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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On July 06 2013 10:42 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 10:33 Fruscainte wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:On July 06 2013 06:55 Shady Sands wrote:On July 06 2013 06:39 PanN wrote:On July 06 2013 06:37 AimForTheBushes wrote:Reporting like this (from abcnews) is simply disgusting, and the bias in it infuriates me to no end. Dr. Bao, one of the worst expert witnesses I've ever seen, says "he could have been alive between 1 to 10 minutes after being shot".. and these cunts spin it into "Trayvon suffered in pain for 10 long minutes" before dying... ugh.. On July 06 2013 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman Judge Rejects Motion to Dismiss the Case The prosecution rested their second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman today and his legal team immediately asked the judge throw out all charges, arguing that the state had failed to present evidence he murdered Trayvon Martin.
The judge swiftly rejected the argument, but not before both sides made emotional legal arguments that are usually reserved for summations at the end of a trial.
In an impassioned plea, Zimmerman's defense attorney Mark O'Mara stated that the state did not produce direct or circumstantial evidence that Zimmerman acted with "ill-will or spite," the Florida requirements for second degree murder.
"There is not a scintilla of evidence to support that," O'Mara said referring to the implication that Zimmerman acted out of "ill will and spite."
"He has the undeniable injuries that reference nothing other than an attack by Trayvon Martin," O'Mara said.
"You cannot look at that picture of my client's nose and say he wasn't beaten in the face," he said. O'Mara said the court would draw a similar conclusion by looking at the photos showing the back of Zimmerman's bloody head.
Zimmerman "did not land one blow… all he did was scream for help," O'Mara said.
Prosecutor Rich Mantei told the judge that Zimmerman "had enough in his heart to stop his trip to the grocery store…to get out of his car in the rain, follow him, and then as the witnesses make clear pursue him and grab him."
"There are two people involved here. One of them is dead and one of them is a liar," the prosecutor said.
Mantei hammered at what he said are inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story, saying he "flat out lied" about being unaware of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. Mantei asked how could a jury be expected "to take his word about anything."
The request to end the controversial trial followed the testimony of the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy on Trayvon Martin's body and the teens mother and brother who said they could hear him screaming for help on 911 calls made before he died.
Dr. Shiping Bao testified after Martin's mother and brother took the stand as the prosecution nears completion of its case against Zimmerman.
Bao told the court that Martin, 17, was shot in the heart and said, "There was no chance he could survive."
The medical examiner said that Martin would have lived anywhere from one minute to 10 minutes after being shot as his beating heart ran out of blood to pump.
Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's DNA Not on Zimmerman's Gun Watch Video
George Zimmerman's Understanding of 'Stand Your Ground' Law Watch Video
"His brain is still alive?" prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda asked.
"Yes," Bao replied.
"He can still feel pain in other words?" the prosecutor asked.
"Yes," he replied.
Catch up on all the details from the George Zimmerman murder trial.
De la Rioda asked whether Martin would have been able to move after he was wounded.
"From my experience and another autopsy we did three weeks ago, I don't believe he could move," Bao said.
Bao's claim that Martin would have been unable to move could cast doubt on Zimmerman's version of what happened during their violent confrontation on Feb. 26, 2012.
Zimmerman, who is being tried on charges of second degree murder, has maintained that he shot Martin after he was knocked down and beaten by Martin and the teenager went for Zimmerman's gun. After the shot was fired, Martin sat up and said, "You got me," Zimmerman told police and media.
Bao's claim that the wound would have immediately incapacitated Martin is the latest example of what the prosecution says are discrepancies in Zimmerman's version of what happened that night
But Zimmerman's lawyer, Don West, got Bao to say during cross examination that it may have been possible for Martin to move a little after he was shot. "But only one person in this world knows," Bao added.
Bao's credibility took a hit when he admitted that he had changed his opinion on several elements. He originally estimated that Martin may have lived for as long as three minutes, but that was lengthened to as long as 10 minutes. He also said he changed his opinion about the effect of THC from marijuana in Martin's body.
Bao's testimony followed the mother and brother of Martin who both took the stand and told jurors that they could hear him scream for help on 911 calls made just before he died.
"That scream, do you recognize that?" de la Rionda asked Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton.
"Yes, it's Trayvon Benjamin Martin," she answered.
Prosecutors hoped that the testimony of Martin's mother and brother may have an emotional and convincing impact on the jury and that the jurors would tie their words to the opinion of FBI audio expert Hirotaka Nakasone who testified earlier in the trial that it was not possible to definitively identify the voice using available acceptable technology.
Nakasone said the best person to identify the voice would be someone who is intimately familiar with the voice.
During cross examination defense attorney Mark O'Mara asked Fulton if she hoped it would be her son, because if it wasn't her that could mean he was responsible for his death, O'Mara said.
The George Zimmerman Case in Pictures
"I heard my son screaming," Fulton replied. "I didn't hope for anything. I simply listened to the tape."
It's not clear what impact it could have the jury, which consists of six women.
A major point of contention in the trial is who was heard screaming for help in the background of 911 tapes the night Martin was killed. Fulton claims it was her son, while Zimmerman's father insists that it is his son's voice that is heard.
Moments before she began her testimony, Fulton tweeted, "I pray that God gives me strength to properly represent my Angel Trayvon. He may not be perfect but he's mine. I plead the blood of Jesus for healing."
Trayvon Martin's brother, Jahvaris Fulton, also told the jury that the voice on the tape was that of his brother.
But under cross examination O'Mara played a tape of an interview with Jahvaris Fulton in which Fulton is heard saying "I'm not sure" when asked if that was his brother screaming. The jury was out of the courtroom at the time the tape was played. It's not clear whether they will be allowed to hear it at some point.
O'Mara had asked Jahvaris Fulton whether or not he had ever doubted that the screams were from his brother.
Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's DNA Not on Zimmerman's Gun Watch Video
George Zimmerman's Understanding of 'Stand Your Ground' Law Watch Video
"When we heard it in the mayor's office I didn't want to believe it was him. It was clouded by shock and denial and sadness. I didn't want to believe it was him," the brother said.
Before the day's testimony was over, O'Mara put Zimmerman's mother, Gladys Zimmerman on the stand, replied the 911 tapes and sked her if she recognized the voice that was screaming.
"My son, George," she replied. When asked how she could be sure, she answered, "Because he is my son." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/trayvon-martin-lived-long-10-painful-minutes-shot/story?id=19582338#.Udc6lfmcfmc It's beyond disgusting honestly, and nothing will ever come of it. https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=trayvon riot The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. I live 15 minutes from where the rioting is sure to be. I wish these looters the best of luck when they come through my door. With that said, this trial is over. This was when the prosecution was supposed to make a compelling case, not shoot themselves in the foot with a howitzer and have chairman bao's insane spelling bee as their grand finale. The defense is winning and they haven't even had their turn yet. If the Prosecution went with manslaughter this might be an easier trial but I honestly think it's over at this point. EDIT: To that guy on the last page saying Florida is all old white people, you're thinking of Ft Lauderdale and Miami. Orlando is half college town half theme park town. There's very few old people here and Sanford is definitely not a retirement community. Depends on where in Sanford. If you're past that railroad track then you're pretty fucked. Used to live on third street, bike got stolen. So glad I don't live there for when this shit happens, would hate to have to waste ammo. User was warned for this post
It will be interesting if the riots will spill down town center blvd toward Rhinehart/Lake Mary BLVD. My best friend lives less than 3 miles from the "incident", and I always forget when I make the drive that this could potentially get bad!
I hope it doesn't because Sanford is a beautiful city
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On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:On July 06 2013 06:55 Shady Sands wrote:On July 06 2013 06:39 PanN wrote:On July 06 2013 06:37 AimForTheBushes wrote:Reporting like this (from abcnews) is simply disgusting, and the bias in it infuriates me to no end. Dr. Bao, one of the worst expert witnesses I've ever seen, says "he could have been alive between 1 to 10 minutes after being shot".. and these cunts spin it into "Trayvon suffered in pain for 10 long minutes" before dying... ugh.. On July 06 2013 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman Judge Rejects Motion to Dismiss the Case The prosecution rested their second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman today and his legal team immediately asked the judge throw out all charges, arguing that the state had failed to present evidence he murdered Trayvon Martin.
The judge swiftly rejected the argument, but not before both sides made emotional legal arguments that are usually reserved for summations at the end of a trial.
In an impassioned plea, Zimmerman's defense attorney Mark O'Mara stated that the state did not produce direct or circumstantial evidence that Zimmerman acted with "ill-will or spite," the Florida requirements for second degree murder.
"There is not a scintilla of evidence to support that," O'Mara said referring to the implication that Zimmerman acted out of "ill will and spite."
"He has the undeniable injuries that reference nothing other than an attack by Trayvon Martin," O'Mara said.
"You cannot look at that picture of my client's nose and say he wasn't beaten in the face," he said. O'Mara said the court would draw a similar conclusion by looking at the photos showing the back of Zimmerman's bloody head.
Zimmerman "did not land one blow… all he did was scream for help," O'Mara said.
Prosecutor Rich Mantei told the judge that Zimmerman "had enough in his heart to stop his trip to the grocery store…to get out of his car in the rain, follow him, and then as the witnesses make clear pursue him and grab him."
"There are two people involved here. One of them is dead and one of them is a liar," the prosecutor said.
Mantei hammered at what he said are inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story, saying he "flat out lied" about being unaware of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. Mantei asked how could a jury be expected "to take his word about anything."
The request to end the controversial trial followed the testimony of the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy on Trayvon Martin's body and the teens mother and brother who said they could hear him screaming for help on 911 calls made before he died.
Dr. Shiping Bao testified after Martin's mother and brother took the stand as the prosecution nears completion of its case against Zimmerman.
Bao told the court that Martin, 17, was shot in the heart and said, "There was no chance he could survive."
The medical examiner said that Martin would have lived anywhere from one minute to 10 minutes after being shot as his beating heart ran out of blood to pump.
Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's DNA Not on Zimmerman's Gun Watch Video
George Zimmerman's Understanding of 'Stand Your Ground' Law Watch Video
"His brain is still alive?" prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda asked.
"Yes," Bao replied.
"He can still feel pain in other words?" the prosecutor asked.
"Yes," he replied.
Catch up on all the details from the George Zimmerman murder trial.
De la Rioda asked whether Martin would have been able to move after he was wounded.
"From my experience and another autopsy we did three weeks ago, I don't believe he could move," Bao said.
Bao's claim that Martin would have been unable to move could cast doubt on Zimmerman's version of what happened during their violent confrontation on Feb. 26, 2012.
Zimmerman, who is being tried on charges of second degree murder, has maintained that he shot Martin after he was knocked down and beaten by Martin and the teenager went for Zimmerman's gun. After the shot was fired, Martin sat up and said, "You got me," Zimmerman told police and media.
Bao's claim that the wound would have immediately incapacitated Martin is the latest example of what the prosecution says are discrepancies in Zimmerman's version of what happened that night
But Zimmerman's lawyer, Don West, got Bao to say during cross examination that it may have been possible for Martin to move a little after he was shot. "But only one person in this world knows," Bao added.
Bao's credibility took a hit when he admitted that he had changed his opinion on several elements. He originally estimated that Martin may have lived for as long as three minutes, but that was lengthened to as long as 10 minutes. He also said he changed his opinion about the effect of THC from marijuana in Martin's body.
Bao's testimony followed the mother and brother of Martin who both took the stand and told jurors that they could hear him scream for help on 911 calls made just before he died.
"That scream, do you recognize that?" de la Rionda asked Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton.
"Yes, it's Trayvon Benjamin Martin," she answered.
Prosecutors hoped that the testimony of Martin's mother and brother may have an emotional and convincing impact on the jury and that the jurors would tie their words to the opinion of FBI audio expert Hirotaka Nakasone who testified earlier in the trial that it was not possible to definitively identify the voice using available acceptable technology.
Nakasone said the best person to identify the voice would be someone who is intimately familiar with the voice.
During cross examination defense attorney Mark O'Mara asked Fulton if she hoped it would be her son, because if it wasn't her that could mean he was responsible for his death, O'Mara said.
The George Zimmerman Case in Pictures
"I heard my son screaming," Fulton replied. "I didn't hope for anything. I simply listened to the tape."
It's not clear what impact it could have the jury, which consists of six women.
A major point of contention in the trial is who was heard screaming for help in the background of 911 tapes the night Martin was killed. Fulton claims it was her son, while Zimmerman's father insists that it is his son's voice that is heard.
Moments before she began her testimony, Fulton tweeted, "I pray that God gives me strength to properly represent my Angel Trayvon. He may not be perfect but he's mine. I plead the blood of Jesus for healing."
Trayvon Martin's brother, Jahvaris Fulton, also told the jury that the voice on the tape was that of his brother.
But under cross examination O'Mara played a tape of an interview with Jahvaris Fulton in which Fulton is heard saying "I'm not sure" when asked if that was his brother screaming. The jury was out of the courtroom at the time the tape was played. It's not clear whether they will be allowed to hear it at some point.
O'Mara had asked Jahvaris Fulton whether or not he had ever doubted that the screams were from his brother.
Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's DNA Not on Zimmerman's Gun Watch Video
George Zimmerman's Understanding of 'Stand Your Ground' Law Watch Video
"When we heard it in the mayor's office I didn't want to believe it was him. It was clouded by shock and denial and sadness. I didn't want to believe it was him," the brother said.
Before the day's testimony was over, O'Mara put Zimmerman's mother, Gladys Zimmerman on the stand, replied the 911 tapes and sked her if she recognized the voice that was screaming.
"My son, George," she replied. When asked how she could be sure, she answered, "Because he is my son." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/trayvon-martin-lived-long-10-painful-minutes-shot/story?id=19582338#.Udc6lfmcfmc It's beyond disgusting honestly, and nothing will ever come of it. https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=trayvon riot The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites?
He's white and mexican.
On July 06 2013 12:42 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:On July 06 2013 06:55 Shady Sands wrote:On July 06 2013 06:39 PanN wrote:On July 06 2013 06:37 AimForTheBushes wrote:Reporting like this (from abcnews) is simply disgusting, and the bias in it infuriates me to no end. Dr. Bao, one of the worst expert witnesses I've ever seen, says "he could have been alive between 1 to 10 minutes after being shot".. and these cunts spin it into "Trayvon suffered in pain for 10 long minutes" before dying... ugh.. On July 06 2013 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman Judge Rejects Motion to Dismiss the Case The prosecution rested their second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman today and his legal team immediately asked the judge throw out all charges, arguing that the state had failed to present evidence he murdered Trayvon Martin.
The judge swiftly rejected the argument, but not before both sides made emotional legal arguments that are usually reserved for summations at the end of a trial.
In an impassioned plea, Zimmerman's defense attorney Mark O'Mara stated that the state did not produce direct or circumstantial evidence that Zimmerman acted with "ill-will or spite," the Florida requirements for second degree murder.
"There is not a scintilla of evidence to support that," O'Mara said referring to the implication that Zimmerman acted out of "ill will and spite."
"He has the undeniable injuries that reference nothing other than an attack by Trayvon Martin," O'Mara said.
"You cannot look at that picture of my client's nose and say he wasn't beaten in the face," he said. O'Mara said the court would draw a similar conclusion by looking at the photos showing the back of Zimmerman's bloody head.
Zimmerman "did not land one blow… all he did was scream for help," O'Mara said.
Prosecutor Rich Mantei told the judge that Zimmerman "had enough in his heart to stop his trip to the grocery store…to get out of his car in the rain, follow him, and then as the witnesses make clear pursue him and grab him."
"There are two people involved here. One of them is dead and one of them is a liar," the prosecutor said.
Mantei hammered at what he said are inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story, saying he "flat out lied" about being unaware of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. Mantei asked how could a jury be expected "to take his word about anything."
The request to end the controversial trial followed the testimony of the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy on Trayvon Martin's body and the teens mother and brother who said they could hear him screaming for help on 911 calls made before he died.
Dr. Shiping Bao testified after Martin's mother and brother took the stand as the prosecution nears completion of its case against Zimmerman.
Bao told the court that Martin, 17, was shot in the heart and said, "There was no chance he could survive."
The medical examiner said that Martin would have lived anywhere from one minute to 10 minutes after being shot as his beating heart ran out of blood to pump.
Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's DNA Not on Zimmerman's Gun Watch Video
George Zimmerman's Understanding of 'Stand Your Ground' Law Watch Video
"His brain is still alive?" prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda asked.
"Yes," Bao replied.
"He can still feel pain in other words?" the prosecutor asked.
"Yes," he replied.
Catch up on all the details from the George Zimmerman murder trial.
De la Rioda asked whether Martin would have been able to move after he was wounded.
"From my experience and another autopsy we did three weeks ago, I don't believe he could move," Bao said.
Bao's claim that Martin would have been unable to move could cast doubt on Zimmerman's version of what happened during their violent confrontation on Feb. 26, 2012.
Zimmerman, who is being tried on charges of second degree murder, has maintained that he shot Martin after he was knocked down and beaten by Martin and the teenager went for Zimmerman's gun. After the shot was fired, Martin sat up and said, "You got me," Zimmerman told police and media.
Bao's claim that the wound would have immediately incapacitated Martin is the latest example of what the prosecution says are discrepancies in Zimmerman's version of what happened that night
But Zimmerman's lawyer, Don West, got Bao to say during cross examination that it may have been possible for Martin to move a little after he was shot. "But only one person in this world knows," Bao added.
Bao's credibility took a hit when he admitted that he had changed his opinion on several elements. He originally estimated that Martin may have lived for as long as three minutes, but that was lengthened to as long as 10 minutes. He also said he changed his opinion about the effect of THC from marijuana in Martin's body.
Bao's testimony followed the mother and brother of Martin who both took the stand and told jurors that they could hear him scream for help on 911 calls made just before he died.
"That scream, do you recognize that?" de la Rionda asked Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton.
"Yes, it's Trayvon Benjamin Martin," she answered.
Prosecutors hoped that the testimony of Martin's mother and brother may have an emotional and convincing impact on the jury and that the jurors would tie their words to the opinion of FBI audio expert Hirotaka Nakasone who testified earlier in the trial that it was not possible to definitively identify the voice using available acceptable technology.
Nakasone said the best person to identify the voice would be someone who is intimately familiar with the voice.
During cross examination defense attorney Mark O'Mara asked Fulton if she hoped it would be her son, because if it wasn't her that could mean he was responsible for his death, O'Mara said.
The George Zimmerman Case in Pictures
"I heard my son screaming," Fulton replied. "I didn't hope for anything. I simply listened to the tape."
It's not clear what impact it could have the jury, which consists of six women.
A major point of contention in the trial is who was heard screaming for help in the background of 911 tapes the night Martin was killed. Fulton claims it was her son, while Zimmerman's father insists that it is his son's voice that is heard.
Moments before she began her testimony, Fulton tweeted, "I pray that God gives me strength to properly represent my Angel Trayvon. He may not be perfect but he's mine. I plead the blood of Jesus for healing."
Trayvon Martin's brother, Jahvaris Fulton, also told the jury that the voice on the tape was that of his brother.
But under cross examination O'Mara played a tape of an interview with Jahvaris Fulton in which Fulton is heard saying "I'm not sure" when asked if that was his brother screaming. The jury was out of the courtroom at the time the tape was played. It's not clear whether they will be allowed to hear it at some point.
O'Mara had asked Jahvaris Fulton whether or not he had ever doubted that the screams were from his brother.
Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's DNA Not on Zimmerman's Gun Watch Video
George Zimmerman's Understanding of 'Stand Your Ground' Law Watch Video
"When we heard it in the mayor's office I didn't want to believe it was him. It was clouded by shock and denial and sadness. I didn't want to believe it was him," the brother said.
Before the day's testimony was over, O'Mara put Zimmerman's mother, Gladys Zimmerman on the stand, replied the 911 tapes and sked her if she recognized the voice that was screaming.
"My son, George," she replied. When asked how she could be sure, she answered, "Because he is my son." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/trayvon-martin-lived-long-10-painful-minutes-shot/story?id=19582338#.Udc6lfmcfmc It's beyond disgusting honestly, and nothing will ever come of it. https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=trayvon riot The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? Watch the news for a day. Go on facebook for a day. You'll see why real quick. I've seen posts of these trashy fucking kids wearing shirts with GZ's face and it of course says "Pussy ass cracker." Keep in mind these pieces of trash are wearing this shit to public schools. So sad.
This isn't my opinion, but by your logic you're as equally a "piece of trash". People are free to dislike (or even hate) others and it's not specifically peculiar at all to dislike someone who killed another person self-defense or not; it's safe to say every person alive has at least one person they hate enough to call names, but not everyone alive is a "piece of trash" because it doesn't conflict with your opinion, so if solely being contrary to your opinion warrants being a "piece of trash" then you're also one for being contrary to their opinion.
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On July 06 2013 14:00 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:On July 06 2013 06:55 Shady Sands wrote:On July 06 2013 06:39 PanN wrote:On July 06 2013 06:37 AimForTheBushes wrote:Reporting like this (from abcnews) is simply disgusting, and the bias in it infuriates me to no end. Dr. Bao, one of the worst expert witnesses I've ever seen, says "he could have been alive between 1 to 10 minutes after being shot".. and these cunts spin it into "Trayvon suffered in pain for 10 long minutes" before dying... ugh.. On July 06 2013 06:31 dAPhREAk wrote:George Zimmerman Judge Rejects Motion to Dismiss the Case The prosecution rested their second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman today and his legal team immediately asked the judge throw out all charges, arguing that the state had failed to present evidence he murdered Trayvon Martin.
The judge swiftly rejected the argument, but not before both sides made emotional legal arguments that are usually reserved for summations at the end of a trial.
In an impassioned plea, Zimmerman's defense attorney Mark O'Mara stated that the state did not produce direct or circumstantial evidence that Zimmerman acted with "ill-will or spite," the Florida requirements for second degree murder.
"There is not a scintilla of evidence to support that," O'Mara said referring to the implication that Zimmerman acted out of "ill will and spite."
"He has the undeniable injuries that reference nothing other than an attack by Trayvon Martin," O'Mara said.
"You cannot look at that picture of my client's nose and say he wasn't beaten in the face," he said. O'Mara said the court would draw a similar conclusion by looking at the photos showing the back of Zimmerman's bloody head.
Zimmerman "did not land one blow… all he did was scream for help," O'Mara said.
Prosecutor Rich Mantei told the judge that Zimmerman "had enough in his heart to stop his trip to the grocery store…to get out of his car in the rain, follow him, and then as the witnesses make clear pursue him and grab him."
"There are two people involved here. One of them is dead and one of them is a liar," the prosecutor said.
Mantei hammered at what he said are inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story, saying he "flat out lied" about being unaware of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. Mantei asked how could a jury be expected "to take his word about anything."
The request to end the controversial trial followed the testimony of the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy on Trayvon Martin's body and the teens mother and brother who said they could hear him screaming for help on 911 calls made before he died.
Dr. Shiping Bao testified after Martin's mother and brother took the stand as the prosecution nears completion of its case against Zimmerman.
Bao told the court that Martin, 17, was shot in the heart and said, "There was no chance he could survive."
The medical examiner said that Martin would have lived anywhere from one minute to 10 minutes after being shot as his beating heart ran out of blood to pump.
Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's DNA Not on Zimmerman's Gun Watch Video
George Zimmerman's Understanding of 'Stand Your Ground' Law Watch Video
"His brain is still alive?" prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda asked.
"Yes," Bao replied.
"He can still feel pain in other words?" the prosecutor asked.
"Yes," he replied.
Catch up on all the details from the George Zimmerman murder trial.
De la Rioda asked whether Martin would have been able to move after he was wounded.
"From my experience and another autopsy we did three weeks ago, I don't believe he could move," Bao said.
Bao's claim that Martin would have been unable to move could cast doubt on Zimmerman's version of what happened during their violent confrontation on Feb. 26, 2012.
Zimmerman, who is being tried on charges of second degree murder, has maintained that he shot Martin after he was knocked down and beaten by Martin and the teenager went for Zimmerman's gun. After the shot was fired, Martin sat up and said, "You got me," Zimmerman told police and media.
Bao's claim that the wound would have immediately incapacitated Martin is the latest example of what the prosecution says are discrepancies in Zimmerman's version of what happened that night
But Zimmerman's lawyer, Don West, got Bao to say during cross examination that it may have been possible for Martin to move a little after he was shot. "But only one person in this world knows," Bao added.
Bao's credibility took a hit when he admitted that he had changed his opinion on several elements. He originally estimated that Martin may have lived for as long as three minutes, but that was lengthened to as long as 10 minutes. He also said he changed his opinion about the effect of THC from marijuana in Martin's body.
Bao's testimony followed the mother and brother of Martin who both took the stand and told jurors that they could hear him scream for help on 911 calls made just before he died.
"That scream, do you recognize that?" de la Rionda asked Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton.
"Yes, it's Trayvon Benjamin Martin," she answered.
Prosecutors hoped that the testimony of Martin's mother and brother may have an emotional and convincing impact on the jury and that the jurors would tie their words to the opinion of FBI audio expert Hirotaka Nakasone who testified earlier in the trial that it was not possible to definitively identify the voice using available acceptable technology.
Nakasone said the best person to identify the voice would be someone who is intimately familiar with the voice.
During cross examination defense attorney Mark O'Mara asked Fulton if she hoped it would be her son, because if it wasn't her that could mean he was responsible for his death, O'Mara said.
The George Zimmerman Case in Pictures
"I heard my son screaming," Fulton replied. "I didn't hope for anything. I simply listened to the tape."
It's not clear what impact it could have the jury, which consists of six women.
A major point of contention in the trial is who was heard screaming for help in the background of 911 tapes the night Martin was killed. Fulton claims it was her son, while Zimmerman's father insists that it is his son's voice that is heard.
Moments before she began her testimony, Fulton tweeted, "I pray that God gives me strength to properly represent my Angel Trayvon. He may not be perfect but he's mine. I plead the blood of Jesus for healing."
Trayvon Martin's brother, Jahvaris Fulton, also told the jury that the voice on the tape was that of his brother.
But under cross examination O'Mara played a tape of an interview with Jahvaris Fulton in which Fulton is heard saying "I'm not sure" when asked if that was his brother screaming. The jury was out of the courtroom at the time the tape was played. It's not clear whether they will be allowed to hear it at some point.
O'Mara had asked Jahvaris Fulton whether or not he had ever doubted that the screams were from his brother.
Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's DNA Not on Zimmerman's Gun Watch Video
George Zimmerman's Understanding of 'Stand Your Ground' Law Watch Video
"When we heard it in the mayor's office I didn't want to believe it was him. It was clouded by shock and denial and sadness. I didn't want to believe it was him," the brother said.
Before the day's testimony was over, O'Mara put Zimmerman's mother, Gladys Zimmerman on the stand, replied the 911 tapes and sked her if she recognized the voice that was screaming.
"My son, George," she replied. When asked how she could be sure, she answered, "Because he is my son." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/trayvon-martin-lived-long-10-painful-minutes-shot/story?id=19582338#.Udc6lfmcfmc It's beyond disgusting honestly, and nothing will ever come of it. https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=trayvon riot The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? He's white and mexican. Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 12:42 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:On July 06 2013 06:55 Shady Sands wrote:On July 06 2013 06:39 PanN wrote:On July 06 2013 06:37 AimForTheBushes wrote:Reporting like this (from abcnews) is simply disgusting, and the bias in it infuriates me to no end. Dr. Bao, one of the worst expert witnesses I've ever seen, says "he could have been alive between 1 to 10 minutes after being shot".. and these cunts spin it into "Trayvon suffered in pain for 10 long minutes" before dying... ugh.. It's beyond disgusting honestly, and nothing will ever come of it. https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=trayvon riot The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? Watch the news for a day. Go on facebook for a day. You'll see why real quick. I've seen posts of these trashy fucking kids wearing shirts with GZ's face and it of course says "Pussy ass cracker." Keep in mind these pieces of trash are wearing this shit to public schools. So sad. This isn't my opinion, but by your logic you're as equally a "piece of trash". People are free to dislike (or even hate) others and it's not specifically peculiar to dislike someone who killed another person self-defense or not, so if solely being contrary to your opinion warrants being a "piece of trash" then you're also one for being contrary to their opinion.
Uhh huh? Hypocrite much?
I think you are taking his post too literally. Kids are wearing shirts to school with the word "cracker" which is a racist term and offensive to whites. By your logic, can everyone else wear a shirt to school or anywhere that says "fuck niggers" on it too?
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Cracker is a much less offensive word than nigger because white people don't take it nearly as seriously as black people do for nigger.
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On July 06 2013 14:08 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 14:00 DemigodcelpH wrote:On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:On July 06 2013 06:55 Shady Sands wrote:On July 06 2013 06:39 PanN wrote:On July 06 2013 06:37 AimForTheBushes wrote:Reporting like this (from abcnews) is simply disgusting, and the bias in it infuriates me to no end. Dr. Bao, one of the worst expert witnesses I've ever seen, says "he could have been alive between 1 to 10 minutes after being shot".. and these cunts spin it into "Trayvon suffered in pain for 10 long minutes" before dying... ugh.. It's beyond disgusting honestly, and nothing will ever come of it. https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=trayvon riot The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? He's white and mexican. On July 06 2013 12:42 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:On July 06 2013 06:55 Shady Sands wrote:On July 06 2013 06:39 PanN wrote:On July 06 2013 06:37 AimForTheBushes wrote:
Reporting like this (from abcnews) is simply disgusting, and the bias in it infuriates me to no end. Dr. Bao, one of the worst expert witnesses I've ever seen, says "he could have been alive between 1 to 10 minutes after being shot".. and these cunts spin it into "Trayvon suffered in pain for 10 long minutes" before dying... ugh..
[quote] It's beyond disgusting honestly, and nothing will ever come of it. https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=trayvon riot The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? Watch the news for a day. Go on facebook for a day. You'll see why real quick. I've seen posts of these trashy fucking kids wearing shirts with GZ's face and it of course says "Pussy ass cracker." Keep in mind these pieces of trash are wearing this shit to public schools. So sad. This isn't my opinion, but by your logic you're as equally a "piece of trash". People are free to dislike (or even hate) others and it's not specifically peculiar to dislike someone who killed another person self-defense or not, so if solely being contrary to your opinion warrants being a "piece of trash" then you're also one for being contrary to their opinion. Uhh huh? Hypocrite much? I think you are taking his post too literally. Kids are wearing shirts to school with the word "cracker" which is a racist term and offensive to whites. By your logic, can everyone else wear a shirt to school or anywhere that says "fuck niggers" on it too?
First of all those aren't equivalents. While I can't deny some may be offended by it every white person I've ever interacted with hasn't considered the phrase "cracker" offensive. It just doesn't have the painful history behind it, so it's about three tiers below the offensiveness of "nigger" and can't be directly compared. As for taking his post literally I don't know, but I'm sensing more hate toward the group of people he is generalizing than I am from any person I've talked with who was against Zimmerman.
Furthermore you are misinterpreting him: he wasn't saying "they are wearing a cracker shirt, and therefore are pieces of trash" — he was saying "they are pieces of trash, and are additionally wearing cracker shirt". From this we can conclude he likely hates youths who oppose Zimmerman, and not people with offensive shirts. Regardless of how literal he was I wanted to point out the inconsistency in his logic in that to the contrary side of this he could also be the "piece of trash" if it's based around how you view the case.
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On July 06 2013 14:18 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 14:08 Esk23 wrote:On July 06 2013 14:00 DemigodcelpH wrote:On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:On July 06 2013 06:55 Shady Sands wrote:On July 06 2013 06:39 PanN wrote:On July 06 2013 06:37 AimForTheBushes wrote:
Reporting like this (from abcnews) is simply disgusting, and the bias in it infuriates me to no end. Dr. Bao, one of the worst expert witnesses I've ever seen, says "he could have been alive between 1 to 10 minutes after being shot".. and these cunts spin it into "Trayvon suffered in pain for 10 long minutes" before dying... ugh..
[quote] It's beyond disgusting honestly, and nothing will ever come of it. https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=trayvon riot The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? He's white and mexican. On July 06 2013 12:42 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? Watch the news for a day. Go on facebook for a day. You'll see why real quick. I've seen posts of these trashy fucking kids wearing shirts with GZ's face and it of course says "Pussy ass cracker." Keep in mind these pieces of trash are wearing this shit to public schools. So sad. This isn't my opinion, but by your logic you're as equally a "piece of trash". People are free to dislike (or even hate) others and it's not specifically peculiar to dislike someone who killed another person self-defense or not, so if solely being contrary to your opinion warrants being a "piece of trash" then you're also one for being contrary to their opinion. Uhh huh? Hypocrite much? I think you are taking his post too literally. Kids are wearing shirts to school with the word "cracker" which is a racist term and offensive to whites. By your logic, can everyone else wear a shirt to school or anywhere that says "fuck niggers" on it too? First of all those aren't equivalents. While I can't deny some may be offended by it every white person I've ever interacted with hasn't considered the phrase "cracker" offensive. It just doesn't have the painful history behind it, so it's about three tiers below the offensiveness of "nigger" and can't be directly compared. As for taking his post literally I don't know, but I'm sensing more hate toward the group of people he is generalizing then I am from any person I've talked with who was against Zimmerman. Furthermore you are misinterpreting him: he wasn't saying "they are wearing a cracker shirt, and therefore are pieces of trash" — he was saying "they are pieces of trash, and are additionally wearing cracker shirt". From this we can conclude he likely hates youths who oppose Zimmerman, and not people with offensive shirts. Regardless of how literal he was I wanted to point out the inconsistency in his logic in that to the contrary side of this he could also be the "piece of trash" if it's based around how you view the case.
He's calling them pieces of trash for the shit they post on face book, and then he's observing what they wear to school. As to your first point, you should go back to tumblr lol.
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I'll just say that I have noticed that the people who are vehemently opposed to Zimmerman are usually not informed about the case at all and make no effort whatsoever to get informed. While I would not call them "trash", I definitely think they are engaging in utterly irresponsible and reprehensible behavior.
Any teen wearing a shirt that says: "Pussy Ass Cracker" with a picture of Zimmerman on it definitely has made a strong argument to their own trashiness, and if they were not suspended for bringing it to school than that reflects horribly on the school itself.
edit: I would say the same thing if some teen was wearing a shirt with the words: "Thug Piece of Shit" with Trayvon's face on it. Wearing anything with that kind of inflammatory language is itself a trashy thing to do, and it is especially trashy to associate it with a person.
Also, I will say that there is a clear difference between people who think Zimmerman is guilty, and express that with informed opinions, and people who say things like: "Pussy ass cracker KKK racist asshole shot an innocent black child, fucker should be hung!"
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On July 06 2013 14:21 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 14:18 DemigodcelpH wrote:On July 06 2013 14:08 Esk23 wrote:On July 06 2013 14:00 DemigodcelpH wrote:On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? He's white and mexican. On July 06 2013 12:42 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 12:40 zbedlam wrote:On July 06 2013 07:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 06 2013 07:27 Krohm wrote:On July 06 2013 07:03 Sermokala wrote:The real scary part is the tweets of people who are going to kill black people if they riot after this. Are you actually serious? That is the thing that scares you? Not the actual rioting for no reason??? What? Anyway I was watching Nancy Grace's coverage of this trial finally... And well I'm at a loss for words due to the extreme amounts of idiocy. However I did notice her voice is the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. The best part will be when whites are killed due to this riot and people will still claim justice for Trayvon Martin. I hope every single person who riots is shot dead the second they attempt to steal/damage personal property, harm, or kill someone. Isn't GZ hispanic? Why would black people be rampaging against whites? Watch the news for a day. Go on facebook for a day. You'll see why real quick. I've seen posts of these trashy fucking kids wearing shirts with GZ's face and it of course says "Pussy ass cracker." Keep in mind these pieces of trash are wearing this shit to public schools. So sad. This isn't my opinion, but by your logic you're as equally a "piece of trash". People are free to dislike (or even hate) others and it's not specifically peculiar to dislike someone who killed another person self-defense or not, so if solely being contrary to your opinion warrants being a "piece of trash" then you're also one for being contrary to their opinion. Uhh huh? Hypocrite much? I think you are taking his post too literally. Kids are wearing shirts to school with the word "cracker" which is a racist term and offensive to whites. By your logic, can everyone else wear a shirt to school or anywhere that says "fuck niggers" on it too? First of all those aren't equivalents. While I can't deny some may be offended by it every white person I've ever interacted with hasn't considered the phrase "cracker" offensive. It just doesn't have the painful history behind it, so it's about three tiers below the offensiveness of "nigger" and can't be directly compared. As for taking his post literally I don't know, but I'm sensing more hate toward the group of people he is generalizing then I am from any person I've talked with who was against Zimmerman. Furthermore you are misinterpreting him: he wasn't saying "they are wearing a cracker shirt, and therefore are pieces of trash" — he was saying "they are pieces of trash, and are additionally wearing cracker shirt". From this we can conclude he likely hates youths who oppose Zimmerman, and not people with offensive shirts. Regardless of how literal he was I wanted to point out the inconsistency in his logic in that to the contrary side of this he could also be the "piece of trash" if it's based around how you view the case. He's calling them pieces of trash for the shit they post on face book, and then he's observing what they wear to school.
No he's not. He also said "watch the news" which is for all intents and purposes almost the same as "go outside" — he's referring to the general youths who oppose Zimmerman and could potentially riot, and not people who wear or post specific things (that was just mentioned as "seasoning on top"). It would be illogical for him to not hate a potential rioter just because that one hasn't worn a certain shirt.
On July 06 2013 14:21 bo1b wrote:
As to your first point, you should go back to tumblr lol.
When you disagree with something instead of sitting there, steaming a little, and then incoherently (why would I go back to a place I've never been?) lashing out I recommend trying to calm yourself a little and thinking of a rational rebuttal. Presenting actual counter-arguments will get you taken a lot more seriously.
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On July 06 2013 14:15 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
Cracker is a much less offensive word than nigger because white people don't take it nearly as seriously as black people do for nigger.
Nope. Either both are bad or neither is. Anything else is hypocrisy. How seriously one takes it is irrelevant.
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On July 06 2013 06:09 dAPhREAk wrote:
wow, this guy has a great story. "i heard the scream on the news, i didnt know what was happening, i knew it was my nephew by my ears and i felt it." cute.
still think all these witnesses' statements that it is trayvon or zimmerman is bullshit though. too much confirmation bias.
Exactly what I was addressing several pages back. All this is, is a weak attempt by both sides to tug at the heartstrings of the jury rather than appealing to the cold hard facts.
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On July 06 2013 16:00 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 14:15 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
Cracker is a much less offensive word than nigger because white people don't take it nearly as seriously as black people do for nigger. Nope. Either both are bad or neither is. Anything else is hypocrisy. How seriously one takes it is irrelevant.
Why is it so black and white? If you compare it with swear words people make that distinction all the time. You might have a problem with some of the more harsh swears but if someone says "damn" or "shit" you won't give a crap. Both can be considered bad, but that doesn't mean they have to have the same negative value.
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On July 06 2013 16:21 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 16:00 Millitron wrote:On July 06 2013 14:15 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
Cracker is a much less offensive word than nigger because white people don't take it nearly as seriously as black people do for nigger. Nope. Either both are bad or neither is. Anything else is hypocrisy. How seriously one takes it is irrelevant. Why is it so black and white? If you compare it with swear words people make that distinction all the time. You might have a problem with some of the more harsh swears but if someone says "damn" or "shit" you won't give a crap. Both can be considered bad, but that doesn't mean they have to have the same negative value.
It matters based off the context they are used in. I think the words are only as offensive as the context they are used in. Nigger was previously used to dehumanize a whole race, but as you can see in modern culture it isn't used to do that anymore. Whether you say nigga/nigger the word has the same roots and original purpose. If I call someone my nigga, or say I'm going to kill this cracker ass mother fucker, which one is worse/more scary?
I don't believe that words are inherently good or bad. Words are just a medium of communication and what can be good or bad is the message that you are delivering with those words.
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On July 06 2013 16:00 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 14:15 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
Cracker is a much less offensive word than nigger because white people don't take it nearly as seriously as black people do for nigger. Nope. Either both are bad or neither is. Anything else is hypocrisy. How seriously one takes it is irrelevant.
Not really one has historical context + and was used too oppress people. The other is something I eat with my soup.
Really not comparable.
There are some situations like the sentence above " I'm going to kill this cracker ass"
I think whenever you say " I'm going to kill this (insert the blank)" It's scary, regardless of which term you use there.(violence and all of that you know, scary stuff)
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On July 06 2013 16:00 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 14:15 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
Cracker is a much less offensive word than nigger because white people don't take it nearly as seriously as black people do for nigger. Nope. Either both are bad or neither is. Anything else is hypocrisy. How seriously one takes it is irrelevant.
There is nothing hypocritical about finding the word 'nigger' more offensive than the word 'cracker.'
Both are offensive. Than again, some white people will never understand how hurtful the word 'nigger' is to most black people, or 'chink' is to a chinese person, or 'fag' is to a gay person, etc.
They might think they do, but when they compare them to everyday curse words, they clearly don't.
When a white person calls a black person 'a nigger,' there is a connotation that they're celebrating (or trying to reclaim) a time when Blacks were persecuted and oppressed completely. While you may think that the word 'cracker' is 'rude' or even dehumanizing, there was a never a time in American History where all Whites, regardless of origin, were literally dehumanized and bought, sold or traded like animals.
Imagine getting in a fight with a Jewish person, and saying something along the lines of, "I should throw you in the oven with all the others!" You're kiiiiiiiiiiind of crossing an invisible line there. If you have the audacity to call a black person a nigger as an insult don't be surprised if they react as though you're trying to put them in a cage.
How seriously someone takes it may be irrelevant to some people, but that would mostly be a result of their incapacity to empathize with other people or their cultural baggage. Some people are so self-centered, immature and aloof they don't care if other people find them offensive, and get off on being offensive for the sake of it (*cough Destiny cough*). That doesn't make them 'post-racial' or 'free-thinkers,' that makes them man-children.
All that being said, a Creepy Ass Cracker T-shirt of Zimmerman is fucking offensive, especially considering he hasn't been found guilty of anything, and on a scale of 1 to 10, Zimmerman isn't close to being the creepiest 'white' guy out there.
I admit though, if the shirt had Donald Trump or Michael Jackson's face on it, I'd probably find it funny.
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The insult doesn't matter. The point of "racial" insults is that they're racial-based insult. What they are, what they mean and their history doesn't matter. Racist insults are racist insults. It's the intent that matters.
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What the hell are you idiots rambling on about? Seriously we need 2 pages of you guys bickering back and forth about this? Can we stay on topic? If you need to yell at each other, send each other messages and stop wasting this thread.
Also, stop bringing this stupid ass racism debate back into this thread. A mod should really be warning almost every post on page 288 as none of it is on topic.
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Vatican City State334 Posts
People who are trying to diminish the word cracker are the ones causing the problems here, it's typical SJW marxism in action. Both nigger and cracker are racist terms and have historical context (despite what someone said above), there's no need to perform linguistic acrobatics over which is "less worse". You should no more be playing down the word cracker than the word fag. Either you're blanket against hateful terms, or you have to admit you're okay with hateful terms being said as long as they're against groups you don't care about.
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Before watching the trial yesterday, I was not very interested in this case. I had no opinion on whether Zimmerman is guilty or not.
After watching the trial, I have to say the defense was A LOT stronger than the prosecution.
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Will there be rioting after Zimmerman leaves the courtroom as free person?
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EPT
