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RKC
2810 Posts
Humans can't beat engines. But I'm hoping top players like Magnus push themselves as humanely possible to match engine play. Is that something better to root for? For humanity to improve? Different types of games attract different types of viewers. I'm sure chess-boxing attracts many viewers. Doesn't mean the world championship should introduce rules to generate more non-chess tension and hype just to draw many viewers. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8590 Posts
On April 20 2023 17:58 RKC wrote: I watch sports like football and games like chess because the top players play at a level that's way beyond my level. Why would I want to watch people playing at my level? Humans can't beat engines. But I'm hoping top players like Magnus push themselves as humanely possible to match engine play. Is that something better to root for? For humanity to improve? Different types of games attract different types of viewers. I'm sure chess-boxing attracts many viewers. Doesn't mean the world championship should introduce rules to generate more non-chess tension and hype just to draw many viewers. Ahh ok so by enjoying this game I'm getting in the way of the evolution of our species. Well shit. These guys are the best two players who could have qualified for this. People treating them as if they are two random chess streamers like the Botez sisters is insanely disrespectful. | ||
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RKC
2810 Posts
I'm just stating my own minority view why I don't enjoy the games so far (especially game 7). I'm just strongly defending my view, not trying to convince any of you to think like me and stop watching. Geez, relax, watch the stream. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria2091 Posts
On April 20 2023 17:58 RKC wrote: I watch sports like football and games like chess because the top players play at a level that's way beyond my level. Why would I want to watch people playing at my level? Humans can't beat engines. But I'm hoping top players like Magnus push themselves as humanely possible to match engine play. Is that something better to root for? For humanity to improve? Different types of games attract different types of viewers. I'm sure chess-boxing attracts many viewers. Doesn't mean the world championship should introduce rules to generate more non-chess tension and hype just to draw many viewers. I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you think this match is comparable to your level? Just because it contains blunders? Every player blunders, sometimes it happens more often, sometimes less often. We're seeing more blunders, that doesn't take away anything from the quality of the match. You can just as well interpret it as both players having found the perfect positions to test their (apparently equally skilled) opponent to the max. To think this is anything but exciting is to completely misunderstand the evolution of chess, which is always away from book moves for the purpose of winning more games. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8590 Posts
On April 20 2023 18:10 RKC wrote: Please enjoy the games. I'm sure most viewers, whether casual or chess experts, are. I'm just stating my own minority view why I don't enjoy the games so far (especially game 7). I'm just strongly defending my view, not trying to convince any of you to think like me and stop watching. Geez, relax, watch the stream. I'm relaxed, I just find the improvement of humanity argument a bit silly personally. Do you watch alot of 1 vs 1 sports? I only ask because no matter what you're watching, whether its tennis, snooker, or anything that pits people 1 vs 1 in a game where psychology is important and you'll see people making mistakes in massive games. Its an integral part of these types of games. Look up Carlsen 51: Qe6 Kasparov, Karpov, Fischer etc. These players have all made MASSIVE blunders in World Championship finals. This game is huge for these guys because realistically its the best chance anyone's had for a very long time to win this. Its no wonder there's been a few blunders. | ||
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RKC
2810 Posts
It's true that in 1v1 sports, the player with the psychological edge usually wins. But when both players show glaring psychological weaknesses that can be easily exploited, the match doesn't seem played at a top level. Ding freezing in Game 7 was like Magnus mouse-slipping in Armageddon and losing to Hikaru in the recent Chessable Masters. Sure, both unfortunate incidents happen because of psychological time pressure and generates a lot of buzz. But that doesn't mean we should enjoy and wish for more of such moments to decide games. I want to see less blunders in top level games whether classical or rapid. But maybe that's just me... | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria2091 Posts
Even Fischer has failed much simpler tests (sometimes only his own fantastical imagination) than the ones Liren has faced during this match, and Fischer was a much superior player to both Liren and Nepo. Chess is about being tested. The only thing I see is that we've found the perfect match between two players that are both capable of testing each other's limits. | ||
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RKC
2810 Posts
Magnus and Fabi fended off each other's tests for 12 games all ending in draws. Same for Magnus and Nepo until the fateful Game 6 - an incredible test of resilience posed by Magnus, which Nepo failed and tilted permanently. Yes, both Nepo and Ding are equally matched in failing each other's test. But that doesn't automatically mean that they're both playing at the highest level or even their highest potential. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria2091 Posts
I think you're not giving them a fair assessment. If the test gets harder, people will also fail it more often. | ||
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RKC
2810 Posts
Let's put aside arguments on the quality of the games so far. Here's an interesting question - which matchup would you prefer to watch for the championship? For me, I would go for Nepo v Fabi or Nepo v Alireza (yeah, Alireza is probably as mentally unprepared as Ding but his brilliance would provide more wild 'test' for Nepo). | ||
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RKC
2810 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria2091 Posts
To your question, Rapport would be a personal favorite of mine, but there's a high chance that he's reached his peak. Instead I'd go with your pick of Firouzja, probably against Nepo because I think they're both still improving. Firouzja has almost endless potential and he plays the Caro which is slightly unusual at the top level. No offense to Caruana, one of the greatest players of all time. Until a few years ago I would've put him up against anyone including Carlsen. But lately I think his game is suffering. I'm reminded of his rook blunder against Anish Giri. I really hope it's not a sign of bad health or personal problems. Rapport being chosen as a second for Liren seems like a mix of friendship plus professional insight. There's no doubt he gives great psychological support. There are a bunch of clips of them on YT showing their close friendship during this match. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria2091 Posts
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RKC
2810 Posts
Fabi is an enigma. He seems be on a downswing. But I enjoy his podcast and insights. | ||
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0x64
Finland4319 Posts
On April 20 2023 21:26 RKC wrote: I'm a fan of Rapport for his creativity as well. And his creativity is definitely benefitting Ding's prep. And their friendship is so endearing! Fabi is an enigma. He seems be on a downswing. But I enjoy his podcast and insights. So Ding and Rapport managed to get discovered with their preparation games. I hope Nepo will make a statement that he won't look at those games. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands20419 Posts
On April 21 2023 04:21 0x64 wrote: Doesn't matter if he does or not, Ding can't take the risk.So Ding and Rapport managed to get discovered with their preparation games. I hope Nepo will make a statement that he won't look at those games. | ||
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sertas
Sweden753 Posts
What are you even talking about RKC, this is way higher quality chess then magnus vs naka rapid lol. RKC probably forgot that or didn't notice that those mass draw games matches carlsen had, could've been a lot more decisive if both sides didn't blunder away their winning positions. (It wasn't low quality either by the way, same way that this match is not low quality by any means) | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland3522 Posts
Unreal.. | ||
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sharkie
Austria17718 Posts
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0x64
Finland4319 Posts
On April 22 2023 14:56 M3t4PhYzX wrote: This prep leak drama is one of the silliest things i've ever heard.. seriously, wtf were they thinking?! Unreal.. mhmm in hindsight, sure Information security is not their speciality, thinking it's all anonymous. It's the kind of mistake that happens only once and you look like a fool. | ||
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