Movie Discussion! - Page 477

Dune is great and also isn't. I think it must be very difficult to go into it blindly, because the setting is so complex. Even the ideas in the book aren't always easily digestible because they're surrounded by alot of mysticism. For example, what does the Bene Gesserit actually do? How do other memories happen? No computers but human as replacements??? It must be very confusing without a thorough background lore brushup. You could also let it wash over you and see it as a journey where conflict happens on Arrakis and all the thing surrounding it are just phenomena of that era and try to make the best of it.
So could either be very enjoyable, or very, very confusing.
But going into it knowing how the story goes, it kinda feels rushed at times, even though he absolutely needs the 2 parts to tell the story. Part 3 might be possible with the conspiracy to kill Paul being included, although this is speculation, it is set up in the movie (why else would you randomly start including Irulan as a relevant character in the movie?)
The point is that once you understand that the story is basically a 'forced' unfolding of a prophecy, every plot advancement is just a datapoint in history, instead of a thrilling pageturner. The grossly captivating nature of Dune is because of its lore surrounding Arrakis and the great houses instead of the story, which is cool, but is basically an exposition at the point where you realize Paul is just too much to handle for every force vying for power. So the movie perhaps embraces the prophecy aspect, but that kind of makes it also feel very mechanical at times where the story just goes A->B->C->D->end and the setups for every plot beat feel underdeveloped. Perhaps Denis didn't have enough time to flesh it out like he wanted, who knows.
Some more things I'd like to say:
I like Jessica much more in this part as opposed to the first. She actually felt like a Bene Gesserit this time.
Why include Irulan? And even more confusing: why open your movie with a diary entry of hers. If she's a character for 'just Dune part one and two' you wouldn't really give her that many scenes imo. I'm a part 3 believer now (actually just read the script is being written already).
Wormriding looked kinda strange. It also seemed to go way too fast. Perspective issue?
Why the fuck, as to confuse people even more, do you throw in Lady Fenring in there, as it's not confusing enough for people already?
Why did Denis choose to portray Chani as such? My guess is if he did, tension would even be less than it already was, but it didn't feel right. Chani is supposed to be intelligent and her actions spoke against that.
Sound design: marvelous, Harkonnen announcer might be my favourite thing ever.
'Machine design' - is that a thing?: crawlers were actually some of the coolest things I've ever seen on a big screen.
Score: good shit.
Pacing: it went by so, so fast. I never felt like it was a drag and that's where Denis excelled imo. Dune is a journey, almost like an exposition on what Arrakis is (same as the first book imo) and why it is the focal point and he crafted it brilliantly.
Choreography: fight scenes didn't always land for me.
Plot beats: mechanical, but if you see it more in the light of: a visit of Arrakis and all its marvels (like a documentary almost), it makes more sense.

All in all: I loved the movie, but I'm not going to praise its 'story', because it's basically a bible being told dryly. I love it for its worldbuilding, sound and art design. Denis has a great eye for the audiovisual dimension of film and I greatly appreciate how he envisioned it.

Sorry for this unstructured post, but I don't every feel like making this into a nice layout and I hope my stream of consiousness reverberates with some of you.

Many chapters in the books also open with quotes out of Irolans diary, that was probably a nod towards that and why not include her? She is important in Messiah and as daughter of the Emperor it makes sense for her to be there. By your logic she also has no point in the books...

I don't get your Chani criticism, especially because you tought she acted stupid? Imho that was a very decent alteration from the books. She seems to be the only one outside of Paul and Jessica that actually "gets" whats happening and is rightfully frightened by the things to come. They can still mess it up in part 3 but so far I really like it.
I personally just can't take Zendaya seriously in just about any role she ever played, she allways feels misscast to me, but thats probably a "me" issue.

If any character felt pretty much pointless to me, it was Gurney Halek... In the book he brings in some more Tension with Jessica but that whole subplot was completly left out of the movie. Him showing up again is pretty much pointless.

Imho my one big criticism of the movie would be, that the impact of Paul drinking the wather of life and how it alters him/his precognition is upgraded to truely absurd levels isn't shown clearly. These points in the story felt rushed to me. I also would have liked to see more of his inner conflict, there is some like his refusal to go south, but it wasn't enough for me.
I would also have liked a bit more time in Siege Tabr, in the book its very detailed and in the Movie we barely get anything. It's destruction would also have hit harder.

Imho I liked Jessicas parts best, would have loved to have seen more of her manipulations instead of Pauls "awesome guerilla fighter montage".

Irulan:
Thinking about it more it makes a bit more sense because when else would you introduce Irulan. It's kind of a strange decision to open the second movie with Irulan, someone who has not yet been mentioned. You could've voiced her diary entries in the first part and then show her face perhaps at the start of the second part. Idk, it felt jarring to me. Just being the Emperor's daughter makes no sense to give her that much screen time, she could just be part of the delegation in Arrakis and it could've worked if Paul just mentioned she was his daughter and he'll marry her. But her being given so "much" screen time as to serve as one of the conspirators in Messiah makes sense now. It's set up that way.

Chani:
If I recall correctly, but I might be wrong, Chani always was supportive of Paul, but also cautioned him at every step of the way. She acted like a counterweight, but in the most kind way possible. Chani in the movie acted quite obstructive at times, almost aggressively so, when she saw what Paul became.


Gurney & Jessica:
Gurney did feel like a miss I agree. And I think I enjoyed Jessica the most as well.

Pacing:
Movie felt fast, but like I said: it's very clear Paul is OP in the book, you don't really get to see that here except that everything just kind of chugs along and works out. But yes, his conflict, his "trying to grasp the one snare out of many", the "Famine Times" and trying to avoid it. Im kind of paraphrasing, because I don't remember the exact wording. Siege Tabr (in the book) was great exposition for Fremen lore, I greatly enjoyed it. It could've done lingered a bit more effectively maybe, but then again, the harvester guerilla scenes (and montage) were also quite nice.

I said to a friend that the book is a political drama that has a bit of action in it. The movie is an action movie that uses politics to drive the action. They are telling the same story in very different genres. The movie is better for doing it this way.

You really need a series to work on Dune imperial politics, it takes too long in movie format to introduce all the factions and characters. So cutting half of that out of the movies make them stronger movies while telling a similar story.

The major complaint for me is basically time passed and thus cutting out his sister and kid from the movie. From a movie point of view it makes sense, each character added also adds running time.

As a side note I like this Jessica much more than the book version.

I feel the changes to the books are pretty much spot on to really show that Paul is not a freedom fighter for the Fremen, but rather just another colonizer.

The one thing missing that is distinctly there in the books is fleshing out the Fremen as a people and a culture of their own. In the movies there's literally just Chani and Stilgar who are relevant, and their culture and religion is completely glossed over (in favour of fighting scenes... in particular the very first one felt too long and unimportant). If the movie is hammering home the point that Paul is just using these people for his own selfish purposes, it seems important to establish a bond between the audience and them. That is, imho, the movie's main failure.