|
On August 17 2012 03:49 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:39 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:33 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:17 Zahir wrote:Poll: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden?No (61) 91% Yes (6) 9% 67 total votes Your vote: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Curious on people's opinions on this, given that US elite opinion is dead set against him, and many commentators here believe that those who leak "security" secrets should face the death penalty. Sweden is known for being a pretty neutral country, but as many here have pointed out, their behavior has been more than a little nonstandard/out of character in this particular case. Also, grow up. Its Sweden ffs. It would look awful for them and the usa if Assange suddenly disappears. And what would anyone do, nothing. This thing would be forgotten in a couple of months. Makes me not so proud to live in the western world tbh. And you know this how? Oh wait...you don't even live in the western world so you know absolutely shit. Maybe if you didn't just read conspiracy blogs you'd see that there's a huge segment of the population over here whom are very disgusted with the way privacy is being eroded and Assange's sudden death would be a huge uproar.
What?
There would be a huge uproar but nothing would be done... you honestly think otherwise? What do you think would happen exactly?
|
On August 17 2012 03:48 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:33 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:On August 17 2012 02:45 Pandemona wrote:On August 17 2012 02:25 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:On August 17 2012 02:09 Pandemona wrote:On August 17 2012 01:53 Trowa127 wrote:On August 17 2012 01:44 Pandemona wrote:On August 17 2012 01:17 Zennith wrote:On August 17 2012 00:58 TheRealArtemis wrote:
Funny to see people stand up for the guy who may or may not have raped a girl. I dont care what dirty secrets he uncover. The key phrase here is "OR MAY NOT HAVE" He hasn't even been fucking charged with a crime. So if he "didn't" why run from the law, citing the "there going to kill me because i uncovered secrets plee" i think he is digging himself a deeper and deeper hole, there is so many human rights crap you can pull on the wikileaks case, but he knows if he gets found guilty of child rape he will be found guilty no matter what. I think he is hiding for a reason and must be giving Ecudar alot of money to stay hiding. Ok, people really need to look up what he's actually accused off. Throwing around the words 'child rape' is ridiculous, it was consensual sex and only later did the Women decide to bring a complaint against him. If I was him, I'd be scared of extradition as well, the U.S and the U.K have no problem murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians, you think a politically motivated extradition is out of the question? And one-one-one - why is that an issue? What right do the government have to invade our private lives? Some people don't reference 1984 and still make completely valid arguments. Our governments show a complete lack of regard for human rights and international law, and then people are suprised that someone might be scared of them? Is this really so hard to follow? The whole 'anyone who cares about their right to privacy is a conspiracy theoring wielding nutjob' thing is getting so, so old. Its just a back stop when you can't come up with a real argument. For the 10% that ruin our lives doing countless crimes and all the other illegal crap, the policing of the world is having to go this far to find out what and who is breaking the law, and what and who are plotting to do stuff (terrorist sense) To have a safer world for people to "invade my privacy" i could not care less, im all for them invading anything they want of mine i have nothing to hide, feel free, especially if it helps catch the 10% that is ruining it for the rest of us. http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/Commentators often attempt to refute the nothing-to-hide argument by pointing to things people want to hide. But the problem with the nothing-to-hide argument is the underlying assumption that privacy is about hiding bad things. By accepting this assumption, we concede far too much ground and invite an unproductive discussion about information that people would very likely want to hide. As the computer-security specialist Schneier aptly notes, the nothing-to-hide argument stems from a faulty "premise that privacy is about hiding a wrong." Surveillance, for example, can inhibit such lawful activities as free speech, free association, and other First Amendment rights essential for democracy. Well that is some shocking article lmao. I still am all for anything like ID Cards, or mass CCTV camera's because unlike some i have experinced crime and nothing been done about it because not enough CCTV camera's on or anything, from silly things such as my bike being stolen or (not me my auntie) having her car hit whilst she was parked in a car park and the driver drove off and left her to pay the bill which was not her fault. To the bottom quote, you really think the police have enough man power to come after you for swearing in public or saying "fuck the police" or something as petty as that? I don't think so.. Fair enough. I think we should all write down our real names and addresses here, then. You know, in case one of us posts child porn. It'll help stop crime. Trust me. If you aren't posting child porn, what do you really have to hide? Right? Im all for that it if it went to the right people, i would not post it on team liquid so any old smuck can prank call me or send me stupid shit in the post lol. I would however have no problems giving out my personal information to goverments and what not if it was "to keep me safe" i don't get what the argument at all can be against not having ur "information" invaded, i mean what is there that they can manipulate and abuse? Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:39 Scheme wrote:On August 17 2012 02:45 Pandemona wrote:On August 17 2012 02:25 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:On August 17 2012 02:09 Pandemona wrote:On August 17 2012 01:53 Trowa127 wrote:On August 17 2012 01:44 Pandemona wrote:On August 17 2012 01:17 Zennith wrote:On August 17 2012 00:58 TheRealArtemis wrote:
Funny to see people stand up for the guy who may or may not have raped a girl. I dont care what dirty secrets he uncover. The key phrase here is "OR MAY NOT HAVE" He hasn't even been fucking charged with a crime. So if he "didn't" why run from the law, citing the "there going to kill me because i uncovered secrets plee" i think he is digging himself a deeper and deeper hole, there is so many human rights crap you can pull on the wikileaks case, but he knows if he gets found guilty of child rape he will be found guilty no matter what. I think he is hiding for a reason and must be giving Ecudar alot of money to stay hiding. Ok, people really need to look up what he's actually accused off. Throwing around the words 'child rape' is ridiculous, it was consensual sex and only later did the Women decide to bring a complaint against him. If I was him, I'd be scared of extradition as well, the U.S and the U.K have no problem murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians, you think a politically motivated extradition is out of the question? And one-one-one - why is that an issue? What right do the government have to invade our private lives? Some people don't reference 1984 and still make completely valid arguments. Our governments show a complete lack of regard for human rights and international law, and then people are suprised that someone might be scared of them? Is this really so hard to follow? The whole 'anyone who cares about their right to privacy is a conspiracy theoring wielding nutjob' thing is getting so, so old. Its just a back stop when you can't come up with a real argument. For the 10% that ruin our lives doing countless crimes and all the other illegal crap, the policing of the world is having to go this far to find out what and who is breaking the law, and what and who are plotting to do stuff (terrorist sense) To have a safer world for people to "invade my privacy" i could not care less, im all for them invading anything they want of mine i have nothing to hide, feel free, especially if it helps catch the 10% that is ruining it for the rest of us. http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/Commentators often attempt to refute the nothing-to-hide argument by pointing to things people want to hide. But the problem with the nothing-to-hide argument is the underlying assumption that privacy is about hiding bad things. By accepting this assumption, we concede far too much ground and invite an unproductive discussion about information that people would very likely want to hide. As the computer-security specialist Schneier aptly notes, the nothing-to-hide argument stems from a faulty "premise that privacy is about hiding a wrong." Surveillance, for example, can inhibit such lawful activities as free speech, free association, and other First Amendment rights essential for democracy. Well that is some shocking article lmao. I still am all for anything like ID Cards, or mass CCTV camera's because unlike some i have experinced crime and nothing been done about it because not enough CCTV camera's on or anything, from silly things such as my bike being stolen or (not me my auntie) having her car hit whilst she was parked in a car park and the driver drove off and left her to pay the bill which was not her fault. To the bottom quote, you really think the police have enough man power to come after you for swearing in public or saying "fuck the police" or something as petty as that? I don't think so.. No one cares about the petty stuff, people have issue with privacy when it comes down to more important things. Like things which could damage people in power, but still should be heard. I have experience crime as well, but I didn't think about surrendering all my rights to stop it. I hate quoting people as I think its overdone, but here, it just fits: He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither. Benjamin Franklin Nice quote from the 1700s... So whats your argument on not letting people know what your sending in a text message, or maybe once in a blue moon listening in on a phone call? Whats wrong with that? Or seeing what you browse on the internet? Or looking at you on a CCTV camera at 11pm a night walking home from a pub or something? I have yet to be told a proper reason as to why this would be a bad idea?
Thanks. I liked the 1700s....
I don't think the government should have the right to interfere in your personal life. you said it, its my browsing history. My phone conversations. No one else.
The issues of allowing a government to have such powers is that they can be abused. The problem is that most of this privacy invasion have no judicial oversight. So in the UK local council were snooping, without anyone approval on people if they thought they had lied about where they live when it came down to school places. What stops this people doing the same for personal gain. (<---- good reasons)
If judicial approval is granted to listen to a persons call for example, as they need to be justified to an impartial(in theory) judge. This creates a way of checking whether invasions of privacy are justified, say for someone suspect of committing a crime. I don't have a problem with that at all.
By the way, there is a reason why we don't give that sort of power to governments around the world. They were abused as power corrupts!
e.g.: Stalin et al.
|
On August 17 2012 03:39 Zandar wrote:
Is there anyone from the USA here who think it's justified that Bradley Manning is detained without trial now for over 800 days?
Nope don't care. He will go to trial and get convicted. The trial is in September.
|
On August 17 2012 03:55 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:49 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:39 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:33 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:17 Zahir wrote:Poll: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden?No (61) 91% Yes (6) 9% 67 total votes Your vote: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Curious on people's opinions on this, given that US elite opinion is dead set against him, and many commentators here believe that those who leak "security" secrets should face the death penalty. Sweden is known for being a pretty neutral country, but as many here have pointed out, their behavior has been more than a little nonstandard/out of character in this particular case. Also, grow up. Its Sweden ffs. It would look awful for them and the usa if Assange suddenly disappears. And what would anyone do, nothing. This thing would be forgotten in a couple of months. Makes me not so proud to live in the western world tbh. And you know this how? Oh wait...you don't even live in the western world so you know absolutely shit. Maybe if you didn't just read conspiracy blogs you'd see that there's a huge segment of the population over here whom are very disgusted with the way privacy is being eroded and Assange's sudden death would be a huge uproar. What? There would be a huge uproar but nothing would be done... you honestly think otherwise? What do you think would happen exactly?
Right, because the uproar regarding SOPA did nothing?
|
On August 17 2012 03:43 DwD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:41 Scheme wrote:On August 17 2012 03:37 DwD wrote:On August 17 2012 03:02 Fenrax wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous. I am very biased against rapists but this trial is just a joke. And everyone who defends the USA-Sweden-Great Britain connection should check the facts on this case first.
There was no rape. There was no molestation. Well thank god you were there so you know everything that happened!!! Why didn't you step up 2 years ago and this whole mess could've been avoided!!! ... If he is so afraid of getting extradited to the USA from Sweden why did he praise our country so much, placed his wikileaks servers here and even stayed for some time freely in Sweden? ... This whole idea of Sweden extraditing him is such a big lie, if USA wanted him so badly they would've talked to UK since they have a closer relationship. Assange is a coward, who doesn't have the courage to stand up for what he did and now he is trying to make a circus out of it. This is the guy who wanted the truth to come out and for people to stand for their actions. Yet he is unwilling to do so himself. Stand up for what he did? Are you aware he hasn't been convicted(well by you he has, but not a court in Sweden) and its his word against the people who accused him. I'm pretty sure he is scared of the death penalty in the US rather than the molestation charges in Sweden I'm very well aware that he hasn't been convicted. Because if he showed up I'm pretty sure he would. If he is scared of the death penalty why is he in the UK to begin with? You know they can extradite him much easier than Sweden can? Don't you think the 2 women deserve their day in court?
no i don't think they do. not because a condom broke. If like Sweden pretends he is only wanted for questionning, he doesn't have to go to Sweden for that.
The UK refused Pinochet's extradition but they're ready to break international treaties (removing diplomatic immunity, basically making a joke of the all diplomatic immunity concept) just to get Assange to Sweden, this is unreal.
Well done Ecuador, finally a country that doesn't let his sovereignty get shit on by the US.
|
On August 17 2012 04:04 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:55 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:49 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:39 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:33 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:17 Zahir wrote:Poll: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden?No (61) 91% Yes (6) 9% 67 total votes Your vote: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Curious on people's opinions on this, given that US elite opinion is dead set against him, and many commentators here believe that those who leak "security" secrets should face the death penalty. Sweden is known for being a pretty neutral country, but as many here have pointed out, their behavior has been more than a little nonstandard/out of character in this particular case. Also, grow up. Its Sweden ffs. It would look awful for them and the usa if Assange suddenly disappears. And what would anyone do, nothing. This thing would be forgotten in a couple of months. Makes me not so proud to live in the western world tbh. And you know this how? Oh wait...you don't even live in the western world so you know absolutely shit. Maybe if you didn't just read conspiracy blogs you'd see that there's a huge segment of the population over here whom are very disgusted with the way privacy is being eroded and Assange's sudden death would be a huge uproar. What? There would be a huge uproar but nothing would be done... you honestly think otherwise? What do you think would happen exactly? Right, because the uproar regarding SOPA did nothing?
How is that comparable? Would the wrongdoers be punished in any meaningful way?
|
On August 17 2012 03:55 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:49 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:39 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:33 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:17 Zahir wrote:Poll: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden?No (61) 91% Yes (6) 9% 67 total votes Your vote: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Curious on people's opinions on this, given that US elite opinion is dead set against him, and many commentators here believe that those who leak "security" secrets should face the death penalty. Sweden is known for being a pretty neutral country, but as many here have pointed out, their behavior has been more than a little nonstandard/out of character in this particular case. Also, grow up. Its Sweden ffs. It would look awful for them and the usa if Assange suddenly disappears. And what would anyone do, nothing. This thing would be forgotten in a couple of months. Makes me not so proud to live in the western world tbh. And you know this how? Oh wait...you don't even live in the western world so you know absolutely shit. Maybe if you didn't just read conspiracy blogs you'd see that there's a huge segment of the population over here whom are very disgusted with the way privacy is being eroded and Assange's sudden death would be a huge uproar. What? There would be a huge uproar but nothing would be done... you honestly think otherwise? What do you think would happen exactly?
Ows, anonymous and similar movements get major boosts, wikileaks enjoys the martyr effect and gains lots of funding/support just when it needs it, part of the Democratic base becomes even more confused and dispirited than they were, media scrambles to justify state crimes while indie media does the opposite, countrys political division and degeneration accelerates slightly, the us's image deteriorates further, citizens become more paranoid.
|
On August 17 2012 04:04 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:55 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:49 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:39 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:33 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:17 Zahir wrote:Poll: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden?No (61) 91% Yes (6) 9% 67 total votes Your vote: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Curious on people's opinions on this, given that US elite opinion is dead set against him, and many commentators here believe that those who leak "security" secrets should face the death penalty. Sweden is known for being a pretty neutral country, but as many here have pointed out, their behavior has been more than a little nonstandard/out of character in this particular case. Also, grow up. Its Sweden ffs. It would look awful for them and the usa if Assange suddenly disappears. And what would anyone do, nothing. This thing would be forgotten in a couple of months. Makes me not so proud to live in the western world tbh. And you know this how? Oh wait...you don't even live in the western world so you know absolutely shit. Maybe if you didn't just read conspiracy blogs you'd see that there's a huge segment of the population over here whom are very disgusted with the way privacy is being eroded and Assange's sudden death would be a huge uproar. What? There would be a huge uproar but nothing would be done... you honestly think otherwise? What do you think would happen exactly? Right, because the uproar regarding SOPA did nothing?
That's like the worst comparison ever.
|
On August 17 2012 03:52 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:37 DwD wrote:On August 17 2012 03:02 Fenrax wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous. I am very biased against rapists but this trial is just a joke. And everyone who defends the USA-Sweden-Great Britain connection should check the facts on this case first.
There was no rape. There was no molestation. Well thank god you were there so you know everything that happened!!! Why didn't you step up 2 years ago and this whole mess could've been avoided!!! ... If he is so afraid of getting extradited to the USA from Sweden why did he praise our country so much, placed his wikileaks servers here and even stayed for some time freely in Sweden? ... This whole idea of Sweden extraditing him is such a big lie, if USA wanted him so badly they would've talked to UK since they have a closer relationship. Assange is a coward, who doesn't have the courage to stand up for what he did and now he is trying to make a circus out of it. This is the guy who wanted the truth to come out and for people to stand for their actions. Yet he is unwilling to do so himself. The US-Sweden extradition conventions are different from US-UK extradition conventions, UK law is different from Sweden law, His only risk in Sweden regarding these "rape" charges (if not putting on a condom is rape...) is a 1000€ fine. So, do you think that everyone around him is so blind that they would throw hundred of thousands to help him to avoid that 1000€?
Of course it's rape, if the woman resisted. The circumstances are irrelevant.
|
damn there is a lot of crazy conspiracy people in this thread.....
People who claim that Sweden is somehow in the pocket of the United States and that that is more likely than Assange somehow raped someone.
Even if he didn't (no one here knows if he did or not) he should still go there so the Swedish court can settle the case.
IF USA wanted him extra-dict then I am sure they could get UK to do so and not require him to go to Sweden first.
The funny thing is that most people who believe these crazy conspiracies are from the US, they obviously don't know much about Sweden or Scandinavia, we aren't corrupt like, our court aren't corrupt and we don't extra-dict to nations where people can face the death penalty
|
On August 17 2012 04:11 ninini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:52 Kukaracha wrote:On August 17 2012 03:37 DwD wrote:On August 17 2012 03:02 Fenrax wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous. I am very biased against rapists but this trial is just a joke. And everyone who defends the USA-Sweden-Great Britain connection should check the facts on this case first.
There was no rape. There was no molestation. Well thank god you were there so you know everything that happened!!! Why didn't you step up 2 years ago and this whole mess could've been avoided!!! ... If he is so afraid of getting extradited to the USA from Sweden why did he praise our country so much, placed his wikileaks servers here and even stayed for some time freely in Sweden? ... This whole idea of Sweden extraditing him is such a big lie, if USA wanted him so badly they would've talked to UK since they have a closer relationship. Assange is a coward, who doesn't have the courage to stand up for what he did and now he is trying to make a circus out of it. This is the guy who wanted the truth to come out and for people to stand for their actions. Yet he is unwilling to do so himself. The US-Sweden extradition conventions are different from US-UK extradition conventions, UK law is different from Sweden law, His only risk in Sweden regarding these "rape" charges (if not putting on a condom is rape...) is a 1000€ fine. So, do you think that everyone around him is so blind that they would throw hundred of thousands to help him to avoid that 1000€? Of course it's rape, if the woman resisted. The circumstances are irrelevant.
which is inherently impossible to prove, so all you have is hear-say. in this case since there was no sign of abuse.
|
On August 17 2012 03:42 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:39 Zandar wrote:
Is there anyone from the USA here who think it's justified that Bradley Manning is detained without trial now for over 800 days? Exactly. 'Nuff said?
Yep...
Sad thing is, he himself was probably thinking he did what was best for his country at the time he gave Wikileaks the info. To make people aware of certain malpractices of their own government towards them. To fight corruption.
But when the government doesn't like that they can just neglect rules it seems.
The government, chosen by the people, for the people.
And for the record, this could happen in any western "civilized" country, not only the USA.
Nobody thinks it's justified to keep someone locked without a trial like that for 800 days but still it happened.
Democracy is an illusion.
Probably one of the reasons the USA get so much shit so often too. Other dominating states like Russia and China are way worse with civil rights but they don't preach to bring freedom and democracy to the world.
If you do that, but neglect to uphold the same standards for yourself of course people start to dislike it.
|
On August 17 2012 04:04 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 03:55 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:49 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:39 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:33 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:17 Zahir wrote:Poll: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden?No (61) 91% Yes (6) 9% 67 total votes Your vote: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Curious on people's opinions on this, given that US elite opinion is dead set against him, and many commentators here believe that those who leak "security" secrets should face the death penalty. Sweden is known for being a pretty neutral country, but as many here have pointed out, their behavior has been more than a little nonstandard/out of character in this particular case. Also, grow up. Its Sweden ffs. It would look awful for them and the usa if Assange suddenly disappears. And what would anyone do, nothing. This thing would be forgotten in a couple of months. Makes me not so proud to live in the western world tbh. And you know this how? Oh wait...you don't even live in the western world so you know absolutely shit. Maybe if you didn't just read conspiracy blogs you'd see that there's a huge segment of the population over here whom are very disgusted with the way privacy is being eroded and Assange's sudden death would be a huge uproar. What? There would be a huge uproar but nothing would be done... you honestly think otherwise? What do you think would happen exactly? Right, because the uproar regarding SOPA did nothing?
Ok what was the uproar for the massive deportations of people (mostly if not always muslims) from all around europe by CIA flights? yeep
*cough*
http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/11/09/sweden-violated-torture-ban-cia-rendition
|
On August 17 2012 04:08 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 04:04 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:55 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:49 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:39 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:33 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:17 Zahir wrote:Poll: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden?No (61) 91% Yes (6) 9% 67 total votes Your vote: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Curious on people's opinions on this, given that US elite opinion is dead set against him, and many commentators here believe that those who leak "security" secrets should face the death penalty. Sweden is known for being a pretty neutral country, but as many here have pointed out, their behavior has been more than a little nonstandard/out of character in this particular case. Also, grow up. Its Sweden ffs. It would look awful for them and the usa if Assange suddenly disappears. And what would anyone do, nothing. This thing would be forgotten in a couple of months. Makes me not so proud to live in the western world tbh. And you know this how? Oh wait...you don't even live in the western world so you know absolutely shit. Maybe if you didn't just read conspiracy blogs you'd see that there's a huge segment of the population over here whom are very disgusted with the way privacy is being eroded and Assange's sudden death would be a huge uproar. What? There would be a huge uproar but nothing would be done... you honestly think otherwise? What do you think would happen exactly? Right, because the uproar regarding SOPA did nothing? How is that comparable? Would the wrongdoers be punished in any meaningful way?
It's comparable because politicians are tied to votes. As more and more people become disgruntled, they become more and more likely to vote for alternatives. The "wrongdoers" aren't going to be punished because they're not going to do anything. I mean do you really, really, think Obama would risk something like this when the election is just a few months
away? The democratic base is already pissed about a lot of things, and this is just the fire that opponenets would latch on to.
On August 17 2012 04:10 zedi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 04:04 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:55 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:49 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:39 Daray wrote:On August 17 2012 03:33 1Eris1 wrote:On August 17 2012 03:17 Zahir wrote:Poll: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden?No (61) 91% Yes (6) 9% 67 total votes Your vote: If you were assange would you risk returning to Sweden? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Curious on people's opinions on this, given that US elite opinion is dead set against him, and many commentators here believe that those who leak "security" secrets should face the death penalty. Sweden is known for being a pretty neutral country, but as many here have pointed out, their behavior has been more than a little nonstandard/out of character in this particular case. Also, grow up. Its Sweden ffs. It would look awful for them and the usa if Assange suddenly disappears. And what would anyone do, nothing. This thing would be forgotten in a couple of months. Makes me not so proud to live in the western world tbh. And you know this how? Oh wait...you don't even live in the western world so you know absolutely shit. Maybe if you didn't just read conspiracy blogs you'd see that there's a huge segment of the population over here whom are very disgusted with the way privacy is being eroded and Assange's sudden death would be a huge uproar. What? There would be a huge uproar but nothing would be done... you honestly think otherwise? What do you think would happen exactly? Right, because the uproar regarding SOPA did nothing? That's like the worst comparison ever.
Explain how? It's not about the specific details (even though they are considerably related), it's about how voters will react to politicians who allow such things to happen. (Especially when their oppenents bring it up)
|
On August 17 2012 04:13 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 04:11 ninini wrote:On August 17 2012 03:52 Kukaracha wrote:On August 17 2012 03:37 DwD wrote:On August 17 2012 03:02 Fenrax wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous. I am very biased against rapists but this trial is just a joke. And everyone who defends the USA-Sweden-Great Britain connection should check the facts on this case first.
There was no rape. There was no molestation. Well thank god you were there so you know everything that happened!!! Why didn't you step up 2 years ago and this whole mess could've been avoided!!! ... If he is so afraid of getting extradited to the USA from Sweden why did he praise our country so much, placed his wikileaks servers here and even stayed for some time freely in Sweden? ... This whole idea of Sweden extraditing him is such a big lie, if USA wanted him so badly they would've talked to UK since they have a closer relationship. Assange is a coward, who doesn't have the courage to stand up for what he did and now he is trying to make a circus out of it. This is the guy who wanted the truth to come out and for people to stand for their actions. Yet he is unwilling to do so himself. The US-Sweden extradition conventions are different from US-UK extradition conventions, UK law is different from Sweden law, His only risk in Sweden regarding these "rape" charges (if not putting on a condom is rape...) is a 1000€ fine. So, do you think that everyone around him is so blind that they would throw hundred of thousands to help him to avoid that 1000€? Of course it's rape, if the woman resisted. The circumstances are irrelevant. which is inherently impossible to prove, so all you have is hear-say. in this case since there was no sign of abuse.
But that's usually the case when it comes to rape. The jury have to listen to both sides of the story and decide which side seems the most plausible. Are you saying that we shouldn't convict ppl for rape anymore?
|
On August 17 2012 04:15 ninini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 04:13 Nizaris wrote:On August 17 2012 04:11 ninini wrote:On August 17 2012 03:52 Kukaracha wrote:On August 17 2012 03:37 DwD wrote:On August 17 2012 03:02 Fenrax wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous. I am very biased against rapists but this trial is just a joke. And everyone who defends the USA-Sweden-Great Britain connection should check the facts on this case first.
There was no rape. There was no molestation. Well thank god you were there so you know everything that happened!!! Why didn't you step up 2 years ago and this whole mess could've been avoided!!! ... If he is so afraid of getting extradited to the USA from Sweden why did he praise our country so much, placed his wikileaks servers here and even stayed for some time freely in Sweden? ... This whole idea of Sweden extraditing him is such a big lie, if USA wanted him so badly they would've talked to UK since they have a closer relationship. Assange is a coward, who doesn't have the courage to stand up for what he did and now he is trying to make a circus out of it. This is the guy who wanted the truth to come out and for people to stand for their actions. Yet he is unwilling to do so himself. The US-Sweden extradition conventions are different from US-UK extradition conventions, UK law is different from Sweden law, His only risk in Sweden regarding these "rape" charges (if not putting on a condom is rape...) is a 1000€ fine. So, do you think that everyone around him is so blind that they would throw hundred of thousands to help him to avoid that 1000€? Of course it's rape, if the woman resisted. The circumstances are irrelevant. which is inherently impossible to prove, so all you have is hear-say. in this case since there was no sign of abuse. But that's usually the case when it comes to rape. The jury have to listen to both sides of the story and decide which side seems the most plausible. Are you saying that we shouldn't convict ppl for rape anymore?
not a women that willfully lied in some1's bed, kept hanging out with him after the alleged 'rape' and suddenly decided 3 months later it was rape.
most rape case have evidence of abuse, or a toxicology report or some shred of physical evidence.
|
On August 17 2012 04:18 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 04:15 ninini wrote:On August 17 2012 04:13 Nizaris wrote:On August 17 2012 04:11 ninini wrote:On August 17 2012 03:52 Kukaracha wrote:On August 17 2012 03:37 DwD wrote:On August 17 2012 03:02 Fenrax wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous. I am very biased against rapists but this trial is just a joke. And everyone who defends the USA-Sweden-Great Britain connection should check the facts on this case first.
There was no rape. There was no molestation. Well thank god you were there so you know everything that happened!!! Why didn't you step up 2 years ago and this whole mess could've been avoided!!! ... If he is so afraid of getting extradited to the USA from Sweden why did he praise our country so much, placed his wikileaks servers here and even stayed for some time freely in Sweden? ... This whole idea of Sweden extraditing him is such a big lie, if USA wanted him so badly they would've talked to UK since they have a closer relationship. Assange is a coward, who doesn't have the courage to stand up for what he did and now he is trying to make a circus out of it. This is the guy who wanted the truth to come out and for people to stand for their actions. Yet he is unwilling to do so himself. The US-Sweden extradition conventions are different from US-UK extradition conventions, UK law is different from Sweden law, His only risk in Sweden regarding these "rape" charges (if not putting on a condom is rape...) is a 1000€ fine. So, do you think that everyone around him is so blind that they would throw hundred of thousands to help him to avoid that 1000€? Of course it's rape, if the woman resisted. The circumstances are irrelevant. which is inherently impossible to prove, so all you have is hear-say. in this case since there was no sign of abuse. But that's usually the case when it comes to rape. The jury have to listen to both sides of the story and decide which side seems the most plausible. Are you saying that we shouldn't convict ppl for rape anymore? not a women that willfully lied in some1's bed, kept hanging out with him after the alleged 'rape' and suddenly decided 3 months later it was rape. most rape case have physical evidence of abuse actually. or a toxicology report or some shred of physical evidence.
you don't know about the 2nd thoughts law? it allows woman to revoke their willingness to said sex after it happened. It's the greatest showcase for womans rights. The right to choose again. Go Swedish feminist party!
(sorry, couldn't really resist... )
|
On August 17 2012 04:21 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 04:18 Nizaris wrote:On August 17 2012 04:15 ninini wrote:On August 17 2012 04:13 Nizaris wrote:On August 17 2012 04:11 ninini wrote:On August 17 2012 03:52 Kukaracha wrote:On August 17 2012 03:37 DwD wrote:On August 17 2012 03:02 Fenrax wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous. I am very biased against rapists but this trial is just a joke. And everyone who defends the USA-Sweden-Great Britain connection should check the facts on this case first.
There was no rape. There was no molestation. Well thank god you were there so you know everything that happened!!! Why didn't you step up 2 years ago and this whole mess could've been avoided!!! ... If he is so afraid of getting extradited to the USA from Sweden why did he praise our country so much, placed his wikileaks servers here and even stayed for some time freely in Sweden? ... This whole idea of Sweden extraditing him is such a big lie, if USA wanted him so badly they would've talked to UK since they have a closer relationship. Assange is a coward, who doesn't have the courage to stand up for what he did and now he is trying to make a circus out of it. This is the guy who wanted the truth to come out and for people to stand for their actions. Yet he is unwilling to do so himself. The US-Sweden extradition conventions are different from US-UK extradition conventions, UK law is different from Sweden law, His only risk in Sweden regarding these "rape" charges (if not putting on a condom is rape...) is a 1000€ fine. So, do you think that everyone around him is so blind that they would throw hundred of thousands to help him to avoid that 1000€? Of course it's rape, if the woman resisted. The circumstances are irrelevant. which is inherently impossible to prove, so all you have is hear-say. in this case since there was no sign of abuse. But that's usually the case when it comes to rape. The jury have to listen to both sides of the story and decide which side seems the most plausible. Are you saying that we shouldn't convict ppl for rape anymore? not a women that willfully lied in some1's bed, kept hanging out with him after the alleged 'rape' and suddenly decided 3 months later it was rape. most rape case have physical evidence of abuse actually. or a toxicology report or some shred of physical evidence. you don't know about the 2nd thoughts law? it allows woman to revoke their willingness to said sex after it happened. It's the greatest showcase for womans rights. The right to choose again. Go Swedish feminist party! (sorry, couldn't really resist... )
you just crushed my dream about going to Sweden... 
|
On August 17 2012 04:11 Ramong wrote:
Even if he didn't (no one here knows if he did or not) he should still go there so the Swedish court can settle the case.
IF USA wanted him extra-dict then I am sure they could get UK to do so and not require him to go to Sweden first.
He was allowed to leave the country, apparently there's no charges against him and the prosecutor just wants to question him, they don't want to do it in the embassy or in the UK and they're ready violate laws to ship him to Sweden. Somethings fishy to me
|
I wonder how much this woman got to scream rape, at least she couldn't do it with a straight face and just said that he broke a condom.Easiest way to destroy a public man's life, accuse him of rape, no need for bruises, for signs of forced intercourse, put on a sad face and you are good to go, this case is hillarious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
