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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 410

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-01 08:22:04
April 01 2023 08:14 GMT
#8181
On April 01 2023 15:09 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2023 14:01 Manit0u wrote:


Footage from the frontline how UA tanks clear Russian trenches.


Back to WW2. Bring out the Napalm tanks.

As it stands, I've got no doubt it'll be cleared eventually, but that is a hellish slog.


It is, but still it's better to lose some tank ammo than men. Speaking of which, there are some sad stories surfacing, one of the war correspondents reported that one of his friends returned from captivity (UA military personnel) and committed suicide soon after because Russians have castrated him.

It's not de-nazification, it's damned de-ukrainization. Russians trying to destroy not just the country but a nation.

Edit: Another concerning thing is that I see some of the people that I thought I knew from Sweden, US and other western countries who are in full support of Russia, spewing nonsense like Zelensky and all Ukrainians should be killed etc.
Sometimes I really do wonder what's going through people's heads...
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Nezgar
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany535 Posts
April 01 2023 08:40 GMT
#8182
On April 01 2023 17:14 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2023 15:09 Lmui wrote:
On April 01 2023 14:01 Manit0u wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TGjkYjFx2o

Footage from the frontline how UA tanks clear Russian trenches.


Back to WW2. Bring out the Napalm tanks.

As it stands, I've got no doubt it'll be cleared eventually, but that is a hellish slog.


It is, but still it's better to lose some tank ammo than men. Speaking of which, there are some sad stories surfacing, one of the war correspondents reported that one of his friends returned from captivity (UA military personnel) and committed suicide soon after because Russians have castrated him.

It's not de-nazification, it's damned de-ukrainization. Russians trying to destroy not just the country but a nation.

Edit: Another concerning thing is that I see some of the people that I thought I knew from Sweden, US and other western countries who are in full support of Russia, spewing nonsense like Zelensky and all Ukrainians should be killed etc.
Sometimes I really do wonder what's going through people's heads...


None of this is news, sadly. The eradication of the Ukrainian state and its cultural identity has been the more-or-less stated goal of the invasion. And it's just what Russia has been doing for centuries at this point. This is how they operate and they have made no progress from Ivan the Terrible to Putin; it's the same old same old.
Economic incentives have clearly proven to be insufficient to drag them into the 21st century. There is hope that a political change through this war will make progress in that regard, but I have a feeling that it won't. Hopefully the western leaders will recognize that you simply cannot pander to that market without it biting you in the butt at some point when the Russians revert back to their medieval mentality. It seems like the lessons that pretty much every other major nation in the world has learned about the benefits of neo-colonialism has not yet reached the places of power in Russia. Odd, really, considering that China has demonstrated that you can have that economic model AND a dear leader at the same time.

As for why people in the west cheer for them: I have honestly no clue. It's probably a terrible mix of ignorance and malevolence.
There are demonstrations here that are officially "pro peace" but it has people waving Russian flags and people shouting stupid slogans like "Send diplomats instead of grenades". This comes from a place steeped so deep into ignorance that it's really hard to even reason with those kinds of people. They have not even crossed the first hurdle of recognizing that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can make their own decisions.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-01 09:08:24
April 01 2023 09:05 GMT
#8183
I'm guessing people who are anti-west are much more likely to also be strongly anti-Ukraine, because they're more likely to believe Kremlin propaganda. They're not even necessarily pro-Russia, but they do celebrate when a country falls that is relatively or absolutely pro-west. It's similar to communists or fascists banding together (i.e. communists with communists, fascists with fascists) even when they don't like one another - it's unity in a common enemy. I would also guess that this is why Putin has kept using anti-west rhetoric all throughout the war, to pander to that particular crowd.
So the fact that Ukrainians are fighting for survival is, to such people, a non-argument. They believe that all enemies of the west are just fighting for survival, and so Russia must be the same.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5676 Posts
April 01 2023 09:12 GMT
#8184
Funnily enough, both tankies and fascists are flocking to support Russia. ;-)
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11375 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-01 09:43:28
April 01 2023 09:41 GMT
#8185
On April 01 2023 14:01 Manit0u wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TGjkYjFx2o

Footage from the frontline how UA tanks clear Russian trenches.

Huh. That one corner of the field has seen a bit of action. Earlier this week I just saw this same field (I recognize the line of trees plus the dirt berm and the trench where the Russians were hiding.) Only in the other video, the trench was held by Ukrainians and Russians were trying to flank it. Artillery was called down right on the Russians and one time pretty much near the trench to prevent the Russians from taking it. The Russians were then chased away by a pair of tanks, but I guess the trench was later taken as these tanks are clearing it? (Assuming this video is chronologically after.)
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8194 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-01 10:36:58
April 01 2023 10:16 GMT
#8186
On April 01 2023 14:01 Manit0u wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TGjkYjFx2o

Footage from the frontline how UA tanks clear Russian trenches.


Wait, is this the same trench from the last video, where 3 Ukrainians held off a Russian attack (with tons of shelling, and MBTs that came in towards the end)?

edit: Ah yeah, I see from Falling above that it is indeed the same trench. Man that position has seen a lot of action

edit2: For anyone interested in the previous attack

Part 1

Part 2
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-01 13:06:26
April 01 2023 11:49 GMT
#8187
On April 01 2023 19:16 Excludos wrote:
edit2: For anyone interested in the previous attack


Yes, what I posted above is indeed part 3 of this video. I believe part 1 and beginning of part 2 is when 8 Ukrainians in a trench defended against 30 Russians. Russians came out on top but lost like 20 men in the process.

Edit:

And this channel has videos of drone unit working with artillery (English captions available).

Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-01 13:27:46
April 01 2023 13:27 GMT
#8188
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 01 2023 13:42 GMT
#8189
--- Nuked ---
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
April 01 2023 19:45 GMT
#8190
I'd like to take a look at it but the site is very laggy for me unfortunately. Could someone provide a few of the most relevant numbers perhaps please?
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 01 2023 20:15 GMT
#8191
--- Nuked ---
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3360 Posts
April 01 2023 20:19 GMT
#8192
If you are more data oriented there is a summary sheet available:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bngHbR0YPS7XH1oSA1VxoL4R34z60SJcR3NxguZM9GI/edit#gid=0&range=B417

Just keep in mind that the list is likely a little biased since Russia doesn't document as much as Ukraine does.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11933 Posts
April 01 2023 20:32 GMT
#8193
The big thing to note is that these are battlefield losses. You usually have large amounts of mechanical/maintenance losses as well. Things that gets shipped back for major overhaul and broken down for parts instead.

On top of that it is unlikely even Ukraine gets a picture of all battlefield losses and then reports it.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
April 01 2023 21:16 GMT
#8194
These are some big numbers. Thanks! Also interesting how much was captured. Gotta wonder how much of that comes from the major counter offensives.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 02 2023 01:43 GMT
#8195
--- Nuked ---
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
April 02 2023 08:55 GMT
#8196


Ukrainian counter-offensive cancelled due to weather (waist deep snow, upcoming heavy rainfall).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5676 Posts
April 02 2023 09:50 GMT
#8197
Cancelled or postponed?
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
April 02 2023 10:01 GMT
#8198
On April 02 2023 18:50 maybenexttime wrote:
Cancelled or postponed?


The current counter-offensive in the Bakhmut area was called off. Will it be restarted in the same area or somewhere else entirely in the future is anyone's guess.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-02 11:06:33
April 02 2023 11:06 GMT
#8199
Alcohol consumption is causing excess deaths mainly among Russian troops. Meanwhile outdated war doctrines from old Soviet days keep creeping into Ukrainian tactics.

https://www.msn.com/de-at/nachrichten/other/geheimdienst-bericht-putins-soldaten-trinken-sich-zu-tode/ar-AA19nn7q?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4cd6e4c2d20b4ac488458b5d17034cfa&ei=19

Sounds like a good reason to keep training soldiers, not just in the use of weapons but also in general modern warfare.


Regarding the postponed Ukrainian counter-offensive: something similar also happened during the battle of Stalingrad. Russian generals postponed their counter-offensive at least once, it was delayed by several weeks.
Fortunately Russian advance in Bakhmut has slowed down.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8194 Posts
April 02 2023 11:35 GMT
#8200
On April 02 2023 20:06 Magic Powers wrote:
Alcohol consumption is causing excess deaths mainly among Russian troops. Meanwhile outdated war doctrines from old Soviet days keep creeping into Ukrainian tactics.

https://www.msn.com/de-at/nachrichten/other/geheimdienst-bericht-putins-soldaten-trinken-sich-zu-tode/ar-AA19nn7q?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4cd6e4c2d20b4ac488458b5d17034cfa&ei=19

Sounds like a good reason to keep training soldiers, not just in the use of weapons but also in general modern warfare.


Regarding the postponed Ukrainian counter-offensive: something similar also happened during the battle of Stalingrad. Russian generals postponed their counter-offensive at least once, it was delayed by several weeks.
Fortunately Russian advance in Bakhmut has slowed down.


Yeah, there's a reason Ukrainian soldiers are being shipped across all of Europe to receive both basic and specialised training atm. A pretty big portion of Norway's military budget is being spent on Interflex, and we're also bringing a bunch of them over here afterwards for teamlead, marksman and medical training
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