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+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:43 jester- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:34 Zarathusta wrote:
I am personally sick of this culture where some people believe they are entitled to free stuff. TL is not your guest, TL is not an encyclopedia you own on your bookshelf, TL is not your personal Apple question answering machine. I see tons of people complaining about the quality of free streams, which may run one add every 30 mins. I see people complain about streamers running adds inbetween games. According to our opening poll, people go out and download a free program so that they aren't annoyed by the adds that show up on the free websites they visit. Lets not start on illegal downloading, but right or wrong it buys completely into this mindset.
Working at a popular fast food restaurant, I get at least one person a week asking for a "free" water only (no purchase) in the drive-thru. Not to mention all the promotions that are run give away something for free whether its buy-one get-one or get a free something with purchase because that is the best way to entice people nowadays.
You don't have a right to free stuff; if a company puts a price on a product, you only have two options: pay that price, or don't use that product. This is how our society runs, if you adblock TL, not only do you hate E-Sports (and Elly, how could you hate her????) but you also hate capitalism (and if your American, you also hate America). Again making assumptions and passing down judgements with no basis to. Is TL designed to be a FREE service? Yes. Could TL make you pay to view the service if they were so inclined? Yes. Do they? No. What price are you asking people to pay? You're asking them to view ads they DON'T want to see and you don't seem to understand that there are people paying for those advertisements. I know, I know.. Some ads are designed to have their impact not by clicks with the intent to sell items, but to leave an impression in your mind about the product, so when you are shopping, you are more inclined to buy the product; but still, it doesn't mean in any way shape or form that disabling adblock means that you are automatically: 1. You hate capitalism (rofl seriously?) 2. You hate America (...............................................) 3. You're a piece of shit. 4. You're pathetic 5. You're selfish 6. You believe you're entitled to free stuff 7. You are killing esports 8. You hate teamliquid.net 9. You are not a good person 10. You would let someone getting mugged get mugged 11. You don't hold doors open for people This is but a small list of insults tossed around by people in the last few pages. ...Really now?
^ Pretty much this.
It's like that American Cancer Society donation box sitting at every counter at every McDonalds across the damn country. With every meal priced at like, xx.99, you'd expect that shit to be full of pennies, but noooooo. Should we have a sign above it saying "if you don't donate that f*ckin penny you're gonna throw away later anyway:"
1. You hate capitalism (rofl seriously?)
2. You hate America (...............................................)
3. You're a piece of shit.
4. You're pathetic
5. You're selfish
6. You believe you're entitled to free stuff
7. You are killing esports cancer research
8. You hate teamliquid.net cancer patients
9. You are not a good person
10. You would let someone getting mugged get mugged
11. You don't hold doors open for people
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United States5162 Posts
On November 05 2011 05:52 Xpace wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:43 jester- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:34 Zarathusta wrote:
I am personally sick of this culture where some people believe they are entitled to free stuff. TL is not your guest, TL is not an encyclopedia you own on your bookshelf, TL is not your personal Apple question answering machine. I see tons of people complaining about the quality of free streams, which may run one add every 30 mins. I see people complain about streamers running adds inbetween games. According to our opening poll, people go out and download a free program so that they aren't annoyed by the adds that show up on the free websites they visit. Lets not start on illegal downloading, but right or wrong it buys completely into this mindset.
Working at a popular fast food restaurant, I get at least one person a week asking for a "free" water only (no purchase) in the drive-thru. Not to mention all the promotions that are run give away something for free whether its buy-one get-one or get a free something with purchase because that is the best way to entice people nowadays.
You don't have a right to free stuff; if a company puts a price on a product, you only have two options: pay that price, or don't use that product. This is how our society runs, if you adblock TL, not only do you hate E-Sports (and Elly, how could you hate her????) but you also hate capitalism (and if your American, you also hate America). Again making assumptions and passing down judgements with no basis to. Is TL designed to be a FREE service? Yes. Could TL make you pay to view the service if they were so inclined? Yes. Do they? No. What price are you asking people to pay? You're asking them to view ads they DON'T want to see and you don't seem to understand that there are people paying for those advertisements. I know, I know.. Some ads are designed to have their impact not by clicks with the intent to sell items, but to leave an impression in your mind about the product, so when you are shopping, you are more inclined to buy the product; but still, it doesn't mean in any way shape or form that disabling adblock means that you are automatically: 1. You hate capitalism (rofl seriously?) 2. You hate America (...............................................) 3. You're a piece of shit. 4. You're pathetic 5. You're selfish 6. You believe you're entitled to free stuff 7. You are killing esports 8. You hate teamliquid.net 9. You are not a good person 10. You would let someone getting mugged get mugged 11. You don't hold doors open for people This is but a small list of insults tossed around by people in the last few pages. ...Really now? ^ Pretty much this. It's like that American Cancer Society donation box sitting at every counter at every McDonalds across the damn country. With every meal priced at like, xx.99, you'd expect that shit to be full of pennies, but noooooo. Should we have a sign above it saying "if you don't donate that f*ckin penny you're gonna throw away later anyway:" 1. You hate capitalism (rofl seriously?) 2. You hate America (...............................................) 3. You're a piece of shit. 4. You're pathetic 5. You're selfish 6. You believe you're entitled to free stuff 7. You are killing esports cancer research 8. You hate teamliquid.net cancer patients 9. You are not a good person 10. You would let someone getting mugged get mugged 11. You don't hold doors open for people
There's a big difference between a donation and an internet ad. An ad on TL isn't asking for your charity, they make money on you simply seeing it. Most of that list is bullshit, but the least you can admit is that it's selfish. You're putting your own preference first and denying TL revenue in the process.
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I'd love to just unblock the ads at the top but remain blocking all other stuff like when I'm watching streams x_x some people like Idra commercial every game, so I'd deactivate every 2 games so he still gets a reasonable amount too 
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On November 04 2011 02:37 Sufficiency wrote:
EDIT: let me expand my point, because many people do not seem to understand what I am trying to say.
TL is asking its visitors to do TL a favour - the favour being to disable adblock, which in turn will provide TL with more revenue via advertisement. This is comparable, in my opinion, to someone on the street to ask you to donate to a charity for the sake of combating AIDS in Africa. When you donate your money to the charity, you expect the charity to actually does what it tells you it does - improving lives in Africa. You also expect the charity operation to be transparent in its financial record so the money you donated goes to some poor kids in Africa instead of feeding of the greed of certain individuals.
It is not clear what TL is doing with the extra income it is receiving through its recent, aggressive advertisement campaigns. Since the launch of SC2, TL's volume of visitors has been greatly increasing - giving it greater potential to generate more income. On the surface, TL is claiming that TL's revenue is used to support esports; however how much of it actually goes into esports is to be debated - because frankly, none of us really know. For heaven's sake, all of the extra money could be going into Nagzul's pocket, and we don't know that. Given the volume of visitors for TL, this is potentially a lot of money we are talking about here.
Don't get me wrong, I am not heartless. If the banner said claims that TL cannot continue to sustain itself if adblockers continue to be used, then I will disable it immediately. This is not what the banner is saying. The banner claims that the money is going to be used for a greater purpose (i.e. esports), but there is no way for the community to validate this claim because we don't know TL's revenues nor how much it actually invests in esports.
Killing esports is just a phrase, I don't believe that disabling adblock is stopping them from supporting esports, BUT it may damage their team money, and therefore they can't send their players everywhere, which is sorta ruining esports, as TL is... With Dignitas, CoL (with koreans and nani), mouz, and EG, one of the best teams in the non-korean world.
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Don't the ads only make money of you click on it?
If thats true isn't never clicking on an ad the same thing as blocking them?
Just wondering.
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On November 05 2011 05:59 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
Don't the ads only make money of you click on it?
If thats true isn't never clicking on an ad the same thing as blocking them?
Just wondering.
Every ad package is different. There is cents per impression, cents per click, and many other metrics used by advertising sites.
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On November 05 2011 05:59 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
Don't the ads only make money of you click on it?
If thats true isn't never clicking on an ad the same thing as blocking them?
Just wondering.
No, Hot_Bid, I think?, stated that the ads are pay per view, you do not have to click them to generate money from TL. If you click it's probably going to earn them more though..
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On November 05 2011 05:55 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 05:52 Xpace wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:43 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 05:34 Zarathusta wrote:
I am personally sick of this culture where some people believe they are entitled to free stuff. TL is not your guest, TL is not an encyclopedia you own on your bookshelf, TL is not your personal Apple question answering machine. I see tons of people complaining about the quality of free streams, which may run one add every 30 mins. I see people complain about streamers running adds inbetween games. According to our opening poll, people go out and download a free program so that they aren't annoyed by the adds that show up on the free websites they visit. Lets not start on illegal downloading, but right or wrong it buys completely into this mindset.
Working at a popular fast food restaurant, I get at least one person a week asking for a "free" water only (no purchase) in the drive-thru. Not to mention all the promotions that are run give away something for free whether its buy-one get-one or get a free something with purchase because that is the best way to entice people nowadays.
You don't have a right to free stuff; if a company puts a price on a product, you only have two options: pay that price, or don't use that product. This is how our society runs, if you adblock TL, not only do you hate E-Sports (and Elly, how could you hate her????) but you also hate capitalism (and if your American, you also hate America). Again making assumptions and passing down judgements with no basis to. Is TL designed to be a FREE service? Yes. Could TL make you pay to view the service if they were so inclined? Yes. Do they? No. What price are you asking people to pay? You're asking them to view ads they DON'T want to see and you don't seem to understand that there are people paying for those advertisements. I know, I know.. Some ads are designed to have their impact not by clicks with the intent to sell items, but to leave an impression in your mind about the product, so when you are shopping, you are more inclined to buy the product; but still, it doesn't mean in any way shape or form that disabling adblock means that you are automatically: 1. You hate capitalism (rofl seriously?) 2. You hate America (...............................................) 3. You're a piece of shit. 4. You're pathetic 5. You're selfish 6. You believe you're entitled to free stuff 7. You are killing esports 8. You hate teamliquid.net 9. You are not a good person 10. You would let someone getting mugged get mugged 11. You don't hold doors open for people This is but a small list of insults tossed around by people in the last few pages. ...Really now? ^ Pretty much this. It's like that American Cancer Society donation box sitting at every counter at every McDonalds across the damn country. With every meal priced at like, xx.99, you'd expect that shit to be full of pennies, but noooooo. Should we have a sign above it saying "if you don't donate that f*ckin penny you're gonna throw away later anyway:" 1. You hate capitalism (rofl seriously?) 2. You hate America (...............................................) 3. You're a piece of shit. 4. You're pathetic 5. You're selfish 6. You believe you're entitled to free stuff 7. You are killing esports cancer research 8. You hate teamliquid.net cancer patients 9. You are not a good person 10. You would let someone getting mugged get mugged 11. You don't hold doors open for people There's a big difference between a donation and an internet ad. An ad on TL isn't asking for your charity, they make money on you simply seeing it. Most of that list is bullshit, but the least you can admit is that it's selfish. You're putting your own preference first and denying TL revenue in the process.
Is the difference so big that one warrants no judgement while the other results in unnecessary yet ridiculously insulting comments? Oh, just to clarify:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:34 Xpace wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:30 Grend wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 05:23 Dental Floss wrote:On November 05 2011 05:17 tree.hugger wrote:On November 05 2011 05:08 mmp wrote:On November 05 2011 05:05 tree.hugger wrote:On November 05 2011 05:01 mmp wrote:On November 04 2011 17:30 Manifesto7 wrote:
The people that come to my house don't hang towels over the paintings they deem "not a celebration of the intelligence of man". On November 04 2011 21:12 tree.hugger wrote:
Nobody is being banned because they adblock TL. If you want to adblock TL, that's your prerogative. But then to come into this thread, and justify it with a reason like "I'm against advertising on principle" or "I'm taking a bold stand for my privacy against an Orwellian advertising complex" is simply insulting. Honestly, it calls into question whether you've ever taken public transportation, bought their own food, or even left their room. It's like going to a dinner party and refusing to help wash the dishes, because they'll just get dirty again anyway.
You guys are speaking indignantly even though your 'house invitation' model is severely flawed. (1) I have a house too. It's called my computer. Your HTML is a guest in my house. If I ask you to wipe your feed at the door... well, you don't have a choice, I'll do it for you. (2) If you invite someone over to your house and they tell you that the art you display is offensive, or the food you serve will make them sick... your response should not be 'GTFO ungrateful moochers' unless you're a bad host. You accommodate reasonable requests, or you don't invite people over. Incredible, I never saw it that way. How benevolent of you to invite TeamLiquid into your gracious home. Can I start a collection? I don't see why you're being so rude about this. It's not unreasonable to assert that users have the final say over their own computer's behavior. There are many businesses that aggressively take away user control of their computers, so this is not a minor point to push aside. You should acknowledge that the user has a right to be concerned about their privacy and security. I'm not saying you don't have a right to what you do on your computer. I'm saying that your analogy is patently ridiculous. And I just have to laugh at the idea that TeamLiquid somehow wants to take over your computer. I guess I have some more perspective on that, but it's really a notion I can't take seriously. Its not TL thats trying to take over your computer; its advertisers. A notorious exploit happened recently where having Flash installed allowed ads served by google ads (which TL uses) to run arbitrary and malicious code. Adobe was unable to patch the vulnerability for an entire week. I work in IT and had to deal with the fallout from that one personally. I think everyone should get behind a no-ads account upgrade on TL that people can buy. That would solve a huge part of this argument. Hear hear! Pretty sure what I`m willing to pay exceeds the ad revenue for me surfing TL anyways. I have no problem supporting TL. I`ve bought SC2 through the site (I think at least) I also have bought 2 t-shirts. I just do not like ads and would rather pay than watch them. Sorry. This exactly. I pre-ordered Diablo 3 on Amazon via Team Liquid just recently because it would 'help' the site. I could have pre-ordered it locally since I'm not sure when I'll receive the shipment on release day (or if I'm even going to get it on that day). Same for Heart of the Swarm. How many of you who don't have ads blocked did the same thing? :\
To add on another note, hypothetically if I'm willing to pay, say, USD$5 a month for access to ad-free Team Liquid, does that mean I support this website, as well as eSPORTs, MORE than someone who doesn't? Hypothetically.
Is my $5 worth more than, say, someone who sticks to the (hypothetical) free version with ads who also happens to frequently run local LAN tournaments in his/her town and organizes Barcraft to promote Starcraft 2 as a whole?
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On November 04 2011 21:25 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 18:32 SpoR wrote:
I like the elephant picture so I'm not going to block it. I liked the horse picture too Are you kidding me CM? isnt that like the least you could do for TL?
Gotta support the artist. I don't think my unblocking the ads is really all that big of a deal, TL has sponsors and shit now and it was already well off as it was to begin with. I never click the ads either.
But fine, I'll unblock it for you.
edit- lol the op description didn't even work.
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United States5162 Posts
On November 05 2011 06:03 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 05:55 Myles wrote:On November 05 2011 05:52 Xpace wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:43 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 05:34 Zarathusta wrote:
I am personally sick of this culture where some people believe they are entitled to free stuff. TL is not your guest, TL is not an encyclopedia you own on your bookshelf, TL is not your personal Apple question answering machine. I see tons of people complaining about the quality of free streams, which may run one add every 30 mins. I see people complain about streamers running adds inbetween games. According to our opening poll, people go out and download a free program so that they aren't annoyed by the adds that show up on the free websites they visit. Lets not start on illegal downloading, but right or wrong it buys completely into this mindset.
Working at a popular fast food restaurant, I get at least one person a week asking for a "free" water only (no purchase) in the drive-thru. Not to mention all the promotions that are run give away something for free whether its buy-one get-one or get a free something with purchase because that is the best way to entice people nowadays.
You don't have a right to free stuff; if a company puts a price on a product, you only have two options: pay that price, or don't use that product. This is how our society runs, if you adblock TL, not only do you hate E-Sports (and Elly, how could you hate her????) but you also hate capitalism (and if your American, you also hate America). Again making assumptions and passing down judgements with no basis to. Is TL designed to be a FREE service? Yes. Could TL make you pay to view the service if they were so inclined? Yes. Do they? No. What price are you asking people to pay? You're asking them to view ads they DON'T want to see and you don't seem to understand that there are people paying for those advertisements. I know, I know.. Some ads are designed to have their impact not by clicks with the intent to sell items, but to leave an impression in your mind about the product, so when you are shopping, you are more inclined to buy the product; but still, it doesn't mean in any way shape or form that disabling adblock means that you are automatically: 1. You hate capitalism (rofl seriously?) 2. You hate America (...............................................) 3. You're a piece of shit. 4. You're pathetic 5. You're selfish 6. You believe you're entitled to free stuff 7. You are killing esports 8. You hate teamliquid.net 9. You are not a good person 10. You would let someone getting mugged get mugged 11. You don't hold doors open for people This is but a small list of insults tossed around by people in the last few pages. ...Really now? ^ Pretty much this. It's like that American Cancer Society donation box sitting at every counter at every McDonalds across the damn country. With every meal priced at like, xx.99, you'd expect that shit to be full of pennies, but noooooo. Should we have a sign above it saying "if you don't donate that f*ckin penny you're gonna throw away later anyway:" 1. You hate capitalism (rofl seriously?) 2. You hate America (...............................................) 3. You're a piece of shit. 4. You're pathetic 5. You're selfish 6. You believe you're entitled to free stuff 7. You are killing esports cancer research 8. You hate teamliquid.net cancer patients 9. You are not a good person 10. You would let someone getting mugged get mugged 11. You don't hold doors open for people There's a big difference between a donation and an internet ad. An ad on TL isn't asking for your charity, they make money on you simply seeing it. Most of that list is bullshit, but the least you can admit is that it's selfish. You're putting your own preference first and denying TL revenue in the process. Is the difference so big that one warrants no judgement while the other results in unnecessary yet ridiculously insulting comments? Oh, just to clarify: + Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:34 Xpace wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2011 05:30 Grend wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 05:23 Dental Floss wrote:On November 05 2011 05:17 tree.hugger wrote:On November 05 2011 05:08 mmp wrote:On November 05 2011 05:05 tree.hugger wrote:On November 05 2011 05:01 mmp wrote:On November 04 2011 17:30 Manifesto7 wrote:
The people that come to my house don't hang towels over the paintings they deem "not a celebration of the intelligence of man". On November 04 2011 21:12 tree.hugger wrote:
Nobody is being banned because they adblock TL. If you want to adblock TL, that's your prerogative. But then to come into this thread, and justify it with a reason like "I'm against advertising on principle" or "I'm taking a bold stand for my privacy against an Orwellian advertising complex" is simply insulting. Honestly, it calls into question whether you've ever taken public transportation, bought their own food, or even left their room. It's like going to a dinner party and refusing to help wash the dishes, because they'll just get dirty again anyway.
You guys are speaking indignantly even though your 'house invitation' model is severely flawed. (1) I have a house too. It's called my computer. Your HTML is a guest in my house. If I ask you to wipe your feed at the door... well, you don't have a choice, I'll do it for you. (2) If you invite someone over to your house and they tell you that the art you display is offensive, or the food you serve will make them sick... your response should not be 'GTFO ungrateful moochers' unless you're a bad host. You accommodate reasonable requests, or you don't invite people over. Incredible, I never saw it that way. How benevolent of you to invite TeamLiquid into your gracious home. Can I start a collection? I don't see why you're being so rude about this. It's not unreasonable to assert that users have the final say over their own computer's behavior. There are many businesses that aggressively take away user control of their computers, so this is not a minor point to push aside. You should acknowledge that the user has a right to be concerned about their privacy and security. I'm not saying you don't have a right to what you do on your computer. I'm saying that your analogy is patently ridiculous. And I just have to laugh at the idea that TeamLiquid somehow wants to take over your computer. I guess I have some more perspective on that, but it's really a notion I can't take seriously. Its not TL thats trying to take over your computer; its advertisers. A notorious exploit happened recently where having Flash installed allowed ads served by google ads (which TL uses) to run arbitrary and malicious code. Adobe was unable to patch the vulnerability for an entire week. I work in IT and had to deal with the fallout from that one personally. I think everyone should get behind a no-ads account upgrade on TL that people can buy. That would solve a huge part of this argument. Hear hear! Pretty sure what I`m willing to pay exceeds the ad revenue for me surfing TL anyways. I have no problem supporting TL. I`ve bought SC2 through the site (I think at least) I also have bought 2 t-shirts. I just do not like ads and would rather pay than watch them. Sorry. This exactly. I pre-ordered Diablo 3 on Amazon via Team Liquid just recently because it would 'help' the site. I could have pre-ordered it locally since I'm not sure when I'll receive the shipment on release day (or if I'm even going to get it on that day). Same for Heart of the Swarm. How many of you who don't have ads blocked did the same thing? :\ If I'm willing to pay (just an example), say, USD$5 a month for access to Team Liquid, does that mean I support this website, as well as eSPORTs, more than someone who doesn't? Just hypothetically.
Hypothetically, sure. But I feel the issue is people who choose not to support at all. I think if you're going to have adblock due to personal convictions I think you should definitely support TL in other ways - such as you have done.
And the reason I feel this is much different then charity is that charity, by definition, is at your own discretion. While I am behind a pay feature that disables ads, I do feel that if you're going to enjoy what TL offers currently you should not deny them revenue that they would otherwise enjoy if you browsed 'normally' .
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On November 04 2011 17:11 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 17:00 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 04 2011 16:58 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 16:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On November 04 2011 16:25 Macpo wrote:I do block ads on teamliquid. It's a matter of principle, against advertisment in general. Why? 2 reasons. 1. it is a a very unproductive activity for society, in which yet a lot of money, time, and energy is thrown (away). How many people work to make ads? and for what purpose? Wouldn't all this be better used somewhere else? 2. the content of ads is generally not a celebration of the intelligence of man. Quite the contrary. I am definitely willing subscribe to teamliquid, like paying a monthly fee; sure they deserve it. I do that for other websites, like news sites. I suggest that TL organizes this (if you are a subscriber, we suppress ads for you). But no ads sorry  It's depressing to read the shit people come up with to justify blocking ads. No need to be so rude when people don't agree with you (Man, you are an admin! at least, please respect the rules you ask others to respect, even if you disagree with posted content). It isn't against the rules to call something shit, when it is indeed shit. Well I won't come down to such a level of discussion, but I have to say it makes me a bit wondering about TL to know that mods are actually acting like this. Having said that, I don't see why making a subscription fee wouldn't be a respectable option to consider; I have seen many websites proposing this "ads vs fee" exchange, and it seemed to work for them. You should even make more money, which seems to be your goal here; as this fee would be nothing but an extra option.
So you would rather have a good portion of the people on the site leave because of a subscription based system, verses watching an add.. And what do you mean respect the rules, people are making up bull shit reasons for using add block, and he was called out. Some of the people have somewhat legitimate reasons, but not that guy lol.
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Canada5155 Posts
Never have I seen people take a cute banner and the phrase "hurting ESPORTS" so seriously.
Just consider helping out your favorite website by letting your eyes see a few ads. If you so please.
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Anyway, is that elephant wearing a yarmulka? Am I to believe this is some kind of Jewish elephant? God's chosen people are not elephants >: ( ??
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Should have stuck with a plea from tl.net. xD I understand why people block and do not block. No need to attack anyone based on that. I imagine some people became a bit agitated about it without context. It can look a bit like begging.
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On November 05 2011 05:10 Mogget wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 04:41 jester- wrote:On November 05 2011 04:31 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:21 gds wrote:On November 05 2011 04:03 visual77 wrote:
I don't think it is so much that people who view ads see themselves as above those who don't. At least for myself, it is a disgust with the type of posters who say things to the effect of "I have it turned off and I'm happily denying TL any ad revenue." Note that I'm not saying you said that, or anything to that effect, but that vibe has been put out by a number of people in this thread.
And what about the vibe that all adblockers are huge piece of shit in this thread? We think they are because they, because they are denying money to a fantastic organisation because they don't want a tiny banner here or there? or cant watch 5 seconds of adverts every now and then in exchange for otherwise COMPLETELY FREE CONTENT. Its not elitism, we're not bigging ourselves up, we're calling you out for what you are. How can anyone disagree with this logic... Calling people pieces of shit because they don't want to view commercial advertisements? Have you ever heard of freedom of choice? Using your logic, I'd say that you're worse because you criticize people for exercising their freedom on the internet by not viewing ads and you are actively participating in open discrimination with hateful intent. I can't go into your "comment" any further without getting disrespectful. Are you for real? "Freedom of choice?" Im not saying your NOT ALLOWED to do it, im saying, if you do it, your a selfish person and as such should expect to be judged by others. Or do you think that we shouldn't be allowed to cast moral judgments? Like i dont understand how you can think its not selfish, its denying an organisation that gladly gives you content for free, GOOD content, just becuase you dont fancy watchign an advert, its pathetic, its selfish, and you should be ashamed. At the very least, you should be able to accept that people are going to look down on you. I dont HAVE to give my seat to the elderly, i dont HAVE to help someone who's getting mugged, I dont HAVE to be faithful to my girlfriend, but if i think i can not do those things and not be looked down on for it, i must be some special kind of moron.
If you're going to be virtuous and high-in-morale in this subject, then "Selfishness" is probably the worst excuse for it. It's inert selfishness and greed for TL to discourage people from using ad-block for their own sake of revenue. If anyone is selfish first it's TL. Im not even saying being selfish in this sense is a bad thing, but you can't hold people to value's for a specific entity when that entity doesn't abide those same values.
And that's a lesson in life, my friend. I'm very smart.
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United States5162 Posts
On November 05 2011 06:30 Alchemind wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 05:10 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:41 jester- wrote:On November 05 2011 04:31 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:21 gds wrote:On November 05 2011 04:03 visual77 wrote:
I don't think it is so much that people who view ads see themselves as above those who don't. At least for myself, it is a disgust with the type of posters who say things to the effect of "I have it turned off and I'm happily denying TL any ad revenue." Note that I'm not saying you said that, or anything to that effect, but that vibe has been put out by a number of people in this thread.
And what about the vibe that all adblockers are huge piece of shit in this thread? We think they are because they, because they are denying money to a fantastic organisation because they don't want a tiny banner here or there? or cant watch 5 seconds of adverts every now and then in exchange for otherwise COMPLETELY FREE CONTENT. Its not elitism, we're not bigging ourselves up, we're calling you out for what you are. How can anyone disagree with this logic... Calling people pieces of shit because they don't want to view commercial advertisements? Have you ever heard of freedom of choice? Using your logic, I'd say that you're worse because you criticize people for exercising their freedom on the internet by not viewing ads and you are actively participating in open discrimination with hateful intent. I can't go into your "comment" any further without getting disrespectful. Are you for real? "Freedom of choice?" Im not saying your NOT ALLOWED to do it, im saying, if you do it, your a selfish person and as such should expect to be judged by others. Or do you think that we shouldn't be allowed to cast moral judgments? Like i dont understand how you can think its not selfish, its denying an organisation that gladly gives you content for free, GOOD content, just becuase you dont fancy watchign an advert, its pathetic, its selfish, and you should be ashamed. At the very least, you should be able to accept that people are going to look down on you. I dont HAVE to give my seat to the elderly, i dont HAVE to help someone who's getting mugged, I dont HAVE to be faithful to my girlfriend, but if i think i can not do those things and not be looked down on for it, i must be some special kind of moron. If you're going to be virtuous and high-in-morale in this subject, then "Selfishness" is probably the worst excuse for it. It's inert selfishness and greed for TL to discourage people from using ad-block for their own sake of revenue. If anyone is selfish first it's TL. Im not even saying being selfish in this sense is a bad thing, but you can't hold people to value's for a specific entity when that entity doesn't abide those same values. And that's a lesson in life, my friend. I'm very smart.
TL provides you a product and get ad revenue in return. Since the ads are as non-intrusive as it gets, I call that mutually beneficial transaction. There's nothing selfish in that.
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On November 05 2011 06:32 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 06:30 Alchemind wrote:On November 05 2011 05:10 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:41 jester- wrote:On November 05 2011 04:31 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:21 gds wrote:On November 05 2011 04:03 visual77 wrote:
I don't think it is so much that people who view ads see themselves as above those who don't. At least for myself, it is a disgust with the type of posters who say things to the effect of "I have it turned off and I'm happily denying TL any ad revenue." Note that I'm not saying you said that, or anything to that effect, but that vibe has been put out by a number of people in this thread.
And what about the vibe that all adblockers are huge piece of shit in this thread? We think they are because they, because they are denying money to a fantastic organisation because they don't want a tiny banner here or there? or cant watch 5 seconds of adverts every now and then in exchange for otherwise COMPLETELY FREE CONTENT. Its not elitism, we're not bigging ourselves up, we're calling you out for what you are. How can anyone disagree with this logic... Calling people pieces of shit because they don't want to view commercial advertisements? Have you ever heard of freedom of choice? Using your logic, I'd say that you're worse because you criticize people for exercising their freedom on the internet by not viewing ads and you are actively participating in open discrimination with hateful intent. I can't go into your "comment" any further without getting disrespectful. Are you for real? "Freedom of choice?" Im not saying your NOT ALLOWED to do it, im saying, if you do it, your a selfish person and as such should expect to be judged by others. Or do you think that we shouldn't be allowed to cast moral judgments? Like i dont understand how you can think its not selfish, its denying an organisation that gladly gives you content for free, GOOD content, just becuase you dont fancy watchign an advert, its pathetic, its selfish, and you should be ashamed. At the very least, you should be able to accept that people are going to look down on you. I dont HAVE to give my seat to the elderly, i dont HAVE to help someone who's getting mugged, I dont HAVE to be faithful to my girlfriend, but if i think i can not do those things and not be looked down on for it, i must be some special kind of moron. If you're going to be virtuous and high-in-morale in this subject, then "Selfishness" is probably the worst excuse for it. It's inert selfishness and greed for TL to discourage people from using ad-block for their own sake of revenue. If anyone is selfish first it's TL. Im not even saying being selfish in this sense is a bad thing, but you can't hold people to value's for a specific entity when that entity doesn't abide those same values. And that's a lesson in life, my friend. I'm very smart. TL provides you a product and get ad revenue in return. Since the ads are as non-intrusive as it gets, I call that mutually beneficial transaction. There's nothing selfish in that.
Thats true to a point except that the "product" is a forum which is inherently a distributed effort among all the participants. The community generates the value using the *platform* of TL. Its not as if each thread and stream is created by a TL staff member. I think that a subscription or one-time flat fee for account creation is more appropriate for platform service over the ad model.
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No, TL is the only site that I have whitelisted
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United States5162 Posts
On November 05 2011 06:36 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 06:32 Myles wrote:On November 05 2011 06:30 Alchemind wrote:On November 05 2011 05:10 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:41 jester- wrote:On November 05 2011 04:31 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:21 gds wrote:On November 05 2011 04:03 visual77 wrote:
I don't think it is so much that people who view ads see themselves as above those who don't. At least for myself, it is a disgust with the type of posters who say things to the effect of "I have it turned off and I'm happily denying TL any ad revenue." Note that I'm not saying you said that, or anything to that effect, but that vibe has been put out by a number of people in this thread.
And what about the vibe that all adblockers are huge piece of shit in this thread? We think they are because they, because they are denying money to a fantastic organisation because they don't want a tiny banner here or there? or cant watch 5 seconds of adverts every now and then in exchange for otherwise COMPLETELY FREE CONTENT. Its not elitism, we're not bigging ourselves up, we're calling you out for what you are. How can anyone disagree with this logic... Calling people pieces of shit because they don't want to view commercial advertisements? Have you ever heard of freedom of choice? Using your logic, I'd say that you're worse because you criticize people for exercising their freedom on the internet by not viewing ads and you are actively participating in open discrimination with hateful intent. I can't go into your "comment" any further without getting disrespectful. Are you for real? "Freedom of choice?" Im not saying your NOT ALLOWED to do it, im saying, if you do it, your a selfish person and as such should expect to be judged by others. Or do you think that we shouldn't be allowed to cast moral judgments? Like i dont understand how you can think its not selfish, its denying an organisation that gladly gives you content for free, GOOD content, just becuase you dont fancy watchign an advert, its pathetic, its selfish, and you should be ashamed. At the very least, you should be able to accept that people are going to look down on you. I dont HAVE to give my seat to the elderly, i dont HAVE to help someone who's getting mugged, I dont HAVE to be faithful to my girlfriend, but if i think i can not do those things and not be looked down on for it, i must be some special kind of moron. If you're going to be virtuous and high-in-morale in this subject, then "Selfishness" is probably the worst excuse for it. It's inert selfishness and greed for TL to discourage people from using ad-block for their own sake of revenue. If anyone is selfish first it's TL. Im not even saying being selfish in this sense is a bad thing, but you can't hold people to value's for a specific entity when that entity doesn't abide those same values. And that's a lesson in life, my friend. I'm very smart. TL provides you a product and get ad revenue in return. Since the ads are as non-intrusive as it gets, I call that mutually beneficial transaction. There's nothing selfish in that. Thats true to a point except that the "product" is a forum which is inherently a distributed effort among all the participants. The community generates the value using the *platform* of TL. Its not as if each thread and stream is created by a TL staff member. I think that a subscription or one-time flat fee for account creation is more appropriate for platform service over the ad model.
The TL staff and the TL community are a symbiotic relationship. You can't have one without the other. And a direct cost to use TL seems far more intrusive imo. I think having an option is great, but a pay-for only service would kill TL.
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On November 05 2011 06:32 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 06:30 Alchemind wrote:On November 05 2011 05:10 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:41 jester- wrote:On November 05 2011 04:31 Mogget wrote:On November 05 2011 04:21 gds wrote:On November 05 2011 04:03 visual77 wrote:
I don't think it is so much that people who view ads see themselves as above those who don't. At least for myself, it is a disgust with the type of posters who say things to the effect of "I have it turned off and I'm happily denying TL any ad revenue." Note that I'm not saying you said that, or anything to that effect, but that vibe has been put out by a number of people in this thread.
And what about the vibe that all adblockers are huge piece of shit in this thread? We think they are because they, because they are denying money to a fantastic organisation because they don't want a tiny banner here or there? or cant watch 5 seconds of adverts every now and then in exchange for otherwise COMPLETELY FREE CONTENT. Its not elitism, we're not bigging ourselves up, we're calling you out for what you are. How can anyone disagree with this logic... Calling people pieces of shit because they don't want to view commercial advertisements? Have you ever heard of freedom of choice? Using your logic, I'd say that you're worse because you criticize people for exercising their freedom on the internet by not viewing ads and you are actively participating in open discrimination with hateful intent. I can't go into your "comment" any further without getting disrespectful. Are you for real? "Freedom of choice?" Im not saying your NOT ALLOWED to do it, im saying, if you do it, your a selfish person and as such should expect to be judged by others. Or do you think that we shouldn't be allowed to cast moral judgments? Like i dont understand how you can think its not selfish, its denying an organisation that gladly gives you content for free, GOOD content, just becuase you dont fancy watchign an advert, its pathetic, its selfish, and you should be ashamed. At the very least, you should be able to accept that people are going to look down on you. I dont HAVE to give my seat to the elderly, i dont HAVE to help someone who's getting mugged, I dont HAVE to be faithful to my girlfriend, but if i think i can not do those things and not be looked down on for it, i must be some special kind of moron. If you're going to be virtuous and high-in-morale in this subject, then "Selfishness" is probably the worst excuse for it. It's inert selfishness and greed for TL to discourage people from using ad-block for their own sake of revenue. If anyone is selfish first it's TL. Im not even saying being selfish in this sense is a bad thing, but you can't hold people to value's for a specific entity when that entity doesn't abide those same values. And that's a lesson in life, my friend. I'm very smart. TL provides you a product and get ad revenue in return. Since the ads are as non-intrusive as it gets, I call that mutually beneficial transaction. There's nothing selfish in that.
Non-intrusive visually? yes. Non-intrusive in the realm of privacy. Now that's debatable.
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EPT
