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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On December 15 2012 14:03 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:02 Saryph wrote:
Didn't he shoot her in her house/bed? So the gun-free zone of the school didn't really matter for her, though of course it would for the faculty at the school. Though I don't really like the idea of teachers owning guns.
I did have a 'resource officer' at my high school when I was growing up though, and he did have a firearm if I remember correctly. Why shouldn't teachers be allowed to own guns? Obviously they aren't allowed to bring them into school. If you are saying nobody should be allowed to own guns, then banning teachers from the makes sense. If you are saying people can own guns, but not teachers, that's strange to me. Is there data to back up a claim that allowing teachers to own guns is sufficiently bad?
I meant that I do not like the idea of teachers bringing guns into schools, sorry.
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Maybe we should ban fertilizer because Timothy McVeigh taught us how to turn it into a bomb. Look at his body count...far worse then anything to this point with guns...Yep, I want to hear more talk about banning fertilizer. And spoons too...people would eat less if there were no spoons...eating less means less obesity and poor health...
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On December 15 2012 13:59 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:54 Focuspants wrote:On December 15 2012 13:48 Sermokala wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 Destro wrote:
I don`t think anyone is saying making guns illegal would make a gun free utopia. but its a step in the right direction.
Frankily, i dont think its a legality issue at all. its a society. american society needs to grow up and move past the gun owneship bullshit. the rest of the western world has, and the rest of the western world is a better place. America is now defined by 2 different countries that don't really work well together. It has a bunch of folks living in the city that votes liberal is scared of their fellow citizens and has to lock their doors and their cars. It also has a bunch of folks living out in the country that votes conservative doesn't have to be afraid of their citizens and doesn't have to lock their doors and their cars. Huh? You mean the liberals in those big cities, that make all of the money in the country and pay for things in those taker states that are conservative havens. Its nice of you to take their tax dollars and then make them seem like a different race of people. There is a divide in the US, but it is not based on the locking or unlocking of doors. Rofl you mean the conservative states that have disproportionate farming non payroll taxed people and disproportionate military participation? Because thats why they were able to give you that propaganda for you to use all the time. You have such irrational hate for people that don't agree with you that its impossible for anyone to give you a respectable discussion. Its not based on the locking or unlocking of doors but I can bet you that you will lock your door when you go to sleep tonight and I will not. I find victory enough in that.
I am not full of hate. You vilified all liberals in your original post, and I was just pointing out that without these "liberal" areas, the conservative states wouldnt have money to function properly. Its not nice to automatically look down upon and disregard over half of your country because they think differently from you. I pointed out 1 thing they do better than you, and you seemed to get pretty upset. How do you think they feel when you entirely write them off?
And if you think having teachers arm themselves is the solution to the problem, I dont know what to say. I would never be part of a society that required that for me to feel safe about my kids going to school. Just the thought of that terrifies me.
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On December 15 2012 14:05 Focuspants wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:59 Sermokala wrote:On December 15 2012 13:54 Focuspants wrote:On December 15 2012 13:48 Sermokala wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 Destro wrote:
I don`t think anyone is saying making guns illegal would make a gun free utopia. but its a step in the right direction.
Frankily, i dont think its a legality issue at all. its a society. american society needs to grow up and move past the gun owneship bullshit. the rest of the western world has, and the rest of the western world is a better place. America is now defined by 2 different countries that don't really work well together. It has a bunch of folks living in the city that votes liberal is scared of their fellow citizens and has to lock their doors and their cars. It also has a bunch of folks living out in the country that votes conservative doesn't have to be afraid of their citizens and doesn't have to lock their doors and their cars. Huh? You mean the liberals in those big cities, that make all of the money in the country and pay for things in those taker states that are conservative havens. Its nice of you to take their tax dollars and then make them seem like a different race of people. There is a divide in the US, but it is not based on the locking or unlocking of doors. Rofl you mean the conservative states that have disproportionate farming non payroll taxed people and disproportionate military participation? Because thats why they were able to give you that propaganda for you to use all the time. You have such irrational hate for people that don't agree with you that its impossible for anyone to give you a respectable discussion. Its not based on the locking or unlocking of doors but I can bet you that you will lock your door when you go to sleep tonight and I will not. I find victory enough in that. I am not full of hate. You vilified all liberals in your original post, and I was just pointing out that without these "liberal" areas, the conservative states wouldnt have money to function properly. Its not nice to automatically look down upon and disregard over half of your country because they think differently from you. I pointed out 1 thing they do better than you, and you seemed to get pretty upset. How do you think they feel when you entirely write them off? And if you think having teachers arm themselves is the solution to the problem, I dont know what to say. I would never be part of a society that required that for me to feel safe about my kids going to school. Just the thought of that terrifies me.
You're complete polarizing the issue. This isn't a red vs blue debate. It's about what's based on fact. I grew up in San Francisco and went to UCB for college. I can tell you this isn't a liberal vs conservative issue, it's about being on the right side of facts. The whole thing is counter-intuitive, and if you just take politics out of it and focus on policy you will realize gun control advocates are on the wrong side of reality.
I'm going to keep posting this because I got a PM saying what a wonderful resource it was:
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1/gun_facts_6_1_screen.pdf
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On December 15 2012 14:05 Focuspants wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:59 Sermokala wrote:On December 15 2012 13:54 Focuspants wrote:On December 15 2012 13:48 Sermokala wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 Destro wrote:
I don`t think anyone is saying making guns illegal would make a gun free utopia. but its a step in the right direction.
Frankily, i dont think its a legality issue at all. its a society. american society needs to grow up and move past the gun owneship bullshit. the rest of the western world has, and the rest of the western world is a better place. America is now defined by 2 different countries that don't really work well together. It has a bunch of folks living in the city that votes liberal is scared of their fellow citizens and has to lock their doors and their cars. It also has a bunch of folks living out in the country that votes conservative doesn't have to be afraid of their citizens and doesn't have to lock their doors and their cars. Huh? You mean the liberals in those big cities, that make all of the money in the country and pay for things in those taker states that are conservative havens. Its nice of you to take their tax dollars and then make them seem like a different race of people. There is a divide in the US, but it is not based on the locking or unlocking of doors. Rofl you mean the conservative states that have disproportionate farming non payroll taxed people and disproportionate military participation? Because thats why they were able to give you that propaganda for you to use all the time. You have such irrational hate for people that don't agree with you that its impossible for anyone to give you a respectable discussion. Its not based on the locking or unlocking of doors but I can bet you that you will lock your door when you go to sleep tonight and I will not. I find victory enough in that. I am not full of hate. You vilified all liberals in your original post, and I was just pointing out that without these "liberal" areas, the conservative states wouldnt have money to function properly. Its not nice to automatically look down upon and disregard over half of your country because they think differently from you. I pointed out 1 thing they do better than you, and you seemed to get pretty upset. How do you think they feel when you entirely write them off? And if you think having teachers arm themselves is the solution to the problem, I dont know what to say. I would never be part of a society that required that for me to feel safe about my kids going to school. Just the thought of that terrifies me.
And without all the food and oil these "conservative" areas provide you wouldn't be able to run your car or eat. I didn't vilify liberals in my first post destro vilified all conservatives in his first post. At least read fully the post your quoting before you spout off stuff on it. You go from saying how liberal areas apparently provide for the conservative areas after I disprove the propaganda that you were fed and then try to be smug and condescending to me for doing the same? Then you talk about a distopian state where people need to defend themselves from what? the very things that happened today in a small town in america? Do you really not put your thoughts together before putting them down on a screen?
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There's always a small group of people who try to turn this into a political right vs left stalemate. Its probably best to just ignore them. Nagano, I'm unable to view the source due to some error in Adobe. Is it available in any other format?
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On December 15 2012 14:13 sCCrooked wrote:
There's always a small group of people who try to turn this into a political right vs left stalemate. Its probably best to just ignore them. Nagano, I'm unable to view the source due to some error in Adobe. Is it available in any other format?
Sorry it's only .pdf available. But it's seriously worth checking into when you can. It's literally a list of all the myths followed by a debunk with all complete primary sources.
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On December 15 2012 13:48 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:40 Destro wrote:
I don`t think anyone is saying making guns illegal would make a gun free utopia. but its a step in the right direction.
Frankily, i dont think its a legality issue at all. its a society. american society needs to grow up and move past the gun owneship bullshit. the rest of the western world has, and the rest of the western world is a better place. America is now defined by 2 different countries that don't really work well together. It has a bunch of folks living in the city that votes liberal is scared of their fellow citizens and has to lock their doors and their cars. It also has a bunch of folks living out in the country that votes conservative doesn't have to be afraid of their citizens and doesn't have to lock their doors and their cars.
Stated by you. My position hasnt wavered at all. I acknowledged the deep and confusing hole the US is in when it comes to firearms, and stated that I believe there needs to be no access to semi-automatic rifles that can kill many people in a short period of time. Weapons should be restricted to ones designed for hunting and for defense (even though I do not believe people should be allowed to own firearms for defense either, I would concede this for real change with restrictions on more deadly firearms).
I was simply pointing out that your snide remark was pointless.
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On December 15 2012 14:16 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:13 sCCrooked wrote:
There's always a small group of people who try to turn this into a political right vs left stalemate. Its probably best to just ignore them. Nagano, I'm unable to view the source due to some error in Adobe. Is it available in any other format? Sorry it's only .pdf available. But it's seriously worth checking into when you can. It's literally a list of all the myths followed by a debunk with all complete primary sources.
I'm sure it would be very useful since literally all the stuff being thrown out there are the same lies attempting to goad sheeple into begging the government to take more freedoms in the name of "safety". I'd like to just refer them all to 1 source to counter it all.
Guess i'll try re-installing Adobe and see if it fixes xD
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There needs to be stricter gun control laws......... for the mentally ill people who are on drugs such as anti-depressants and other such things.
The odds of something like today happening if you are a mentally sane person and you aren't all drugged up are slim to none.
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On December 15 2012 14:21 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:16 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 14:13 sCCrooked wrote:
There's always a small group of people who try to turn this into a political right vs left stalemate. Its probably best to just ignore them. Nagano, I'm unable to view the source due to some error in Adobe. Is it available in any other format? Sorry it's only .pdf available. But it's seriously worth checking into when you can. It's literally a list of all the myths followed by a debunk with all complete primary sources. I'm sure it would be very useful since literally all the stuff being thrown out there are the same lies attempting to goad sheeple into begging the government to take more freedoms in the name of "safety". I'd like to just refer them all to 1 source to counter it all. Guess i'll try re-installing Adobe and see if it fixes xD
I would definitely keep it near you, the anti-gun misinformation is going to be strong in the coming days/weeks 
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Blaming guns for murdering people is like blaming spoons for obesity. The root of the problem is not the guns, guns don't pick themselves up and murder people. The root of the problem is the drugs, I hear a lot of these arguments that gun control or bans "work" in other countries but other countries aren't like the US. The US is the most drugged up country in the world, I heard a statistic something like over %65 of the world's drugs are used in the US.
"Americans consume EIGHTY percent of the world's pain pills as prescription drug abuse epidemic explodes"
Americans consume 80 percent of the world's supply of painkillers -- more than 110 tons of pure, addictive opiates every year -- as the country's prescription drug abuse epidemic explodes.
That's enough drugs to give every single American 64 Percocets or Vicodin. And pain pill prescriptions continue to surge, up 600 percent in ten year, thanks to doctors who are more and more willing to hand out drugs to patients who are suffering.
As more people get their hands on these potentially-dangerous drugs, more are taking them to get high. Their drug abuse leads to 14,800 deaths a year -- more than from heroin and cocaine combined.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2142481/Americans-consume-80-percent-worlds-pain-pills-prescription-drug-abuse-epidemic-explodes.html
Clearly US has much more of a drug problem than a gun problem. Handle the drug problem and the gun problem will reduce significantly.
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Banning and limiting guns is the last thing we want to do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
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On December 15 2012 14:31 delarien123 wrote:
Banning and limiting guns is the last thing we want to do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
I really hope this is some reverse psychology shit. Every time I hear this, it makes me just a little more willing to give my handgun to the cops if it means people who say this and mean it end up getting safely institutionalized or arrested for attempting to defy a gun ban.
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On December 15 2012 14:33 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:31 delarien123 wrote:
Banning and limiting guns is the last thing we want to do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat. I really hope this is some reverse psychology shit. Every time I hear this, it makes me just a little more willing to give my handgun to the cops if it means people who say this and mean it end up getting safely institutionalized or arrested for attempting to defy a gun ban.
You may want to look beyond the borders of the USA then. Mexico and many other countries have complete gun bans and they are all completely run by unbelievably corrupt semi-dictatorships and drug cartels as a result. There's multiple countries spanning several decades of proof showing that when you take all weaponry from the public, cartels and money-driven governments will use you even more than we already are being exploited.
If literally hundreds of millions of living examples of how gun control utterly fails won't convince you, then I shall introduce you to the people who think the earth is flat and that the holocaust/moon landing were hoaxes.
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On December 15 2012 14:36 sCCrooked wrote:
If literally hundreds of millions of living examples of how gun control utterly fails won't convince you, then I shall introduce you to the people who think the earth is flat and that the holocaust/moon landing were hoaxes.
Wait, what?
So gun control doesn't work? Let's check the facts.
The fact is, the United States has the highest murder rate of any first world country (higher than many third world countries too), and the highest gun related deaths of any first world country (again, higher than many third world countries too). Check the charts.
So when you combine these statistics:
Gun related Deaths by Country (per 100,000 population)
Japan 0.07
England 0.22
Ukraine 0.35
Spain 0.63
Germany 1.10
Israel 1.86
United States 9.00
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
With these:
UNODC murder rates most recent year:
Japan 0.3
Germany 0.8
China 1.0
United Kingdom 1.2
Greece 1.5
Iraq 2.0
Palestine 4.1
United States 4.2
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
You begin to see the issue.
There is no reason for a first world country to have third world murder rates, and access to guns plays a gigantic role in that. Our homicide rate should not be more than Palestine and double what Iraq has...
I'm not saying we should ban all guns, just saying that the United States is clearly doing a lot wrong with gun control, and the fact is, there are plenty of legal weapons to purchase a gun without any kind of background check, and that is wrong. The United States need some kind of real gun control, like every other first world country...
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On December 15 2012 14:36 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:33 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 14:31 delarien123 wrote:
Banning and limiting guns is the last thing we want to do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat. I really hope this is some reverse psychology shit. Every time I hear this, it makes me just a little more willing to give my handgun to the cops if it means people who say this and mean it end up getting safely institutionalized or arrested for attempting to defy a gun ban. You may want to look beyond the borders of the USA then. Mexico and many other countries have complete gun bans and they are all completely run by unbelievably corrupt semi-dictatorships and drug cartels as a result. There's multiple countries spanning several decades of proof showing that when you take all weaponry from the public, cartels and money-driven governments will use you even more than we already are being exploited. If literally hundreds of millions of living examples of how gun control utterly fails won't convince you, then I shall introduce you to the people who think the earth is flat and that the holocaust/moon landing were hoaxes.
Yes, if the evil gub'mint went all corrupt and decided to be tyrannical dictators, my 9mm and a couple boxes of ammo would STOP THOSE EVIL BASTARDS IN THEIR TRACKS!
Want to buy a fucking bridge?
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On December 15 2012 14:38 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:36 sCCrooked wrote:
If literally hundreds of millions of living examples of how gun control utterly fails won't convince you, then I shall introduce you to the people who think the earth is flat and that the holocaust/moon landing were hoaxes. Wait, what? So gun control doesn't work? Let's check the facts. The fact is, the United States has the highest murder rate of any first world country (higher than many third world countries too), and the highest gun related deaths of any first world country (again, higher than many third world countries too). Check the charts. So when you combine these statistics: Gun related Deaths by Country (per 100,000 population) Japan 0.07 England 0.22 Ukraine 0.35 Spain 0.63 Germany 1.10 Israel 1.86 United States 9.00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rateWith these: UNODC murder rates most recent year: Japan 0.3 Germany 0.8 China 1.0 United Kingdom 1.2 Greece 1.5 Iraq 2.0 Palestine 4.1 United States 4.2Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rateYou begin to see the issue. There is no reason for a first world country to have third world murder rates, and access to guns plays a gigantic role in that. Our homicide rate should not be more than Palestine and double what Iraq has... I'm not saying we should ban all guns, just saying that the United States is clearly doing a lot wrong with gun control, and the fact is, there are plenty of legal weapons to purchase a gun without any kind of background check, and that is wrong.
Wow you're gosu. Using lolwikipedia as a source isn't a good idea if you want people to take you seriously.
Since you apparently haven't read even the rest of this page, allow me to link something already just above your post that's basically a reciprocate of your citation.
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1/gun_facts_6_1_screen.pdf
Yes, if the evil gub'mint went all corrupt and decided to be tyrannical dictators, my 9mm and a couple boxes of ammo would STOP THOSE EVIL BASTARDS IN THEIR TRACKS!
Want to buy a fucking bridge?
You're obviously too emotional or biased to have a discussion. Empty responses won't make your point heard. Perhaps you should go educate yourself a LOT better before attacking others who actually do research this.
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On December 15 2012 14:38 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:36 sCCrooked wrote:
If literally hundreds of millions of living examples of how gun control utterly fails won't convince you, then I shall introduce you to the people who think the earth is flat and that the holocaust/moon landing were hoaxes. There is no reason for a first world country to have third world murder rates, and access to guns plays a gigantic role in that. Our homicide rate should not be more than Palestine and double what Iraq has... I'm not intentionally misusing statistics, I am reporting them.
Nevermind! The guy above was very eager to use this "weapon"
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On December 15 2012 14:38 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:36 sCCrooked wrote:
If literally hundreds of millions of living examples of how gun control utterly fails won't convince you, then I shall introduce you to the people who think the earth is flat and that the holocaust/moon landing were hoaxes. Wait, what? So gun control doesn't work? Let's check the facts. The fact is, the United States has the highest murder rate of any first world country (higher than many third world countries too), and the highest gun related deaths of any first world country (again, higher than many third world countries too). Check the charts. So when you combine these statistics: Gun related Deaths by Country (per 100,000 population) Japan 0.07 England 0.22 Ukraine 0.35 Spain 0.63 Germany 1.10 Israel 1.86 United States 9.00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rateWith these: UNODC murder rates most recent year: Japan 0.3 Germany 0.8 China 1.0 United Kingdom 1.2 Greece 1.5 Iraq 2.0 Palestine 4.1 United States 4.2Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rateYou begin to see the issue. There is no reason for a first world country to have third world murder rates, and access to guns plays a gigantic role in that. Our homicide rate should not be more than Palestine and double what Iraq has... I'm not saying we should ban all guns, just saying that the United States is clearly doing a lot wrong with gun control, and the fact is, there are plenty of legal weapons to purchase a gun without any kind of background check, and that is wrong.
Confirm for us how many of these gun related or just homicides in general are caused by legal citizens vs illegal immigrants from Mexico and other South American countries. Do you realize how bad gang violence is here in the US? Thousands of the most dispicable gangs cross the border illegally into the US. Also it's competely stupid to use ONLY those statistics and think your argument is won. As I posted above, drugs are a major factor in the violence here in the US.
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EPT
