Yeah you could feel how he dropped the game and then his banelings ran straight into everything. I mean it was like if the terran purposely surrounded every single baneling. Shittily played to the max.
BUT what I then expect from a commentator are sentences like:
WoW. This was pure luck...He could have easily...... A not completely retarded terran would have........ I could have prepared for that All-In better by....... Mass Thor repair actually seems completely imbalanced to me because.....
I know idrA is a highly mechanical player and I love him for that but he could go for totally different tactics if he considers his opponents THAT retard. For example: Play Roach Hydra in ZvT. Go Ling Infestor. Ultrarush/Proxy Hatch. WHATEVER. He doesn't have to play the games seriously if he says he can't learn anything from that but has made us this awesome promise.
Idra was debating that the current meta game is imbalanced for zerg. How is saying overlords can be denied by marines, that a wall-in prevents drone scouting, or that spine crawlers take too long to build only after immediately detecting a push convey some sort of indepth knowledge, as if day9 is retarded and doesn't know any of this obvious stuff?
Day9 must know all these facts, but maybe he's never heard them all put together in a logical argument? Or maybe he just hadn't thought about it very much? He certainly had no substantive response to what Idra was saying.
On May 04 2011 18:58 Tyrant0 wrote:
Idra made the point, several times, that one of the problems with zerg, is that spine crawlers take too long to build and don't finish in time for rushes, and that zerg falls behind economically if they over make units for a rush that end up being useless later. If he didn't say any of these things, my god prove me wrong.
He didn't say this. He said that Zerg needs either (a) better scouting, or (b) a safe build that can defend against all the early game aggression that can't be scouted. He did say that one partial solution to (b) would be if spine crawlers built faster, but h also that they don't help much against banshees.
On May 05 2011 05:41 starsucks wrote: Man, I want my Q&A. Seriously this commenting was nerve wrecking. I rly can understand IdrA's frustration but that was just super tilt mode. He could have explained so much more and I think even if his opponents are dickheads he could say something about anticipating and stopping an All-in. For example it was insane how he stopped the double thor all-in with nothing but a handful of lings blings and 5 mutas or so. Talk about that idrA. Tell us what is in your head. I mean even if you get owned by something stupid you're fully aware that you can be back on #1 in 20 games regardless of how many games you have lost before.
If you're frustrated do something funny and comment it funnily. For example: When this guy double bunker blocked you. Don't leave but try to cheese in a crazy way, etc. Play toss or terran for one time or even play some team matches. Because this commenting wasn't funny and enjoyable. It was rather depressing and you really coud feel on how heavy tilt you went.
he specifically said he doesn't like wasting time, your "omg play toss terran team matches cater to viewers" is wasting time. honestly i would turn off the stream if i saw him playing protoss/terran for a lot of people his commenting was hilarious so that is an opinion you have not a fact
So you enjoyed that stream?
I normally turn on idrA's stream to watch serious and mechanically flawless zerg play while enjoying strange techno music BUT if he promises to comment and analyze he should do that or do something funny to keep up with his promise. He did that in the beginning (the zvz was very interesting) but then he went on tilt because getting all-inned and there was no reason for that. I actually believe he even provoked it. Normally there aren't that many All-Ins and people never add him to parties. I asume all of his opponents were stream sniping. He could also do some analysis by picking a good pro match he played and commenting the replay. Everything would be better then him staying silent after the third all-in and hacking on the keyboard. Why would it be a waste of time to show people why he considers some all-ins too strong by showing them from first person?
@siggurant: I think at the moment we should completely ignore Day9's opinion ont the game and balance. I believe day9 has lost a lot of authority and knowledge about the current game. He openly admits to not having watched any current top matches and tells us constantly that he actually doesn't know about this and has no time to discuss that. He can't back up a single statement he makes and tries to argue from completely theoretical and philosophical positions that need no game knowledge at all and don't help any pro zerg who is losing possibly hundreds of dollars because he has apparently picked an inferior race and has to face problems the other races don't even think of.
On May 05 2011 05:41 starsucks wrote: Man, I want my Q&A. Seriously this commenting was nerve wrecking. I rly can understand IdrA's frustration but that was just super tilt mode. He could have explained so much more and I think even if his opponents are dickheads he could say something about anticipating and stopping an All-in. For example it was insane how he stopped the double thor all-in with nothing but a handful of lings blings and 5 mutas or so. Talk about that idrA. Tell us what is in your head. I mean even if you get owned by something stupid you're fully aware that you can be back on #1 in 20 games regardless of how many games you have lost before.
If you're frustrated do something funny and comment it funnily. For example: When this guy double bunker blocked you. Don't leave but try to cheese in a crazy way, etc. Play toss or terran for one time or even play some team matches. Because this commenting wasn't funny and enjoyable. It was rather depressing and you really coud feel on how heavy tilt you went.
he specifically said he doesn't like wasting time, your "omg play toss terran team matches cater to viewers" is wasting time. honestly i would turn off the stream if i saw him playing protoss/terran for a lot of people his commenting was hilarious so that is an opinion you have not a fact
So you enjoyed that stream?
I normally turn on idrA's stream to watch serious and mechanically flawless zerg play while enjoying strange techno music BUT if he promises to comment and analyze he should do that or do something funny to keep up with his promise. He did that in the beginning (the zvz was very interesting) but then he went on tilt because getting all-inned and there was no reason for that. I actually believe he even provoked it. Normally there aren't that many All-Ins and people never add him to parties. I asume all of his opponents were stream sniping. He could also do some analysis by picking a good pro match he played and commenting the replay. Everything would be better then him staying silent after the third all-in and hacking on the keyboard. Why would it be a waste of time to show people why he considers some all-ins too strong by showing them from first person?
@siggurant: I think at the moment we should completely ignore Day9's opinion ont the game and balance. I believe day9 has lost a lot of authority and knowledge about the current game. He openly admits to not having watched any current top matches and tells us constantly that he actually doesn't know about this and has no time to discuss that. He can't back up a single statement he makes and tries to argue from completely theoretical and philosophical positions that need no game knowledge at all and don't help any pro zerg who is losing possibly hundreds of dollars because he has apparently picked an inferior race and has to face problems the other races don't even think of.
Don't blame him, blame the shitty NA server. He is in the highest MMR of grandmasters, if people cheese him every game that is a problem with the game, not him. There was no "tilt", he still won. Getting mad was disgust, not fear of cheese.
On May 05 2011 06:03 starsucks wrote:I think at the moment we should completely ignore Day9's opinion ont the game and balance. I believe day9 has lost a lot of authority and knowledge about the current game. He openly admits to not having watched any current top matches and tells us constantly that he actually doesn't know about this and has no time to discuss that. He can't back up a single statement he makes and tries to argue from completely theoretical and philosophical positions that need no game knowledge at all and don't help any pro zerg who is losing possibly hundreds of dollars because he has apparently picked an inferior race and has to face problems the other races don't even think of.
Well said. Day9 is a great guy, but he's not a player nor does he watch the matches in question. When he debates someone who actually plays the game (and at a very high level), he almost always resorts to making vague philosophical points that are completely meaningless. Imagine that kind of debate happening on the debate circuit or in a courtroom -- he'd get laughed out.
You can't counter everything someone says with "well, I didn't see that replay" or "I don't think thats right because of BW (which is a different game altogether anyways)." It gets to a point where you should have some backing point beyond abstract concepts.
On May 05 2011 05:41 starsucks wrote: Man, I want my Q&A. Seriously this commenting was nerve wrecking. I rly can understand IdrA's frustration but that was just super tilt mode. He could have explained so much more and I think even if his opponents are dickheads he could say something about anticipating and stopping an All-in. For example it was insane how he stopped the double thor all-in with nothing but a handful of lings blings and 5 mutas or so. Talk about that idrA. Tell us what is in your head. I mean even if you get owned by something stupid you're fully aware that you can be back on #1 in 20 games regardless of how many games you have lost before.
If you're frustrated do something funny and comment it funnily. For example: When this guy double bunker blocked you. Don't leave but try to cheese in a crazy way, etc. Play toss or terran for one time or even play some team matches. Because this commenting wasn't funny and enjoyable. It was rather depressing and you really coud feel on how heavy tilt you went.
Go watch destinys stream if you want happy fun team game time
On May 05 2011 05:41 starsucks wrote: Man, I want my Q&A. Seriously this commenting was nerve wrecking. I rly can understand IdrA's frustration but that was just super tilt mode. He could have explained so much more and I think even if his opponents are dickheads he could say something about anticipating and stopping an All-in. For example it was insane how he stopped the double thor all-in with nothing but a handful of lings blings and 5 mutas or so. Talk about that idrA. Tell us what is in your head. I mean even if you get owned by something stupid you're fully aware that you can be back on #1 in 20 games regardless of how many games you have lost before.
If you're frustrated do something funny and comment it funnily. For example: When this guy double bunker blocked you. Don't leave but try to cheese in a crazy way, etc. Play toss or terran for one time or even play some team matches. Because this commenting wasn't funny and enjoyable. It was rather depressing and you really coud feel on how heavy tilt you went.
he specifically said he doesn't like wasting time, your "omg play toss terran team matches cater to viewers" is wasting time. honestly i would turn off the stream if i saw him playing protoss/terran for a lot of people his commenting was hilarious so that is an opinion you have not a fact
I normally turn on idrA's stream to watch serious and mechanically flawless zerg play while enjoying strange techno music BUT if he promises to comment and analyze he should do that or do something funny to keep up with his promise. He did that in the beginning (the zvz was very interesting) but then he went on tilt because getting all-inned and there was no reason for that. I actually believe he even provoked it. Normally there aren't that many All-Ins and people never add him to parties. I asume all of his opponents were stream sniping. He could also do some analysis by picking a good pro match he played and commenting the replay. Everything would be better then him staying silent after the third all-in and hacking on the keyboard. Why would it be a waste of time to show people why he considers some all-ins too strong by showing them from first person?
@siggurant: I think at the moment we should completely ignore Day9's opinion ont the game and balance. I believe day9 has lost a lot of authority and knowledge about the current game. He openly admits to not having watched any current top matches and tells us constantly that he actually doesn't know about this and has no time to discuss that. He can't back up a single statement he makes and tries to argue from completely theoretical and philosophical positions that need no game knowledge at all and don't help any pro zerg who is losing possibly hundreds of dollars because he has apparently picked an inferior race and has to face problems the other races don't even think of
.
Get the hell over it, to be honest, I don't watch Idra's stream to hear in depth analysis, I watch his stream because it's entertaining. I find him in general entertaining, a high quality zerg that often BMs... That in itself is entertaining!
On May 05 2011 05:41 starsucks wrote: Man, I want my Q&A. Seriously this commenting was nerve wrecking. I rly can understand IdrA's frustration but that was just super tilt mode. He could have explained so much more and I think even if his opponents are dickheads he could say something about anticipating and stopping an All-in. For example it was insane how he stopped the double thor all-in with nothing but a handful of lings blings and 5 mutas or so. Talk about that idrA. Tell us what is in your head. I mean even if you get owned by something stupid you're fully aware that you can be back on #1 in 20 games regardless of how many games you have lost before.
If you're frustrated do something funny and comment it funnily. For example: When this guy double bunker blocked you. Don't leave but try to cheese in a crazy way, etc. Play toss or terran for one time or even play some team matches. Because this commenting wasn't funny and enjoyable. It was rather depressing and you really coud feel on how heavy tilt you went.
he specifically said he doesn't like wasting time, your "omg play toss terran team matches cater to viewers" is wasting time. honestly i would turn off the stream if i saw him playing protoss/terran for a lot of people his commenting was hilarious so that is an opinion you have not a fact
So you enjoyed that stream?
I normally turn on idrA's stream to watch serious and mechanically flawless zerg play while enjoying strange techno music BUT if he promises to comment and analyze he should do that or do something funny to keep up with his promise. He did that in the beginning (the zvz was very interesting) but then he went on tilt because getting all-inned and there was no reason for that. I actually believe he even provoked it. Normally there aren't that many All-Ins and people never add him to parties. I asume all of his opponents were stream sniping. He could also do some analysis by picking a good pro match he played and commenting the replay. Everything would be better then him staying silent after the third all-in and hacking on the keyboard. Why would it be a waste of time to show people why he considers some all-ins too strong by showing them from first person?
@siggurant: I think at the moment we should completely ignore Day9's opinion ont the game and balance. I believe day9 has lost a lot of authority and knowledge about the current game. He openly admits to not having watched any current top matches and tells us constantly that he actually doesn't know about this and has no time to discuss that. He can't back up a single statement he makes and tries to argue from completely theoretical and philosophical positions that need no game knowledge at all and don't help any pro zerg who is losing possibly hundreds of dollars because he has apparently picked an inferior race and has to face problems the other races don't even think of.
Don't blame him, blame the shitty NA server. He is in the highest MMR of grandmasters, if people cheese him every game that is a problem with the game, not him. There was no "tilt", he still won. Getting mad was disgust, not fear of cheese.
LOL. I know it's not him and he certainly doesn't fear all-ins but feels he has no use out of defending them over and over. But how come he doesn't get all-inned that frequently when he's not commenting.
What about putting something up that is useful to all. Example:
We collect 10-20 people max in this thread who are playing at least masters and have a reasonable amount of posts in tl (so not me lol) and idrA agree's on playing a match with them. I know he is going to completely destroy every single one but in the process of steam rolling he can explain what they do wrong and give advises. I believe there will be a much smaller tendency of all-inning from both sides and it is going to be of huge profit for the community while not entirely a waste of time for idrA.
IT WOULD BE SOOO AWESOME IF IDRA DID THIS FOR HIS FANS.
On May 05 2011 03:57 Hollywise wrote: i muted him and have his playlist going xd
Why would you mute him. His comments is what makes it very good.
On May 05 2011 05:41 starsucks wrote: Man, I want my Q&A. Seriously this commenting was nerve wrecking. I rly can understand IdrA's frustration but that was just super tilt mode. He could have explained so much more and I think even if his opponents are dickheads he could say something about anticipating and stopping an All-in. For example it was insane how he stopped the double thor all-in with nothing but a handful of lings blings and 5 mutas or so. Talk about that idrA. Tell us what is in your head. I mean even if you get owned by something stupid you're fully aware that you can be back on #1 in 20 games regardless of how many games you have lost before.
If you're frustrated do something funny and comment it funnily. For example: When this guy double bunker blocked you. Don't leave but try to cheese in a crazy way, etc. Play toss or terran for one time or even play some team matches. Because this commenting wasn't funny and enjoyable. It was rather depressing and you really coud feel on how heavy tilt you went.
On May 05 2011 06:28 starsucks wrote:But how come he doesn't get all-inned that frequently when he's not commenting.
This is news to me o_o
He gets all-inned all the time when he's streaming, even when he's not commentating. It's just part of the ladder, people who can allin will find success and that success will bring them to the MMR range of IdrA, even though he and other pros have likely spent hours in customs with other excellent players working out how to defend the all-ins.
Of course he gets all-inned but this was just insane and not standard. 5 Terrans in a row doing all-ins so stupid it hurt.
He still went on heavy tilt. When it started and he commented the first match and told the background of their relationship I was fully convinced this ladder stream would become awesome and super insightful but then he lost to fenix in a stupid manner and then not later than the close pose match against baz it was completely over. He entirely stopped talking about the maps didn't comment on the tactics and just repetitively predicted all-ins and this asshole started to invite him to party. His game read against fenix was a bit off because of overconfidence and altough he talked about the possibiliy of an all-in he didn't really prepare. I wish he had started the replay and tell where he was wrong and what mistake he made that lost him the game.
On May 05 2011 07:19 starsucks wrote: Of course he gets all-inned but this was just insane and not standard. 5 Terrans in a row doing all-ins so stupid it hurt.
He still went on heavy tilt. When it started and he commented the first match and told the background of their relationship I was fully convinced this ladder stream would become awesome and super insightful but then he lost to fenix in a stupid manner and then not later than the close pose match against baz it was completely over. He entirely stopped talking about the maps didn't comment on the tactics and just repetitively predicted all-ins and this asshole started to invite him to party. His game read against fenix was a bit off because of overconfidence and altough he talked about the possibiliy of an all-in he didn't really prepare. I wish he had started the replay and tell where he was wrong and what mistake he made that lost him the game.
What did you want him to say?
"This terran will probably all-in because he is bad."
Terrans proceeds to all-in.
"Sigh... This terran will probably all-in as well."
Terran proceeds to all-in.
"........"
Terran proceeds to all-in.
The only thing IdrA could do to make it interesting is try to predict what cheese the terran was going to do this time, and he was usually correct. It would be like watching BiyByBit stream.
On May 05 2011 07:19 starsucks wrote: Of course he gets all-inned but this was just insane and not standard. 5 Terrans in a row doing all-ins so stupid it hurt.
He still went on heavy tilt. When it started and he commented the first match and told the background of their relationship I was fully convinced this ladder stream would become awesome and super insightful but then he lost to fenix in a stupid manner and then not later than the close pose match against baz it was completely over. He entirely stopped talking about the maps didn't comment on the tactics and just repetitively predicted all-ins and this asshole started to invite him to party. His game read against fenix was a bit off because of overconfidence and altough he talked about the possibiliy of an all-in he didn't really prepare. I wish he had started the replay and tell where he was wrong and what mistake he made that lost him the game.
What did you want him to say?
"This terran will probably all-in because he is bad."
Terrans proceeds to all-in.
"Sigh... This terran will probably all-in as well."
Terran proceeds to all-in.
"........"
Terran proceeds to all-in.
The only thing IdrA could do to make it interesting is try to predict what cheese the terran was going to do this time, and he was usually correct. It would be like watching BiyByBit stream.
Talking about the right composition and ratio to fend of the kind of all-in. You certainly defend mass air differently than marauder hellion (or maybe not?)
Explain why he immidately left when the second bunker got up and didn't baneling bust into double expand or go 1 base nydus/drop/muta.
On May 05 2011 07:19 starsucks wrote: Of course he gets all-inned but this was just insane and not standard. 5 Terrans in a row doing all-ins so stupid it hurt.
He still went on heavy tilt. When it started and he commented the first match and told the background of their relationship I was fully convinced this ladder stream would become awesome and super insightful but then he lost to fenix in a stupid manner and then not later than the close pose match against baz it was completely over. He entirely stopped talking about the maps didn't comment on the tactics and just repetitively predicted all-ins and this asshole started to invite him to party. His game read against fenix was a bit off because of overconfidence and altough he talked about the possibiliy of an all-in he didn't really prepare. I wish he had started the replay and tell where he was wrong and what mistake he made that lost him the game.
What did you want him to say?
"This terran will probably all-in because he is bad."
Terrans proceeds to all-in.
"Sigh... This terran will probably all-in as well."
Terran proceeds to all-in.
"........"
Terran proceeds to all-in.
The only thing IdrA could do to make it interesting is try to predict what cheese the terran was going to do this time, and he was usually correct. It would be like watching BiyByBit stream.
Talking about the right composition and ratio to fend of the kind of all-in. You certainly defend mass air differently than marauder hellion (or maybe not?)
Explain why he immidately left when the second bunker got up and didn't baneling bust into double expand or go 1 base nydus/drop/muta.
He left because: The terran had marines immediately about to enter the bunker, which a) causes him to cancel the expansion b) cause him to make units to destory the bunker, thus cutting drones
And, when a terran bunkers you in like that, not only do they have you contained well, they are free to either 1)expand 2)tech to banshees
And what is zerg gona do to kill them bunkers? If you tech to roaches, thats 150 mins for the warren, and 75 per roach, so, after a few roaches youve already spent as much as the terran did on expanding. And then, if the t notices that the roaches are gonna kill the bunkers, he can just retreat his marines away, and if hes lucky, salvage the bunkers in time.
Which means, if the terran expod off of it, he already has his 2nd base nearlu up before the zergs has started, and he's free to bunker up at the choke to negate any possible attack from the zerg.
However, if the terran had gone to banshees then hes just gonna come in and stomp him, cos idra would then need to have spent mins of extra queens/spores of 1 base
Don't tell me. I know I'm terran myself and know the advantage. But why didn't idrA tell his viewers that. He knew something like that would come and he played pool first. He simply screwed up and that's the situation where you tell your viewers what you did wrong and how you can prevent that and don't go out without saying anything like this was an absolutely unstoppable tactic.
Watch this: It's not the same level (but high masters at least) and it shows how it can go differently.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3773/idral.jpg)
