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Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 12:30:10
April 13 2018 12:29 GMT
#13821
So what I think xMZ is trying to say is a God probably exists, and if it does exists, we shouldn't care for its existence.

Of course in most Christian theology, the conception of God is one who exists in every physical and non-physical aspect of their conception of the world, but whatever.

I don't know why he has to make everything so complicated.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
April 13 2018 13:37 GMT
#13822
The idea of a future AI punishing people for not helping it come about doesn't make sense if you consider the AI a rational actor (it's a computer, why would you not?) and that punishing those that didn't help it come about carries some cost to its objetive function (presumably, remaining "alive" or whatever). In game theory terms, a "threat" from a future AI is not credible when after the fact (its birth) it's better off not punishing anybody.

In Pascal's wager, on the other hand, it's god we're talking about, so there's less reason to presume rationality or an objetive function that would be negatively affected by punishing.
Bora Pain minha porra!
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 17:57:00
April 13 2018 17:49 GMT
#13823
On April 13 2018 21:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
So what I think xMZ is trying to say is a God probably exists, and if it does exists, we shouldn't care for its existence.

Of course in most Christian theology, the conception of God is one who exists in every physical and non-physical aspect of their conception of the world, but whatever.

I don't know why he has to make everything so complicated.
ighpisrtnsrthsr, you guys don't get the indifference/impersonality and the vantage point of view in this.

to cut it short, i'll change that part into: a next level/plain of existence probably exists and if it does exists, we(at this point in evolution) shouldn't care for it.
i'd replace 'care' there too because it adds an emotion/feeling but whatever; if you can't reason it, then feel it(or don't actually).

and by saying that i'm not trying to impose a limit on thoughts and feelings, i'm merely pointing at the disadvantages of our nature.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Epishade
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2267 Posts
April 17 2018 19:41 GMT
#13824
Will my shower drain get clogged if I poop in the shower and then stomp it down the drain?
Pinhead Larry in the streets, Dirty Dan in the sheets.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
April 17 2018 19:55 GMT
#13825
On April 18 2018 04:41 Epishade wrote:
Will my shower drain get clogged if I poop in the shower and then stomp it down the drain?


Only scientific experimentation can bring you an answer to this question.
Bora Pain minha porra!
bloooargh
Profile Joined May 2012
United States28 Posts
April 17 2018 19:59 GMT
#13826
On April 18 2018 04:41 Epishade wrote:
Will my shower drain get clogged if I poop in the shower and then stomp it down the drain?

As the parent of a three-year-old, the answer is no.
IT COMPILED!!! SHIP IT!!!
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 17 2018 20:12 GMT
#13827
--- Nuked ---
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
April 17 2018 22:10 GMT
#13828
On April 18 2018 04:41 Epishade wrote:
Will my shower drain get clogged if I poop in the shower and then stomp it down the drain?


Poop generally won't clog the drain. Several other bodily fluids are safe for drain as well. Hair on the other hand will clog the drain.

Source: Military barracks showers
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
April 17 2018 22:11 GMT
#13829
Dear TL,

Is it gay if I make out with another dude, but only as practice for when I make out with non-dudes?
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 17 2018 22:17 GMT
#13830
--- Nuked ---
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11521 Posts
April 17 2018 22:23 GMT
#13831
Definitively not gay.

Pretty much all professors of gayology agree that as long as you think about women, it is not gay to make out with men.
Epishade
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2267 Posts
April 17 2018 22:53 GMT
#13832
My boyfriend and I do that all the time, and we're not gay.
Pinhead Larry in the streets, Dirty Dan in the sheets.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 17 2018 22:57 GMT
#13833
--- Nuked ---
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
April 18 2018 04:13 GMT
#13834
Okay, so is there a rule on whether I should close my eyes or open them? If we have our eyes open, then we're staring at each other while making out, and it becomes hard to picture making out with a non-dude and idk if that's gay. But if we both have our eyes closed, then we get to really focus on tasting each other's saliva and feeling the softness on each other's lips, and idk if that crosses the line somewhere.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
April 18 2018 08:17 GMT
#13835
if you don't even mention tasting the mustache then you're gay; that has to be the elephant there.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
ieltstips
Profile Joined April 2018
Australia1 Post
Last Edited: 2018-04-20 05:52:52
April 20 2018 05:52 GMT
#13836
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
April 24 2018 01:27 GMT
#13837
What is the google proxy? I think the IP was like 8.8.8.8 but I can't remember the port, and can't check due to a very interesting internet situation I've got going here
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
April 24 2018 02:36 GMT
#13838
On April 24 2018 10:27 Scip wrote:
What is the google proxy? I think the IP was like 8.8.8.8 but I can't remember the port, and can't check due to a very interesting internet situation I've got going here

Their public DNS server IPs are 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 if that helps. I know I had to use those when my ISP’s ones were funky.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
April 24 2018 02:52 GMT
#13839
On April 24 2018 11:36 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2018 10:27 Scip wrote:
What is the google proxy? I think the IP was like 8.8.8.8 but I can't remember the port, and can't check due to a very interesting internet situation I've got going here

Their public DNS server IPs are 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 if that helps. I know I had to use those when my ISP’s ones were funky.

Do I set those up as proxy servers or do something else with them
to set them up as proxy I need to put in port as well
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Myrddraal
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia937 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-24 04:59:27
April 24 2018 04:57 GMT
#13840
On April 08 2018 15:43 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2018 23:15 Simberto wrote:
On April 07 2018 20:51 xM(Z wrote:
i think we have very different ideas of what an AI is/can be. when you say things like "the AI was originally intended to improve the production of paperclips, and that is still it's primary motivation" you defy its definition.
an AI, any AI, would be able to stop itself from producing paperclips else it would be just a machine that went off the rails.
it would be able to question and change its design.

i'm here(AI=):
a rational agent is an agent that has clear preferences, models uncertainty via expected values of variables or functions of variables, and always chooses to perform the action with the optimal expected outcome for itself from among all feasible actions. A rational agent can be anything that makes decisions, typically a person, firm, machine, or software.


And what if the AI has a clear preference for building as many paper clips as possible? And chooses to perform the actions with the optimal expected outcome for itself, namely the ones that enable it to build as many paperclips as possible, and those which remove any obstacle which is in the way of that?

Just because it is rational and self-aware does not mean that it has human-like goals.
then we're still on the definition. you're describing an obsessive compulsive (human)disorder.
even if i take it as true and paperclips are its new black, there's no way it's the only value/variable/action it can weigh.
1)i'm here:
pref·er·ence (prĕf′ər-əns, prĕf′rəns) n.
a. The selecting of someone or something over another or others
b. The right or chance to make a choice
meaning it(the AI) can and does fathom other alternatives but in your example you chose to forgo that alternatives exist so:
- when presented with alternatives and paperclips is chosen, it needs to be a reason(the machine needs to respond to why?; if the reason and the why don't exist, then paperclips is hard-coded in its program by you which makes your so called AI not an AI at all);
- when presented with alternatives and paperclips become an obsession then the AI would do what people do: try and fix it.

i see the AI as continuing from 'the best' humans forward not cycle through the failures of the flesh(obsessive, possessive, depressive plus other vanity-esque features).

(see:
Show nested quote +
"The AI effect" tries to redefine AI to mean: AI is anything that has not been done yet

A view taken by some people trying to promulgate the AI effect is: As soon as AI successfully solves a problem, the problem is no longer a part of AI.
and you're cycling through every (solved)human flaw you know.
rise above the clouds: you are the worm and AI is the new human. do you think of the worms and how much of an obstacle they are to you?. come on ... at best, i'll give you collateral damage here(which is another can of worms in and of itself+ Show Spoiler +
mostly because it implies that the AI is stupid on some levels)
).

Edit: forgot about Uldridge - i'd argue that memory is not required for AI existence, but for its survival; then i'd argue that is not the memory(storage) that would best facilitate that, but the speed and the ability with which one can access the actual/immediate/physical information about <things one wants to learn>.
memory is a flaw even in human construction since it enables mistakes based on 'wrong' readings; or rather, a memory is as good/objective as the sensors reading the soon-to-be stored information are.


It sounds like Simberto has read or listened to some of Eliezer Yudkowsky's work, because the paperclip maximiser is his example of how he thinks "artificial general intelligence, even one designed competently and without malice, could ultimately destroy humanity".

The artificial intelligence that you are referring to would be further in the future I think, whereas the paperclip maximizer is an example that would be more likely to happen in the nearer future. Eliezer's caution is that if the alignment problem (how can we make sure the AI's goals will align with ours or be to our benefit) is not solved, which he thinks could take an extra 2-3 years longer than creating general AI that is not properly aligned, that is where he thinks the danger lies.

I think the most important definitions that people need to be aware of when discussing AI is the difference between general and specific intelligence. From what I have heard we are still quite far away from achieving powerful general AI, and we don't have a lot to fear from specific AI (such as those that mastered GO etc). What I'd be worried about is a powerful general AI that has access to or is able to create specific AI, and is not correctly aligned with our (human) goals.
[stranded]: http://www.indiedb.com/games/stranded
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