EPTArmchair Champion Design - Page 2
| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
Zanzabar Haberdasher
United States510 Posts
| ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
As a Starcraft site, most of us are familiar with this "balance by ridiculousness"--even beefier units in Starcraft are fragile, and to the newcomer things may seem overpowered (Dark Swarm, Psionic Storm, Spider Mines, and Dark Templar are all commonly complained about), when in fact they are balanced but simply punish players harshly for playing incorrectly against them. I will not attempt to criticize Riot for their lower power-level approach (which has its own merits), but it is worth noting that by eschewing a higher power level, they give up the associated design space (many binary mechanics are simply high-power by nature and cannot appropriately be "toned down" for a lower power-level game--stealth is one mechanic that Riot has had problems with to date), strong skill differentiation (the difference between strong players and weak ones are very clear when misplays are game-losing), and spectator value (powerful overblown abilities like Dark Swarm and Psionic Storm make for exciting games). | ||
|
Niton
United States2395 Posts
On February 12 2011 05:02 Seuss wrote: Would it be crazy, therefore, to suggest that perhaps Riot could design a champion with either terrible or non-existent AP ratios and perhaps provide some semblance of the nice things we are missing out upon? Garen and Xin Zhao (Xin gains it, but at a .4 ratio on his E) are two such champions, and Ashe and Renekton both have no AP damage sources outside of their ults, which aren't anywhere near enough to build a character around. The game could use more champions that gain no significant benefit from AP, since it's really surprising how many of the so-called 'AD champions' have good ratios. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 12 2011 05:22 Niton wrote: Garen and Xin Zhao (Xin gains it, but at a .4 ratio on his E) are two such champions, and Ashe and Renekton both have no AP damage sources outside of their ults, which aren't anywhere near enough to build a character around. The game could use more champions that gain no significant benefit from AP, since it's really surprising how many of the so-called 'AD champions' have good ratios. I mean, in those cases, the champions very clearly are AD champions (Garen's Q and E are AD scaling, Xin has his obvious AS synergy, and Ashe has a persistent on-hit effect and 1:1 AD scaling on Volley). In the case of Witch Doctor, he is played as a babysitter/roamer support champion in DotA. The lack of AP/AD scaling for an equivalent champion in LoL would have to be in place to push him toward a support role rather than an AP carry. Riot very clearly wants its supports to scale off of itemization into lategame though, and they seem somewhat averse to the level/gold-deprived supports prevalent in DotA. Karma's a prime example of this--her only CC is the stupidly weak slow on W--everything else scales off AP and has its utility directly related to that AP--she's clearly designed to need AP sources to scale well. This isn't to say that those roamers/babysitters don't exist, but they seem purely incidental, given the design of those champions (e.g. Janna fits the same mold as all the other early female AP casters--1 AoE nuke, 1 single-target nuke, 1 shield and has fairly good ratios on all of them--at face value, she doesn't seem intentionally more support-y than Morgana, Annie, or Anivia). | ||
|
Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On February 12 2011 05:13 TheYango wrote: The general power level of things in LoL is just lower than in DotA (particularly at low/mid levels, when the fact that DotA champs have higher base damage on abilities is more relevant)--in DotA, things do lots of damage, AoEs are huge, CC lasts a LONG time (even 7-second soft CCs are unheard of in LoL while they are commonplace in DotA). As a Starcraft site, most of us are familiar with this "balance by ridiculousness"--even beefier units in Starcraft are fragile, and to the newcomer things may seem overpowered (Dark Swarm, Psionic Storm, Spider Mines, and Dark Templar are all commonly complained about), when in fact they are balanced but simply punish players harshly for playing incorrectly against them. I will not attempt to criticize Riot for their lower power-level approach (which has its own merits), but it is worth noting that by eschewing a higher power level, they give up the associated design space (many binary mechanics are simply high-power by nature and cannot appropriately be "toned down" for a lower power-level game--stealth is one mechanic that Riot has had problems with to date), strong skill differentiation (the difference between strong players and weak ones are very clear when misplays are game-losing), and spectator value (powerful overblown abilities like Dark Swarm and Psionic Storm make for exciting games). You still have that just to a lesser extend. Cross map ashe arrows and ezreal ults definitely make the game a lot more interesting but I don't think they're ready to jump into higher risk/reward spells just yet. I'm not saying it won't happen but the game isnt at that point just yet. | ||
|
Niton
United States2395 Posts
On February 12 2011 05:30 TheYango wrote: In the case of Witch Doctor, he is played as a babysitter/roamer support champion in DotA. The lack of AP/AD scaling for an equivalent champion in LoL would have to be in place to push him toward a support role rather than an AP carry. I think I misunderstood - you want an ability-focused champion with poor AP ratios so they can have more interesting skills? I think that could be pretty cool, like a Support Ezreal or something. All skillshots or non-focus target abilities with higher than average risk-reward ratios. | ||
|
ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
On February 12 2011 03:38 gtrsrs wrote: puck's ult puck would be a great addition to LoL so would storm spirit fucking get on it riot +1. Storm spirit with blue buff, opppp | ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 12 2011 05:58 Niton wrote: I think I misunderstood - you want an ability-focused champion with poor AP ratios so they can have more interesting skills? I think that could be pretty cool, like a Support Ezreal or something. All skillshots or non-focus target abilities with higher than average risk-reward ratios. Hey, I'm all for having another janna. Super utility without the need to build ap. | ||
|
Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
| ||
|
spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Scaling on utility. The only utility scaling I can think of right now is Randuin's Omen. But how about a slow, like 20% + 1% per 20 AP, capped at +30%. Basically any CC could have its duration scaling with AP or even AD (for example on Alistar). And I bet there are much more awesome ideas out there for this. Then again this would make it so that even more champs want lots of farm. The selection of champs who can give all farm to their allies is already very small. Janna can do it pretty easily, everyone else will regret it sooner or later. | ||
|
barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On February 12 2011 07:25 Ryuu314 wrote: What happened to the blind monk from beta anyways? some ppl think he became udyr, riot's official stance is that the hero got scrapped. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 12 2011 09:12 barbsq wrote: some ppl think he became udyr, riot's official stance is that the hero got scrapped. Some sharp eye noticed that there was an art piece with "Blind Monk" in the name on Maokai art spotlight. | ||
|
Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On February 12 2011 09:12 barbsq wrote: some ppl think he became udyr, riot's official stance is that the hero got scrapped. he was scrapped like many other champions but they may bring back his concept but not his initial skillset. In reality most of the champions that get scrapped are because their skillsets dont mesh well and the skills end up going to other champions which is why people thing he became udyr. It is very likely udyr inherited some of his skills (especially given how physically oriented bear and tiger stance attacks are) | ||
|
Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
| ||
|
Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
| ||
|
puckstop101
Canada132 Posts
spells - Lower IQ - Summons a news host, that makes targetted champion have a 80% chance to stand around and repeat "WTF" for 3 seconds, if it fails effect is switched to any champion around targetted one Make things up - Champion can make a new spell and everyone will belive its a true spell Nerd Rage - Makes all champions rage and mass attack this champion (Ultimete) Bill O'Reilly - Cause the effects of all 3 of the effects above at the same time | ||
|
EffectS
Belgium795 Posts
Such as: Passive: ? Q: Skillshot/Inline stun similar to Lion's stun with minimal damage but stun increase/level (maybe range increase/level aswell) W: Swap skill that can only target friendly units, range increase/level. Can be used to get in range quickly by swapping a friendly minion or to save more important heroes in fights. E: ? R: High damage + mini stun. Increases AP for a short time, this so that players are sorta forced to use it early in fights to get maximum effect from it rather than use it to killsteal. The mini stun is to be used to interrupt ults such as galio and fiddle. | ||
|
Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On February 12 2011 17:56 puckstop101 wrote: Champion Name - spells - Upsmash - Clears all CC effects and does massive AoE dmg to everyone around him Shine - Creates a blue shield which reflects all tower damage taken by Fox onto nearby enemies Laser - Infinite range single shot, low damage, no cooldown, no mana cost Come on! - All players rage quit First thing that came to mind after reading champ name.. | ||
|
Toomper
United States2 Posts
| ||
|
Toomper
United States2 Posts
| ||
| ||
