Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Now that Trump is out of office, the press and others are willing to at least give him credit where it's due ("broken clock is right twice a day" type of thing). The facts show that trump has promoted the covid vaccine from the start. By any measure of what a president gets credit for, trump deserves credit for operation warp speed and the vaccines. (Which is funny because, prior to the 2020 election, dems and their allied media were united in expressing hesitancy towards any vaccine approved on an accelerated schedule during the trump admin. But that's politics - sometimes you've gotta express vaccine hesitancy during a global pandemic in order to defeat the other political party.)
For someone confidently declaring what the facts show you’ve included very few facts.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Now that Trump is out of office, the press and others are willing to at least give him credit where it's due ("broken clock is right twice a day" type of thing). The facts show that trump has promoted the covid vaccine from the start. By any measure of what a president gets credit for, trump deserves credit for operation warp speed and the vaccines. (Which is funny because, prior to the 2020 election, dems and their allied media were united in expressing hesitancy towards any vaccine approved on an accelerated schedule during the trump admin. But that's politics - sometimes you've gotta express vaccine hesitancy during a global pandemic in order to defeat the other political party.)
For someone confidently declaring what the facts show you’ve included very few facts.
Basically Biden said he wouldn’t take medical advice from Trump but would absolutely take it from the experts.
There are many examples of trump promoting the vaccines. Here is one:
That politifact article is a good case study in the potential for fact checkers to be politically biased. It says "Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized." But Biden said, even according to that same article, "People don’t believe that [Trump is] telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." Clearly, Biden was raising questions about the vaccine itself, contrary to the politifact author's argument.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Now that Trump is out of office, the press and others are willing to at least give him credit where it's due ("broken clock is right twice a day" type of thing). The facts show that trump has promoted the covid vaccine from the start. By any measure of what a president gets credit for, trump deserves credit for operation warp speed and the vaccines. (Which is funny because, prior to the 2020 election, dems and their allied media were united in expressing hesitancy towards any vaccine approved on an accelerated schedule during the trump admin. But that's politics - sometimes you've gotta express vaccine hesitancy during a global pandemic in order to defeat the other political party.)
For someone confidently declaring what the facts show you’ve included very few facts.
That politifact article is a good case study in the potential for fact checkers to be politically biased. It says "Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized." But Biden said, even according to that same article, "People don’t believe that [Trump is] telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." Clearly, Biden was raising questions about the vaccine itself, contrary to the politifact author's argument.
I didn’t say that Trump didn’t promote the vaccine so I don’t know why you’re bringing up that he did.
Biden was clearly suggesting that a politically motivated rush to roll the vaccine out ahead of schedule before trials were complete would raise questions about safety, especially given the context of Trump’s post-truth administration. Vaccines are safe because of how extensively they are tested. That’s why they’re so safe.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Now that Trump is out of office, the press and others are willing to at least give him credit where it's due ("broken clock is right twice a day" type of thing). The facts show that trump has promoted the covid vaccine from the start. By any measure of what a president gets credit for, trump deserves credit for operation warp speed and the vaccines. (Which is funny because, prior to the 2020 election, dems and their allied media were united in expressing hesitancy towards any vaccine approved on an accelerated schedule during the trump admin. But that's politics - sometimes you've gotta express vaccine hesitancy during a global pandemic in order to defeat the other political party.)
For someone confidently declaring what the facts show you’ve included very few facts.
That politifact article is a good case study in the potential for fact checkers to be politically biased. It says "Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized." But Biden said, even according to that same article, "People don’t believe that [Trump is] telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." Clearly, Biden was raising questions about the vaccine itself, contrary to the politifact author's argument.
I didn’t say that Trump didn’t promote the vaccine so I don’t know why you’re bringing up that he did.
Biden was clearly suggesting that a politically motivated rush to roll the vaccine out ahead of schedule before trials were complete would raise questions about safety, especially given the context of Trump’s post-truth administration. Vaccines are safe because of how extensively they are tested. That’s why they’re so safe.
Biden said that a warp speed vaccine was "not likely" to have gone through the requisite trials. In doing so, Biden expressed hesitancy about a warp speed vaccine. And Biden, and many other trump critics, were wrong about the feasible timing of the vaccine.
I think we all know that Biden (and his allied media) only doubted the feasibility of a warp speed vaccine in order to prevent trump from getting credit for a warp speed vaccine prior to the 2020 election. It's okay to admit that, on this one narrow issue, Biden was wrong and Trump was right.
Thought about it some more and I think I'm done with US politics as a whole. We're going to die in any number of ways soon, whether that be Covid or climate change, and the Dems and GOP will not do anything to stop it. Knowing that brings me some solace, as I won't have to be constantly stressed and depressed by every level of government in this country.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Now that Trump is out of office, the press and others are willing to at least give him credit where it's due ("broken clock is right twice a day" type of thing). The facts show that trump has promoted the covid vaccine from the start. By any measure of what a president gets credit for, trump deserves credit for operation warp speed and the vaccines. (Which is funny because, prior to the 2020 election, dems and their allied media were united in expressing hesitancy towards any vaccine approved on an accelerated schedule during the trump admin. But that's politics - sometimes you've gotta express vaccine hesitancy during a global pandemic in order to defeat the other political party.)
For someone confidently declaring what the facts show you’ve included very few facts.
That politifact article is a good case study in the potential for fact checkers to be politically biased. It says "Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized." But Biden said, even according to that same article, "People don’t believe that [Trump is] telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." Clearly, Biden was raising questions about the vaccine itself, contrary to the politifact author's argument.
I didn’t say that Trump didn’t promote the vaccine so I don’t know why you’re bringing up that he did.
Biden was clearly suggesting that a politically motivated rush to roll the vaccine out ahead of schedule before trials were complete would raise questions about safety, especially given the context of Trump’s post-truth administration. Vaccines are safe because of how extensively they are tested. That’s why they’re so safe.
Biden said that a warp speed vaccine was "not likely" to have gone through the requisite trials. In doing so, Biden expressed hesitancy about a warp speed vaccine. And Biden, and many other trump critics, were wrong about the feasible timing of the vaccine.
I think we all know that Biden (and his allied media) only doubted the feasibility of a warp speed vaccine in order to prevent trump from getting credit for a warp speed vaccine prior to the 2020 election. It's okay to admit that, on this one narrow issue, Biden was wrong and Trump was right.
I’ll definitely say that while what was said was “we have to be prudent and make sure we did our due diligence” it is not hard to come to the conclusion that the subtext was throwing shade at Trump and implying that he might have made bad vaccines. As it stands, Trump’s vaccine development and distribution was stellar, leaving Biden an easy time with making small changes and taking credit for a rollout that was already in motion by the time he took office. Whether it was throwing shade or just a standard statement of prudence is going to depend most highly on how charitable you are inclined to be.
On December 29 2021 15:03 plasmidghost wrote: Thought about it some more and I think I'm done with US politics as a whole. We're going to die in any number of ways soon, whether that be Covid or climate change, and the Dems and GOP will not do anything to stop it. Knowing that brings me some solace, as I won't have to be constantly stressed and depressed by every level of government in this country.
Do yourself a favor and take a break from politics at least. However bad things may or may not be, it isn’t worth losing your sanity over to think about it all the time.
On December 29 2021 15:03 plasmidghost wrote: Thought about it some more and I think I'm done with US politics as a whole. We're going to die in any number of ways soon, whether that be Covid or climate change, and the Dems and GOP will not do anything to stop it. Knowing that brings me some solace, as I won't have to be constantly stressed and depressed by every level of government in this country.
First mistake was thinking either of them give a shit about our future. Don't let politics get to you, seeing as how it's all bullshit anyway. Just take a step back, do your part every 2 years by representing your heart via vote, and move on.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Now that Trump is out of office, the press and others are willing to at least give him credit where it's due ("broken clock is right twice a day" type of thing). The facts show that trump has promoted the covid vaccine from the start. By any measure of what a president gets credit for, trump deserves credit for operation warp speed and the vaccines. (Which is funny because, prior to the 2020 election, dems and their allied media were united in expressing hesitancy towards any vaccine approved on an accelerated schedule during the trump admin. But that's politics - sometimes you've gotta express vaccine hesitancy during a global pandemic in order to defeat the other political party.)
For someone confidently declaring what the facts show you’ve included very few facts.
That politifact article is a good case study in the potential for fact checkers to be politically biased. It says "Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized." But Biden said, even according to that same article, "People don’t believe that [Trump is] telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." Clearly, Biden was raising questions about the vaccine itself, contrary to the politifact author's argument.
I didn’t say that Trump didn’t promote the vaccine so I don’t know why you’re bringing up that he did.
Biden was clearly suggesting that a politically motivated rush to roll the vaccine out ahead of schedule before trials were complete would raise questions about safety, especially given the context of Trump’s post-truth administration. Vaccines are safe because of how extensively they are tested. That’s why they’re so safe.
Biden said that a warp speed vaccine was "not likely" to have gone through the requisite trials. In doing so, Biden expressed hesitancy about a warp speed vaccine. And Biden, and many other trump critics, were wrong about the feasible timing of the vaccine.
I think we all know that Biden (and his allied media) only doubted the feasibility of a warp speed vaccine in order to prevent trump from getting credit for a warp speed vaccine prior to the 2020 election. It's okay to admit that, on this one narrow issue, Biden was wrong and Trump was right.
I’ll definitely say that while what was said was “we have to be prudent and make sure we did our due diligence” it is not hard to come to the conclusion that the subtext was throwing shade at Trump and implying that he might have made bad vaccines. As it stands, Trump’s vaccine development and distribution was stellar, leaving Biden an easy time with making small changes and taking credit for a rollout that was already in motion by the time he took office. Whether it was throwing shade or just a standard statement of prudence is going to depend most highly on how charitable you are inclined to be.
On December 29 2021 15:03 plasmidghost wrote: Thought about it some more and I think I'm done with US politics as a whole. We're going to die in any number of ways soon, whether that be Covid or climate change, and the Dems and GOP will not do anything to stop it. Knowing that brings me some solace, as I won't have to be constantly stressed and depressed by every level of government in this country.
Do yourself a favor and take a break from politics at least. However bad things may or may not be, it isn’t worth losing your sanity over to think about it all the time.
how is the US record of vaccination anything but laughable with a paltry 61% vaccination rate? neither Trum nor Biden have managed to get it on a level comparable with other developed countries. And that is attributable to partisan division clearly sowed by Trump.
Btw what did Trump do but to mostly trivialise covid 19 and throw money at moderna? Whose technology (mrna) by the by has been funded for many administration and has like zero to do with any current president / government.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Yeah, he downplayed it to his crowd, that's because he was trying to get re-elected. I honestly don't know of the logistics of getting the vaccines out during the Trump vs Biden times, so I'll take your word that Biden is being more efficient. I just found it relevant to point out that he sort of was a part of pushing through the vaccines that you see him supporting as a saving grace for him.
And as far as Qanon goes, that's just a matter of perspective, man. You're telling me that a shocking number of Americans are dumb as shit, and 40 Republicans are playing to their audience? I can't help but be tickled a bit when someone remarks on how much of a problem it is.
You do realize that the Nazis literally used such wild conspiracy theories as a springboard to power and then the Holocaust happened? I'm not being hyperbolic here. A large segment of the voters and politicians being completely detached from reality can be extremely dangerous.
On December 29 2021 03:28 JimmiC wrote: [quote] Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Now that Trump is out of office, the press and others are willing to at least give him credit where it's due ("broken clock is right twice a day" type of thing). The facts show that trump has promoted the covid vaccine from the start. By any measure of what a president gets credit for, trump deserves credit for operation warp speed and the vaccines. (Which is funny because, prior to the 2020 election, dems and their allied media were united in expressing hesitancy towards any vaccine approved on an accelerated schedule during the trump admin. But that's politics - sometimes you've gotta express vaccine hesitancy during a global pandemic in order to defeat the other political party.)
For someone confidently declaring what the facts show you’ve included very few facts.
That politifact article is a good case study in the potential for fact checkers to be politically biased. It says "Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized." But Biden said, even according to that same article, "People don’t believe that [Trump is] telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." Clearly, Biden was raising questions about the vaccine itself, contrary to the politifact author's argument.
I didn’t say that Trump didn’t promote the vaccine so I don’t know why you’re bringing up that he did.
Biden was clearly suggesting that a politically motivated rush to roll the vaccine out ahead of schedule before trials were complete would raise questions about safety, especially given the context of Trump’s post-truth administration. Vaccines are safe because of how extensively they are tested. That’s why they’re so safe.
Biden said that a warp speed vaccine was "not likely" to have gone through the requisite trials. In doing so, Biden expressed hesitancy about a warp speed vaccine. And Biden, and many other trump critics, were wrong about the feasible timing of the vaccine.
I think we all know that Biden (and his allied media) only doubted the feasibility of a warp speed vaccine in order to prevent trump from getting credit for a warp speed vaccine prior to the 2020 election. It's okay to admit that, on this one narrow issue, Biden was wrong and Trump was right.
I’ll definitely say that while what was said was “we have to be prudent and make sure we did our due diligence” it is not hard to come to the conclusion that the subtext was throwing shade at Trump and implying that he might have made bad vaccines. As it stands, Trump’s vaccine development and distribution was stellar, leaving Biden an easy time with making small changes and taking credit for a rollout that was already in motion by the time he took office. Whether it was throwing shade or just a standard statement of prudence is going to depend most highly on how charitable you are inclined to be.
On December 29 2021 15:03 plasmidghost wrote: Thought about it some more and I think I'm done with US politics as a whole. We're going to die in any number of ways soon, whether that be Covid or climate change, and the Dems and GOP will not do anything to stop it. Knowing that brings me some solace, as I won't have to be constantly stressed and depressed by every level of government in this country.
Do yourself a favor and take a break from politics at least. However bad things may or may not be, it isn’t worth losing your sanity over to think about it all the time.
how is the US record of vaccination anything but laughable with a paltry 61% vaccination rate? neither Trum nor Biden have managed to get it on a level comparable with other developed countries. And that is attributable to partisan division clearly sowed by Trump.
Btw what did Trump do but to mostly trivialise covid 19 and throw money at moderna? Whose technology (mrna) by the by has been funded for many administration and has like zero to do with any current president / government.
The antivax issue was a nonissue at the time of Trump’s presidency, when they had the opposite problem: not enough vaccines to go around. He funded development, and got production ramped up with the quickness. Biden disingenuously took credit for something like taking the numbers from 500k doses/day to 1 million, but Trump got to that 500k point from zero with some very rapid growth. Yes, some significant luck was involved in that a fly-by-night startup like Moderna that was US-based managed to have one of the big successful vaccines, but he threw money at all of them and got good priority on domestic vaccine availability in return. Definitely did better on availability than the EU, what with European factories sending all their good abroad before servicing local markets.
No doubt he would have failed to address the antivax problem when it became relevant if he had gotten re-elected. Biden certainly failed, and Trump’s attempts to say “get vaccinated” have done poorly. But you must have forgot that before antivax, we had to deal with availability in the first place. Trump succeeded there and Biden rode on the coattails of that, right after the whole “we can’t trust the Trump vaccine until the science people say we can” quip.
On December 29 2021 10:34 NrG.Bamboo wrote: [quote] RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Now that Trump is out of office, the press and others are willing to at least give him credit where it's due ("broken clock is right twice a day" type of thing). The facts show that trump has promoted the covid vaccine from the start. By any measure of what a president gets credit for, trump deserves credit for operation warp speed and the vaccines. (Which is funny because, prior to the 2020 election, dems and their allied media were united in expressing hesitancy towards any vaccine approved on an accelerated schedule during the trump admin. But that's politics - sometimes you've gotta express vaccine hesitancy during a global pandemic in order to defeat the other political party.)
For someone confidently declaring what the facts show you’ve included very few facts.
That politifact article is a good case study in the potential for fact checkers to be politically biased. It says "Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized." But Biden said, even according to that same article, "People don’t believe that [Trump is] telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." Clearly, Biden was raising questions about the vaccine itself, contrary to the politifact author's argument.
I didn’t say that Trump didn’t promote the vaccine so I don’t know why you’re bringing up that he did.
Biden was clearly suggesting that a politically motivated rush to roll the vaccine out ahead of schedule before trials were complete would raise questions about safety, especially given the context of Trump’s post-truth administration. Vaccines are safe because of how extensively they are tested. That’s why they’re so safe.
Biden said that a warp speed vaccine was "not likely" to have gone through the requisite trials. In doing so, Biden expressed hesitancy about a warp speed vaccine. And Biden, and many other trump critics, were wrong about the feasible timing of the vaccine.
I think we all know that Biden (and his allied media) only doubted the feasibility of a warp speed vaccine in order to prevent trump from getting credit for a warp speed vaccine prior to the 2020 election. It's okay to admit that, on this one narrow issue, Biden was wrong and Trump was right.
I’ll definitely say that while what was said was “we have to be prudent and make sure we did our due diligence” it is not hard to come to the conclusion that the subtext was throwing shade at Trump and implying that he might have made bad vaccines. As it stands, Trump’s vaccine development and distribution was stellar, leaving Biden an easy time with making small changes and taking credit for a rollout that was already in motion by the time he took office. Whether it was throwing shade or just a standard statement of prudence is going to depend most highly on how charitable you are inclined to be.
On December 29 2021 15:03 plasmidghost wrote: Thought about it some more and I think I'm done with US politics as a whole. We're going to die in any number of ways soon, whether that be Covid or climate change, and the Dems and GOP will not do anything to stop it. Knowing that brings me some solace, as I won't have to be constantly stressed and depressed by every level of government in this country.
Do yourself a favor and take a break from politics at least. However bad things may or may not be, it isn’t worth losing your sanity over to think about it all the time.
how is the US record of vaccination anything but laughable with a paltry 61% vaccination rate? neither Trum nor Biden have managed to get it on a level comparable with other developed countries. And that is attributable to partisan division clearly sowed by Trump.
Btw what did Trump do but to mostly trivialise covid 19 and throw money at moderna? Whose technology (mrna) by the by has been funded for many administration and has like zero to do with any current president / government.
The antivax issue was a nonissue at the time of Trump’s presidency, when they had the opposite problem: not enough vaccines to go around. He funded development, and got production ramped up with the quickness. Biden disingenuously took credit for something like taking the numbers from 500k doses/day to 1 million, but Trump got to that 500k point from zero with some very rapid growth. Yes, some significant luck was involved in that a fly-by-night startup like Moderna that was US-based managed to have one of the big successful vaccines, but he threw money at all of them and got good priority on domestic vaccine availability in return. Definitely did better on availability than the EU, what with European factories sending all their good abroad before servicing local markets.
No doubt he would have failed to address the antivax problem when it became relevant if he had gotten re-elected. Biden certainly failed, and Trump’s attempts to say “get vaccinated” have done poorly. But you must have forgot that before antivax, we had to deal with availability in the first place. Trump succeeded there and Biden rode on the coattails of that, right after the whole “we can’t trust the Trump vaccine until the science people say we can” quip.
I think people are forgetting that there was a very real fear that trump would pressure for approvals for an unsafe vaccine if it helped him get re-elected. He wouldn't care if it hurt people or was ineffective as long as it helped him out because he is a sociopath and a narcissist.
The democrats did not start this antivax bullshit. We were dealing with a very real threat to our democracy at the time, as can be seen from the Jan 6th insurrection. It was prudent to be skeptical until it was backed by respected authorities.
As I recall it, people were more afraid that Trumps retarded claims about bleach, ivermectin and other things will lead to people hurting themselves. People more worried about vaccine safety than covid itself arent the brightest of folks.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Yeah, he downplayed it to his crowd, that's because he was trying to get re-elected. I honestly don't know of the logistics of getting the vaccines out during the Trump vs Biden times, so I'll take your word that Biden is being more efficient. I just found it relevant to point out that he sort of was a part of pushing through the vaccines that you see him supporting as a saving grace for him.
And as far as Qanon goes, that's just a matter of perspective, man. You're telling me that a shocking number of Americans are dumb as shit, and 40 Republicans are playing to their audience? I can't help but be tickled a bit when someone remarks on how much of a problem it is.
You do realize that the Nazis literally used such wild conspiracy theories as a springboard to power and then the Holocaust happened? I'm not being hyperbolic here. A large segment of the voters and politicians being completely detached from reality can be extremely dangerous.
the good thing about QAnon followers is that they follow classic conspiracy patterns and will quickly move to whatever the new shiny thing is. They hold no true beliefs. Nazis convinced the moderates in the population to fear ridiculous things. But that happened over a long period. QAnon is fickle and is a nothing burger
On December 30 2021 01:56 JimmiC wrote: It is pretty hard to blame the Dems for vaccine hesitancy when the single largest factor that the vaccine hesitant have in common is political affiliation to the Republicans.
"The Democrats keep pushing for vaccines so you see, we had to be against it".
On December 30 2021 01:56 JimmiC wrote: It is pretty hard to blame the Dems for vaccine hesitancy when the single largest factor that the vaccine hesitant have in common is political affiliation to the Republicans.
Yeah you can cherry pick a few of the comments from the past, but it’s the Republican leaders and talking heads that have doomed our recovery efforts. People trust radio hosts and internet gurus over this stuff. And it trickles down into families and places of work. So if you spend 90% of your Covid time hesitating the audience over vaccines, get fucked. “Fauci lied, why is ivermectin banned? You know these experimental vaccines are not as effective as they said. I hear from people all the time that ____ . Blood clots are more serious than the 1% chance you get seriously sick from covid.”
Repeat variations of these for dozens of months and see what we get.
On December 30 2021 01:56 JimmiC wrote: It is pretty hard to blame the Dems for vaccine hesitancy when the single largest factor that the vaccine hesitant have in common is political affiliation to the Republicans.
On December 29 2021 02:58 Starlightsun wrote: I'm much more worried about congress than the next presidency. If the Republicans sweep congress then they will sabotage anything from being done for 2 years and then most likely ride that to presidential victory as well. Competitive races continue to disappear due to gerrymandering, and Trump seems quite interested in primarying Republicans who don't toe the line. So we might see not only Republican control of government again but an increasing number of Trump style politicians.
Were moving to a place where Trump is the Moderate Republican. He at least is pro vaccination. The out there Republicans now are full QaNon crazy (or at least playing that to the public).
RE: operation warp speed
Of course he's pro vaccination, it's something he worked to push into existence before his next run for office. I can't really stick up for qanon because it's dumb from start to finish, and as a conspiracy connoisseur it sucks to see the most dismissable ideas being brought to the public eye. Still funny though. Never stopped being funny.
Was he? Because it was months and months after when he admitted he had been vaccinated and then again a long time after he got his booster and his own fans boo'd him because they were surprised to find out. And many of his media supporters are apoligizing for him about it. Publically and privately he had been asked to suoport it but refused.
Yes he pushed it, and it had a cacthy name but it was not very well organized or funded pre biden.
Despite his involvement in spurring their development via Operation Warp Speed, Trump largely downplayed vaccines during his final months in office, and both Trump and First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in private before Joe Biden took office as the new president in January 2021
And QaNon is not funny, a shocking number of americans believe part or all of it including 40 Republicans in office.
Yeah, he downplayed it to his crowd, that's because he was trying to get re-elected. I honestly don't know of the logistics of getting the vaccines out during the Trump vs Biden times, so I'll take your word that Biden is being more efficient. I just found it relevant to point out that he sort of was a part of pushing through the vaccines that you see him supporting as a saving grace for him.
And as far as Qanon goes, that's just a matter of perspective, man. You're telling me that a shocking number of Americans are dumb as shit, and 40 Republicans are playing to their audience? I can't help but be tickled a bit when someone remarks on how much of a problem it is.
You do realize that the Nazis literally used such wild conspiracy theories as a springboard to power and then the Holocaust happened? I'm not being hyperbolic here. A large segment of the voters and politicians being completely detached from reality can be extremely dangerous.
the good thing about QAnon followers is that they follow classic conspiracy patterns and will quickly move to whatever the new shiny thing is. They hold no true beliefs. Nazis convinced the moderates in the population to fear ridiculous things. But that happened over a long period. QAnon is fickle and is a nothing burger
EPT
