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On January 11 2015 08:27 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2015 05:43 Mike Tyson wrote:On January 10 2015 12:24 Jaaaaasper wrote:On January 10 2015 07:52 tadL wrote:
TL you treadet LoL like shit for long time and now you come back. I hope not to many forget this. Because your 180 turn flip jump is a good thing but you should write a big peace of excuse me to the people who tried to contribute in the past and the community.
Anways GL in LoL. You need some success as a Pro Gaming Team If you're this mad over liquid not following the same priorities as you you could always just leave. He does have a point imho. I recall the original release from Naz explaining why Liquid would support Dota 2 vs LOL....seems like a pretty quick change of heart that should be properly explained if Liquid Legends hopes to have any credibility with the LOL scene. I don't think it's that quick, personally. League has undergone quite a few changes since Victor's original comments, especially with the Summoner's Rift makeover for S5. On top of that, merging with an established League team eliminates a lot of the logistical work required to make a team from scratch, which means it makes a lot more business sense for a team that didn't want to put that kind of work into the game originally. To reiterate, Liquid didn't want to invest a huge amount of time and resources building up a League team from scratch; they preferred to do that with DotA 2. Curse came along and said, "We already have the players, management, and staff. We just need a brand." Done deal.
To reiterate, Liquid didn't want to invest a huge amount of time and resources building up a League team from scratch; they preferred to do that with DotA 2. Curse came along and said, "We already have the players, management, and staff. We just need a brand." Done deal.
Yes, that's what happened. But the question is WHY did it happen? Why did TL choose to make a Dota 2 team before a LoL team? A better fit? Raging fanboys as Monte put it? Was the idea of covering a ''game for casuals'' too repulsive, aka elitism? If they had the resources to form a Dota 2 team, surely they could have done the same for LoL? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't TL officially start covering Hearthstone before they started covering LoL?
Do notice that there's a difference between COVERING a game, and creating a team. When TL started covering Dota 2, they didn't have a team. (Or the team wasn't announced yet.) They simply started publishing articles and attempted to become a community site for Dota 2. They REFUSED to do that for LoL for years. Despite it being the number 1 e-sport in the world. Despite numerous talented writers on TL writing amazing articles.
Not starting a team in LoL is understandable if you lack the resources to do so. But why not at least cover it? Clear example from the opening post:
Of all the staff TL.net has had over the past 13 years, Fionn is one of the most talented writers we’ve had the pleasure of working with. After discovering us during our Brood War days, he became one of our marquee writers for StarCraft 2. His interest later shifted to League of Legends, and many of you will know him from his work on LoLesports.com. We're glad to have him back on board, and look forward to the quality articles he will put out with the rest of the writing staff.
Too bad he couldn't have his stuff promoted on TL. Guess they lacked the resources?
Here's the real reason why: Because TL wanted NOTHING to do with LoL. The SC / Dota 2 community especially wanted NOTHING to do with LoL. They hated LoL. Just look at some of the posts in this very thread. Can you imagine how bad the bashing was back in 2011-2012 when LoL took over? TL was probably the most concentrated cesspool of LoL hate in the internet at the time. And now it's suddenly a good thing that TL is moving to LoL? Now LoL suddenly is a-okay? It just seems so fake and it certainly leaves a bad taste to those of us who saw the hate first hand.
Now, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with TL going with Dota 2 - that's their choice. I'm not even saying that there's anything wrong with bashing LoL or giving it the finger. But at least be HONEST about the reasons why you chose Dota 2. At least be HONEST why you neglected LoL for years. There's no mention of that.
There's a reason why TL jumped the LoL bandwagon this late in to the game, and it has nothing to do with ''lack of resources.''
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Mexico2170 Posts
I'll tell you the reason:
Most TL staff like dota 2 more. Most TL stafff thought dota 2 was better. Most of TL staff and community didn't like LoL. So it made sense.
Now, some time has passed, A lot of TL staff actually likes lol. A lot of the community has finally acceped that LoL is the biggest e-sport right now even if its more casual. Some may not like it, but most don't hate it anymore. People hated LoL because it was the game that was starting to steal the spotlight from the best e-sport ever sc2, the true esport! the best esport!. But now, most people, don't care very much. Me for example "hated" lol. but now, i don't particulary care, i don't play it, and i even kind of like it now, its jsut that i like heroes more because of the short games.
So i guess a lot of people see it that way, including victor and the TL staff, and when the oportunity arose to have another team, increasing the revenue (maybe? i hope, because giving away half of TL to another guy idk if its a good idea, but thats another topic), they did it. Maybe some are not passsioned about the game, maybe for victor is a "strictly" buissness decition, but there are a lot of the TL staff, and those curse guys who are very passionate about the game. I don't think theres more to it than that.
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i don't think there's a much hate for LoL as you think, but there's a lot more crossover between the Dota2 and SC2 community than there is the lol and sc2 community, especially 2 years ago. That was more of the driving decision
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On January 12 2015 05:03 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
I'll tell you the reason:
Most TL staff like dota 2 more. Most TL stafff thought dota 2 was better. Most of TL staff and community didn't like LoL. So it made sense.
Now, some time has passed, A lot of TL staff actually likes lol. A lot of the community has finally acceped that LoL is the biggest e-sport right now even if its more casual. Some may not like it, but most don't hate it anymore. People hated LoL because it was the game that was starting to steal the spotlight from the best e-sport ever sc2, the true esport! the best esport!. But now, most people, don't care very much. Me for example "hated" lol. but now, i don't particulary care, i don't play it, and i even kind of like it now, its jsut that i like heroes more because of the short games.
So i guess a lot of people see it that way, including victor and the TL staff, and when the oportunity arose to have another team, increasing the revenue (maybe? i hope, because giving away half of TL to another guy idk if its a good idea, but thats another topic), they did it. Maybe some are not passsioned about the game, maybe for victor is a "strictly" buissness decition, but there are a lot of the TL staff, and those curse guys who are very passionate about the game. I don't think theres more to it than that.
Agreed. It is certainly true that the attitude has changed and is better then it used to be.
I just find it annoying when apologists go ''They had no resources! There are good and valid reasons why TL completely ignored LoL! It had nothing to do with TL hating LoL! TL staff never said anything!'' etc etc. Yeah, no.
As mentioned above, I just think it's in poor taste and dis-respectful to the LoL community as a whole to ignore TLs history with LoL. The least they could is at least acknowledge it.
And your right, there have been a lot of people who have been very passionate about LoL here on TL for a VERY long time. Too bad none of them got any official recognition until this merge.
And I agree - this is a business move, nothing else.
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On January 12 2015 05:42 NonFactor wrote:
I just find it annoying when apologists go ''They had no resources! There are good and valid reasons why TL completely ignored LoL! It had nothing to do with TL hating LoL! TL staff never said anything!'' etc etc. Yeah, no.
As mentioned above, I just think it's in poor taste and dis-respectful to the LoL community as a whole to ignore TLs history with LoL. The least they could is at least acknowledge it.
I wasn't being apologetic. I thought I was pretty clear that Liquid preferred to spend their resources covering DotA 2. That implicitly means they liked DotA more. Ultimately most of the staff are volunteers, so if their preference is with DotA 2 then that's where you're gonna have the passion directed toward. I was just noting the improved quality of League in response to some people bringing up Victor's old comments toward the game, matched with the opportunity to be involved with the game without any real change on the part of current TL staff; almost all the staff passionate about League come from the former-Curse side or are returning members like Fionn. TL now has the staff and resources to cover both games with the merger, with each group of staff being passionate about their respective game(s).
Basically all I'm saying is we're gonna have a passionate TL League community, and TL's previous position regarding the game is no longer relevant.
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TL went with dota because their staff preferred dota. Monte is still and always has been a moron and a blight on the lol scene. Its not blind lol hating, tl staff preferred lol on a personal level, and thats why they went with lol. They never ruled out going to lol, they went with dota first becuase they enjoyed it more. The fact that lol players take monte seriously is a mark against the scene.
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I think Liquid realised their fanbase would've hated them covering LoL when it beat SC2 as the biggest esport in 2012. Now that SC2's fans have evaporated to a hardcore base, the fans left only care about Starcraft, and probably accept that LoL's bigger or don't care. That's my take on it. TL has less to lose than to gain now that SC2's fanbase has distilled into hardcore fans.
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On January 11 2015 05:43 Mike Tyson wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 12:24 Jaaaaasper wrote:On January 10 2015 07:52 tadL wrote:
TL you treadet LoL like shit for long time and now you come back. I hope not to many forget this. Because your 180 turn flip jump is a good thing but you should write a big peace of excuse me to the people who tried to contribute in the past and the community.
Anways GL in LoL. You need some success as a Pro Gaming Team If you're this mad over liquid not following the same priorities as you you could always just leave. He does have a point imho. I recall the original release from Naz explaining why Liquid would support Dota 2 vs LOL....seems like a pretty quick change of heart that should be properly explained if Liquid Legends hopes to have any credibility with the LOL scene.
You mean this?
We understand that League right now is the biggest game with the largest player base. But this isn't purely a business or numbers decision for TL. At this moment, taking into account our existing core audience (StarCraft fans), we believe that Dota 2 should be the game we add to our coverage. It "fits" TL's style, and it's very popular among our staff, who play and watch the game as well as visit sites like r/dota2
So more staff starting watch LoL and they were given the opportunity to pick up a LoL team so they did. Seems to fit and not to be out of character and it also never says anything bad about LoL on the contrary it says that LoL is the biggest game in eSports... Wow all the salt with no background
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Hey Steve,
You had great things to say about the team and I am a strong beleaver that it will show in s5 LCS. I counting on you to win worlds and start NA on the path of teamwork over "just farm" attitude.
Much Love to Team Liquid,
Dan Dugger
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Canada11369 Posts
I don't know about the team side, because I'm just a banling. But I do remember the conversations over LoL coverage, and there was always a fear of becoming jack of all trades, master of none. That is TL is what TL is because we cover certain competitive games super indepth. We're not a generic gaming site like Kotaku. TL has always had a contingent of staff very interested in LoL, writing articles. There's also staff like me that play LoL casually and have never played Dota 2- but people like me are not helpful as I don't have the drive to contribute anything to LoL. The point being that if TL was going to officially go after LoL, they wanted to do it with excellence and not dilute their brand with an enthusiastic swing at LoL, but with no follow through. At the time, it was felt it could be either dota or lol, but not both.
That was then, this was now. Maybe the continued strength of the LoL scene made it more attractive (not a flash in the pan), maybe the relative success of splitting sites with combined General subforums, has made the idea more tenable-- can you imagine at the time if we had the reborn BW, SC2, Dota 2, Hearth, AND LoL all filtering through one featured news? News items would be bumped out of the featured slot the very same day they were posted. Also, while there were lots of willing writers, it seems on the admin side, there weren't people that were looking to run a LoL team. The combination of TL and Cursed, suddenly brings those people on board, now we have a team, now there's a big incentive to increase TL's coverage on LoL.
Mostly speculation on my part because I'm not at all involved with that sort of decision-making, but I don't they are unreasonable inferences. Could TL have covered LoL in the past in greater way? Maybe, probably. But I don't think it was unreasonable to wait and see, and slowly expand rather than leaping at each and every game immediately. We still don't want to become Kotaku, so when we go for another game, we'll do it with excellence.
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Congrats on the LoL guys, you waited long and hard!
Also woo another subforum removed from Teamliquid.net , it's truly starting to look like it should again!
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Disregard I'm a dumb dumb
+ Show Spoiler +Yup just gotta remove that ugly top game section and it looks perfect
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On January 12 2015 12:41 ShadeR wrote:
Liquid made a good deal.
The guy, not the team. 50% o_o.
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For clarification, I'm a dumb and had everything but other games bw and community hidden. Disregard my previous post.
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liquid will get secret.
curse got the moneyz.
secret didn't tell their sponsor until this deal was clear...
obvious shit is obvious?
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On January 13 2015 04:52 ZAiNs wrote:The guy, not the team. 50% o_o.
have you never taken a class in basic finance or some shit
it's a merger, not an acquisition
how would you lose assets in a merger
assuming tl and curse were equal in net worth, liquid just gained 100% of their net value
it's like implying that a company loses money & control in an ipo lmfao
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On January 13 2015 05:05 Velr wrote:
liquid will get secret.
curse got the moneyz.
secret didn't tell their sponsor until this deal was clear...
obvious shit is obvious?
That would be interesting. But Secret will be pretty damn expensive. Don't think Liquid has the resources for that, even with the Curse merger.
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On January 13 2015 06:06 dizzy101 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 05:05 Velr wrote:
liquid will get secret.
curse got the moneyz.
secret didn't tell their sponsor until this deal was clear...
obvious shit is obvious? That would be interesting. But Secret will be pretty damn expensive. Don't think Liquid has the resources for that, even with the Curse merger.
Curse has the strongest point at one point before curse.com lost interest. Curse brought a lot of sponsors with them and liquid isn't as low income as some people seem to think. I'm not saying that they are the mystery sponsor, but they could be.
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Im so happy and proud of teamliquid! After so many years being a member of this great site and community, im still surprised about the growing of tl.net, and im confident of his future. Congratz Nazgul and all tl.net staff, you are great as always!!
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EPT
