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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On September 30 2012 19:30 Qikz wrote: As someone who's watched nearly every episode of Doctor Who ever, I thought last night was easily in the BOTTOM 10. It was terrible. You must really hate endings too. I can't believe people are pointing out plot holes/unrealistic shit in dr who. Just think 'timey whimey' and enjoy it for what it is. | ||
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Doppelganger
488 Posts
On October 01 2012 01:23 Scarecrow wrote: You must really hate endings too. I can't believe people are pointing out plot holes/unrealistic shit in dr who. Just think 'timey whimey' and enjoy it for what it is. Well that is fine and dandy when they keep it within reason. I am willing to give a lot of things a pass but sometimes it is just so blatantly and badly over the top that it destroys my immersion and my suspension of disbelief like it did in this episode. For my part I also think this ep was badly paced mainly due to + Show Spoiler + the "foreshadowing" with the gravestone and the meaninglessness of the suicide scene. + Show Spoiler + Another problem in my opinion was that it wasn't in any way a fitting continuation of the themes in the previous episode. But that is just taste. I rather would have liked them to just leave to continue their lives. And btw. Qikz only said it was terrible in his opinion so any response falls flat cause he never said why it was terrible so you can't address his reasons and you can't negate his opinion only because it is different from yours. | ||
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Hargol
United States52 Posts
On October 01 2012 03:31 Doppelganger wrote: Well that is fine and dandy when they keep it within reason. I am willing to give a lot of things a pass but sometimes it is just so blatantly and badly over the top that it destroys my immersion and my suspension of disbelief like it did in this episode. For my part I also think this ep was badly paced mainly due to + Show Spoiler + the "foreshadowing" with the gravestone and the meaninglessness of the suicide scene. + Show Spoiler + Another problem in my opinion was that it wasn't in any way a fitting continuation of the themes in the previous episode. But that is just taste. I rather would have liked them to just leave to continue their lives. And btw. Qikz only said it was terrible in his opinion so any response falls flat cause he never said why it was terrible so you can't address his reasons and you can't negate his opinion only because it is different from yours. All my dislike of steven moffat's writing can be summed up by the bolded. I know it's just pretend but it could at least be internally consistent. | ||
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Atlas247
Canada318 Posts
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
The ending's 'explanation', however, stank of weak story telling. + Show Spoiler + One angel just happened to survive to be able to take Rory... c'mon. Felt rushed to basically have them die, reappear, and then disappear a few moments later. Good episode but that scene left a sour note afterwards. | ||
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Slipspace
United States381 Posts
I'm glad to see the Ponds off the show (not because I dislike them but because it's really time for a new companion). And the first episode of this season was awesome and the girl in that episode is the new companion I think. Other than that, this episode was poorly paced and probably deserved two episodes. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
There are confusing aspects though: 1) Howd the doctor even get to manhattan if he cant time travel there? Possible explanation is that the time errors were only in the past because Angels always threw individuals further back than 2012, but thats oddly strange and a bit ad hoc. 2) How did Amy/Rory get the book yet fail to still have the capacity to get into the tardis? What stopped them from leaving manhattan!? Possible explanation is that them leaving manhattan could cause some kind of paradox since it was already fated they would die there, yet I dont think thats very plausible: They could easily leave yet still be fated to be buried there, so there isnt necessarily a paradox. | ||
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AGsc
Canada120 Posts
1) They did need a 4th person for this episode to flow nicely, but bringing in River Song was awkward. Have the 4th be Rory's dad. Then everything progresses as it did, except instead of Amy making the sacrifice twice by + Show Spoiler + jumping and touching the angel, ambushed by the leftover angel, and Rory would have had to make the decision to touch the angel and risk it all to be with her. 2) + Show Spoiler + No need to have it be a Rose Tyler-esque 'you'd be lost forever' ending. The Doctor has visited many fixed points in time, and just because he can't undo what happened, doesn't mean he can't go back. There isn't a good explanation for the "I could never see you again" line, aside from some vague carry-over from the beginning about the temporal distortions in 1930s New York making it difficult to land the TARDIS. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + For one The entire statue of liberty being able to move across the bay and get to that one spot without being looked at by a single person, especially when there's more than likely a person watching it constantly was a pretty bad idea. Secondly the cherub angels were just completely tacked on and added nothing to the episode at all. I mean what on earth were they doing in that guys basement (I know he was a collector or something) but honestly, how did he even get them there in the first place, how didn't they get out? Finally why the hell was the angel still while behind a curtain? Also unless they have some kind of magic chains, I don't get how the thing didn't get out. Whenever you see any of them they move incredibly fast almost as if they're blinking around, but conviniently they ignored this for an incredibly stupid plot point. Another couple of problems I had were these. The angel touching Rory was bad enough, but the one getting amy made no sense. Both the Doctor and River were staring at it, why did only Amy blinking make it teleport her back in time? Also Why did her getting touched create a fixed point in time? Why couldn't they just go up to the roof and jump off again leading to them being back where the Doctor was? It literally made no sense at all. | ||
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Special Endrey
Germany1929 Posts
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Ianuus
Australia349 Posts
It's hard to believe that the same man who wrote so many feels into Silence in the Library managed to make me feel nothing this time. | ||
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Zanulf
Spain36 Posts
Moffats writing is really going down hill now, i mean really? the statue of liberty? and no one saw it in "the city that never sleeps" as the Dr. said earlier in the episode. As for plot holes goes this episode was full of them, and i know its Dr. Who and all can be explained with Timey whimey but cmon. 1) New York being dificult to reach because of all the "Time Distortion", well he did not have any trouble landing in Manhattan with martha in Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks and that was right after the wall street crash. 2) Rorys death, So we got to see rory die again in this episode and 3 times if one wasnt enough. At the begining of the episode we see the grave stone with Rorys name on it some type of foreshadowing i suppose. Knowing that the paradox was going to happen all along (no Paradox, no book) then you get to the point were the angel at the end of the episode was in fact the reason rorys name was on the gravestone at the begining, and when Amy jumps of the building with him you know both will go at the end (one wont live without the other) 3) River being in manhattan, well this is a lucky coincidence, keeping in mind she is traveling with a Time agents Vortex manipulator...so let me get this straight, the Dr. with a TARDIS can hardly land in New york but river can go there no problem with a vortex manipulator (The Dr. called this a Space Hop compared to his Ferrari in Utopia/Sound of the Drums/Last of the Timelords) OFC she had to be there tho, she had to say farewell to her parents somehow But the biggest question of all is....how on earth did the book get into the Doctors jacket? | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
On September 30 2012 19:30 Qikz wrote: As someone who's watched nearly every episode of Doctor Who ever, I thought last night was easily in the BOTTOM 10. It was terrible. I agree, it was absolutely horrid. I don't give a toss about any plotholes. It just felt corny and rushed. The whole slow motion running to the book, the part where they were falling off the building. It all just feel cheesy and weird and not convincing at all. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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aqui
Germany1023 Posts
I hope the next companion will bring the witt back and leave the woe at home. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
On October 02 2012 02:55 aqui wrote: For my taste the entire show is getting way to corny and emotional in a stupid way over the last seasons, but this was really one of the worst episodes. The writing was worse than in the worst TNG episode.. Don't they have focus groups for the writing? It didn't feel like the script was read by a second writer but rushed over a weekend with too much cocaine. I hope the next companion will bring the witt back and leave the woe at home. I've read the next companion will be the soufflez girl, she seemed pretty sharp =D | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
On October 02 2012 03:11 whatevername wrote: I hated that chicks personality. Shes hot and her acting was decent, so I'm optimistic so long as it isnt literally the same character. I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,. It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
On October 02 2012 04:48 Qikz wrote: I'm just hoping she doesn't want to get busy with the Doctor 24/7,. It ruined Rose, it ruined Martha and it ruined Amy. It's the only reason I think Donna was the best companion since the revival. How exactly did it 'ruin' them? Also, Amy got over her crush relatively early in the series and was devoted to Rory thereafter. | ||
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