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On February 16 2014 10:50 TheYango wrote:
Troll is a strong solo laner. With safe lane vs. off-lane advantage, he should handily come out ahead of Mirana, but it shouldn't be enormous.
That said, I'd argue that the most impactful thing for you to do would have been to farm, to be honest. I haven't seen the game, so this isn't 100% certain, but Nyx's solo roaming power is actually fairly unreliable pre-6 (it's much better with a 2nd support but solo smoking with Nyx is pretty questionable). You'd want to pull creeps and level faster, because when you get your level 6 as support Nyx is extremely critical. As far as impacting the lane, the only way you'd be able to really apply pressure is if Mirana blows her Leap CD haphazardly and exposes herself to a kill attempt. Otherwise, a melee support in a ranged vs. ranged lane where the enemy has an escape and won't die unless they fuck up is going to be more impactful pulling creeps. You can't exactly walk into the lane and harass her, and trying for a kill will fail unless she wasted Leap or got harassed low enough and doesn't want to use regen.
Thanks, that's helpful. That's kind of what I thought.
They had a really weak safelane with a jungle doom and we had a pretty aggressive duo off, so I thought I could roam into that rather than afk. It went okay, I did trade some of my levels, but I kept doom down and we got a couple kills on their support.
I probably should have just pulled, but I feel like we'd have been ok if troll hadn't 1v1'd his way to a lower level than their duo'd carry.
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Should a puck lose vs TA solo mid? Just had a game as Puck vs a TA (admittedly this was like my 3rd of 4th game of Puck ever so I'm not exactly good) and found it was hard to do anything vs TA's shield and damage advantage.
Should I just be trying to abuse my range advantage and whittle her shield down with autoattacks? I tried that but didn't have much success due to bottle regen and me being bad.
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What would happen if you laser someone with mkb?
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United States47024 Posts
On February 16 2014 15:13 Ryder. wrote:
Should a puck lose vs TA solo mid? Just had a game as Puck vs a TA (admittedly this was like my 3rd of 4th game of Puck ever so I'm not exactly good) and found it was hard to do anything vs TA's shield and damage advantage.
Should I just be trying to abuse my range advantage and whittle her shield down with autoattacks? I tried that but didn't have much success due to bottle regen and me being bad.
Skill dependent. A lot of it depends on how you play out level 1-2 before her Bottle and who gets runes. You want to punish her as hard has possible before her Bottle, because after Bottle, you can't stop her from farming. If she has to blow 2 Refractions and doesn't get Bottle off them, you basically just won the lane, but that's hard. Realistically the most likely outcome is that you force her to use some regen and she squeezes the Bottle out of her second Refraction. If she gets Bottle gold without having to use up a significant amount of regen, it can be hard.
On February 16 2014 15:17 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What would happen if you laser someone with mkb?
Laser's miss chance doesn't apply.
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In which situations would you go Dagon on QoP and in which situations would you build aghanims (especially since the change in 6.80)?
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if i dont need the silence from orchid i would definitely consider getting aghanims now. you dont get any mana regen but you can still blow people up with a stronger ulti and shorter cd. also the hp and mana boosts are pretty significant on a hero like qop that doesnt want to build bkb in most cases.
dagon is only when you feel like you cant lose and you want to have fun, as with most other heroes
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On February 16 2014 19:12 tauon wrote:
In which situations would you go Dagon on QoP and in which situations would you build aghanims (especially since the change in 6.80)?
there aren't many situations where you'd want to get a dagon...
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On February 16 2014 20:19 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 19:12 tauon wrote:
In which situations would you go Dagon on QoP and in which situations would you build aghanims (especially since the change in 6.80)? there aren't many situations where you'd want to get a dagon...
I don't agree with that. QoPs ulti is too long to snow ball from (unless your Mushi). If you have a strong early game then a <12 minute dagon is very strong. Without it, you're not much of a solo kill threat.
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On February 16 2014 20:49 tauon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 20:19 mizU wrote:On February 16 2014 19:12 tauon wrote:
In which situations would you go Dagon on QoP and in which situations would you build aghanims (especially since the change in 6.80)? there aren't many situations where you'd want to get a dagon... I don't agree with that. QoPs ulti is too long to snow ball from (unless your Mushi). If you have a strong early game then a <12 minute dagon is very strong. Without it, you're not much of a solo kill threat.
Also if you get first blood as Puck and enemy team is suspectible to burst getting a dagon before blink can be hilariously good. In pubs at least
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I love going dagon eblade on puck, blowing up a 1000hp support is just too much fun
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On February 16 2014 20:49 tauon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 20:19 mizU wrote:On February 16 2014 19:12 tauon wrote:
In which situations would you go Dagon on QoP and in which situations would you build aghanims (especially since the change in 6.80)? there aren't many situations where you'd want to get a dagon... I don't agree with that. QoPs ulti is too long to snow ball from (unless your Mushi). If you have a strong early game then a <12 minute dagon is very strong. Without it, you're not much of a solo kill threat.
so if you know what works for you already why even ask?
personally i would almost never get dagon or aghs as first item, maybe if i solo-kill mid 5 times before 10 minutes. Eventually aghs as second item.
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On February 16 2014 20:49 tauon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 20:19 mizU wrote:On February 16 2014 19:12 tauon wrote:
In which situations would you go Dagon on QoP and in which situations would you build aghanims (especially since the change in 6.80)? there aren't many situations where you'd want to get a dagon... I don't agree with that. QoPs ulti is too long to snow ball from (unless your Mushi). If you have a strong early game then a <12 minute dagon is very strong. Without it, you're not much of a solo kill threat.
if you only care about being a solo kill threat orchid is way better. dagon might net you kills but you have no form of regen outside of bottle, meaning your nukes arent sustainable and youll spend a lot of time going back to heal or farming lanes unable to kill anyone. dagon therefore isnt a serious item choice on qop because there are always better alternatives
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 15 2014 23:34 DV G wrote:
Since the New gold change (GPM) and the change to tower gold and new killing etc.
Does the standard timings for items still apply?
14-15 min BF AM
20 min Radiance Doom/naga/PL
19-20 min Linkens Morph/naga/weaver
Or did the changes made those earlier? Because yesterday i got midas-radiance with Naga (yes, the midas is not optimal, but i needed the levels since it was a trilane) in 20 minutes, and i dont know, i missed some creeps too and we had only 1 tower taken.
Im putting this here because it didnt get answered and i really dont know if im right or wrong.
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On February 17 2014 06:56 DV G wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 15 2014 23:34 DV G wrote:
Since the New gold change (GPM) and the change to tower gold and new killing etc.
Does the standard timings for items still apply?
14-15 min BF AM
20 min Radiance Doom/naga/PL
19-20 min Linkens Morph/naga/weaver
Or did the changes made those earlier? Because yesterday i got midas-radiance with Naga (yes, the midas is not optimal, but i needed the levels since it was a trilane) in 20 minutes, and i dont know, i missed some creeps too and we had only 1 tower taken. Im putting this here because it didnt get answered and i really dont know if im right or wrong.
I think you can in fact get those items earlier, though it still seems that the earliest anyone can get BF AM is probably still 14, though sometimes leaning on the 12 minute side.
However I have seen some impressive naga farming (rtz/ee) have their radiance by 14 minutes with some boots, so I'd say the timings probably shifted up a minute or two for normal people.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 17 2014 06:56 DV G wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 15 2014 23:34 DV G wrote:
Since the New gold change (GPM) and the change to tower gold and new killing etc.
Does the standard timings for items still apply?
14-15 min BF AM
20 min Radiance Doom/naga/PL
19-20 min Linkens Morph/naga/weaver
Or did the changes made those earlier? Because yesterday i got midas-radiance with Naga (yes, the midas is not optimal, but i needed the levels since it was a trilane) in 20 minutes, and i dont know, i missed some creeps too and we had only 1 tower taken. Im putting this here because it didnt get answered and i really dont know if im right or wrong.
14-15 BF-PT AM is standard timing if you're not touched almost. If completely untouched - 12/13.
PL isn't going for Radiance first, but if going, you can hit PT-Radiance same time as BF-PT AM.
Doom can get it in ~10/12 if untouched but it's still questionable choice.
Same with Naga, if jungle is stacked.
Stable timing for Linkens is 16-17 i guess, but if you can hit pt-linken timings on 19-20, it's decent.
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If you're completely untouched AM can finish his bfury before 10 minutes (can't remember which stream I saw somebody get this, my personal best is 10:30).
Naga radiance depends on your lane. 16-17 minutes is pretty good. Sub 20 is the goal though.
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I was testing some stuff and i know that people hate cliff prophet for various reasons, but i tested 2 or 3 times in bot games and you end up with a 6-7 minute midas, a medium 4-5 stack and a big 4-5 stack. There is no doubt in my mind that it is more efficient than getting basilus and 2 clarities and jungling with treants.
Why are people always claiming it is less efficient?
And why do people that will stay in the jungle regardless what happens in the game for 10 minutes anyways not simply cliff jungle the first couple of minutes and stacking camps at the same time?
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If you get trolls in the big camp you're hosed
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On February 17 2014 13:45 KOFgokuon wrote:
If you get trolls in the big camp you're hosed
good point, i didn't get trolls when i tried - do trolls beat lvl 1 prophet with gloves of haste?
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On February 17 2014 08:14 TyrionSC2 wrote:
If you're completely untouched AM can finish his bfury before 10 minutes (can't remember which stream I saw somebody get this, my personal best is 10:30).
Naga radiance depends on your lane. 16-17 minutes is pretty good. Sub 20 is the goal though.
This game was probably my favorite 6.78 game.
It was like the last game on that patch too  .
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=346402290&p=items
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EPT
