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Gorsameth
Netherlands21858 Posts
On April 16 2016 19:28 xM(Z wrote: ZDF Heute Show about 3 weeks(?) ago called the queen “ancient grandma from the dynasty of the horse faced”(not my translation) then shat all over brits. was anyone sued?; was there no plaintiff?. Because only Edoran is playing insecure, wannebe dictator. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
it's a translation on the whole Böhmermann thinggie+ Show Spoiler + So as Böhmermann's 'poem' has caused quite a stir, and many here had asked for a translation, I just made one. Note: The important part is NOT the actual poem, but the context and what Böhmermann said in its' further explanation. For the guys of you able to understand German, here is the video in its' full context (starts at 10:50 min): Jan Böhmermann, Neo Magazin Royal 31.3.2016 uncut Ralf Kabelka is Jan Böhmermann's sidekick: Beginning: Böhmermann: Welcome to Germany's comedy show NR. 1. It's us. We don't have anything to do with satire. What our colleagues of extra3 did... we're not as thorough as them. Respect to them, big thing they made. That's a different league, like heute-show as-well. I really, really like the heute-show. They're sooo brilliant. When I heard rumors in the past, we were looking for their spot or anything Olli Welke hosts... Noooo, not at all Olli! Best wishes to you! [blows kiss to camera] I am suuuch a big fan of yours, I always watch your show for... for... errr... „inspiration“. Also, the Satire by extra3 almost started the third world war. Big applause for that! Super-song. And apparently in Turkey every, even the smallest satire or comedy show is being watched. So presumably, you also watch our show. Dear Turks, hello, when you watch this here. Maybe we need to explain something to you...? What our colleagues from extra3 did, was to make fun of your politics, Mr. Erdogan. That's legal in Germany and Europe through freedom of arts, freedom of media and freedom of speech. Kabelka: „By Article 5!“ Böhmermann: Article 5 of our constitution! That's legal. Criticism of politicians is legal! You can't come here and tell the government to withdraw satire or delete it from the internet. This is completely legal here. And I really enjoyed, how civil society stood up this week. Beatrix von Storch, who wanted me shot, if I remember correctly, two weeks ago, because of the BeDeutsch-video. And now all of a sudden, she's in first row, when it's about to defend freedom of arts and speech. Everyone agrees, satire needs to be allowed. Je suis extra3! Mr. Erdogan, but there are of course examples, that aren't legal. On one side, there's justified criticism, satire and fun, which is legal. And on the other side there's „abusive criticism“, which is illegal. „Abusive criticism“, that's a juridical term. Kabelka: „If you plainly insult people, defame people in personal regards, degrade people just to degrade them.“ Böhmermann: To degrade someone is „abusive criticism“? And that's illegal? Kabelka: „Yes.“ Böhmermann: Did you understand that, Mr. Erdogan? Kabelka: „It can be prosecuted.“ Böhmermann: It can even be prosecuted? And then video can be withdrawn from the internet? Kabelka: „Yes, but only afterwards.“ Böhmermann: It may be a bit complicated for you, Mr. Erdogan. Maybe we'll explain it by a practical example. I've got this 'poem' here, it's named „abusive criticism“. May we have a Turkish styled version of a song by Nena? And may we have a Turkish flag in the background? Fine! What comes next would be illegal? Kabelka: „Would be illegal.“ Böhmermann: This would be considered illegal. The 'poem' is named „abusive criticism“: „Sod-dumb, cowardly and hesitant/ Is Erdogan the President/ His boner smells like Döner/ Even a pig's fart smells finer/ He's the man who punches girls/ while wearing a bloody rubber mask/ Things he loves the most/ is shagging goats/ and oppressing minorities This kind of criticism would be illegal! Kicking Kurds, beating up Christians/ while watching child porn/ And in the evening instead of a nap/ Fellatio with a hundred sheep/ Erdogan is all things considered/ a President with a tiny wang/ I repeat this is an example of what would be illegal! Kabelka: „One would not be allowed to say that“ Böhmermann: Every Turk can be heard whispering:/ This dumb pig has got shrivel-balls/ From Ankara to Istanbul/ Everyone knows this man is gay/ perverted and zoophil/ Recep Fritzl Priklopil/ His head as empty as his balls/ the star guest on every gang-bang party/ until his tiny wang starts to burn while having a piss/ That's Reccep Erdogan“ This is what would NOT be legal by freedom of arts! Hey, don't applaud! What would happen next? Kabelka: „It would be withdrawn from the mediathek, f.i..“ Böhmermann: So, Erdogan would need to take a lawyer!? I'll say Dr. is a great lawyer. Kabelka: „Yes, he's the lawyer of the mayor of Berlin and others.“ Böhmermann: Mr. Erdogan, visit this lawyer, tell him you've watched something you don't like: „abusive criticism“. Then you'd visit a court. Get a restraining order there. Then we'd have a legal case. Does that become clear to you? I really enjoyed, as a citizen of Germany, now after months of disputes and arguments, we finally had a consensus again. When its' about despots, when it comes to politicians, who go against freedom, like only despots do: Erdogan, Victor Orban, Beata Shit-lo, Beata Shit-lo from the Piss-Party, the Prime Minister of great neighboring country Poland, Marine LePen from the [acts like vomiting] Front National, Pim Fortuyn in the Netherlands [most likely confused him with Geert Wilders], HC Strache from the FPÖ. They're all authoritarian, nationalistic wannabe despots. Also Frauke Petry, here, of course. All these are people, who more people should go against. Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump. I really appreciate we resist these guys self-confidently. Who cuts the rights of other people, needs to get his own rights cut. END He basically did something, like this comedian from the US: Whitest Kids U Know: It's illegal to say... looks like knowingly and purposely pushing boundaries and/or nerves. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21858 Posts
On April 16 2016 19:42 xM(Z wrote: found this on reddit; i don't know what's the protocol for reddit links so i'll just quote the text. it's a translation on the whole Böhmermann thinggie+ Show Spoiler + So as Böhmermann's 'poem' has caused quite a stir, and many here had asked for a translation, I just made one. Note: The important part is NOT the actual poem, but the context and what Böhmermann said in its' further explanation. For the guys of you able to understand German, here is the video in its' full context (starts at 10:50 min): Jan Böhmermann, Neo Magazin Royal 31.3.2016 uncut Ralf Kabelka is Jan Böhmermann's sidekick: Beginning: Böhmermann: Welcome to Germany's comedy show NR. 1. It's us. We don't have anything to do with satire. What our colleagues of extra3 did... we're not as thorough as them. Respect to them, big thing they made. That's a different league, like heute-show as-well. I really, really like the heute-show. They're sooo brilliant. When I heard rumors in the past, we were looking for their spot or anything Olli Welke hosts... Noooo, not at all Olli! Best wishes to you! [blows kiss to camera] I am suuuch a big fan of yours, I always watch your show for... for... errr... „inspiration“. Also, the Satire by extra3 almost started the third world war. Big applause for that! Super-song. And apparently in Turkey every, even the smallest satire or comedy show is being watched. So presumably, you also watch our show. Dear Turks, hello, when you watch this here. Maybe we need to explain something to you...? What our colleagues from extra3 did, was to make fun of your politics, Mr. Erdogan. That's legal in Germany and Europe through freedom of arts, freedom of media and freedom of speech. Kabelka: „By Article 5!“ Böhmermann: Article 5 of our constitution! That's legal. Criticism of politicians is legal! You can't come here and tell the government to withdraw satire or delete it from the internet. This is completely legal here. And I really enjoyed, how civil society stood up this week. Beatrix von Storch, who wanted me shot, if I remember correctly, two weeks ago, because of the BeDeutsch-video. And now all of a sudden, she's in first row, when it's about to defend freedom of arts and speech. Everyone agrees, satire needs to be allowed. Je suis extra3! Mr. Erdogan, but there are of course examples, that aren't legal. On one side, there's justified criticism, satire and fun, which is legal. And on the other side there's „abusive criticism“, which is illegal. „Abusive criticism“, that's a juridical term. Kabelka: „If you plainly insult people, defame people in personal regards, degrade people just to degrade them.“ Böhmermann: To degrade someone is „abusive criticism“? And that's illegal? Kabelka: „Yes.“ Böhmermann: Did you understand that, Mr. Erdogan? Kabelka: „It can be prosecuted.“ Böhmermann: It can even be prosecuted? And then video can be withdrawn from the internet? Kabelka: „Yes, but only afterwards.“ Böhmermann: It may be a bit complicated for you, Mr. Erdogan. Maybe we'll explain it by a practical example. I've got this 'poem' here, it's named „abusive criticism“. May we have a Turkish styled version of a song by Nena? And may we have a Turkish flag in the background? Fine! What comes next would be illegal? Kabelka: „Would be illegal.“ Böhmermann: This would be considered illegal. The 'poem' is named „abusive criticism“: „Sod-dumb, cowardly and hesitant/ Is Erdogan the President/ His boner smells like Döner/ Even a pig's fart smells finer/ He's the man who punches girls/ while wearing a bloody rubber mask/ Things he loves the most/ is shagging goats/ and oppressing minorities This kind of criticism would be illegal! Kicking Kurds, beating up Christians/ while watching child porn/ And in the evening instead of a nap/ Fellatio with a hundred sheep/ Erdogan is all things considered/ a President with a tiny wang/ I repeat this is an example of what would be illegal! Kabelka: „One would not be allowed to say that“ Böhmermann: Every Turk can be heard whispering:/ This dumb pig has got shrivel-balls/ From Ankara to Istanbul/ Everyone knows this man is gay/ perverted and zoophil/ Recep Fritzl Priklopil/ His head as empty as his balls/ the star guest on every gang-bang party/ until his tiny wang starts to burn while having a piss/ That's Reccep Erdogan“ This is what would NOT be legal by freedom of arts! Hey, don't applaud! What would happen next? Kabelka: „It would be withdrawn from the mediathek, f.i..“ Böhmermann: So, Erdogan would need to take a lawyer!? I'll say Dr. is a great lawyer. Kabelka: „Yes, he's the lawyer of the mayor of Berlin and others.“ Böhmermann: Mr. Erdogan, visit this lawyer, tell him you've watched something you don't like: „abusive criticism“. Then you'd visit a court. Get a restraining order there. Then we'd have a legal case. Does that become clear to you? I really enjoyed, as a citizen of Germany, now after months of disputes and arguments, we finally had a consensus again. When its' about despots, when it comes to politicians, who go against freedom, like only despots do: Erdogan, Victor Orban, Beata Shit-lo, Beata Shit-lo from the Piss-Party, the Prime Minister of great neighboring country Poland, Marine LePen from the [acts like vomiting] Front National, Pim Fortuyn in the Netherlands [most likely confused him with Geert Wilders], HC Strache from the FPÖ. They're all authoritarian, nationalistic wannabe despots. Also Frauke Petry, here, of course. All these are people, who more people should go against. Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump. I really appreciate we resist these guys self-confidently. Who cuts the rights of other people, needs to get his own rights cut. END He basically did something, like this comedian from the US: Whitest Kids U Know: It's illegal to say... looks like knowingly and purposely pushing boundaries and/or nerves. Erodans actions in Turkey itself showed how thin his skin is, prosecuting people for speaking against him. That tends to make people poke at you all the more. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 16 2016 19:28 xM(Z wrote: ZDF Heute Show about 3 weeks(?) ago called the queen “ancient grandma from the dynasty of the horse faced”(not my translation) then shat all over brits. was anyone sued?; was there no plaintiff?. Last time I looked the Queen isn't trying to consilidate total state power into herself. She could very well be doing so, but the Queen isn't trying to prevent all criticism by throw thousands of journalists in jail. Also tradition of free speech yadda yadda yadda. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
On April 16 2016 18:07 Banaora wrote: I think you didn't get what Böhmermann did: + Show Spoiler + He called Erdogan a pedophile with a micro penis who likes to fuck goats and beat little girls. He said the cock of Turkey's president smells so badly like Kebab that even a pig's fart smells better. This is slander and it's illegal in Germany. It could be that considering the circumstances it may go through as satire, because it was on a satirical show where Boehmermann wanted to point out the difference between satire and slander. Can't help but feel that Hustler v. Falwell is relevant here. On April 16 2016 02:38 DickMcFanny wrote: If there's one thing we can learn from the USA, it's freedom of speech. Absolutely, though the clearest examples of this are not the ones which usually get talked about. Holocaust denial is illegal in France and Germany and, while this isn't a popular opinion, it's an obvious and egregious abridgement of free speech. What am I saying? Not a popular opinion? It's the sort of opinion which invites specialists in a certain kind of histrionics to call you evil which sort of shuts down debate around it. However the fact remains that if you want to say that the annihilation of the native people's of the new world was a good thing, or black America are lucky they were enslaved or they'd be living in Africa still or debate the historical significance / facts of any other event of comparable horror then off you go, have fun. That you can say anything you want about French actions in North Africa but ask the wrong questions about the holocaust and you end up in Jail is what pisses comedians like Dieudonne off so profoundly. It was the source of his controversial ditty "shoananas" in english: "Holocaust Pineapple". To explain the humour more clearly - Pineapple wasn't an arbitrarily sourced food stuff for the joke, it's sourced from his memories of the portrayal of Africans in French popular when he was a kid. Perhaps a better translation into English might be "Holocaust Watermelon". Of course Holocaust denial isn't illegal in the U.K. However Dieudonne was stopped from coming to the U.K. because of his jokes and we were very pleased with ourselves. In a less well known case the same law was used to keep an American out which you may have more sympathy with, Tyler the Creator. So perhaps we avoid these problems by just keeping everyone interesting out of our Country... At least you could maintain that fiction until you look at our Libel laws. British Libel laws are a scandal and in many cases amount to the privatisation of free speech. Notoriously expensive and long winded you can only really walk into a libel court in the U.K. if you have a lot of money. This is why our newspapers can easily and effectively libel individuals who claim welfare, holding them up to public ridicule because they are "shirkers not workers" but if a private individual alleges that the Barclay Brothers are inveterate tax evaders they better hope that the case is decided in their favour before they run out of equity on their house. But, oh wait, I forgot. The reason speech isn't free in Europe is because of da Muslims and da safe spaces. Je Suis Victim! I really have to pat the Western Middle classes on the back for finding a way to work themselves into a hysteria about free speech in a way that threatens exactly no one with any real power in the countries they publish in. Way to go guys! | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6237 Posts
On April 17 2016 02:09 oneofthem wrote: lol just lol if this case isn't just thrown out. clear political satire Even jf it is not satire it should he thrown out. No need to be intimidated by that jackass called Erdoğan. It's pretty sad really since Turkey has a lot of potential and he's just ruining it atm (though his predecessors weren't better). | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
A huge number of people from across the UK marched in London, calling for an end to government austerity measures and the resignation of Prime Minister David Cameron. It's estimated up to 150,000 people, including demonstrators from trade unions and a range of organizations campaigning on health, education, housing and jobs joined the march. The anti-government rally kicked off at 2pm and reached Trafalgar Square, where anti-austerity councillors and event organizer the People's Assembly Against Austerity addressed the crowd. Today’s rally follows last Saturday’s protest, which saw crowds gathered outside 10 Downing Street demanding Cameron’s resignation in the wake of the Panama Papers leak that exposed his late father’s offshore dealings. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
The BBC: famous for being to the left of Marx has, oddly, decided to protect power and privilege instead. How entirely unlike them. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9233 Posts
On April 17 2016 22:57 Dapper_Cad wrote: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/721474450319937537 The BBC: famous for being to the left of Marx has, oddly, decided to protect power and privilege instead. How entirely unlike them. Did he fuck up the formatting or I just cannot into Twitter? edit: the latter | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
Böhmermann will not be -hopefully- punished because his action was just giving an example of what would not be free speech, however Erdogan still can be offended and sue him, that's the thing with democracy, that does not make him a dictator or anti-democratic (but insecure) , he is seeking his rights that's all. It's quite joyous to see Germans hating Merkel as she is being more and more liberal with her policies. Yeah, she maybe hiding a secret economical partnership beneath this Turkish friendly behavior, but that's still a good thing, isn't it? On April 16 2016 07:28 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: A thought just occurred to me, political cartoons. Say a German newspaper posts a Political Cartoon poking fun of Erdoğan. Who has shut down Newspapers. Erdoğan does not like this. Merkel by definition could decide to take them to court. No? It was Turkish government that shut down Zaman, not Erdogan. And Zaman has been shut because of their illegal actions including treason, data stealing, laundry, blackmailing and more. It was an ultra religious newspaper what has been widely known for their appetite for changing Turkish regime into sharia law from secular law. You guys seem wise enough to catch asslicking, falsifying, agenda monitoring of your local media but fail it every time when its done by global one which has a long history with similar issues. They never care for the details or the real matter behind the incidents, is a newspaper shut down? STARTT THEEE D-DDRAMAA. I personally didn't see a turk neither from opposition nor erdogan's side who wasn't happy about Zaman close. Why does it bother you anyways? PS: Poem was also racist, when you call the president of another country "goat-fucker" we all know your level of racism. Böhmermann is one. Which is in deed, deepdown more dangerous than Erdogan, Turkey, Merkel, ISIS or whatever you want to spill your hatred over *imo* | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On April 19 2016 09:17 lastpuritan wrote: You wrote such a nice text making good points and then you step into the most obvious trap. PS: Poem was also racist, when you call the president of another country "goat-fucker" we all know your level of racism. Böhmermann is one.  Do you not realize that Böhmermann pushed all possible buttons? That he is just as serious about Erdogan being zoophile as he is beating women or watching child porn (meaning not serious at all). I guess we all have our triggers, and yours just falsely activated... | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10777 Posts
The only groupes he barely ever attacked are immigrants, religious people and liberals in general. Some of his stuff is great, some not... He fires many shots, he misses a lot but sometimes he is really spot on. The Gangsterrap parody was great for a lot of reasons, it is actually is a decent song, the message is not only attacking the rap Scene but also the police (if you actually listen) and on top of it was just really well done. Btw: "I don't think he understands that these people actually live in this country and aren't just cardboards for his Satire", yeah, because making fun of Groups/People that actually exist is somehow something new or bad... Are you for real? | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
I think you underestimate his humor. I am not the greatest fan of his, by I can recognize the intend of his satire. The gangster rap parody is a good example. It is very clear, that he is totally into German rap (see his 'history of rap' with Dendemann). That is what made the parody so authentic. He did not make shallow fun of rap like Weird Al or the like. He took their style of rapping, their antics, their exaggerations and poke fun at a very specific aspect of their scene. Namely their humorlessness stemming form a lack of introspection. So he turned their usual topic (police hate) on its head, while at the same time delivering some blows to the police. Because at the end of the day, for all his pretense, he does in fact respect these rap guys, he just does not respect cheap fake gangster lyrics. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28695 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + it's more than a year old and not really relevant anymore but it's still hilarious. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afl9WFGJE0M) | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10777 Posts
as long as you guys don't decide to sart wars, europe will be fine. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
On April 20 2016 04:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: oh wow never realized böhmermann was the guy behind v for varoufakis. That one is high up on my list of favorite youtube videos. ;p + Show Spoiler + it's more than a year old and not really relevant anymore but it's still hilarious. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afl9WFGJE0M) That was absolutely fantastic. Would have only been better if they'd have got Varoufakis. | ||
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