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On October 09 2013 05:03 farvacola wrote:
TotalBalanceSC2, have you read Henry David Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience"? It does a good of job of explaining why it is civically defensible to break bad laws and ignore their legal prerogative when one wishes to have them changed.
I have not and I am rather busy at the present moment but perhaps if I have more free time at some point I'll pick it up.
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The silk road has been re created by someone else apparently:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2013/11/silk-road-illicit-online-market-reopens-2013116191645668363.html
A new anonymous internet marketplace for illegal drugs has opened, with the same name and appearance as the Silk Road website shut down by US law enforcement authorities a month ago.
Like its predecessor, the new Silk Road listed hundreds of advertisements for controlled substances available to buy using the anonymous Bitcoin digital currency.
On October 1, the Federal Bureau of Investigation shut down the original Silk Road and arrested its alleged mastermind, Ross William Ulbricht, 29, known online as "Dread Pirate Roberts", in San Francisco.
"It took the FBI two-and-a-half years to do what they did...but four weeks of temporary silence is all they got," a site administrator wrote, also using the "Dread Pirate Roberts" pseudonym, when the site opened on Wednesday.
A new Twitter account was also launched in conjunction with the site's re-emergence.
Multi-million dollar marketplace
The FBI declined to comment on the new version of the Silk Road. For more than two years, the original site allowed users to buy and sell illegal goods and services on the assumption that they were safe from the law.
Deliveries were made through the mail in discrete packages. US authorities also say Ulbricht had tried to have a user who had threatened to expose the identities of thousands of Silk Road users killed.
The charges against Ulbricht said his website generated sales of more than 9.5 million Bitcoins, roughly equivalent to $1.2 billion.
The new website uses improved technology meant to keep identities secret, including measures to keep users from losing their Bitcoins in case the site shuts down, according to the new Dread Pirate Roberts.
Like the original Silk Road, users access the new site using a no-cost, anti-surveillance service known as the Tor network instead of traditional web browsers.
"The Silk Road has risen once more...Open communication with your old suppliers and customers, let this wonderful news be taken to all corners of the Tor Network and beyond," the new administrator wrote.
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I wonder how long its gonna take them to shut that one down, also this new "Dread Pirate Roberts" is acting like he is invincible, much like the other one. I seriously wonder who would be stupid enough to use it now that they've known the FBI: A)Has no comment regarding it, and B)Know the FBI has cracked both Tor and the original web servers.
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On November 07 2013 05:33 FromShouri wrote:
I wonder how long its gonna take them to shut that one down, also this new "Dread Pirate Roberts" is acting like he is invincible, much like the other one. I seriously wonder who would be stupid enough to use it now that they've known the FBI: A)Has no comment regarding it, and B)Know the FBI has cracked both Tor and the original web servers.
hubris is always a good trait out of your illegal suppliers.
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I'm with Shiori 100% on what he's been saying over the last few pages and I'm pleased he's taking the time to post here. My +1 will have to suffice for the moment.
I don't know why everyone is so upset about this hit tbh..... unless I'm mistaken the person was threatening to reveal the identities of people who were using an anonymous service online to obtain substances they desired that their government due to greed and ignorance has illegalised. These people could get in trouble, but they don't deserve to tbh... He can't go running to the police/government because they're the ones who caused this problem in the first place... I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers...
Now that he has been caught, I don't see any death threats being sent to "anyone in the FBI" or anything like that. He's not some crazy maniac who likes to kill people or doesn't understand that FBI/Police are mostly genuine nice people working an important job in the country. He knew the game and the risks, and now he's been busted, but he was willing to do some heavy shit to protect the customers of his site because he knew that's what is right.
small scale example... I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs. A policeman comes up and arrests me. I might say the law is unjust etc etc... but at the end of the day he's just doing his job and I would hold no grudge against the individual. Now imagine I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs and some guy approaches me and tells me that he is going to turn my latest customer into the police for buying drugs. I'd think that guy was a dick and likely give him a bop.
To expand further, once the threat was made he probably should have issued a public statement saying he would close the site to protect the people that used it. That doesn't really solve the problem though, other sites will be made and the cycle repeats. Either way, screaming "omg murderer" seems a little close-minded to me.
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"I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers..."
Wait, what?
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On November 07 2013 06:17 Reason wrote:
I'm with Shiori 100% on what he's been saying over the last few pages and I'm pleased he's taking the time to post here. My +1 will have to suffice for the moment.
I don't know why everyone is so upset about this hit tbh..... unless I'm mistaken the person was threatening to reveal the identities of people who were using an anonymous service online to obtain substances they desired that their government due to greed and ignorance has illegalised. These people could get in trouble, but they don't deserve to tbh... He can't go running to the police/government because they're the ones who caused this problem in the first place... I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers...
Now that he has been caught, I don't see any death threats being sent to "anyone in the FBI" or anything like that. He's not some crazy maniac who likes to kill people or doesn't understand that FBI/Police are mostly genuine nice people working an important job in the country. He knew the game and the risks, and now he's been busted, but he was willing to do some heavy shit to protect the customers of his site because he knew that's what is right.
small scale example... I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs. A policeman comes up and arrests me. I might say the law is unjust etc etc... but at the end of the day he's just doing his job and I would hold no grudge against the individual. Now imagine I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs and some guy approaches me and tells me that he is going to turn my latest customer into the police for buying drugs. I'd think that guy was a dick and likely give him a bop.
To expand further, once the threat was made he probably should have issued a public statement saying he would close the site to protect the people that used it. That doesn't really solve the problem though, other sites will be made and the cycle repeats. Either way, screaming "omg murderer" seems a little close-minded to me.
Those bolded parts....they really lead me to believe you need to step back and seriously analyze your views on life. It's never OK to murder people just because they're threatening to reveal the identities of your illegal business's customers. What life experiences have you gone through to think that MURDERING people is an acceptable business strategy?
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On November 07 2013 06:38 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:
"I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers..."
Wait, what?
You missed something?
On November 07 2013 06:43 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:17 Reason wrote:
I'm with Shiori 100% on what he's been saying over the last few pages and I'm pleased he's taking the time to post here. My +1 will have to suffice for the moment.
I don't know why everyone is so upset about this hit tbh..... unless I'm mistaken the person was threatening to reveal the identities of people who were using an anonymous service online to obtain substances they desired that their government due to greed and ignorance has illegalised. These people could get in trouble, but they don't deserve to tbh... He can't go running to the police/government because they're the ones who caused this problem in the first place... I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers...
Now that he has been caught, I don't see any death threats being sent to "anyone in the FBI" or anything like that. He's not some crazy maniac who likes to kill people or doesn't understand that FBI/Police are mostly genuine nice people working an important job in the country. He knew the game and the risks, and now he's been busted, but he was willing to do some heavy shit to protect the customers of his site because he knew that's what is right.
small scale example... I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs. A policeman comes up and arrests me. I might say the law is unjust etc etc... but at the end of the day he's just doing his job and I would hold no grudge against the individual. Now imagine I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs and some guy approaches me and tells me that he is going to turn my latest customer into the police for buying drugs. I'd think that guy was a dick and likely give him a bop.
To expand further, once the threat was made he probably should have issued a public statement saying he would close the site to protect the people that used it. That doesn't really solve the problem though, other sites will be made and the cycle repeats. Either way, screaming "omg murderer" seems a little close-minded to me. Those bolded parts....they really lead me to believe you need to step back and seriously analyze your views on life. It's never OK to murder people just because they're threatening to reveal the identities of your illegal business's customers. What life experiences have you gone through to think that MURDERING people is an acceptable business strategy?
It's not a business strategy. It's about protecting the people who used the service you provided. A service which isn't legal but should be. People who aren't criminals but are portrayed and punished as such.
What if the website is an anonymous online community for homosexuals, it's illegal to be gay and gay people caught using the website will be called criminals and punished? You don't think the website owner would perhaps feel a slight obligation to protect the people using the website from their ignorant and overbearing government? Especially considering they've chosen to use their intelligence and business acumen to host such a controversial website in the first place, the chances are there's more to this person than dollar signs flashing in their eyes.
Saying I need to step back and analyse my views on life when I'm simply communicating what should be obvious to anyone capable of abstract thought really leads me to believe you need to take some of your own advice my friend!
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It should be obvious to murder people who report crimes to the police, because you don't agree with the laws? And you say I'm the one with the problem?
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On November 07 2013 06:54 Saryph wrote:
It should be obvious to murder people who report crimes to the police, because you don't agree with the laws? And you say I'm the one with the problem?
Sensationalism. Try harder or don't bother at all please.
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On November 07 2013 06:57 Reason wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:54 Saryph wrote:
It should be obvious to murder people who report crimes to the police, because you don't agree with the laws? And you say I'm the one with the problem? Sensationalism. Try harder or don't bother at all please.
How is it sensationalism? Did you even read what you typed? You suggested MURDERING someone for exactly that. You're so caught up in defending drug use and fighting the government that you don't realize exactly how horrible of a thing you're suggesting.
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On November 07 2013 07:00 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:57 Reason wrote:On November 07 2013 06:54 Saryph wrote:
It should be obvious to murder people who report crimes to the police, because you don't agree with the laws? And you say I'm the one with the problem? Sensationalism. Try harder or don't bother at all please. How is it sensationalism? Did you even read what you typed? You suggested MURDERING someone for exactly that. You're so caught up in defending drug use and fighting the government that you don't realize exactly how horrible of a thing you're suggesting.
To clarify for you, my position on this is not clear however I think that the position most people are taking, yourself included, is a little close-minded.
If you want to argue in in absolutes, we can do so. Since you refuse to address this situation directly or anything I've said about it specifically, I'll just construct my own situation.
The crime is eating a chocolate bar. The punishment is death. You are a chocolate bar dealer. Someone has a list of 100 people that bought chocolate bars from you and is threatening to expose them to the police. I'd say there's good argument for killing this person before they manage to successfully report these heinous crimes.
Is that the situation here? Not exactly. Are you willing to discuss this situation here and what I've said about it specifically without resorting to sensationalism? Probably not. I'll live in hope though.
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On November 07 2013 06:54 Saryph wrote:
It should be obvious to murder people who report crimes to the police, because you don't agree with the laws? And you say I'm the one with the problem?
First of all the stuff you are typing will result in a shouting match at best. Might wanna try playing the subject, not the person.
Second of all, do you have any idea how many lives could be seriously ruined (because of laws that have no moral or ethic grounds whatsoever) if the guy would in fact "turn in" the users of that site ? It isn't as simple as "he wanted someone dead, he's a monster". If it was, every single government would be guilty beyond recognition.
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On November 07 2013 06:17 Reason wrote:
I'm with Shiori 100% on what he's been saying over the last few pages and I'm pleased he's taking the time to post here. My +1 will have to suffice for the moment.
I don't know why everyone is so upset about this hit tbh..... unless I'm mistaken the person was threatening to reveal the identities of people who were using an anonymous service online to obtain substances they desired that their government due to greed and ignorance has illegalised. These people could get in trouble, but they don't deserve to tbh... He can't go running to the police/government because they're the ones who caused this problem in the first place... I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers...
Now that he has been caught, I don't see any death threats being sent to "anyone in the FBI" or anything like that. He's not some crazy maniac who likes to kill people or doesn't understand that FBI/Police are mostly genuine nice people working an important job in the country. He knew the game and the risks, and now he's been busted, but he was willing to do some heavy shit to protect the customers of his site because he knew that's what is right.
small scale example... I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs. A policeman comes up and arrests me. I might say the law is unjust etc etc... but at the end of the day he's just doing his job and I would hold no grudge against the individual. Now imagine I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs and some guy approaches me and tells me that he is going to turn my latest customer into the police for buying drugs. I'd think that guy was a dick and likely give him a bop.
To expand further, once the threat was made he probably should have issued a public statement saying he would close the site to protect the people that used it. That doesn't really solve the problem though, other sites will be made and the cycle repeats. Either way, screaming "omg murderer" seems a little close-minded to me.
So it's OK for you to break the law because, hey, drugz are kewl and morally there is nothing wrong with using them.
However, someone tries to stop you/people like you that order drugs over the internet from breaking the law... and you think that person should be killed?
It's about protecting the people who used the service you provided. A service which isn't legal but should be. People who aren't criminals but are portrayed and punished as such.
Oh God forbid somebody have different opinions from you and have the law to back them up.
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On November 07 2013 07:13 Chocolate wrote:
However, someone tries to stop you/people like you that order drugs over the internet from breaking the law... and you think that person should be killed?
You're using a lot of crayons there buddy. The guy wasn't "trying to stop you/people like you that order drugs over the internet from breaking the law". He was blackmailing the site for money. Not quite the same thing, is it now ?
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I would certainly agree that its the lesser of two evils, that a man be assassinated, than entirely innocent people with an illicit habit have their lives destroyed and their freedom curtailed, due to the delusional excess of state power. Though neither are desirable outcomes, and will end only when the drug war ends, and people accept they have no authority to control the lives of other people [in whatever manner, or for whatever purpose].
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Theres quite a few drug sites, and they existed before the fall of Silk Road, and now there getting a lot more traffic. Most of them are just frankly better designed than Silk Road, so in a sense, drug trade through the net has benefited through this mishap.
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On November 07 2013 07:13 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:17 Reason wrote:
I'm with Shiori 100% on what he's been saying over the last few pages and I'm pleased he's taking the time to post here. My +1 will have to suffice for the moment.
I don't know why everyone is so upset about this hit tbh..... unless I'm mistaken the person was threatening to reveal the identities of people who were using an anonymous service online to obtain substances they desired that their government due to greed and ignorance has illegalised. These people could get in trouble, but they don't deserve to tbh... He can't go running to the police/government because they're the ones who caused this problem in the first place... I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers...
Now that he has been caught, I don't see any death threats being sent to "anyone in the FBI" or anything like that. He's not some crazy maniac who likes to kill people or doesn't understand that FBI/Police are mostly genuine nice people working an important job in the country. He knew the game and the risks, and now he's been busted, but he was willing to do some heavy shit to protect the customers of his site because he knew that's what is right.
small scale example... I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs. A policeman comes up and arrests me. I might say the law is unjust etc etc... but at the end of the day he's just doing his job and I would hold no grudge against the individual. Now imagine I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs and some guy approaches me and tells me that he is going to turn my latest customer into the police for buying drugs. I'd think that guy was a dick and likely give him a bop.
To expand further, once the threat was made he probably should have issued a public statement saying he would close the site to protect the people that used it. That doesn't really solve the problem though, other sites will be made and the cycle repeats. Either way, screaming "omg murderer" seems a little close-minded to me. So it's OK for you to break the law because, hey, drugz are kewl and morally there is nothing wrong with using them. However, someone tries to stop you/people like you that order drugs over the internet from breaking the law... and you think that person should be killed? Show nested quote + It's about protecting the people who used the service you provided. A service which isn't legal but should be. People who aren't criminals but are portrayed and punished as such. Oh God forbid somebody have different opinions from you and have the law to back them up.
Hi Chocolate. I don't think people should follow the law blindly, though 99% of the law in most countries is sound. If you're talking about reporting people who commit morally corrupt crimes like rape to the authorities then obviously I'd have no problem. If you're talking about reporting some homosexual group/people in Russia to the authorities for essentially refusing to have their human rights violated then you're moving onto some difficult territory and I feel this website is similarly shaky ground.
Labelling people as criminals or law breakers when all they're trying to do is live their own lives in their own way without harming other people doesn't really help anyone and is the kind of thinking that causes these problems in the first place.
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I'd murder the fuck out of someone blackmailing me into prison or a bribe any day. And that's not even close to what this guy was trying to pull.
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On November 07 2013 06:50 Reason wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:38 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:
"I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers..."
Wait, what? You missed something? Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:43 Saryph wrote:On November 07 2013 06:17 Reason wrote:
I'm with Shiori 100% on what he's been saying over the last few pages and I'm pleased he's taking the time to post here. My +1 will have to suffice for the moment.
I don't know why everyone is so upset about this hit tbh..... unless I'm mistaken the person was threatening to reveal the identities of people who were using an anonymous service online to obtain substances they desired that their government due to greed and ignorance has illegalised. These people could get in trouble, but they don't deserve to tbh... He can't go running to the police/government because they're the ones who caused this problem in the first place... I'd say it's almost his moral obligation to order a hit on some asshole threatening to expose his customers...
Now that he has been caught, I don't see any death threats being sent to "anyone in the FBI" or anything like that. He's not some crazy maniac who likes to kill people or doesn't understand that FBI/Police are mostly genuine nice people working an important job in the country. He knew the game and the risks, and now he's been busted, but he was willing to do some heavy shit to protect the customers of his site because he knew that's what is right.
small scale example... I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs. A policeman comes up and arrests me. I might say the law is unjust etc etc... but at the end of the day he's just doing his job and I would hold no grudge against the individual. Now imagine I'm standing on the street corner selling drugs and some guy approaches me and tells me that he is going to turn my latest customer into the police for buying drugs. I'd think that guy was a dick and likely give him a bop.
To expand further, once the threat was made he probably should have issued a public statement saying he would close the site to protect the people that used it. That doesn't really solve the problem though, other sites will be made and the cycle repeats. Either way, screaming "omg murderer" seems a little close-minded to me. Those bolded parts....they really lead me to believe you need to step back and seriously analyze your views on life. It's never OK to murder people just because they're threatening to reveal the identities of your illegal business's customers. What life experiences have you gone through to think that MURDERING people is an acceptable business strategy? A service which isn't legal but should be.
Thread seriously... but my 2 cents anyway: the SR situation and DPR's case has so much more to do with drug laws and people's supposed freedom of choice/association than it does with the hit anyway. Yes DPR is an "idiot" if he actually took it that far but I feel like it's a terrible smoke screen over the real issues that *SHOULD* have been at hand and obviously the DEA is very happy about that. Hard to feel pity for a potential murder and I would guess by extension drugs or drug users.
Silkroad was a good service and it's a shame the system is set up to destroy anyone who dares to ignore it. Certainly was safer than the status quo.
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EPT
