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On January 14 2024 18:50 Magic Powers wrote:
Since I refuse to watch any of the footage Hamas uploaded, I'd like to ask if someone has a SFW summary/explanation of some or all of the available footage? If so, could you please provide a link?
A pure text form summary would also suffice.
I saw some of the tamer stuff day 1 and promptly decided to not see any more. There are articles about it if you google but be warned even text is pretty traumatising.
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On January 14 2024 23:22 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2024 18:50 Magic Powers wrote:
Since I refuse to watch any of the footage Hamas uploaded, I'd like to ask if someone has a SFW summary/explanation of some or all of the available footage? If so, could you please provide a link?
A pure text form summary would also suffice. I saw some of the tamer stuff day 1 and promptly decided to not see any more. There are articles about it if you google but be warned even text is pretty traumatising.
Right, that's what I expect. That's why I want to only access it in the most censored form possible. But maybe it can't even be censored enough to make it SFW. In that case I wouldn't be interested.
Edit: I've found a number of articles and I'd say Cuddly didn't exaggerate. Even the mildest and most factually dry reporting in pure text form of just a handful of Hamas' crimes is hard to get through. And I'm not unfamiliar with some of the darker sides of the internet.
I won't be posting links, anyone who's interested can look up the information. The major news sites including NYT have reported on it.
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On January 14 2024 18:46 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2024 17:39 stilt wrote:On January 14 2024 12:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 14 2024 10:56 stilt wrote:On January 14 2024 08:36 Mohdoo wrote:On January 14 2024 07:23 stilt wrote:On January 14 2024 04:09 WombaT wrote:On January 14 2024 03:15 stilt wrote:On January 13 2024 08:55 JimmiC wrote:
And for those of you that keep bringing up how Israelis must support the bad blah blah. How come you are giving all the Palestinians a pass on what Hamas does? Should we just start talking about the genocidal actions and talk as what the Palestinians want since Hamas is way more popular in Gaza than Bibi is Israel?
The double standards are so blatant. Since when did Hamas commit a genocide ? And what are you talking about ? The rightful wish of palestinian people to have the fascist colonial state which is mass murdering them expelled ? Israeli society as a while supports this slaughter and the colonization of west bank. Even the "left-wing opposition" does. But you can talk about the so called babies in the oven and other israelis bs as much as you want but that's boring like every medias are parroting them. Hamas themselves happily and openly admit that their aims, if they could practically achieve them go far beyond liberation and right into genocidal intent. To deny this goes far beyond any skepticism of media narratives and straight into the ‘choose your own adventure’ school of unpicking the realities of the world. Where did hamas commit genocide then ? By thoughts ? They have psychic power or is it on your own "unpicking the realities of the world" ? Calling this kind of desesperate operations which we saw during the course of history "genocidal" is absolutely insane. That's curious because all I am seeing in this region is agonizing palestinian children... I am surely biaised thanks to my close proximity with lebanese community (my best friend is a christian woman of palestinian ascendance) but really, it's pretty hard to justify this operation by pointing the so called genocidal intent of hamas when they are a bunch a youngsters in adidas pants holding ineffective rockets and rpg against one the most modern army in the world which have plenty of politicians who are talking nicely about ethnic cleasing or throwing a nuclear bomb on Gaza and civilian population which are coming to endorse the slaughter. But yes, ofc I live in my own world and the medias didn't lie about the numbers of isaeli casualties or crimes of Hamas. How fascinating it is by the way, to see how children are quiet while dying, I would have thought before they would scream and so on bjt no, I guess I should thank Israel to educate me on how agonizyng bodies react. Wait where in the world is this quiet while dying thing coming from. There’s of course plenty to unpack, but others have already requested clarification. Maybe it would be easier to just ask this: in your opinion, what happened on October 7? Who did what and to what extent? You seem to have immersed yourself in this situation so I imagine you have a well defined mental model of the gist of what happened. What happened isn't the result of an ideology but the conditions of the palestinian people. Hamas could have been ecologist, communist, nationalist, such violence will have erupted anyway. You're Khamas stuff is just a way to paint islamist super vilains in order to justify a policy only based on mass repression and murders rather than eliminating the condition of emergence of Hamas. As the conditions of subsistance of Hamas remains because your only answer is mass repression, this is indeed a war on the palestinian people and basically a genocidal logic as the point is to bombard them so much until the conditions are so harsh they lose any kind of humanity. May I ask if you are familiar with the videos Hamas posted on telegram? It sounds like some of the things you are saying didn’t happen are things that were publicly shared by Hamas in the moments/days after October 7. I don’t encourage you to watch those videos because Wombat wasn’t being hyperbolic when he described his reaction to the content of the videos. But I do encourage you to determine for yourself whether or not Hamas posted videos of the event on telegram and the general events shown in the videos. I have not met an ecologist who behaves in that way, but perhaps I’ve just been lucky. May I ask what exactly is the meaning behind “Khamas”? I have seen this phrasing used in random comments and I suspect it has some sort of meaning because it would otherwise be an abnormally common typo. Since it sounds like our views differ significantly, may I ask what you see as the best path to peace at this moment? I am not asking you to define some grand solution. It’s just that since we differ so strongly I’m genuinely curious what your general view of solutions to the current situation would be. No idea what seeing Hamas massacre would change the fact this is not a genocide nor it has been exagerated. For peace, well, I am seeing the same as everyone else, a massive slaughter and dezhumanisation. Only the israelis have something to propose as the others are weak to the point there are at their mercy. The hypothetical solution have to begin with the récognition of a palestinian sovereign state, a commission of justice/reconciliation about the numerous crimes commited, the end of colonization, the build up of strong economic ties so they will at least give the palestinians something to lose and a plan for the end of gaza's blocus. Stopping the destruction of palestinian cimeteries for the one who aren't protected by unesco and stopping of making touristification of the ones who are being transformed as touristic place rather than a place of commemoration and grief. Massive compensation for the exilees in lebanon and a push to give them citizenship of their current country of residence might be a good idea as well even if it will screw the religious balance of the country. Prosecution of settlers/soldiers who are committing crimes. Won't ever happen without external pressure which... won't ever happen. I guess International sanctions should hurt israel way more than Russia but the usa and the west is a firm ally of Israel. I will disgress of this part, but the worrying part is a large chunck of the french far right have a decent chance to pass the election. And their views are pretty medieval : they love the reference to the crusaders to repel and attack the horde of muslims (reconquête is the name of the second major far right party, the one of zemmour). And basically there are now a sort of leapfrogging effect between the 3 rightist parties (even the supposed moderate one) which will sput more and more xenophobia while embrassing Israel's model to deal with the muslim population and emigration. European far right is not the american one, it is far worse, the general discourse has never been this violent while a far right which is trying to whitewash the collaborationnist legacy has never been closer to be elected. And as much as I have been anti islam in this forum or elsewhere, I am not for Israel method on my own citizen. I don’t disagree with a lot of this but equally there is an ideology underpinning this, and unfortunately it is rather Islamic in basis. The majority of my adult life since 9/11 I’ve been railing against the largely baseless Islamophobia that has come in its wake. But Hamas are absolutely religiously motivated zealots. It’s not all their motivation of course, and they are shaped by conditions too. Equally they’re not the IRA, or an ETA, the former not exactly being popular amongst Brits here that I know, indeed I have a close family member whose husband they killed in a bomb so it’s a topic we skirt around, as I have certain sympathies for that cause. But the IRA largely didn’t go around massacring civilians, and when their broad goals were achieved they (largely) gave up arms. It certainly helped that the likes of the US interceded, which is lacking in the Palestinian cause. Hamas have, and if they had the means, would engage in wholesale slaughter on a regular basis. As much as I (I believe correctly) worry and bemoan the rise of the far right rhetoric, inflamed with religious bigotry all across Europe, equally it doesn’t serve my left wing sensibilities to over compensate and whitewash what Hamas is. One can still have broad Palestinian sympathies and want a resolution to their very legitimate issues without crossing that particular Rubicon,
An ideologic lecture of it seems a pretty rightist approach if you ask me, the ideological component can explain why islamist structure resist way better to the western pressure than pan arabism or arab nationalism but it is a super lazy and convenient approach to explain a lot of phenomenas whether there are from middle east or elsewhere. The hezbollah case which is presented as "a bunch of nutjob funded by Iran and that's all" is a good example of that. While these views are not wrong, they are extremely reductives as they actually mask the reasons of the hezbollah' success which are the unsolvable political problems which the southern lebanese populations are stuck in. But rather than trying to adressing it or just discussing it, the narrative will always be only about iran+ nutjobs, it's pretty convenient as it totally absolves Israel and the LF which are our allies in the country.
I don't know much about ira history but the point of an insurgy group is to make the cost of the occupation too high, not being popular among the civil population of the oppressor group isn't a concern.
Insurgent groups in extreme condition have always targeting everyone and everything. I could quote mandela on that but I suppose you get the idea : indians scalping american civilian to chinese guerilla slaughtering japenese civilians, tiger tamil and so on, that's the sad nature of an asymetric conflict, the hereros got nice enough to spare the children and women but it didn't prevent the germans to do yet another genocide. The war could be cleaner if both opponents have the same tools but giving f35 to the palestinian isn't really at "l'ordre du jour" so...
You're talked about sth that concerns you, I would do the same. In Algeria which affected my family like every single french family, the fln targeted civilians and what was the justification of one of the woman who participed in these operations ? "Well I lost my relatives as collateral damages in your unjust war, why should we be clean when you are dirty ?" She then got extensively raped and tortured by the french army.
As for my perspective, I would have had some empathy toward the million of "pied noir" who lived in the land for 80 years for some of them. But in reality, they lived there because a quasi genocide was commited, the conquest of algeria by the french was pure barbarism. They lived in a stolen land based on a apartheid system which forced hundred and thousand young frenchmen to murder and get murdered in an unjust war. They attempted a military coup against the republic, were full of racism and so on, now their legacy is triomphing so in the end, fuck them as a whole group. I am sorry for the losses they provoked, not the ones they suffered as they put my country in to shame.
Btw a lot of argument I read here and everywhere else actually were already used during the algerian war, the genocide one especially, "the fln would commit a genocide if they could and so on". Maybe they intended too but they never ever were close to get in position for it so it doesn't matter. A negociation happened and overall considering how shitty the war was, things got smooth for the french colons (not the harkis but that's another story, the father of my childhood buddy saw his own dad being murdered in their house by the algerian resistance)
Anyway, I point out you use the israeli sources which are on the same scale as the baby murdered by iraqis in yemen (do I whitewash iraq invasion of Yemen too ?) or the weapons of mass destruction. Not taking for granted the discourse of a fascist and colonial state which is murdering a bunch barechested dudes who are weaving a white flag while pretending to respect the laws of war seems to me the right course of action.
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On January 15 2024 00:59 JimmiC wrote:
Just to repeat, these guys are not freedom fighters, nothing redeems their actions, they are Nazi level awful.
Yup, would be a shame if we were so horrific to the people of Gaza that said people became enraged enough to refuel Hamas' ranks. Well it would be a shame for me, no doubt it's exactly what Bibi wants.
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On January 14 2024 23:50 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2024 23:22 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On January 14 2024 18:50 Magic Powers wrote:
Since I refuse to watch any of the footage Hamas uploaded, I'd like to ask if someone has a SFW summary/explanation of some or all of the available footage? If so, could you please provide a link?
A pure text form summary would also suffice. I saw some of the tamer stuff day 1 and promptly decided to not see any more. There are articles about it if you google but be warned even text is pretty traumatising. Right, that's what I expect. That's why I want to only access it in the most censored form possible. But maybe it can't even be censored enough to make it SFW. In that case I wouldn't be interested. Edit: I've found a number of articles and I'd say Cuddly didn't exaggerate. Even the mildest and most factually dry reporting in pure text form of just a handful of Hamas' crimes is hard to get through. And I'm not unfamiliar with some of the darker sides of the internet. I won't be posting links, anyone who's interested can look up the information. The major news sites including NYT have reported on it.
Ya, I don't think it's possible to find a SFW (or even SFL) breakdown considering how much of the violence of Oct 7 was sexual in nature. Not to mention all the dismemberments and other extremely graphic forms of murder.
People from the cleanup crew have literally died of cardiac arrest just collecting the bodies and whatnot. And these are people from an organization (Zaka) that regularly deals with the aftermaths of gruesome car accidents and such to collect all the body parts for proper burial.
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On January 15 2024 02:37 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2024 01:58 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 15 2024 00:59 JimmiC wrote:
Just to repeat, these guys are not freedom fighters, nothing redeems their actions, they are Nazi level awful. Yup, would be a shame if we were so horrific to the people of Gaza that said people became enraged enough to refuel Hamas' ranks. Well it would be a shame for me, no doubt it's exactly what Bibi wants. They both fuel each other, while pretending to be enemies.
Terrorists and Western Conservatives. A tale as old as 2002.
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On January 13 2024 02:26 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2024 02:14 JimmiC wrote:On January 13 2024 02:01 Gorsameth wrote:On January 13 2024 01:50 JimmiC wrote:The Israelis put forward the beginnings of their case today. Here are some highlights. “When the cannons roar in Gaza, the law is not silent,” Noam said. “This has been the case since 1948.”
On Thursday, South Africa’s legal team alleged that Israeli leadership had demonstrated “genocidal intent,” pointing to statements made by top officials. But Noam said Israel has no tolerance for statements calling for harm to civilians in Gaza and that the Israeli justice system could consider them to be incitement. Noam said an order by the court asking Israel to halt hostilities in Gaza would lead to a “perverse situation” in which Hamas would continue to attack citizens of Israel, hold about 136 hostages in the Gaza Strip and prevent displaced Israelis from returning to their homes. It would also set a precedent, he said, in which militant groups like Hamas turn to the international court for protection. “Yes, there is a heart wrenching armed conflict," Noam said. "But the attempt to classify it as genocide will turn an instrument adopted by international community to prevent horrors of the kind that shocked the conscience of humanity during the Holocaust into a weapon in the hands of terrorist groups who have no regard for humanity or the law.” The German government has come out strongly for the Israeli. Germany’s government said there is “no basis whatsoever” for an accusation of genocide against Israel at the International Court of Justice.
“We know that different countries assess Israel’s operation in Gaza differently,” government spokesperson Steffen Hebestreit said in a statement Friday. “However, the Federal Government firmly and expressly rejects the accusation of genocide that has now been made against Israel at the International Court of Justice.”
Given Germany’s Nazi history, Hebestreit said the German government “sees itself as particularly committed to the Convention against Genocide.”
The convention is a “central instrument” for preventing future crimes against humanity like the Holocaust, he said. “We firmly oppose political instrumentalization,” Hebestreit said. I hope they have more because none of the points you highlighted actually do anything to deny the claims of ethic cleansing. The notion then Hamas cannot be fought without reducing Gaza to rubble is simple bullshit. Of course they has more, it’s going to take months. You would really hope SA has more as well. How would you suggest? Because this is a question I’ve probably asked 10 times with the only response being that you can’t and Israel should just stay in its borders and defend. Apologies if this has already been discussed, but is there a reason Israel can't send in insertion teams covertly?
Great question.
When people say that Hamas is a "terrorist organization" I think it calls to mind Al Qaeda and a dozen guys hiding in some cave. Hamas is not a dozen guys. Hamas is the governing body that oversees a 2+ million citizens. They have ministries, mid level bureaucrats, the works. They are lacking one or two technical qualifications to be a country, but for most intents and purposes, they are one. Besides for which, they have at least several thousand soldiers who invaded Israel on Oct 7, and they claim to have some 17,000 soldiers total.
With that in mind, imagine another smallish country. How many people would you have to take out to destroy the government of that country? I'm not sure that question really has an answer, because a government apparatus is massive and most top level officials have someone similar who replaces them if they die. Now imagine taking out an entire government covertly. It's simply not possible. Maybe you could take out a few people before word got out, but before long, you'd be facing the entire armed forces in any case.
The only way to externally institute regime change is to go to war until the other side gives up and surrenders. There are of course internal ways to change an undemocratic regime, like a popular revolution or a coup d'état. I have some earlier posts about how those could be encouraged as alternatives. But given Israel's goal of "removing Hamas," the only external way to effectively achieve that is a full war.
Once you are going to war in an urban environment, it is virtually impossible for all civilian buildings to stay in tact. Any intelligent defender would garrison every building more than a couple of stories tall for a defensive fortification with height advantage. Even 5 soldiers garrisoning an otherwise empty apartment building could take on 100 attackers, assuming everyone is just using small arms and trying not to hurt the building. Hamas, does in fact garrison every building they can. Israel could throw their troops into the meat grinder as simple infantry and die 20 to 1, but they value the lives of 100 men more than the structural integrity of an inanimate building, so they drop a JDAM on it instead.
Given all that, there is the alternative of just leaving Hamas in power, as an evil that is less than what it might take to get rid of them. I think before Oct 7, the vast majority of Israelis would agree that just leaving them in power would be preferable to war (especially given Hamas' outward show of becoming more moderate). Oct 7 changed that. Besides for Hamas showing their true face, it destroyed the idea that Hamas was too inept to actually hurt Israel. One reason Hamas publicized all their own atrocities was to advertise their success to the whole region, to show that they can in fact cause serious damage to Israel. No one living in southern Israel can sleep safely knowing that Hamas is still in power and that they can and will commit another similar atrocity at the next possible opportunity.
As an outsider, you may still prefer over a thousand Israelis dying in a massacre every once in a while to an all out war, but it's not reasonable to expect Israelis to feel that way. Imagine if the country next door to you invaded and slaughtered 1,000 of your countrymen. Would you say at that point "full country to country war is a lot more devastating than 1,000 deaths, so let's just let our neighbors remain with their current regime and move on"?
Edit: I realize some of this is outside the scope of your question. I'm just also addressing some other concerns I've seen on the forum while I'm writing.
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Taking the risk that October 7 could repeat would be the ethical thing to do for Israel. There are various reasons.
Practically:
1) Israel's security apparatus didn't take the threat of Hamas seriously. This gave Hamas easy access into the country.
2) The Re'im music festival accounts for about 30% of dead during the attack. This could've been prevented partly or even entirely.
3) The IDF has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Hamas cannot seriously threaten Israel's existence.
4) Moving forward, Israel's security apparatus will be on full alert 24/7 for as long as Hamas is in power in Gaza.
All of these reasons combined make a repeat of the death count on October 7 practically impossible.
Morally:
The Israeli leadership as well as a significant number of Jewish citizens are aggressors. Their methods differ, but they treat Palestinians as completely worthless. As long as Israelis can't prove that they follow better overall ethics than Palestinians do, they don't have the right to claim they're acting in self-defense any more than Palestinians do.
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On January 15 2024 18:19 Magic Powers wrote:
Taking the risk that October 7 could repeat would be the ethical thing to do for Israel. There are various reasons.
Practically:
1) Israel's security apparatus didn't take the threat of Hamas seriously. This gave Hamas easy access into the country.
If 1,000 people were slaughtered in the neighborhood next to yours, would you feel comfortable if the army of your country just said "we'll try to pay more attention next time. I'm sure that'll make all the difference."?
2) The Re'im music festival accounts for about 30% of dead during the attack. This could've been prevented partly or even entirely.
I'm not sure what you suggestion is here. People in the south of Israel shouldn't have music festivals? They should just always be afraid of leaving their homes?
3) The IDF has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Hamas cannot seriously threaten Israel's existence.
My point here is not about the existence of Israel. It's about the safety of the people of Israel. Oct 7 didn't destroy the country, but it certainly wasn't great for the thousand plus dead and the hundreds taken captive. People deserve to not have the possibility of another attack like that looming over them always.
4) Moving forward, Israel's security apparatus will be on full alert 24/7 for as long as Hamas is in power in Gaza.
No security is perfect.
All of these reasons combined make a repeat of the death count on October 7 practically impossible.
If only 500 die next time, would that make you feel safe living there? 100?
Morally:
The Israeli leadership as well as a significant number of Jewish citizens are aggressors. Their methods differ, but they treat Palestinians as completely worthless. As long as Israelis can't prove that they follow better overall ethics than Palestinians do, they don't have the right to claim they're acting in self-defense any more than Palestinians do.
The music festival was about peace. A lot of the people on those kibbutzim (Israeli towns that were attacked) were peaceniks who actively hired Gazans for jobs to encourage the reconciliation process. Here is an example of one Canadian Israeli woman (Vivian Silver) who lived there:
"a renowned pacifist who tirelessly advocated for peace and the improvement of the quality of life for Palestinians."
Silver moved to Kibbutz Be'eri, just kilometres away from the Israel-Gaza border, because she wanted to be a part of a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
"She always believed that people, if you take away the agendas and politics and the [ideologies], were the same,"
Silver had been an active member in a variety of humanitarian groups. She was a founding member of a movement called Women Wage Peace, which advocates for an end to Israeli-Palestinian conflict and for women to be involved in the peace process.
She was also the co-CEO of the Negev Institute for Strategies of Peace and Development, which describes itself as an Arab-Jewish organization dedicated to social change and a former board member for the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem.
Silver also volunteered with Road to Recovery and drove Palestinians to Israeli hospitals from Gaza until recently, Zeigen said.
source
She was murdered by Hamas on Oct 7.
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1) What are you talking about? The IDF has already gone far beyond that. What more proof do you need? The IDF will indubitably work 100 times harder to prevent another attack by Hamas and if you think otherwise you haven't been paying any attention to the war effort that's going on. If they now promise to protect Israeli citizens more than ever before, they would have all the credibility in the world, withdrawal or not.
2) Yes. Ideally just as afraid as Palestinians have to be of the IDF and Jewish settlers
/s
On a non-sarcastic note: the Israeli population has no greater right to live in peace than the Palestinian, and it's time that they wake up to that realization. They should be a lot more motivated to start working on an actual solution that benefits all sides and not only one. I'm not seeing enough effort made considering all Israelis are required to do military service and thus they're all aware of the system that enforces the oppression of Palestinians.
3) The safety of Israeli people doesn't justify a scenario in which tens of thousands of Palestinians get killed. Next point.
4) And? Nothing is perfect. What's your point?
"If only 500 die next time, would that make you feel safe living there? 100?"
1200 people equates to 0.013% of the population. That's 1 in 7645. Yes, they're safe enough. Palestinians on the other hand are in absolutely gigantic danger when compared to Israeli citizens.
With questions like this the only thing you prove is how much of a pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian bias you have.
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In a general sense the far right will never make you safe, because
1) Security is a superstition.
2) It isn't the far right's goal for people to be safe, instead the goal is to reinforce the social hierarchies against the non-people.
3) Mechanically when you oppress a category of people there's an increased chance that they'll fight back.
4) When people act out of fear they're more prone to be reactionary, so decreasing the amount of fear makes it less likely that the far right can be elected.
It's not necessarily 4 different points, they feed each other.
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On January 15 2024 23:44 Cerebrate1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2024 18:19 Magic Powers wrote:
Taking the risk that October 7 could repeat would be the ethical thing to do for Israel. There are various reasons.
Practically:
1) Israel's security apparatus didn't take the threat of Hamas seriously. This gave Hamas easy access into the country. If 1,000 people were slaughtered in the neighborhood next to yours, would you feel comfortable if the army of your country just said "we'll try to pay more attention next time. I'm sure that'll make all the difference."? A terrorist group killed 1000 of our civilians, therefor we are justified in killing 20.000+ innocent civilians on their side.
This is the entire problem with the Israeli response in a nutshell.
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For anyone who considers themselves left leaning, please try to reflect on your current beliefs regarding Houthis and realize you are not misunderstanding anything. If you slowly find yourselves wondering if Houthis are victims or “not actually antisemitic”, please take a moment to pause and wonder what caused the shift. There can be groups that hate Israel that are also separately deeply antisemitic and Houthis are a golden example of this. The types of language they openly embrace goes far beyond the more cautious Hamas.
But it’s the same deal every time. Reflexive activism that seeks only to assess the thinnest surface of the situation will have an easy time concluding Houthis are “just quirky and oppressed and speaking out of anger from oppression but are actually very progressive”
I think it will take at most 2 weeks before various forms of disinformation repeating enough times force their way from TikTok into mainstream. I am hopeful Houthis are enough of an extreme case that even though the US is bombing them, people may entertain the possibility they aren’t the main character in a Disney movie.
Coming soon to tiktok:
“Fun facts imperialists don’t want you to know: Houthis are not antisemitic. Their flag just means Israel and they only mean the IDF. Did you know they treat women very well and provide free housing for LGBTQ communities”
“Fun facts imperialists don’t want you to know: did you know Houthis initiated the first civil rights movement and that they were instrumental in helping the north win the civil war to abolish slavery?”
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On January 16 2024 01:19 Mohdoo wrote:
For anyone who considers themselves left leaning, please try to reflect on your current beliefs regarding Houthis and realize you are not misunderstanding anything. If you slowly find yourselves wondering if Houthis are victims or “not actually antisemitic”, please take a moment to pause and wonder what caused the shift. There can be groups that hate Israel that are also separately deeply antisemitic and Houthis are a golden example of this. The types of language they openly embrace goes far beyond the more cautious Hamas.
But it’s the same deal every time. Reflexive activism that seeks only to assess the thinnest surface of the situation will have an easy time concluding Houthis are “just quirky and oppressed and speaking out of anger from oppression but are actually very progressive”
I think it will take at most 2 weeks before various forms of disinformation repeating enough times force their way from TikTok into mainstream. I am hopeful Houthis are enough of an extreme case that even though the US is bombing them, people may entertain the possibility they aren’t the main character in a Disney movie.
Coming soon to tiktok:
“Fun facts imperialists don’t want you to know: Houthis are not antisemitic. Their flag just means Israel and they only mean the IDF. Did you know they treat women very well and provide free housing for LGBTQ communities”
“Fun facts imperialists don’t want you to know: did you know Houthis initiated the first civil rights movement and that they were instrumental in helping the north win the civil war to abolish slavery?”
You need to log off of Twitter, friend. You have an entire forum with leftists at your disposal, you don't need to make up new ones
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EPT
