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United States24782 Posts
On December 20 2021 00:09 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Manchin went on Fox and says he won't vote for BBB because he's concerned about adding to the national debt. This is probably the deathblow to the bill and what was going to be Biden's signature legislation. This was despite the White House saying a few days ago that talks were still going on, Manchin didn't entirely thumb it down and they believed it could pass by early next year. Either there's a newfound scramble for negotiations and they let Manchin write the bill or it goes down in flames entirely. Biden really can't afford to let this bill falter.
Subsequently, the White House came out with a statement that Manchin is contradicting what he most recently told the White House: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/12/19/statement-from-press-secretary-jen-psaki-4/
I wonder what actually drove the change in behavior.
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Why don't legislations have secondary or other options that can be quickly approved by those in favor, and people like Manchin can say I want option C, dont even talk to me about A-B. And then option C gets approved. Progressives don't love C, but they will take C over not passing the legislation.
Is there any video essays or simple articles that can explain why that process can't be done that easily? I would assume Democrats knew for a long time that people like Manchin and others would balk at some of the package, but early on say to him, can we get you if we dilute this down to C?
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On December 20 2021 11:19 Husyelt wrote:
Why don't legislations have secondary or other options that can be quickly approved by those in favor, and people like Manchin can say I want option C, dont even talk to me about A-B. And then option C gets approved. Progressives don't love C, but they will take C over not passing the legislation.
Is there any video essays or simple articles that can explain why that process can't be done that easily? I would assume Democrats knew for a long time that people like Manchin and others would balk at some of the package, but early on say to him, can we get you if we dilute this down to C?
Part of the problem has been that Democrats spent months trying to get Manchin to elaborate on what he didn't like, would like to see changed, what plan C would be acceptable, etc., and he just.... didn't. Elaborate. At all. So no video essay or anything necessary. The reason it couldn't be done that easily is because Manchin didn't provide any information to help develop a plan C.
It was a bit trying to find out what a toddler wants to eat when they won't say what they want and just say no to everything. All Democrats could do was just kept rewriting the bill in hopes of stumbling into something Manchin liked.
Sinema was kind of doing this whole "I don't like it, but I won't tell you why I don't like it or what I would like" thing, too.
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I agree with the basic idea they should still vote on it. It is ridiculous they won't let the vote happen without a promise of a vote. Let it burn, but let it at least be voted on.
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On December 20 2021 14:02 Mohdoo wrote:
I agree with the basic idea they should still vote on it. It is ridiculous they won't let the vote happen without a promise of a vote. Let it burn, but let it at least be voted on. I assume they feel a loss would reflect worse then not having a vote at all, or that voting and losing means it ends in the bin and that is that, no more negotiations to try and still get it through somehow despite it seeming impossible.
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Not voting also lets you keep people from having to materially show support or opposition to something. When you actually have to develop a track record of voting for or against things people want you to do you start being a lot easier to scrutinize.
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So they spent all this time placating to Manchin, and he still shuts the bill down, that's so bad. Looks like McConnell is still majority leader after all. What a fucked up situation.
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On December 20 2021 22:13 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So they spent all this time placating to Manchin, and he still shuts the bill down, that's so bad. Looks like McConnell is still majority leader after all. What a fucked up situation.
I feel like this happened to the ACA with the republicans. Its like the democrats fall for the same thing everytime. This time they didnt even get the votes to pass the legislation.
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Going for most instead of none and piecemeal the rest when possible seems like a no brainer.
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Frustrating. All data points to the fact that direct money to pocket payments are overwhelmingly not abused. Manchin seems to be one of those people that legitimately hates poor people and wants them to suffer into excellence. There's not much you can do with that. He is 74 years old. Its a really bad situation.
What I would like to see:
1) Cut CTC from BBB and enact it
2) Put a standalone CTC bill and label it "Extend the Trump Child Tax Cut"
Just blatantly pander and get it passed.
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Worth mentioning that apparently Manchin doesnt want the Child Tax Credit because he thinks poor people use the money on drugs.
Subhuman scumbag.
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On December 21 2021 09:11 Zambrah wrote:
Worth mentioning that apparently Manchin doesnt want the Child Tax Credit because he thinks poor people use the money on drugs.
Subhuman scumbag.
When you come from the number one pill addiction state, he’s likely not wrong, but it isn’t a reason to keep that money away from other people. People spend money on pills instead of rent and end up homeless. The child tax credit is not unique money. If you are hopelessly addicted to pills, money is pills
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He's not "technically" wrong, in the same sense I could say that TL is a place for fat virgin incels because there are probably a few of those who have visited TL before, so we should shut TL down.
Joe Manchin isnt worried about people doing drugs, he just hates poor people and thinks they deserve to suffer for the sin of being poor.
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Lol. Trump got booed for telling the audience at a Bill Oreilley event “You’re playing right into their hands when you doubt the vaccine.”
Random thoughts below
+ Show Spoiler +This means Bret and Heather Weinstein are somehow further down the spiral compared to Trump now.
Also, I won’t link it, but apparently Tucker Carlson has gotten even worse over the months. Asking why are we friends with Ukraine when Russia has more power? “Because we should like democracy” … “I guess.” And now bringing on a guest lambasting the military for being “gay and woman friendly and instead we should have soldiers that want to sit on a throne of Chinese skulls.”
I thought Fox was getting somewhat more moderate?
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On the bright side, BBB being in shambles means Biden has more reason to delay student loans lol
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On December 21 2021 12:11 Husyelt wrote:Lol. Trump got booed for telling the audience at a Bill Oreilley event “You’re playing right into their hands when you doubt the vaccine.” Random thoughts below + Show Spoiler +This means Bret and Heather Weinstein are somehow further down the spiral compared to Trump now.
Also, I won’t link it, but apparently Tucker Carlson has gotten even worse over the months. Asking why are we friends with Ukraine when Russia has more power? “Because we should like democracy” … “I guess.” And now bringing on a guest lambasting the military for being “gay and woman friendly and instead we should have soldiers that want to sit on a throne of Chinese skulls.”
I thought Fox was getting somewhat more moderate?
The Alpha Males Who Want To Sit On a Throne of Chinese Skulls shit was pretty horrifying tbh. That man is an absolute lunatic.
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What is the deal with the far right desperately trying to be macho all the time? I would feel sorry for them if it wasn't such a permanent thing and they weren't so power hungry.
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Fascists need their toxic macho manly man imagery or it doesn't work, hard to get people into your fascism when you're viewed as a "soyboy cuck," rather than an alpha sigma male.
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On December 21 2021 16:18 Starlightsun wrote:
What is the deal with the far right desperately trying to be macho all the time? I would feel sorry for them if it wasn't such a permanent thing and they weren't so power hungry.
Its just overcompensation for their insecurities.
You dont worry about minorities or "others" unless you have self esteem/self worth issues.
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EPT
