtemplar probably lost game 1 today single-handedly (he went like 0-8 or 0-10 on jungle Jarvan, making ridiculously useless initiations), and Cptn. Jack got caught off guard way more frequently than Woong, but casters (and most of the crowd here) are far more willing to credit their opponents for this than blaming them for small misplays.

Woong played very solid today - far more solid than his counterpart in any case - yet everything you get when you mention his name is how he missed that shot on Nid (which actually was a two-way situation where Woong just took the wrong option, and had little consequence for the game) and how he got caught that one time.

ihasaKAROT

Netherlands4730 Posts

January 11 2013 14:54 GMT

#2153

Well Woong has a habit of getting caught in places he shouldnt be in. For example, I think it was game 3, he was MF and the full Frost-team went from bluebuff down to tribrush to the tower. Woong was in front with no members of Blaze anywhere on the map. Thats a mistake that you just cant make as an AD carry. (edit: this move killed a few people, instead of the other way around had it been a tanky frontliner) His whole team was right behind him, still he went in first. He does that on a regular basis, and he still does that atleast once in every game he plays. Also he is not as mechanically talented as other carries. For exampke game1, miss a not able to miss Q as ezreal on a 50hp Nidalee. He does that too much aswell.

He just makes little mistakes that can have huge consequenses.

Numy

South Africa35471 Posts

January 11 2013 14:56 GMT

#2154

Cpt Jack made little mistakes to that had huge consequences yet he isn't getting shit thrown at him this series. I don't think Woongs play is really the issue, think it's just hate from S2 finals.

ihasaKAROT

Netherlands4730 Posts

January 11 2013 15:01 GMT

#2155

On January 11 2013 23:56 Numy wrote:
Cpt Jack made little mistakes to that had huge consequences yet he isn't getting shit thrown at him this series. I don't think Woongs play is really the issue, think it's just hate from S2 finals.

All players make mistakes, its just Woong seems to make abit more mistakes :/

Amarok

Australia2003 Posts

January 11 2013 15:05 GMT

#2156

I don't care about TSM. I thought he made a several fundamental errors, though he made some sweet plays too, and generally played ok.

Roffles

Pitcairn19291 Posts

January 11 2013 15:25 GMT

#2157

Thats cause people love Cpt. Jack Sparrow and hate Woongfker. Even if the latter plays relatively well, he'll still get shit on in comparison to Jack.

LaNague

Germany9118 Posts

January 11 2013 15:48 GMT

#2158

there are simply an incredible amount of TSM fans, as i recently experienced in general discussion myself.
So woong just gets heat from those players because of the messed up S2 finals.

He might not look impressive between all those korean top stars, but he isnt really bad

adriftt

335 Posts

January 12 2013 00:07 GMT

#2159

i dunno, woong has his moments but I've watched a lot of frost and I feel like he was actually a solid top laner. but his ad is honestly mediocre. overall their bot lane is good because madlife is god. he does get more shit than he deserves though.

really though, if frost had ambition and cpt jack to go with shy/templar/madlife I'm not sure that team would ever lose a game

edit: I can't wait to see the reaction when KT B finally goes to an international tournament. so far they have been easily the most impressive team to me but I feel like the majority of the LoL community doesn't even know who they are

Nos-

Canada12016 Posts

January 12 2013 07:55 GMT

#2160

On January 12 2013 09:07 adriftt wrote:
i dunno, woong has his moments but I've watched a lot of frost and I feel like he was actually a solid top laner. but his ad is honestly mediocre. overall their bot lane is good because madlife is god. he does get more shit than he deserves though.

really though, if frost had ambition and cpt jack to go with shy/templar/madlife I'm not sure that team would ever lose a game

edit: I can't wait to see the reaction when KT B finally goes to an international tournament. so far they have been easily the most impressive team to me but I feel like the majority of the LoL community doesn't even know who they are

I keep hearing about KT B but I honestly know nothing about them aside from maybe Score, assuming he's even on KT B and I'm not just remembering wrong.