|
Caldeum1977 Posts
Here are some of the more interesting Hero numbers from the Masters Gaming Arena.
First Picks
- Zeratul - 6
- Leoric - 4
- Johanna - 3
- Kael'thas - 2
- Zagara - 1
Most Banned
- Zeratul - 7
- Zagara - 6
- Kael'thas - 6
- Nazeebo - 5
- Leoric - 5
- Jaina - 5
- Rehgar - 5
- Tyrande - 4
- Malfurion - 3
- Kerrigan - 3
- Johanna - 3
- Muradin - 3
- Uther - 2
- Anub'arak - 2
- Illidan - 1
- Abathur - 1
- Azmodan - 1
- Tyrael - 1
- The Lost Vikings - 1
Most Picked
- Uther - 14
- Johanna - 13
- Leoric - 11
- Kael'thas - 10
- Zeratul - 9
- Jaina - 9
- Valla - 9
- Rehgar - 8
- Zagara - 8
- Muradin - 7
- Nazeebo - 7
- Malfurion - 6
- Tyrael - 6
- Arthas - 6
- Anub'arak - 5
- Illidan - 4
- Abathur - 3
- Sgt. Hammer - 3
- Kharazim - 3
- Tyrande - 3
- Raynor - 2
- Kerrigan - 2
- Sylvanas - 2
- The Lost Vikings - 2
- Azmodan - 2
- Tassadar - 2
- Brightwing - 1
- Murky - 1
- The Butcher - 1
Win Rate
Assassins
- Zeratul - 7/9 - 78%
- Valla - 7/9 - 78%
- Kael'thas - 6/10 - 60%
- Illidan - 2/4 - 50%
- Raynor - 1/2 - 50%
- Jaina - 4/9 - 44%
- Kerrigan - 0/2 - 0%
- The Butcher - 0/1 - 0%
Specialists
- Azmodan - 2/2 - 100%
- Sgt. Hammer - 2/3 - 67%
- Sylvanas - 1/2 - 50%
- Zagara - 3/8 - 38%
- Nazeebo - 2/7 - 29%
- Abathur - 0/3 - 0%
- The Lost Vikings - 0/2 - 0%
- Murky - 0/1 - 0%
Supports
- Brightwing - 1/1 - 100%
- Uther - 9/14 - 64%
- Rehgar - 4/8 - 50%
- Malfurion - 3/6 - 50%
- Tyrande - 0/3 - 0%
- Kharazim - 0/3 - 0%
- Tassadar - 0/2 - 0%
Warriors
- E.T.C. - 1/1 - 100%
- Leoric - 9/11 - 82%
- Anub'arak - 4/5 - 80%
- Arthas - 4/6 - 67%
- Muradin - 4/7 - 57%
- Johanna - 3/13 - 23%
- Tyrael - 1/6 - 17%
Stray Observations- The big 3 supports (Uther, Rehgar, Malfurion) reign supreme right now. All of the other supports were never picked or lost every game besides the single Brightwing pick.
- Leoric is the tank killer. He won 7 games against a Johanna.
- Sylvanas was banned for the tournament day 2 because of a bug with her heroic, otherwise we might have seen more of her.
- Nazeebo and Zagara, though highly contested, had pretty low win rates compared to last weekend's Road to Blizzcon NA/EU Opens.
- Jaina's nerf worked. It put her in a spot right in the middle, and made Ring of Frost a viable pick.
- Combined, all non-Tyrael and non-Johanna warriors had a 73% win rate.
- Tyrael had the worst non-zero win rate, Johanna right above him.
- Tyrande and Kerrigan were both banned more than they were played.
- Kharazim had a disappointing first tournament, going 0 for 3. All the games had him as a solo healer, so maybe we'll see him move into the secondary support like Tyrande.
- Zeratul and Valla had the highest win ratio of assassins, with Kael'thas right behind them. These are the three damage-dealers of choice right now.
|
Holy crap did Warriors ever show up this weekend. More played than assassins, and higher win rates. Korean Triple Warrior Meta showed up strong.
Leoric being a tank killer is no surprise. Very popular in Europe and Korea especially, was awesome to see him step up.
We did get to see Sgt. Hammer, yay! The NA scene gets really stale, really quickly. I'm thankful we got to see some Triple Warr and TL doing strange things. Hammer is just icing on the cake.
BRIGHTWING! <3 MVP didn't even bat an eye at the triple healer ban predicament, just stepped up. Loved it.
Kind of disappointing about Kharazim, but I know there's a lot of thought around Khar being better with a SSS build over a solo heal role, hopefully we can see that tested out because he seems to have a lot of potential but just fell flat with the teams/comps he was played on.
Top bans and picks, pretty expected. Follows the trend of the past major tournaments, at least in NA and EU, so unsurprising there. Still disappointed in Kharazim...
|
|
|
I`m not able to stream anything at the moment so i can`t watch any of the games. But do you have any thoughts on Tyraels performance at the tournament, was the low win rate a fluke or did it seem like the hero didn`t bring enough value to the team?
|
Caldeum1977 Posts
On August 31 2015 06:37 Holloworb wrote:
I`m not able to stream anything at the moment so i can`t watch any of the games. But do you have any thoughts on Tyraels performance at the tournament, was the low win rate a fluke or did it seem like the hero didn`t bring enough value to the team?
I think it was probably a fluke. His single win came from MVP Black who used him in a double warrior comp with Judgement, and I think he's strongest played that way. I know I saw at least one Tyrael go Sanctification as a solo warrior, and I really don't think that's a good idea. 2 of his losses were also by teams who were arguably going to lose regardless against stronger opponents (cog vs TS and VP against MVP), so Tyrael didn't really have any effect on those losses.
|
Too few games to draw any real conclusions imo. But what stands out for me are the low win rates of Johanna, Tyrael, Kharazim and Nazeebo.
|
These sort of statistics are nearly useless.. We have very low numbers where people try to derive conclusions from.. Plus these are i.i.d numbers, it's highly correlated to specific teams. For example the warriors doing so well is just a case of the winning team MVPblack playing more warriors than other teams (and they forced for example TL into a lone Tyrael pick which as expected was terrible).
My personal opinion, which if you'd like you could see in these stats but you could just as easily deny them:
Zeratul and Leoric are clearly the best picks overall. Leoric especially because he works well against many of the other top tanks (johanna especialyl) and in the double tank meta (which TS and TL didn't really like to their detriment imo). Because these 2 are so clearly better I think it's a good idea to ban one of these if you're first pick, if you're second pick and one is not banned i'd advise NOT to ban one of them either so you can get the other at least. If both are banned first though the first pick can move to Johanna (who dominates in the absence of Leoric). As far as supports go Uther is a bit above the rest as divine shield is the only option to effectively save from nasty shit now that Cleanse is nerfed, he should be picked earlier probably than he was. Other supports for example can't do much against themselves being targeted first while Uther can and has his trait (+ his level 20) to counteract it. Many top heroes have some form of regeneration in their kit anyway so uther's lack of sustain is not a big problem (Leo, Johanna, Muradin, Zeratul, Zagara etc. all have good sustain in their popular builds).
Damage dealers are not a huge priority in drafting I feel. Many of them are simply quite close. Zagara and Kael may be slight favorites but it's not a big deal if you get stuff like Jaina and Nazeebo instead, denying damage dealers is not very effective either as running a singe damage dealer is fine: you can run double warrior + melee assassin/abathur or even triple warrior. I especially think TL and TS messed up some drafts prioritizing damage dealers too highly. Most notable: game 3 of TL vs MVP black, TL picks up Nazeebo and Kael (I believe) as 2nd and 3rd and tries to deny MVPblack good DDs. MVPblack simply bans Muradin and goes triple warrior leaving TL to run a terrible solo tank (tyrael this case) and they get crushed.
Overall I think top choices in order now are Leoric, Zeratul, Johanna, Uther and then you pick damage dealers depending on map. But go (or ban) those 4 first because they are much better than others you can get in the same role. Assassins are not in a bad spot but they are too close in power compared to other roles to warrant so much high picks, this was one big flaw of the western picks I think. (or just stupid mistakes like tempo storm picking Johanna instead of Leoric first in the finals vs MVPblack..).
|
When I see triple tank all I see is ETC ! And a pick or ban on Raynor since his level 13 blocks Moshpit. But I just don't think 3 of one type can work well, since the counters to it get really powerful. And from what I saw in the tournament everyone played what they are good at not what would have been good against the opponent. With only a few exceptions that payed out.
|
Ctrl-F "Lili" = "Phrase not found" makes me a sad panda...
It's not that I dislike playing Malf and Reghar, but...it does get a little dull game after game after game
Surprised by the Kharazim stats too, the times I've seen him in HL, in the hands of a good player he can definitely output enough healing to be a solo healer. Maybe it just strongly depends on team comp and opposing comp.
|
On August 31 2015 06:57 Valiver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 06:37 Holloworb wrote:
I`m not able to stream anything at the moment so i can`t watch any of the games. But do you have any thoughts on Tyraels performance at the tournament, was the low win rate a fluke or did it seem like the hero didn`t bring enough value to the team? I think it was probably a fluke. His single win came from MVP Black who used him in a double warrior comp with Judgement, and I think he's strongest played that way. I know I saw at least one Tyrael go Sanctification as a solo warrior, and I really don't think that's a good idea. 2 of his losses were also by teams who were arguably going to lose regardless against stronger opponents (cog vs TS and VP against MVP), so Tyrael didn't really have any effect on those losses.
Thanks for the response!  Tyrael is my favourite warrior to play alongside Muradin, but I almost never got to play him in a double warrior comp in HL, cuz ppl would always object to it. Although this was 4-5 weeks ago around rank 15 so maybe things have changed...
Was kinda hoping that the reworked Sanctification would make it easier to play him as a lone warrior. But around my rank and skill level I would imagine the heroic being even less useful as it requires coordination and ppl to actually stand in it.
|
On September 01 2015 00:24 jubil wrote:
Ctrl-F "Lili" = "Phrase not found" makes me a sad panda...
It's not that I dislike playing Malf and Reghar, but...it does get a little dull game after game after game
Surprised by the Kharazim stats too, the times I've seen him in HL, in the hands of a good player he can definitely output enough healing to be a solo healer. Maybe it just strongly depends on team comp and opposing comp.
This, not seeing Lili in that list was crazy. I think she's easily one of the best healers that can really keep up sustains, malf is great, but the CD on the heal is a killer vs that 2second cd on Pro Toss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
