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On March 23 2025 05:18 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2025 04:11 Billyboy wrote:On March 23 2025 04:02 oBlade wrote:On March 22 2025 14:10 Zambrah wrote:
Basically, Trump deported some people to a hardcore prison in El Salvadore by claiming they were gang member terrorists. The problem being that, as one might expect, at least some of them absolutely weren't and they have no evidence proving they were. Their argument for their lack of evidence being that because they had no evidence it was proof that they were just like super smart terrorists. You have the proof that some of them "absolutely" weren't the gang members claimed to be? Please share it if so, that would be interesting. I don't see how you could be privy to it otherwise. That seems to be the main thing most objections would need to hinge on here. On March 22 2025 14:10 Zambrah wrote:
A judge ordered them not to and they were like, "lul too late hes already gone bruh."
Real serious gestapo shit, this. No due process, so we're hitting that territory where anyone can be spirited away to a concentration camp if the government decides theyre a terrorist for fake or non existent reasons. This might be hard to swallow but if the government uses a law which is legal, that's the due process. For example, if some al Qaeda members were caught after walking across the border illegally and living in the US for a while, the process that is due to them is being immediately flown out under the same justification. Not letting them process an asylum claim because hey look they don't have a criminal record here and they haven't shot anyone yet. It may be frustrating the government doesn't publicly give us instant information regarding every single detail of every case of everything as it unfolds, but hopefully in principle we can all support mass deportations for al Qaeda members, not mass protests in their favor. Do you absolute proof that you are not a gang member? Of course not, because it damn near impossible to prove your not something. This is why the justice system in free and fair countries does not operate the way you are suggesting. Sure you're right at this point it's just he said he said. The government says they have extensive evidence and detailed investigations, and on the other hand the families of some of those affected have done other than come out and say "welp, you got him dead to rights, we admit our relative is a gangbanger." So we can't be sure. Difference is as a US citizen, I actually have a right to be in the US gang member or not, which is probably not even a crime per se (so it's a moot question and I don't know that courts make judgments as to whether foreigners or anyone are card carrying gang members or not). This is markedly different from being an illegal immigrant with no right to enter the country illegally, and whose presence is more unwanted when you add international criminal/terrorist affiliation.
I'm sure more and more information will come out, it usually does. My take at the moment would be with all the mistakes the government is making right now and needing to about face on, I wouldn't bet on them getting this even close to 100% right.
While I have you, in regards to DEI, what percentage of people of colour and women that are currently employed do you think have a job that they got over a more qualified white man?
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On March 23 2025 06:30 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2025 06:13 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 06:05 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2025 05:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 04:44 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2025 04:12 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 04:09 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2025 03:37 KwarK wrote:
Again, the problem is that the Democrats are too progressive. For example they didn't see black and woman as disqualifying factors for a candidate. They're out of touch with the American people. GH isn't wrong that the Democrats need to change to earn the votes of the American people, he's wrong about the direction they need to change in. Would be very interesting to see statistics on this subject tbh. How many people didn't vote Democrats because they weren't progressive enough, vs how many votes would they lose if they became more progressive. And vice versa. Doubt any exists, but would be very interesting if it did. Unlike yourself, I don't believe Democrats becoming a "Republican lite" would help them in the slightest. There are currently a lot of (in my opinion) truly awful people in the US right now, and they are truly happy with voting in awful people. Having the option of "slightly less" awful wouldn't really entice these people. The only way it would if Democrats became straight up much worse than the Republicans. But without empirical data, this will never be more than pointless opinions. There was some information a while back in the thread about swing voters, and yeah Democrats swung right in this election and got less people to swing towards them this time. Insisting that Democrats need to be racist and evil (more than they already are) is very silly, Democrats need to stop being completely spineless morons and start advocating aggressively for the working class and the material needs of the people living in the US and to stop pretending they do actually do those things just because they do it for corporations and corporations are technically people in this hellhole. Americans don’t think they’re working class. But things like not selling out the trans community and not running an old white man were absolutely vote losers. I’d argue that they don’t need to think they’re working class, just force feed them the things that will improve their lives so they don’t feel so aggressively discontented. Let them be able to start their dumb small business that fails in six months because they’re idiots, and when it fails they can crawl back to the universal healthcare and affordable housing and groceries. Democrats just need to actually build a reputation of helping people and actually help people that aren’t corporations. If they weren’t so incompetent we wouldn’t be enjoying our fascist take over right now. Is there any way you can structure that help so that nobody that voters perceive to be undeserving such as single mothers , philosophy majors, blacks etc. ever benefit from it. Because if you can’t then that’s not going to work. Dismantle the right wing stranglehold on media and stop acknowledging and capitulating to their asinine talking points and they won’t ever even have to hear that social safety nets are helping brown people etc So no. “Working class” Americans hate minorities more than they love themselves.
Working class Americans primarily care about their immediate material conditions, theyre pissed and Republicans direct their anger towards minorities. There is obviously a healthy mix of actual racism, but I dont believe that there would be nearly the resurgence in aggressive racism in a world where the working class was actually doing well, people could afford decent housing near their place of work, could afford kids more easily, could afford their groceries more easily, etc.
A desperate people are easily preyed upon by psychopaths and racists with dumb, easy, wrong answers.
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On March 23 2025 06:48 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2025 06:30 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2025 06:13 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 06:05 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2025 05:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 04:44 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2025 04:12 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 04:09 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2025 03:37 KwarK wrote:
Again, the problem is that the Democrats are too progressive. For example they didn't see black and woman as disqualifying factors for a candidate. They're out of touch with the American people. GH isn't wrong that the Democrats need to change to earn the votes of the American people, he's wrong about the direction they need to change in. Would be very interesting to see statistics on this subject tbh. How many people didn't vote Democrats because they weren't progressive enough, vs how many votes would they lose if they became more progressive. And vice versa. Doubt any exists, but would be very interesting if it did. Unlike yourself, I don't believe Democrats becoming a "Republican lite" would help them in the slightest. There are currently a lot of (in my opinion) truly awful people in the US right now, and they are truly happy with voting in awful people. Having the option of "slightly less" awful wouldn't really entice these people. The only way it would if Democrats became straight up much worse than the Republicans. But without empirical data, this will never be more than pointless opinions. There was some information a while back in the thread about swing voters, and yeah Democrats swung right in this election and got less people to swing towards them this time. Insisting that Democrats need to be racist and evil (more than they already are) is very silly, Democrats need to stop being completely spineless morons and start advocating aggressively for the working class and the material needs of the people living in the US and to stop pretending they do actually do those things just because they do it for corporations and corporations are technically people in this hellhole. Americans don’t think they’re working class. But things like not selling out the trans community and not running an old white man were absolutely vote losers. I’d argue that they don’t need to think they’re working class, just force feed them the things that will improve their lives so they don’t feel so aggressively discontented. Let them be able to start their dumb small business that fails in six months because they’re idiots, and when it fails they can crawl back to the universal healthcare and affordable housing and groceries. Democrats just need to actually build a reputation of helping people and actually help people that aren’t corporations. If they weren’t so incompetent we wouldn’t be enjoying our fascist take over right now. Is there any way you can structure that help so that nobody that voters perceive to be undeserving such as single mothers , philosophy majors, blacks etc. ever benefit from it. Because if you can’t then that’s not going to work. Dismantle the right wing stranglehold on media and stop acknowledging and capitulating to their asinine talking points and they won’t ever even have to hear that social safety nets are helping brown people etc So no. “Working class” Americans hate minorities more than they love themselves. Working class Americans primarily care about their immediate material conditions, theyre pissed and Republicans direct their anger towards minorities. There is obviously a healthy mix of actual racism, but I dont believe that there would be nearly the resurgence in aggressive racism in a world where the working class was actually doing well, people could afford decent housing near their place of work, could afford kids more easily, could afford their groceries more easily, etc. A desperate people are easily preyed upon by psychopaths and racists with dumb, easy, wrong answers.
GH: Democrats clearly could have gotten and can still get more support from independents and Republicans if they target healthcare insurance CEO's (as just one example) instead of trans people or immigrants.
But that's not what Democrats donors pay them to do, so they'll continue to throw as many oppressed people under the bus as Republicans demand of them while still losing to them anyway.
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On March 23 2025 07:05 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2025 06:48 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 06:30 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2025 06:13 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 06:05 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2025 05:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 04:44 KwarK wrote:On March 23 2025 04:12 Zambrah wrote:On March 23 2025 04:09 Excludos wrote:On March 23 2025 03:37 KwarK wrote:
Again, the problem is that the Democrats are too progressive. For example they didn't see black and woman as disqualifying factors for a candidate. They're out of touch with the American people. GH isn't wrong that the Democrats need to change to earn the votes of the American people, he's wrong about the direction they need to change in. Would be very interesting to see statistics on this subject tbh. How many people didn't vote Democrats because they weren't progressive enough, vs how many votes would they lose if they became more progressive. And vice versa. Doubt any exists, but would be very interesting if it did. Unlike yourself, I don't believe Democrats becoming a "Republican lite" would help them in the slightest. There are currently a lot of (in my opinion) truly awful people in the US right now, and they are truly happy with voting in awful people. Having the option of "slightly less" awful wouldn't really entice these people. The only way it would if Democrats became straight up much worse than the Republicans. But without empirical data, this will never be more than pointless opinions. There was some information a while back in the thread about swing voters, and yeah Democrats swung right in this election and got less people to swing towards them this time. Insisting that Democrats need to be racist and evil (more than they already are) is very silly, Democrats need to stop being completely spineless morons and start advocating aggressively for the working class and the material needs of the people living in the US and to stop pretending they do actually do those things just because they do it for corporations and corporations are technically people in this hellhole. Americans don’t think they’re working class. But things like not selling out the trans community and not running an old white man were absolutely vote losers. I’d argue that they don’t need to think they’re working class, just force feed them the things that will improve their lives so they don’t feel so aggressively discontented. Let them be able to start their dumb small business that fails in six months because they’re idiots, and when it fails they can crawl back to the universal healthcare and affordable housing and groceries. Democrats just need to actually build a reputation of helping people and actually help people that aren’t corporations. If they weren’t so incompetent we wouldn’t be enjoying our fascist take over right now. Is there any way you can structure that help so that nobody that voters perceive to be undeserving such as single mothers , philosophy majors, blacks etc. ever benefit from it. Because if you can’t then that’s not going to work. Dismantle the right wing stranglehold on media and stop acknowledging and capitulating to their asinine talking points and they won’t ever even have to hear that social safety nets are helping brown people etc So no. “Working class” Americans hate minorities more than they love themselves. Working class Americans primarily care about their immediate material conditions, theyre pissed and Republicans direct their anger towards minorities. There is obviously a healthy mix of actual racism, but I dont believe that there would be nearly the resurgence in aggressive racism in a world where the working class was actually doing well, people could afford decent housing near their place of work, could afford kids more easily, could afford their groceries more easily, etc. A desperate people are easily preyed upon by psychopaths and racists with dumb, easy, wrong answers. GH: Democrats clearly could have gotten and can still get more support from independents and Republicans if they target healthcare insurance CEO's (as just one example) instead of trans people or immigrants. But that's not what Democrats donors pay them to do, so they'll continue to throw as many oppressed people under the bus as Republicans demand of them while still losing to them anyway.
If they went against healthcare CEOs then the social parties they attend would be really awkward though, isn't it better for everyone to defend the healthcare CEOs so that their social club happy hour is more pleasant?
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On March 23 2025 10:10 decafchicken wrote:Anyone read further into the claims by the election truth agency? I'm equally skeptical and believing https://electiontruthalliance.org/
I haven't, but is the TL;DR version of this agency (and others) that supposedly there were enough irregularities and voting issues across the swing states that Harris could have actually beaten Trump in 2024?
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On March 23 2025 10:10 decafchicken wrote:Anyone read further into the claims by the election truth agency? I'm equally skeptical and believing https://electiontruthalliance.org/
Haven't looked into this, because alot of the stuff ive seen posted in response has been cringe or could be russian disinformation. If there was really enough election fraud that could have swung the states, we would have known by now, or a few democrats in congress would be raising the issue. Trump basically overperformed the same way he did in 2020 and 2016 against the polls.
Now the republicans absolutely cheated in this election when it came to limiting democrat leaning polling stations, limiting hours etc. Also voter intimidation with all the bomb threats. But would those have swung 6+ states, doubtful.
I am exceedingly skeptical as well because Russia or the GOP (is there a difference at this point) would love to amplify "election stolen" on the left so that everyone mistrusts everything. The goal of authoritarianism is for the public to be completely in the dark as to what is going on and unable to retrack the steps it took to get to the dictator part.
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Yeah there's one wing of "the way these polling results showed up combined with musks comments about how polling computers work makes no fucking sense" and another of "the tracking of voter turnout versus the systemic hurdles put in place to affect it" that both merit some investigation but are relatively unheard of compared to all of Trump's unhinged election fraud rants that are constantly under public purview
Again, not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, just every day that passes I feel like these things warrant a bit more attention then I would previously give them
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On March 23 2025 05:54 Sent. wrote:
I can imagine a reasonable person that chose to abstain from voting because they thought both parties support Israeli actions in Palestine, but I think the majority of people who declare that as one of their reasons to not to vote for Democrats are horribly dishonest.
If you assume Trump's stance is comparable to supporting Hitler and Biden's stance is comparable to supporting Stalin, you can try to argue it's defensible to abstain from actively helping any of them. Personally I consider Biden's government stance far more pro-palestinian than what the far left is claiming, but I can understand why some of them think otherwise.
The reason why I think most of those who criticise Democrats are being dishonest is that I'm like 90% sure they would refuse to vote for Harris even if Biden reduced American support for Israel to zero AND slapped heavy sanctions on Israel. They represent that radical part of the left that consider everyone to the right of them, including moderate lefties, as fascists or fascism enablers. Everything they do can be reduced to trying to claim a moral high ground over everyone else and it's impossible to reason with them.
It's certainly the case for GH that no matter how far Biden moved on something like Palestine he would still not support him. He would just move on to the next reason for why people should not vote for either party and instead support revolutionary socialism, whatever that entails. It's like he's a diehard vegan and for 10 years people have been telling him "ok so you don't like red meat, but at least try the chicken." He doesn't want either and he's never going to want either. Telling him the chicken is less evil because it's not as bad for the environment and not as bad for his health is not going to sway him. But people will try until they are blue in the face again and again.
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On March 23 2025 11:08 Husyelt wrote:Haven't looked into this, because alot of the stuff ive seen posted in response has been cringe or could be russian disinformation. If there was really enough election fraud that could have swung the states, we would have known by now, or a few democrats in congress would be raising the issue. Trump basically overperformed the same way he did in 2020 and 2016 against the polls. Now the republicans absolutely cheated in this election when it came to limiting democrat leaning polling stations, limiting hours etc. Also voter intimidation with all the bomb threats. But would those have swung 6+ states, doubtful. I am exceedingly skeptical as well because Russia or the GOP (is there a difference at this point) would love to amplify "election stolen" on the left so that everyone mistrusts everything. The goal of authoritarianism is for the public to be completely in the dark as to what is going on and unable to retrack the steps it took to get to the dictator part.
Have any actual courts heard your claims that Republicans cheated (but would have won anyway as you lean)? Because for one I'm pretty sure Republicans doing bomb threats would have been a nationwide scandal.
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I thought the bomb threats came from Russia.
I suppose that makes them not Republican.
Doesn't stop the Republicans rewarding Russia afterwards though.
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As if attacks on our healthcare and economy and education and civil rights and global credibility weren't bad enough, here are some attacks on Social Security by Donald Trump:
"The Social Security Administration's many proposed changes are worrying advocates. In the past month, the Trump administration has announced a flurry of changes at the agency that administers Social Security. Among these changes are plans to cut thousands of jobs, close offices, and enact new policy — including more stringent identity checks that could require in-person office visits. Advocates warn these sweeping moves could lead to seniors and people with disabilities having a harder time getting help with their crucial benefits."
https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office
"Trump administration’s Social Security changes could limit access to benefits for millions. Significant changes will be coming for Social Security recipients. Millions will no longer be able to verify their identity over the phone, creating a challenge for older Americans and those with disabilities. Advocates are raising concerns about the burden this could place on an already vulnerable population."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/trump-administrations-social-security-changes-could-limit-access-to-benefits-for-millions
"Trump allies press the White House to dial back Elon Musk's media interviews over his Social Security jabs. Republicans are voicing concerns about Musk’s downsizing efforts, which include closing some Social Security offices and curtailing telephone services."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/elon-musk-social-security-concern-trump-allies-rcna197527
"Earlier this month, Musk, the billionaire head of DOGE, pushed for major cuts to Social Security, calling it a “Ponzi scheme,” claiming the system is rife with people fraudulently receiving benefits. Particularly, Musk claimed during an interview with Fox Business, with no evidence, that many illegal immigrants are receiving benefits, calling for them to be removed from Social Security’s rolls. The Hill reported economists say the levels of fraud Musk has talked about “just don’t exist.” Earlier this month, NBC News reported former Social Security administrator Martin O’Malley warned that DOGE’s cuts to Social Security could disrupt benefits for millions of Americans for the first time since Social Security’s founding. Now, McCaffrey worries he may have been one of the first of them."
https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/man-says-social-security-benefits-terminated-without-warning-or-explanation/
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Northern Ireland24863 Posts
On March 23 2025 19:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:As if attacks on our healthcare and economy and education and civil rights and global credibility weren't bad enough, here are some attacks on Social Security by Donald Trump: "The Social Security Administration's many proposed changes are worrying advocates. In the past month, the Trump administration has announced a flurry of changes at the agency that administers Social Security. Among these changes are plans to cut thousands of jobs, close offices, and enact new policy — including more stringent identity checks that could require in-person office visits. Advocates warn these sweeping moves could lead to seniors and people with disabilities having a harder time getting help with their crucial benefits." https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office "Trump administration’s Social Security changes could limit access to benefits for millions. Significant changes will be coming for Social Security recipients. Millions will no longer be able to verify their identity over the phone, creating a challenge for older Americans and those with disabilities. Advocates are raising concerns about the burden this could place on an already vulnerable population." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/trump-administrations-social-security-changes-could-limit-access-to-benefits-for-millions "Trump allies press the White House to dial back Elon Musk's media interviews over his Social Security jabs. Republicans are voicing concerns about Musk’s downsizing efforts, which include closing some Social Security offices and curtailing telephone services." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/elon-musk-social-security-concern-trump-allies-rcna197527 "Earlier this month, Musk, the billionaire head of DOGE, pushed for major cuts to Social Security, calling it a “Ponzi scheme,” claiming the system is rife with people fraudulently receiving benefits. Particularly, Musk claimed during an interview with Fox Business, with no evidence, that many illegal immigrants are receiving benefits, calling for them to be removed from Social Security’s rolls. The Hill reported economists say the levels of fraud Musk has talked about “just don’t exist.” Earlier this month, NBC News reported former Social Security administrator Martin O’Malley warned that DOGE’s cuts to Social Security could disrupt benefits for millions of Americans for the first time since Social Security’s founding. Now, McCaffrey worries he may have been one of the first of them." https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/man-says-social-security-benefits-terminated-without-warning-or-explanation/
That’s a really shit 1-2 punch, I’ve seen how that rodeo goes in this country and it ends rather badly for a lot of legitimate claimants.
Musk either doesn’t know how Social Security works, is lying or a combination of the two.
Ironically a big crypto lad that one, which in its current form is very much an actual Ponzi scheme.
I just hope this kind of nonsense doesn’t actually stick, I fear it might and we’ll hear all this kind of stuff repeated by folks advocating to cut their noses off to spite their faces. I’ve heard some very articulate debunking of this stuff, but more in my sphere of the net and less so by prominent politicians to a more general audience. Perhaps we need more of that
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On March 23 2025 20:18 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2025 19:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:As if attacks on our healthcare and economy and education and civil rights and global credibility weren't bad enough, here are some attacks on Social Security by Donald Trump: "The Social Security Administration's many proposed changes are worrying advocates. In the past month, the Trump administration has announced a flurry of changes at the agency that administers Social Security. Among these changes are plans to cut thousands of jobs, close offices, and enact new policy — including more stringent identity checks that could require in-person office visits. Advocates warn these sweeping moves could lead to seniors and people with disabilities having a harder time getting help with their crucial benefits." https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office "Trump administration’s Social Security changes could limit access to benefits for millions. Significant changes will be coming for Social Security recipients. Millions will no longer be able to verify their identity over the phone, creating a challenge for older Americans and those with disabilities. Advocates are raising concerns about the burden this could place on an already vulnerable population." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/trump-administrations-social-security-changes-could-limit-access-to-benefits-for-millions "Trump allies press the White House to dial back Elon Musk's media interviews over his Social Security jabs. Republicans are voicing concerns about Musk’s downsizing efforts, which include closing some Social Security offices and curtailing telephone services." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/elon-musk-social-security-concern-trump-allies-rcna197527 "Earlier this month, Musk, the billionaire head of DOGE, pushed for major cuts to Social Security, calling it a “Ponzi scheme,” claiming the system is rife with people fraudulently receiving benefits. Particularly, Musk claimed during an interview with Fox Business, with no evidence, that many illegal immigrants are receiving benefits, calling for them to be removed from Social Security’s rolls. The Hill reported economists say the levels of fraud Musk has talked about “just don’t exist.” Earlier this month, NBC News reported former Social Security administrator Martin O’Malley warned that DOGE’s cuts to Social Security could disrupt benefits for millions of Americans for the first time since Social Security’s founding. Now, McCaffrey worries he may have been one of the first of them." https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/man-says-social-security-benefits-terminated-without-warning-or-explanation/ That’s a really shit 1-2 punch, I’ve seen how that rodeo goes in this country and it ends rather badly for a lot of legitimate claimants. Musk either doesn’t know how Social Security works, is lying or a combination of the two. Ironically a big crypto lad that one, which in its current form is very much an actual Ponzi scheme. I just hope this kind of nonsense doesn’t actually stick, I fear it might and we’ll hear all this kind of stuff repeated by folks advocating to cut their noses off to spite their faces. I’ve heard some very articulate debunking of this stuff, but more in my sphere of the net and less so by prominent politicians to a more general audience. Perhaps we need more of that
Yeah maybe the Trump supporters will decide that this is just Musk trying to get them to believe what is convenient for them to believe, so they will see through his bullshit and find their way to the obvious truth.
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Northern Ireland24863 Posts
On March 23 2025 20:29 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2025 20:18 WombaT wrote:On March 23 2025 19:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:As if attacks on our healthcare and economy and education and civil rights and global credibility weren't bad enough, here are some attacks on Social Security by Donald Trump: "The Social Security Administration's many proposed changes are worrying advocates. In the past month, the Trump administration has announced a flurry of changes at the agency that administers Social Security. Among these changes are plans to cut thousands of jobs, close offices, and enact new policy — including more stringent identity checks that could require in-person office visits. Advocates warn these sweeping moves could lead to seniors and people with disabilities having a harder time getting help with their crucial benefits." https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office "Trump administration’s Social Security changes could limit access to benefits for millions. Significant changes will be coming for Social Security recipients. Millions will no longer be able to verify their identity over the phone, creating a challenge for older Americans and those with disabilities. Advocates are raising concerns about the burden this could place on an already vulnerable population." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/trump-administrations-social-security-changes-could-limit-access-to-benefits-for-millions "Trump allies press the White House to dial back Elon Musk's media interviews over his Social Security jabs. Republicans are voicing concerns about Musk’s downsizing efforts, which include closing some Social Security offices and curtailing telephone services." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/elon-musk-social-security-concern-trump-allies-rcna197527 "Earlier this month, Musk, the billionaire head of DOGE, pushed for major cuts to Social Security, calling it a “Ponzi scheme,” claiming the system is rife with people fraudulently receiving benefits. Particularly, Musk claimed during an interview with Fox Business, with no evidence, that many illegal immigrants are receiving benefits, calling for them to be removed from Social Security’s rolls. The Hill reported economists say the levels of fraud Musk has talked about “just don’t exist.” Earlier this month, NBC News reported former Social Security administrator Martin O’Malley warned that DOGE’s cuts to Social Security could disrupt benefits for millions of Americans for the first time since Social Security’s founding. Now, McCaffrey worries he may have been one of the first of them." https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/man-says-social-security-benefits-terminated-without-warning-or-explanation/ That’s a really shit 1-2 punch, I’ve seen how that rodeo goes in this country and it ends rather badly for a lot of legitimate claimants. Musk either doesn’t know how Social Security works, is lying or a combination of the two. Ironically a big crypto lad that one, which in its current form is very much an actual Ponzi scheme. I just hope this kind of nonsense doesn’t actually stick, I fear it might and we’ll hear all this kind of stuff repeated by folks advocating to cut their noses off to spite their faces. I’ve heard some very articulate debunking of this stuff, but more in my sphere of the net and less so by prominent politicians to a more general audience. Perhaps we need more of that Yeah maybe the Trump supporters will decide that this is just Musk trying to get them to believe what is convenient for them to believe, so they will see through his bullshit and find their way to the obvious truth.
Aside from romance, I’m not much of a fighter of lost causes. The kind of folks who can watch Elon Musk do a Seig Heil and claim it wasn’t that, I mean good luck with them.
I think my worry is when certain bullshit misconceptions start to permeate and settle into the brains of your actual moderate types then you’re really up shit creek.
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On March 23 2025 21:08 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2025 20:29 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 23 2025 20:18 WombaT wrote:On March 23 2025 19:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:As if attacks on our healthcare and economy and education and civil rights and global credibility weren't bad enough, here are some attacks on Social Security by Donald Trump: "The Social Security Administration's many proposed changes are worrying advocates. In the past month, the Trump administration has announced a flurry of changes at the agency that administers Social Security. Among these changes are plans to cut thousands of jobs, close offices, and enact new policy — including more stringent identity checks that could require in-person office visits. Advocates warn these sweeping moves could lead to seniors and people with disabilities having a harder time getting help with their crucial benefits." https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office "Trump administration’s Social Security changes could limit access to benefits for millions. Significant changes will be coming for Social Security recipients. Millions will no longer be able to verify their identity over the phone, creating a challenge for older Americans and those with disabilities. Advocates are raising concerns about the burden this could place on an already vulnerable population." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/trump-administrations-social-security-changes-could-limit-access-to-benefits-for-millions "Trump allies press the White House to dial back Elon Musk's media interviews over his Social Security jabs. Republicans are voicing concerns about Musk’s downsizing efforts, which include closing some Social Security offices and curtailing telephone services." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/elon-musk-social-security-concern-trump-allies-rcna197527 "Earlier this month, Musk, the billionaire head of DOGE, pushed for major cuts to Social Security, calling it a “Ponzi scheme,” claiming the system is rife with people fraudulently receiving benefits. Particularly, Musk claimed during an interview with Fox Business, with no evidence, that many illegal immigrants are receiving benefits, calling for them to be removed from Social Security’s rolls. The Hill reported economists say the levels of fraud Musk has talked about “just don’t exist.” Earlier this month, NBC News reported former Social Security administrator Martin O’Malley warned that DOGE’s cuts to Social Security could disrupt benefits for millions of Americans for the first time since Social Security’s founding. Now, McCaffrey worries he may have been one of the first of them." https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/man-says-social-security-benefits-terminated-without-warning-or-explanation/ That’s a really shit 1-2 punch, I’ve seen how that rodeo goes in this country and it ends rather badly for a lot of legitimate claimants. Musk either doesn’t know how Social Security works, is lying or a combination of the two. Ironically a big crypto lad that one, which in its current form is very much an actual Ponzi scheme. I just hope this kind of nonsense doesn’t actually stick, I fear it might and we’ll hear all this kind of stuff repeated by folks advocating to cut their noses off to spite their faces. I’ve heard some very articulate debunking of this stuff, but more in my sphere of the net and less so by prominent politicians to a more general audience. Perhaps we need more of that Yeah maybe the Trump supporters will decide that this is just Musk trying to get them to believe what is convenient for them to believe, so they will see through his bullshit and find their way to the obvious truth. Aside from romance, I’m not much of a fighter of lost causes. The kind of folks who can watch Elon Musk do a Seig Heil and claim it wasn’t that, I mean good luck with them. I think my worry is when certain bullshit misconceptions start to permeate and settle into the brains of your actual moderate types then you’re really up shit creek.
Yeah I get it. Completely actually. I'm a disabled person living in the UK so I've been the target of this kind of 'social security' attack for the last 15 years, and its only escalating under our 'left wing' Labour government.
Its rather frustrating to be constantly blamed for my country's poor economic performance while the mega wealthy who own all the assets in my country live abroad and don't pay tax.
Of course, if people can justify that they aren't like me, then they are perfectly happy to go along with it as long as it doesn't disrupt their lives. That's the magic Trump juice.
Meanwhile, in news that summarizes everything:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kamala-harris-2028-democratic-primary-b2719928.html
Kamala Harris topped a new poll on who Democrats would back in the 2028 presidential primary if it was held today, with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in third place.
Despite losing the 2024 election to Donald Trump, the former vice president was backed by 36 percent of Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters in Morning Consult’s latest poll.
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Well, the guardian is making the same point that I was making earlier. www.theguardian.com
Trump’s expansionism threatens the rules-based order in place since second world war
Experts are warning that a combination of the Russian aggression against Ukraine and Trump’s comments explicitly pushing for the US to acquire Greenland, Canada, the Panama canal and Gaza is fuelling a permissive environment that threatens long-recognised borders and the international rules-based order that has existed since the end of the war.
God damn it, did you really have to elect Trump.
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On March 24 2025 07:39 EnDeR_ wrote:Well, the guardian is making the same point that I was making earlier. www.theguardian.comShow nested quote +Trump’s expansionism threatens the rules-based order in place since second world war
Experts are warning that a combination of the Russian aggression against Ukraine and Trump’s comments explicitly pushing for the US to acquire Greenland, Canada, the Panama canal and Gaza is fuelling a permissive environment that threatens long-recognised borders and the international rules-based order that has existed since the end of the war.
God damn it, did you really have to elect Trump.
Have none of these people not thought about how cool and edgy all this "trolling" is though?
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Northern Ireland24863 Posts
On March 23 2025 21:16 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2025 21:08 WombaT wrote:On March 23 2025 20:29 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 23 2025 20:18 WombaT wrote:On March 23 2025 19:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:As if attacks on our healthcare and economy and education and civil rights and global credibility weren't bad enough, here are some attacks on Social Security by Donald Trump: "The Social Security Administration's many proposed changes are worrying advocates. In the past month, the Trump administration has announced a flurry of changes at the agency that administers Social Security. Among these changes are plans to cut thousands of jobs, close offices, and enact new policy — including more stringent identity checks that could require in-person office visits. Advocates warn these sweeping moves could lead to seniors and people with disabilities having a harder time getting help with their crucial benefits." https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office "Trump administration’s Social Security changes could limit access to benefits for millions. Significant changes will be coming for Social Security recipients. Millions will no longer be able to verify their identity over the phone, creating a challenge for older Americans and those with disabilities. Advocates are raising concerns about the burden this could place on an already vulnerable population." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/trump-administrations-social-security-changes-could-limit-access-to-benefits-for-millions "Trump allies press the White House to dial back Elon Musk's media interviews over his Social Security jabs. Republicans are voicing concerns about Musk’s downsizing efforts, which include closing some Social Security offices and curtailing telephone services." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/elon-musk-social-security-concern-trump-allies-rcna197527 "Earlier this month, Musk, the billionaire head of DOGE, pushed for major cuts to Social Security, calling it a “Ponzi scheme,” claiming the system is rife with people fraudulently receiving benefits. Particularly, Musk claimed during an interview with Fox Business, with no evidence, that many illegal immigrants are receiving benefits, calling for them to be removed from Social Security’s rolls. The Hill reported economists say the levels of fraud Musk has talked about “just don’t exist.” Earlier this month, NBC News reported former Social Security administrator Martin O’Malley warned that DOGE’s cuts to Social Security could disrupt benefits for millions of Americans for the first time since Social Security’s founding. Now, McCaffrey worries he may have been one of the first of them." https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/man-says-social-security-benefits-terminated-without-warning-or-explanation/ That’s a really shit 1-2 punch, I’ve seen how that rodeo goes in this country and it ends rather badly for a lot of legitimate claimants. Musk either doesn’t know how Social Security works, is lying or a combination of the two. Ironically a big crypto lad that one, which in its current form is very much an actual Ponzi scheme. I just hope this kind of nonsense doesn’t actually stick, I fear it might and we’ll hear all this kind of stuff repeated by folks advocating to cut their noses off to spite their faces. I’ve heard some very articulate debunking of this stuff, but more in my sphere of the net and less so by prominent politicians to a more general audience. Perhaps we need more of that Yeah maybe the Trump supporters will decide that this is just Musk trying to get them to believe what is convenient for them to believe, so they will see through his bullshit and find their way to the obvious truth. Aside from romance, I’m not much of a fighter of lost causes. The kind of folks who can watch Elon Musk do a Seig Heil and claim it wasn’t that, I mean good luck with them. I think my worry is when certain bullshit misconceptions start to permeate and settle into the brains of your actual moderate types then you’re really up shit creek. Yeah I get it. Completely actually. I'm a disabled person living in the UK so I've been the target of this kind of 'social security' attack for the last 15 years, and its only escalating under our 'left wing' Labour government. Its rather frustrating to be constantly blamed for my country's poor economic performance while the mega wealthy who own all the assets in my country live abroad and don't pay tax. Of course, if people can justify that they aren't like me, then they are perfectly happy to go along with it as long as it doesn't disrupt their lives. That's the magic Trump juice. Meanwhile, in news that summarizes everything: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kamala-harris-2028-democratic-primary-b2719928.htmlShow nested quote +Kamala Harris topped a new poll on who Democrats would back in the 2028 presidential primary if it was held today, with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in third place.
Despite losing the 2024 election to Donald Trump, the former vice president was backed by 36 percent of Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters in Morning Consult’s latest poll.
Been there, got that particular t-shirt.
I find it bizarre, if people are kicking off I just ask ‘ever been on the dole?’ If the answer to that is yes, I ask how they found it. ‘Shit’ is almost invariably the answer is ‘shit’. Right so you’re getting angry about people having the government pay them to have a quality of life you yourself think is shit?
If it’s to do with disability like, the amount of people I’ve had whinge about that, and when I press them they’ll know somebody who struggled to get benefits they were legitimately entitled to. So they’re aware of the difficulties, but simultaneously believe those who aren’t actually disabled are easily able to scam the system?
As for your link, I dunno if I’d read too much into it this far out either way. It’s more a name recognition game than any great indicator of values I suppose.
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EPT
