i feel like ty was playing the better games. he lost cuz of strategy choices. the proxy play didnt work out.
especially the last game was sad. rogue's reaction (the camera showed his face) when he saw the scv's and marines coming, it proves that rogue thought he was dead. his 3 hatch bo was a reaction to thinking ty wouldnt proxy again. turns out that the 3. hatch did win him the game. so kinda lucky on rogues side and unlucky by ty.
i ask myself if ty could have killed the 3. hatch as well or if its the counter to a 2rax proxy. if u interpret rogues reaction u may think ty could have killed it too. or rogue didnt know either if its good or bad to have this 3. hatch.

would have loved to see serrals zvt tested as well. ty vs serral would have been an epic game.
i hope rogue vs serral will be as well as dark vs serral.

Elentos

55571 Posts

November 03 2018 09:46 GMT

#1604

The rough game was game 2. TY kills the natural, sees Rogue is on 1 base and has roach/ling. TY has 2 marines left from his proxy. What does he do? Make a reactor in his wall. Really that probably cost him the series.

uummpaa

238 Posts

November 03 2018 10:05 GMT

#1605

On November 03 2018 18:46 Elentos wrote:
The rough game was game 2. TY kills the natural, sees Rogue is on 1 base and has roach/ling. TY has 2 marines left from his proxy. What does he do? Make a reactor in his wall. Really that probably cost him the series.

proxying so many games when he won all the macro games cost him i'd say...

Elentos

55571 Posts

November 03 2018 10:25 GMT

#1606

On November 03 2018 19:05 uummpaa wrote:

Show nested quote +

proxying so many games when he won all the macro games cost him i'd say...

The choice is fine. Rogue never expected TY to proxy again in game 5, could have worked out incredibly. It's the execution/follow-ups that don't hold up under scrutiny.

uummpaa

238 Posts

November 03 2018 10:37 GMT

#1607

On November 03 2018 19:25 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

The choice is fine. Rogue never expected TY to proxy again in game 5, could have worked out incredibly. It's the execution/follow-ups that don't hold up under scrutiny.

yeah, sure after he lost two proxys i wouldn't expect that either, he still lost two games that way, while he won the more "standard" games, both rather convincingly i'd say

a player with the wit of TY should have realised that during a series and play accordingly, instead of subbornly sticking to his plan (even if it was not a bad plan per se as you said, it still didn't work that day)

Poopi

France12912 Posts

November 03 2018 11:58 GMT

#1608

The fact that he won two games playing "standard" (bear in mind it was his 2rax proxies that allowed him to get away with the fake reaper proxy on lost and found) doesn't prove he would have won game 5 playing standard.

I think he could have checked the third base... checking the main was fine but it wasn't proof of ravager followup.

sneakyfox

8216 Posts

November 06 2018 14:14 GMT

#1609

Don't know if this was better or worse than last year. It felt like he had just as big an opportunity to win the series this time, but last year he would almost certainly have won the championship too. This year would have been much more difficult in beating first Serral and then Stats (just can't see him beating Stats in a Bo7 right now).

But yeah, TY definitely seemed like the better player. If only he improved his scouting. I just don't understand why it isn't a bigger priority for him. Rogue beat him in a game at IEM Katowice (iirc on Neon Violet Square) in almost the exact same fashion as game 5. TY did an okay proxy and should have been far ahead, but he never checked to see if Rogue took the third and thus misread the game and lost it in the end. And that's not even mentioning that insanse streak of dying to unscouted shitty ravager builds.

TY is so good at reading a game and understanding how to handle it, but that is only possible if you have the good intel. If there is one thing he could learn from Serral that would be it.

On November 03 2018 19:25 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

The choice is fine. Rogue never expected TY to proxy again in game 5, could have worked out incredibly. It's the execution/follow-ups that don't hold up under scrutiny.

The one I don't understand is game 3. Why not go back to what worked since the proxy failed in game 2? He wasn't exactly lucky either... Rogue with the early pool on both of TY's proxy-builds.

sneakyfox

8216 Posts

November 16 2018 13:57 GMT

#1610

Did anybody watch TY's loss to ByuN in the wesg qualifiers? What happened?

He could have TvT'ed his way to the finals

Elentos

55571 Posts

November 16 2018 15:56 GMT

#1611

It wasn't casted. ByuN is a bad match-up for TY stylistically so it's only a minor upset, there were much bigger upsets in the qualifier today (e.g. PartinG beating Rogue). Also getting to the finals wouldn't have mattered because he would have had to play Dark

I think TY is already preparing for the new patch a lot. The builds he has been using in online cups on the new patch have looked well thought out (despite not all of them working), Special also asked him to play on the new patch on his stream before and TY agreed. So hopefully TY will do better in the 2nd qualifier in 2 weeks.

sneakyfox

8216 Posts

November 16 2018 16:11 GMT

#1612

Thanks for the info! Although I don't agree that ByuN is that bad an opponent for TY, but Dark definitely is

I didn't know that the online cups already switched to the new patch. And really interesting that they play the second qualifier on that too. Looking forward to that.

Elentos

55571 Posts

November 16 2018 16:22 GMT

#1613

Well I don't mean a bad opponent as in he dominates head to head but more like that ByuN plays a style that's good against how TY plays. So ByuN wins games against TY that Inno for example maybe wouldn't have. Even when TY is the better player than ByuN he usually drops at least a few maps against him.

Also the new patch goes live next week and the next Korean qualifier for WESG is in 2 weeks. All the online cups in Korea have switched to the new patch already. It's actually a tad bizarre WESG isn't played on the new patch considering that timing I think.

sneakyfox

8216 Posts

November 17 2018 10:23 GMT

#1614

Yeah, it is actually extremely weird to have a qualifier played in two different games! (even if they are obviously quite similar). You wouldn't find that in many other sports.

I really hope TY makes it through the second qualifier, even if the odds of becoming that single player are necessarily low. Think it would be very good for him to go there again. He should safely make the semi's at least (baring shitty luck in the draw) if he plays somewhere near his level.

sneakyfox

8216 Posts

November 21 2018 11:44 GMT

#1615

TY is streaming now: https://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/sc2ty

sneakyfox

8216 Posts

November 22 2018 11:47 GMT

#1616

So TY's tvp is at 28% on ladder. Does not look like the balance changes are suiting him very well - or at least he hasn't found the ways yet. On stream he said that tvz is "easy" ("but imba vs Serral") and his tvt is clearly very strong - no surprise there.

Yesterday, he played a lot against Stats on stream and lost all but one game which was essentially decided early. It seems that macro games against P are still very hard. TY goes into Raven/ghost/liberator plus bio and even though he controls it very well it doesn't add up.

Hard to be optimistic about his chances in WESG.

Elentos

55571 Posts

November 22 2018 15:48 GMT

#1617

It takes time to figure things out. Patch hasn't been out for that long. He also 2-0'd Stats in Ballistix Brawl yesterday.

He also makes some mistakes that shouldn't be too hard to fix (some really bad engagements).

sneakyfox

8216 Posts

November 22 2018 16:59 GMT

#1618

Yea, but WESG qualifier is soon, I dunno if that's time enough. And tbh that match against Stats was much more about Stats playing poorly.

I guess we will also see what happens with balance changes in the coming months, but for WESG I think it's very unlikely that TY makes it.

Elentos

55571 Posts

November 22 2018 17:06 GMT

#1619

If he can get another bracket like in the first qualifier where Protoss is dead before he has to play them he can totally make it

sneakyfox

8216 Posts

November 22 2018 17:09 GMT

#1620

On November 23 2018 02:06 Elentos wrote:
If he can get another bracket like in the first qualifier where Protoss is dead before he has to play them he can totally make it

The 1000 IQ strategy