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Depending on how you want to word it, there are 2 types of fanservice. The ''moe'' cute girls doing cute stuff, like k-on!, or sexual fanservice, like the Monogatari series. The difference here is that Monogatari has actual substance behind all the fan-service, while k-on! is absolutely shallow. That's not saying that ''moe'' is inferior to true fanservice, but that's my stance on it.
I think dedicated ''moe'' shows are a waste of space, because I don't enjoy them. Dedicated ''fanservice'' shows like HSotD exist, too, but I like watching them when I don't feel like thinking. Maybe it's because it's a mix of sex and blood (fanservice and action) compared to just ''nothingness'' as I like to call moe shows. I guess in the end it's a matter of preference.
At the end of the day, people like what they like. Faulting studios for giving viewers what they want would be wrong. The result might be disappointing, but I'm not entirely hopeless on the future of anime. As you said, good shows are still created, and I think the number of '2deep4u'' and ''grimdark'' shows will increase once the initial fad of moe is over. Just look at Psycho-Pass.
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Mah, now i'm finding myself enjoying cute girl doing cute thing and nothing bad ever happens, everyone is happy shows a LOT more since start working. There is just so much shit you can take in a day.
I don't really like K-On, but stuff like Minami-ke and Lucky Star where same concept applies.
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Will watching K-on improve my anime viewing experience?
K-on! will warm you up inside!This argument is already enough when it's so cold outside~
Anyway it's not about anime x is good or anime y is bad, it's just a matter of what you take from it. I wouldn't dare call GuP or SAO cancer even if I despise these,so chill out and respect others.
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On January 11 2013 23:45 OutlaW- wrote:
Depending on how you want to word it, there are 2 types of fanservice. The ''moe'' cute girls doing cute stuff, like k-on!, or sexual fanservice, like the Monogatari series. The difference here is that Monogatari has actual substance behind all the fan-service, while k-on! is absolutely shallow. That's not saying that ''moe'' is inferior to true fanservice, but that's my stance on it.
There is absolutely NO MORE substance behind *monogatari than behind Keion. Fans like to pretend this show is intellectual or smart (You get 2 or 3 japanese folklore or kanji references but that's about it) while it's just the story of ararararagi and his harem with little to no substance in dialogs (except if you consider pantsu a deep and intelligent subject of conversation). *Monogatari is pure fan service and Otaku Pandering.
+ Show Spoiler +And I like it that way, I even read the novels
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On January 12 2013 00:21 YuiHirasawa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 23:45 OutlaW- wrote:
Depending on how you want to word it, there are 2 types of fanservice. The ''moe'' cute girls doing cute stuff, like k-on!, or sexual fanservice, like the Monogatari series. The difference here is that Monogatari has actual substance behind all the fan-service, while k-on! is absolutely shallow. That's not saying that ''moe'' is inferior to true fanservice, but that's my stance on it.
There is absolutely NO MORE substance behind *monogatari than behind Keion. Fans like to pretend this show is intellectual or smart (You get 2 or 3 japanese folklore or kanji references but that's about it) while it's just the story of ararararagi and his harem with little to no substance in dialogs (except if you consider pantsu a deep and intelligent subject of conversation). *Monogatari is pure fan service and Otaku Pandering. + Show Spoiler +And I like it that way, I even read the novels
It's not as much substance as presentation. K-On did it in the most unimaginative and boring way possible (and doing it very well).
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K-On is bad but Zero no Tsukaima is worse.
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On January 12 2013 00:44 EchOne wrote:
K-On is bad but Zero no Tsukaima is worse.
Zero no Tsukaima isn't worse than Ichigo Mashimaro though. Doesn't get worse than that. Probably the only anime that ever has made me feel sick while watching.
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W-what? What didn't you like in Ichigo Mashimaro..
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I'm sorry, but I don't think you've fully understood the series, then. Every oddity is a way to run away from the problems of daily life. Examples include Gahara-san not carrying the weight of her past (then gaining her weight back once she accepts what happened and learns how to carry it). Hanegawa's ''perfect'' personality which causes her to accumulate stress and forces everyone around her to see their own flaws whenever she's near (She's not actually perfect; she's only ''good'' because she thinks that it's the best thing to do; not because she's compassionate or kind), Kanbaru using the excuse of the Monkey to further her own goals (winning the race, wanting to remove the guy her crush dates), etc.
I'm not nearly intelligent enough (I'll be rewatching all the series soon, though) to completely understand all of it, but I'm sure there are more things that I'm missing.
I'm angry at myself right now, because I know that you're wrong but I don't have the capacity to completely convince you of that, but I stand by my opinion that it's a deep series (quite a lot, in my opinion, but this might be because I haven't watched that many shows). Even somebody like me can see the difference between it and a completely shallow show like k-on!, however.
Hopefully somebody in this thread is smarter than me.
I have a post from someone about k-on! that I think is relevant right now.
+ Show Spoiler +We hate moeshit like K-On! because it's pandering shit for fat, virgin otaku who just want anime to be a crutch for their lives, filling the role of romantic and paternal love they'll never have. It's soulless drivel that has less integrity than porn, requiring girls to be asexual children who do nothing but make squeaking noises and eat cake. And these same otaku want all anime to be like this. They want storylines, drama, action, suspense, romance (unless it's yuri), adventure, and horror to be completely expunged from anime. They don't want a single anime to be made that isn't cute girls doing cute things.
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Was that post made by Shauni?
On January 12 2013 00:55 YuiHirasawa wrote:
W-what? What didn't you like in Ichigo Mashimaro..
Perhaps that is a really bad Azumanga Daioh with disgusting amounts of fanservice put all over it. It really sickens me that someone comes up with such an idea and that people actually enjoy it. That something like that has an 8 average on MAL really shows what a fucked up world we live in.
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No, some random anon. Thinking back I should have saved more posts, there was a really good discussion going on.
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@OutlaW-
Hmm, I don't think you're wrong about the targeted demographic of moe anime, but don't forget that society doesn't care about what anime you like to tag you as an otaku. GAR anime, DEEP anime and MOE are all the same in that regard.
My favorite anime is ghost in the shell but I don't mind watching moe from time to time.
It's bad to resort to passive agressive personal attacks to "win" an argument.
Edit: OutlaW- said:
I think dedicated ''moe'' shows are a waste of space, because I don't enjoy them. Dedicated ''fanservice'' shows like HSotD exist, too, but I like watching them when I don't feel like thinking.
"It's my opinion, void moeshit is bad but blatant fanservice is okay and for a totally different class of people."
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I have not resorted to any attacks. The spoilered post was not written by me and isn't aimed at you, just a point for the discussion in general.
Reading the post again, even it itself doesn't attack people, and it's not passive aggressive. Being a virgin and an otaku are facts. The board I got it from also doesn't care for insulting people (which I personally agree with - insults are fine in my opinion. Not that I use them here, which you would know if you read my posts.)
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On January 12 2013 00:59 OutlaW- wrote:
No, some random anon. Thinking back I should have saved more posts, there was a really good discussion going on.
Chances are whoever made those remarks was a "fat, virgin otaku". Because it really takes a special kind of self hatred to despite something as inconsequential as some cute girls do cute thing anime. When normal people don't like something, they just move along and go for something else.
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On January 12 2013 01:13 OutlaW- wrote:
I have not resorted to any attacks. The spoilered post was not written by me and isn't aimed at you, just a point for the discussion in general.
Reading the post again, even it itself doesn't attack people, and it's not passive aggressive. Being a virgin and an otaku are facts. The board I got it from also doesn't care for insulting people (which I personally agree with - insults are fine in my opinion. Not that I use them here, which you would know if you read my posts.)
Its completely irrelevant. Seems like an excuse to trash peoeple who enjoy moe to me.
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It isn't like the fact that this is a subculture at best has stopped members within it to complain about specific niches within it lol. We only band together when mainstream society brings up something against the entire practice, and opinions on the internet are determined by who has more time to sit in front of a computer to complain louder, preferably in caps.
Or basically, continue the rants, its been a while since there are people here who'd actually defend moe.
On January 12 2013 01:17 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 00:59 OutlaW- wrote:
No, some random anon. Thinking back I should have saved more posts, there was a really good discussion going on. Chances are whoever made those remarks was a "fat, virgin otaku". Because it really takes a special kind of self hatred to despite something as inconsequential as some cute girls do cute thing anime. When normal people don't like something, they just move along and go for something else.
Specifically some mecha fetishist because they are the only ones with anything to lose from moe boom, poor FMP.
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It's not that I defend moe, I enjoy them from time to time though don't particularly like genre as a whole. It's just I don't get the sheer rage against something that have no affect on someone if just ignore it.
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You just raised many points for discussion. Watching anime isn't ''normal'', because it's not really accepted by society standards (in the west). Projecting is something that happens regularly on those boards, but I don't think this was necessarily a case of this. I don't know why I'm defending a person I've never met and that I know nothing about, but anime is something many people take overly seriously. I'm pretty sure he hates the people who like it much more than the shows itself. Anyway, just because he judges people who like moe doesn't mean that you have to judge him.
On January 12 2013 01:17 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 01:13 OutlaW- wrote:
I have not resorted to any attacks. The spoilered post was not written by me and isn't aimed at you, just a point for the discussion in general.
Reading the post again, even it itself doesn't attack people, and it's not passive aggressive. Being a virgin and an otaku are facts. The board I got it from also doesn't care for insulting people (which I personally agree with - insults are fine in my opinion. Not that I use them here, which you would know if you read my posts.) Its completely irrelevant. Seems like an excuse to trash peoeple who enjoy moe to me.
That's rude. I'm a very accepting person and I don't care that people enjoy moe, I simply thought it would create an interesting discussion. Again, I'm being judged, which is exactly what you're blaming the post for.
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On January 12 2013 01:21 ragz_gt wrote:
It's not that I defend moe, I enjoy them from time to time though don't particularly like genre as a whole. It's just I don't get the sheer rage against something that have no affect on someone if just ignore it.
Shrug, it is like the same kind of rage you see in movie aficionados against Hollywood produced movies. When you are invested enough in something you get to take it more personally. In my case my annoyance at moe is more about how it sells well enough that resources are put toward it and not things I'd like more, so it is either that what I like incorporates it or it finds some magical money to produce with.
Or like I said above, poor mecha fetishists.
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On January 12 2013 01:22 OutlaW- wrote:
You just raised many points for discussion. Watching anime isn't ''normal'', because it's not really accepted by society standards (in the west). Projecting is something that happens regularly on those boards, but I don't think this was necessarily a case of this. I don't know why I'm defending a person I've never met and that I know nothing about, but anime is something many people take overly seriously. I'm pretty sure he hates the people who like it much more than the shows itself. Anyway, just because he judges people who like moe doesn't mean that you have to judge him.
Eh... I'm not sure about West since I didn't grew up here. But in Japan (where this really concerns as it's business there drives the industry) EVERYONE watches anime at least til high school, simply because it's on half the channels during evening hours.
If that random guy is talking about Western world, it's meaningless because Western world have about 0 influence on anime production and trend. Otherwise he is completely off the base.
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EPT
