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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 10029

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 07 2018 02:29 GMT
#200561
On March 07 2018 11:20 ticklishmusic wrote:
The settlement agreement thing is dumb, tbh. It looks like a case of her signing then Trump & Cohen neglecting to countersign or return a countersigned document to her. She also took the settlement money, so it's kind of ridiculous to argue that the contract wasn't valid or in force.


Yeah, she's toast in the lawsuit. There's a good chance that the case gets dismissed outright just on the pleadings depending upon how she framed the dispute.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 02:32:03
March 07 2018 02:30 GMT
#200562
On March 07 2018 11:26 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't like to channel Danglars, but you could look at the actual substance of the legislation vs. saying it's bad cuz Republicans.


Just start with the premise that Republicans had an idea to deregulate banks and you think it might not be a bad idea.

legislation sponsored by Senate Banking Committee Chair Mike Crapo (R-ID)


Really let that one stir around for a while.

Then ask why in the world this was passed with 0 public pressure for it. No real fight between two groups that are supposed to be at each others throats, and it just so happens to help their corporate donors.

If all of that doesn't make you hesitate (how the fuck not!?), ask yourself what Democrats got out of it, and why Republicans gave it up.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 07 2018 02:31 GMT
#200563
On March 07 2018 11:30 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 11:26 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't like to channel Danglars, but you could look at the actual substance of the legislation vs. saying it's bad cuz Republicans.


Just start with the premise that Republicans had an idea to deregulate banks and you think it might not be a bad idea.

Really let that one stir around for a while.

Then ask why in the world this was passed with 0 public pressure for it. No real fight between two groups that are supposed to be at each others throats, and it just so happens to help their corporate donors.

If all of that doesn't make you hesitate (how the fuck not!?), ask yourself what Democrats got out of it, and why Republicans gave it up.

Maybe you should just read first, like the rest of us did.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 02:36:16
March 07 2018 02:34 GMT
#200564
On March 07 2018 11:31 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 11:30 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:26 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't like to channel Danglars, but you could look at the actual substance of the legislation vs. saying it's bad cuz Republicans.


Just start with the premise that Republicans had an idea to deregulate banks and you think it might not be a bad idea.

Really let that one stir around for a while.

Then ask why in the world this was passed with 0 public pressure for it. No real fight between two groups that are supposed to be at each others throats, and it just so happens to help their corporate donors.

If all of that doesn't make you hesitate (how the fuck not!?), ask yourself what Democrats got out of it, and why Republicans gave it up.

Maybe you should just read first, like the rest of us did.


You guys can't talk about how stupid Republicans are all day every day and then just be like "no, no, no, I completely think they are capable of putting together deregulation legislation" just because centrist dems support it. You telling me you would be upset with Democrats for stopping this?

I did. It was basically a giveaway for nothing. That is being rationalized all over the centrist sphere.

The provision of the bill that has garnered the most attention is one that would raise the threshold at which banks are subject to certain federal oversight, including stress tests that measure a bank’s ability to withstand an economic downturn. Under current law, banks with assets of $50 billion or more are considered systematically important financial institutions (often referred to as SIFIs) and are therefore subject to stricter oversight from the Federal Reserve.

The Senate bill would increase the SIFI threshold to $250 billion. Banks with assets of less than $100 billion would be freed of current oversight requirements, and those between $100 billion and $250 billion would no longer be subject to tougher rules after 18 months,


That's just dumb.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 07 2018 02:37 GMT
#200565
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2018 02:42 GMT
#200566
Strength in numbers.

West Virginia lawmakers unanimously approved 5% pay raises for teachers and troopers on Tuesday, after the state’s governor reached a deal to end a teacher walkout that shut the state’s schools for nine days.

A huge group of teachers crowding the capitol’s hallways cheered their victory.

With striking teachers looking on, the house of delegates passed the pay raise for teachers, school service personnel and state troopers on a 99-0 vote, and the senate followed, voting 34-0.

“I believe in you and I love our kids,” the governor, Jim Justice, said.

The governor, union leaders and the house had agreed to the raise for those groups last week. State teachers are among the lowest paid in the country and haven’t had a salary increase in four years.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 02:47:37
March 07 2018 02:42 GMT
#200567
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Wanting it (no evidence of people wanting this, certainly not less than universal background checks) doesn't make it not stupid.

It's still stupid.

On March 07 2018 11:42 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Strength in numbers.

Show nested quote +
West Virginia lawmakers unanimously approved 5% pay raises for teachers and troopers on Tuesday, after the state’s governor reached a deal to end a teacher walkout that shut the state’s schools for nine days.

A huge group of teachers crowding the capitol’s hallways cheered their victory.

With striking teachers looking on, the house of delegates passed the pay raise for teachers, school service personnel and state troopers on a 99-0 vote, and the senate followed, voting 34-0.

“I believe in you and I love our kids,” the governor, Jim Justice, said.

The governor, union leaders and the house had agreed to the raise for those groups last week. State teachers are among the lowest paid in the country and haven’t had a salary increase in four years.


Source


Workers have the power if they take it.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12172 Posts
March 07 2018 02:47 GMT
#200568
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.
No will to live, no wish to die
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 07 2018 02:51 GMT
#200569
On March 07 2018 11:47 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.

The smaller banks have been asking for this for like 8 years now. They don’t feel they should be lumped in with dumpster fires like Wells Fargo and BOA. If this undercuts the efforts to totally repeal Dodd Frank, I’ll eat it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
March 07 2018 02:54 GMT
#200570
On March 07 2018 11:51 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 11:47 Nebuchad wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.

The smaller banks have been asking for this for like 8 years now. They don’t feel they should be lumped in with dumpster fires like Wells Fargo and BOA. If this undercuts the efforts to totally repeal Dodd Frank, I’ll eat it.


So Democrats voted for this, because the alternative would have passed without their support? So you think Republicans purposely undercut themselves to give Democrats a win. That's really what you think happened?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 07 2018 02:58 GMT
#200571
On March 07 2018 11:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 11:51 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:47 Nebuchad wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.

The smaller banks have been asking for this for like 8 years now. They don’t feel they should be lumped in with dumpster fires like Wells Fargo and BOA. If this undercuts the efforts to totally repeal Dodd Frank, I’ll eat it.


So Democrats voted for this, because the alternative would have passed without their support? So you think Republicans purposely undercut themselves to give Democrats a win. That's really what you think happened?

No, it just doesn’t pass. They need 60 votes in the senate.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 03:07:51
March 07 2018 03:05 GMT
#200572
On March 07 2018 11:58 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 11:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:51 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:47 Nebuchad wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.

The smaller banks have been asking for this for like 8 years now. They don’t feel they should be lumped in with dumpster fires like Wells Fargo and BOA. If this undercuts the efforts to totally repeal Dodd Frank, I’ll eat it.


So Democrats voted for this, because the alternative would have passed without their support? So you think Republicans purposely undercut themselves to give Democrats a win. That's really what you think happened?

No, it just doesn’t pass. They need 60 votes in the senate.


Okay, so don't pass a giveaway Republican orchestrated bank deregulation bill.

Seems pretty simple. I don't remember seeing people taking to the streets over wanting less 'small' bank regulations, but maybe I missed it?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 07 2018 03:09 GMT
#200573
On March 07 2018 12:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 11:58 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:51 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:47 Nebuchad wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.

The smaller banks have been asking for this for like 8 years now. They don’t feel they should be lumped in with dumpster fires like Wells Fargo and BOA. If this undercuts the efforts to totally repeal Dodd Frank, I’ll eat it.


So Democrats voted for this, because the alternative would have passed without their support? So you think Republicans purposely undercut themselves to give Democrats a win. That's really what you think happened?

No, it just doesn’t pass. They need 60 votes in the senate.


Okay, so don't pass a giveaway Republican orchestrated bank deregulation.

Seems pretty simple. I don't remember seeing people taking to the streets over wanting less 'small' bank regulations, but maybe I missed it?

It’s a small number of moderate democrats and this has been a thing for them for like 8 years. You can try to primary them if you think it’s that huge of a deal.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 03:22:56
March 07 2018 03:15 GMT
#200574
On March 07 2018 12:09 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 12:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:58 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:51 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:47 Nebuchad wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.

The smaller banks have been asking for this for like 8 years now. They don’t feel they should be lumped in with dumpster fires like Wells Fargo and BOA. If this undercuts the efforts to totally repeal Dodd Frank, I’ll eat it.


So Democrats voted for this, because the alternative would have passed without their support? So you think Republicans purposely undercut themselves to give Democrats a win. That's really what you think happened?

No, it just doesn’t pass. They need 60 votes in the senate.


Okay, so don't pass a giveaway Republican orchestrated bank deregulation.

Seems pretty simple. I don't remember seeing people taking to the streets over wanting less 'small' bank regulations, but maybe I missed it?

It’s a small number of moderate democrats and this has been a thing for them for like 8 years. You can try to primary them if you think it’s that huge of a deal.


It's not that small of a group, they needed 9-10 just to break the filibuster. They ended up with 16-17. or ~1/3 of Democrats.

Congress is about to give the banks and their lobbyists their fondest wish and you think it was a good deal...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 07 2018 03:27 GMT
#200575
On March 07 2018 12:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 12:09 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 12:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:58 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:51 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:47 Nebuchad wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.

The smaller banks have been asking for this for like 8 years now. They don’t feel they should be lumped in with dumpster fires like Wells Fargo and BOA. If this undercuts the efforts to totally repeal Dodd Frank, I’ll eat it.


So Democrats voted for this, because the alternative would have passed without their support? So you think Republicans purposely undercut themselves to give Democrats a win. That's really what you think happened?

No, it just doesn’t pass. They need 60 votes in the senate.


Okay, so don't pass a giveaway Republican orchestrated bank deregulation.

Seems pretty simple. I don't remember seeing people taking to the streets over wanting less 'small' bank regulations, but maybe I missed it?

It’s a small number of moderate democrats and this has been a thing for them for like 8 years. You can try to primary them if you think it’s that huge of a deal.


It's not that small of a group, they needed 9-10 just to break the filibuster. They ended up with 16-17. or ~1/3 of Democrats.

Congress is about to give the banks and their lobbyists their fondest wish and you think it was a good deal...

It is a bill I’ve been aware of for like 5 years. It’s been kicking around for a while has always has support from parts of both parties. I’m just not that bent out of shape about it. Those banks were never the problem in the finance industry.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 03:45:25
March 07 2018 03:35 GMT
#200576
On March 07 2018 12:27 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 12:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 12:09 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 12:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:58 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:51 Plansix wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:47 Nebuchad wrote:
On March 07 2018 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Unless their local state banks and voters want the deregulation on their local banks. These senators represent their states, not the party.


Isn't that the one where Heitkamp has 1M invested in two of the main beneficiaries of the bill?

But yeah, probably following the will of her people. North Dakotans are really into bank deregulation, that's what I hear anyway.

The smaller banks have been asking for this for like 8 years now. They don’t feel they should be lumped in with dumpster fires like Wells Fargo and BOA. If this undercuts the efforts to totally repeal Dodd Frank, I’ll eat it.


So Democrats voted for this, because the alternative would have passed without their support? So you think Republicans purposely undercut themselves to give Democrats a win. That's really what you think happened?

No, it just doesn’t pass. They need 60 votes in the senate.


Okay, so don't pass a giveaway Republican orchestrated bank deregulation.

Seems pretty simple. I don't remember seeing people taking to the streets over wanting less 'small' bank regulations, but maybe I missed it?

It’s a small number of moderate democrats and this has been a thing for them for like 8 years. You can try to primary them if you think it’s that huge of a deal.


It's not that small of a group, they needed 9-10 just to break the filibuster. They ended up with 16-17. or ~1/3 of Democrats.

Congress is about to give the banks and their lobbyists their fondest wish and you think it was a good deal...

It is a bill I’ve been aware of for like 5 years. It’s been kicking around for a while has always has support from parts of both parties. I’m just not that bent out of shape about it. Those banks were never the problem in the finance industry.


Well I feel like that sounds a lot different than where we started, and you bounced around a lot. But it seems you've landed to the right of Elizabeth Warren on this, which doesn't bode well for centrists in the mid-term or beyond.

This is pretty much exactly what I was talking about with why Democrats lost 1000+ seats nationwide in the first place, and why they aren't going to get them back with policy like this. This was an easy fight for Democrats and they couldn't get it done and you've already given them a pass for it.

That is so remarkably uninspiring there should be a trophy.

Another change is even more puzzling. Dodd-Frank says the Federal Reserve “may” tailor regulation for the biggest banks, if it sees the need to do so. The Senate legislation surgically changes that word to “shall.” What that means is that rather than being able to regulate all big banks the same way, the Federal Reserve will now need to create specific regulations for each major bank it regulates.

This change does two things: First, it gives bank regulators — who may be hoping to someday cash in at the firms they now oversee — more power to decide the fate of the banks under their purview. Second, it gives the banks’ teams of high-priced lawyers more power to tie up the Federal Reserve in court by arguing that the regulations are not sufficiently tailored to their situation.

As Gary Gensler, the former head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, dryly noted in a letter to the Senate banking committee, “laws and regulations generally are better when they are applied consistently.”

There’s also a strange loophole in the bill that would make it easier for foreign megabanks like Credit Suisse and Deutsche Bank to escape regulation by sheltering their US holdings in vehicles that keep them under the $250 billion mark. This seems like an obvious mistake, but when Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown offered an amendment to close the loophole, it lost on a party-line vote.

Then there’s the provision raising the limit, from 50 to 500, on the number of mortgages a bank can offer before reporting on who got the loans and at which terms — a change that will make it harder to track racial bias in lending.

And all this is being done to solve ... what problem, exactly? As Gensler notes in his letter:

Corporate and industrial loans, as well as overall loans in the banking sector, have grown significantly since precrisis levels, 35% and 31% respectively. The financial system is back to pre-crisis levels of activity, representing over 7% of gross domestic product, consistent with some other developed nations. Bank profits were at record levels in 2016 and, in the third quarter of 2017, banking industry’s average return on assets was at a 10-year high. ... The new [tax reform] law represents a 35% tax cut for the industry, or a total of $249 billion over the next 10 years.

Is the banking industry really in such dire need of relief?


Source

Brunch will be back soon enough centrists, don't worry.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 03:50:20
March 07 2018 03:47 GMT
#200577
My senators didn’t vote for it and I can’t be asked to care about what other states senators do on bills I’m not worried about. If there turns out to be some top secret garbage in that bill, I’ll change my tune. But if this is the worst of the compromises in 2018, Im ok with it.

Edit: I like how my boy Frank is in their saying he understands why senators are supporting it and it doesn’t do that much damage. Glad he and I are still on the same page.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 03:57:35
March 07 2018 03:52 GMT
#200578
On March 07 2018 12:47 Plansix wrote:
My senators didn’t vote for it and I can’t be asked to care about what other states senators do on bills I’m not worried about. If there turns out to be some top secret garbage in that bill, I’ll change my tune. But if this is the worst of the compromises in 2018, Im ok with it.


One of them in particular sees those problems as more significant than you do. Someone I've come to believe you think knows this stuff pretty well. Seems like the garbage already cited is pretty bad.

You seem to care quite a bit about what Senators in other states do when there's an (R) next to their name, so I don't buy that excuse in the slightest. If you fight for issues and not party it doesn't matter which letter is next to their name, you oppose bad ideas.

Edit: I like how my boy Frank is in their saying he understands why senators are supporting it and it doesn’t do that much damage. Glad he and I are still on the same page.



Hey, what's ya boy Frank doing for work now?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 03:57:58
March 07 2018 03:57 GMT
#200579
No one I voted for or will vote for supports this bill.

Edit: Barnie Frank retired.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 04:00:39
March 07 2018 03:59 GMT
#200580
On March 07 2018 12:57 Plansix wrote:
No one I voted for or will vote for supports this bill.


So? Why do you keep focusing on that, like you don't spend plenty of time berating senators you didn't vote for?

Edit: Barnie Frank retired


Really?

http://investor.signatureny.com/directors/barney-frank
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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