EPTFemale Genital Mutilation - Page 2
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canucks12
Canada812 Posts
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Shival
Netherlands643 Posts
On July 27 2013 14:42 Millitron wrote: Hold on, the chart in the OP says many women in these countries are cool with it? Why should UNICEF, or anyone really, go in and say they should stop, if many of these places disagree? Those statistics are pretty much useless. Most often the women in those countries do not voice their own opinion but rather that of what they're 'supposed' to say. If given proper education about the practice and free choice I'm certain the percentages would drop to near zero. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On July 27 2013 13:58 Djzapz wrote: I think human rights are everybody's business. It's easy to lump everything people do under the "culture" title and pretend that all cultures are equal, but when a given culture butchers its children without giving them a choice, it's cause for concern. It's a particular problem when it's done at home with razorblades and stuff. No "culture" excuse will make up for the life of children who die or end up with life-long complications due to basement surgery. IMO it's peculiar that certain despicable acts get lumped under culture and that somehow makes it acceptable... Some people like to pretend to themselves that all cultures are equal, and I can't really argue against that but I can certainly argue against specific practices. In some places, women get prosecuted, sometimes with lashes, for having been raped. You can't just say "well that's how they run things". It is, yeah, it's the particular culture of some villages in some countries or whatever, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. Edit: going to bed, so if someone responds to this, maybe I'll read it tomorrow. Cheers and stay classy. You may think their practices are barbaric. But they think the same way about western culture. IMO, people of their country should have the freedom to run their country as they wish. That means if Egyptians elect a Islamist government, then they should be allowed to conduct their Islamist practices. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On July 27 2013 15:25 T.O.P. wrote: You may think their practices are barbaric. But they think the same way about western culture. IMO, people of their country should have the freedom to run their country as they wish. That means if Egyptians elect a Islamist government, then they should be allowed to conduct their Islamist practices. Why do you think a mob of people can conduct mutilation on women who don't want it? | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
On July 27 2013 14:42 Millitron wrote: Hold on, the chart in the OP says many women in these countries are cool with it? Why should UNICEF, or anyone really, go in and say they should stop, if many of these places disagree? Because people die and suffer from it. And I would not reallty trust these numbers, We can't know if the women were interviewed separately... | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On July 27 2013 15:32 Roe wrote: Why do you think a mob of people can conduct mutilation on women who don't want it? A mob? You mean their parents? | ||
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DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
On July 27 2013 15:13 Shival wrote: Those statistics are pretty much useless. Most often the women in those countries do not voice their own opinion but rather that of what they're 'supposed' to say. If given proper education about the practice and free choice I'm certain the percentages would drop to near zero. So, if you educate them that something is wrong(read: give them PROPER education) they will vote for whatever you want them to. | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
On July 27 2013 15:45 DidYuhim wrote: So, if you educate them that something is wrong(read: give them PROPER education) they will vote for whatever you want them to. but that's exactly what is being done to them now. The difference lies in less pain, infections and deaths. | ||
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Shival
Netherlands643 Posts
On July 27 2013 15:45 DidYuhim wrote: So, if you educate them that something is wrong(read: give them PROPER education) they will vote for whatever you want them to. It's not about telling them it's wrong, it's about giving them facts. They can make up their own minds on whether it is wrong. Proper education is not about pushing western morals. Maybe you should read the report. Alot of parents feel forced to do so by social pressure, say, a mob. | ||
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Shival
Netherlands643 Posts
On July 27 2013 15:25 T.O.P. wrote: You may think their practices are barbaric. But they think the same way about western culture. IMO, people of their country should have the freedom to run their country as they wish. That means if Egyptians elect a Islamist government, then they should be allowed to conduct their Islamist practices. Indeed, I vote we enslave a certain group again in western civilization. Just because we can and we should be the only ones to decide whether we can! Seriously though, I never can grasp this position of; "a country's citizens have the freedom to entertain absolutely inhumane practices." Why is respecting a culture more important than the well-being of humans in general? | ||
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FoxShine
United States156 Posts
On July 27 2013 13:23 Falling wrote: What do you mean, now? The wording of that seems to suggest female genital mutilation has stopped. Can we at least stay on the same topic for more than two posts rather than derailing it with men's issues? We already have a circumcision thread. We don't need two. With respect to current topic; If we could just go ahead and stop all genital "mutilation", that would be great. I guess there were "hygienic" reasons for male circumcision, I really don't understand it's female at all. Only a few years ago had I even heard this was still done. Barbaric. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
and this is the first time that i dont dare to google that term, i was curious how would it looks like but nope. edit: omg this is my 6k post T_T i am an OVERLORD now!! | ||
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Artax
121 Posts
On July 27 2013 16:05 Shival wrote: Proper education is not about pushing western morals. I'm guessing most of the middle east would disagree with you there... Education is never objective. The fact that you label it "proper" already implies a western bias. | ||
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Shival
Netherlands643 Posts
On July 27 2013 16:48 Artax wrote: I'm guessing most of the middle east would disagree with you there... Education is never objective. The fact that you label it "proper" already implies a western bias. It doesn't imply anything at all other than that the education is based on facts. If you think education based on facts is western bias, then be my guest. Just know that you're utterly ridiculous. Same goes for 'most of the middle east', if they believe education based on facts is pushing western morals, they are also being utterly ridiculous. | ||
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No_Roo
United States905 Posts
On July 27 2013 14:42 Millitron wrote: Hold on, the chart in the OP says many women in these countries are cool with it? Why should UNICEF, or anyone really, go in and say they should stop, if many of these places disagree? Because the practice of any form of genital mutilation should stand or fall on it's merit, not it's popularity. We have thoroughly studied and debunked the so called 'benefits' genital mutilation proponents advocate with. Additionally we have demonstrated significant harm from these practices. That's why. | ||
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Mothra
United States1448 Posts
On July 27 2013 16:55 No_Roo wrote: Because the practice of any form of genital mutilation should stand or fall on it's merit, not it's popularity. We have thoroughly studied and debunked the so called 'benefits' genital mutilation proponents advocate with. Additionally we have demonstrated significant harm from these practices. That's why. That's a hard stance to defend. When the perceived benefits are marriageability, social acceptance, and aesthetic preference... how do you "debunk" those things? Type 4 FGM, which includes "Pricking or nicking involves cutting to draw blood, but no removal of tissue and no permanent alteration of the external genitalia." would be hard to classify as "significantly harmful". So do we censure some forms of FGM and not others? If it becomes a risk vs benefit thing, it is very hard to draw the line past where the practice becomes unacceptable. If you read the links I posted, the victims of FGM often do not see themselves as harmed, and they are the ones who circumcise their daughters. It's a shame that genital cutting is separated by gender, because it's the exact same arguments again and again. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On July 27 2013 13:53 JP Dayne wrote: While I don't agree with either female or male genital mutilation, I don't think anyone is in the place to use their own morals to judge or, even worse, intervene with those african cultures/practices/whatever. the "american freedom missile is coming for your rescue!" needs to take a break I think we should use our own morals to judge. Cannibalism used to be common in some countries too you know. I do respect other cultures, but as soon as individuals are physically harmed due to cultural pressure the respect ends. | ||
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Shival
Netherlands643 Posts
On July 27 2013 17:08 Mothra wrote: That's a hard stance to defend. When the perceived benefits are marriageability, social acceptance, and aesthetic preference... how do you "debunk" those things? Type 4 FGM, which includes "Pricking or nicking involves cutting to draw blood, but no removal of tissue and no permanent alteration of the external genitalia." would be hard to classify as "significantly harmful". So do we censure some forms of FGM and not others? If it becomes a risk vs benefit thing, it is very hard to draw the line past where the practice becomes unacceptable. If you read the links I posted, the victims of FGM often do not see themselves as harmed, and they are the ones who circumcise their daughters. Infections don't count as significantly harmful? Most of these FGMs are not done in sterile environments, nor with sterile equipment. Anyway, type 4 includes alot more than what you said: "Includes pricking, piercing or incision of the clitoris and/or the labia; stretching of the clitoris and or the labia; cauterisation or burning of the clitoris and surrounding tissues, scraping of the vaginal orifice or cutting (Gishiri cuts) of the vagina and introduction of corrosive substances or herbs into the vagina." If you believe that doesn't result in permanent alteration, you believe in wonders. | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
"If we dont do it, the woman will be impossibly horny" That says a lot about how deep this practice has taken its roots It may disapear but it will take a lot of time sadly | ||
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MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
As much as it may suck, I think those cultures have to change their practices through themselves wanting to do it. External cultural pressure from the West is ok, but it should really stay at that. Forcing shit on others will only make it worse in the long run. | ||
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